Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1150 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1150 Saturday, 25 October 2003 Today's Topics: lyricists King Crimson and Queen Vic Is This Normal? EASTENDERS King Crimson in St. Louis November 7th! The Universe opens wide... Eyes Wide Open But Occasionally Blinking Neighbour from Hell or Heaven ET Peter Gabriel SACD, DVD, and Bowie question The Vicar's identity Re: The Vicar's identity Crimson on East Enders. Violinists and did EG advertise for a replacement fo Peter Gabriel SACD reissues/remasters Re: Peter Gabriel SACD reissues UK Soap hears Red Eyes Wide Open DVD Re: The Vicar's identity KC on BBC shock! the DVD next KCCC Re: Who is The Vicar ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Mike Dickson (ET Newsletter distribution/subscriptions) Nadim S. Haque (ET Webmaster) Toby Howard (ET founder and Newsletter Moderator) Dan Kirkdorffer (ET Webmaster Emeritus) The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. If you'd like to donate to the upkeep of ET, please press the "Donate" button at ETWeb. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:11:04 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: lyricists I have been thinking a lot about Ade's lyrical choices as well, especially recently. I think he is a great song writer, a wonderful guitarists, and often times a great lyricist... but there are MANY questionable lines that make me cringe, that really make me dislike a song. Actually come to think of it its really just TCOL and on thats to me. like for instance I like the song Cage up until the too clever/cliche for its own good part : what in the world has happened to the world and like everyone else the line about the alien's penis ruins TCOL for me. i just try to ignore it an move on to the next lyric. I favor Richard Palmer James to any lyricist in Krim history. I don't particularly care for Sinfields lyrics, very over the top theatrical overly abstract cliche prog rock stuff. Yes, I know that there was no cliche prog rock stuff before that, but it just not something i enjoy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:09:58 +0100 From: "Richard Heath" Subject: King Crimson and Queen Vic Following the recent 'Crimson music in film and TV' thread, UK ETers with nothing better to do have been treated to a blast of 'Red' in two episodes of 'Eastenders' this week (rest of world: a popular soap opera concerning the trials and tribulations of chirpy Cockney folk). The plot concerns Gavin, the psycho neighbour of Shirley from the betting shop, who torments her by playing highly disturbing rock music at all hours. Blimey, those tritones are sending her mental! There's still the omnibus on Sunday if you missed it. Kushty. Richard Heath ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:07:05 -0700 From: Christopher Anderson Subject: Is This Normal? Back on March 5th of this year I purchased "The Power To Believe". Went home and made a 90 minute cassette for my little car. That cassette has been the only thing I have played in my car since. Is this normal? I am 50 years of age, work in sales and have been a big fan for five years now. The music helps me shift gears better than ever! After attending the (March 25th) Portland Oregon show, my world changed forever. Does anybody realize when "Dangerous Curves" launches, Pat is scraping the edge of a cymbal with a steel rod? It was my second King Crimson show (the other was with Tool here in Eugene). Now that cassette is still in the deck, and my driving is improving everyday. When Ade's guitar sings arabic, I receive many stares. Bravo, to King Crimson the finest group in the world today. Chris J. Anderson Eugene, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:18:39 +0100 From: "Neil M Waters" Subject: EASTENDERS HI THERE, A BIT OF NEWS YOU WON'T KNOW ABOUT IN THE UK THERE IS A SOAP DRAMA CALLED EASTENDERS AND IN A SCENE RED WAS PLAYED IN AN UPSTAIRS FLAT TO PISS OFF THE DOWNSTAIRS NEIBOUR. IT WOULDN'T HAVE UPSET ME I CAN TELL YOU. CHEERS NEIL WATERS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:41:26 -0500 From: Paul MacFarlane Subject: King Crimson in St. Louis November 7th! The Universe opens wide... I had almost given up on these amazing lads coming here this time. (Perhaps it was The Law of Attraction and my last loving ET post about them?) At any rate, I'll be there early to meet, hug, shake hands and give space and respect to my heros: Ade the SUPREME master of clever and deep words and the most amazing play and sing something tricky master I've ever seen, let alone the king of juggling effects in one bar! Pat the sly beast of the skin and the synth pad-play off the beat, on time, before time, ignore the time, pound, rap, tap and ever-so gently caress a piece of metal Trey true MUSICian with such soul and taste in those deafening suboctaves as well as the full pallete of sounds he calls up with those gifted fingers and feet whether a dark, insense-laden synth patch or a MIDI'd t s elliot. Oh, and Mr. Fripp, well, Bennett-inspired, tantric journeyman, avatar of the string-skipping 130 bpm ostinato, king of the scale practicers, bringer of the NST, compassionate business retooler and, yes, a lovely warm guy no matter his perceived detached stage expressions, dark strange presence and understandable aversion to the invasion of the lens flash and autograph-seeker's pen into the office of his craft. Anyone want to stand with me and take in this supreme moment from note to note to sound to sound to the rarified, utter silences at The Pageant in St. Louis? E-mail me or at least take pity on the poor soul who has to be next to me as I go into the state of supreme infinity, bathed in the sounds of KC 11/7. My band mates in the embryonic Nashid have been warned that failure to attend could be fatal to their sense of experimentation and release. We are complete. Paul MacFarlane Co-Owner/Managing Director t h e 1 0 . 0 3 e x p e r i m e n t 415 North Tenth Street 3rd floor St. Louis, Missouri USA 63101 voice: 314 621.0220 fax: 314 421.5954 my personal wireless number: 314 398.1453 www.the1101experiment.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:27:03 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Eyes Wide Open But Occasionally Blinking I just received my copy of the new Crim DVD in the mail. I immediately loaded the 2003 Japanese performance into the DVD player, dimmed the lights, and cranked it up. Then, as I watched, I took out my trusty digital camera and snapped over 200 flash photographs as I watched and listened. It was exhilerating, I tell you! Exhilerating! WHen I watch the Shepard's Bush disc, I plan to smoke. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:22:01 +0100 (BST) From: David Paterson Subject: Neighbour from Hell or Heaven I was sitting through this weeks EASTENDERS (BBC Soap Opera) bored as usual but women have strange tastes. However all of a sudden the opening of Red came on. At first I thought I had subconciously switched it off and put on CD but no it really was on the programme. Seems the story is about some guy torturing a woman with load music and things (eg killing her cat) His character is being built up as a real bad man. However it is clear he is now only trying to educate the British masses about proper music. I will now be watching this programme with avid interest. David Paterson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:54:38 EDT From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: ET The McGonigle's wrote in ET 1148. "I recently bought a used vinyl version in Philadelphia (2003) of the Young Person's Guide to King Crimson. It is the British release (on Polydor). The recording on Side B of record 2 is not as listed: Moonchild....In the Court of..... Rather, it is a series of live recordings. Jazz guitar, upright bass. Cool stuff but not what I expected. Is anyone familiar with this anomaly?" The record is a mispressing. In these cases an incorrect stamper has been used for one side of the record. They're not common because they are usually weeded out at the record company quality (!) control stage or, if they do escape to the record shops, people just return them. They can be quite collectable and if you put it on ebay you might get some sad geek paying a decent amount for it. (Shit, I mean it's totally worthless and if you send it to me I'll chuck it away for you.) It can help if you know what the music on the incorrect side is. If you check on the run off groove you will see the catalogue number of the record scratched into the vinyl and that should let you find out what the music is. Gordy. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:40:24 GMT From: "Phillip Ciskowski" Subject: Peter Gabriel SACD, DVD, and Bowie question In response to Peter Allen's post, the Peter Gabriel SACD releases are not = hybrid, and they are not multi-channel. I just purchased the entire catalo= g (again) when they were released last year, so I can't afford to shell out= for them again for what would be the fourth time in some cases. Besides, = my aging and abused ears combined with a less than audiophile sound system = cannot really distinguish the difference between a good CD remaster and SAC= D. I tried the some of the Stones releases back to back, and I could not t= ell a difference. However, the multi-channel releases like Dark Side Of Th= e Moon are really nice. The London disc of the DVD is not in 5.1 surround , so I would imagine the = KCCC will sound very much like it. So, is the KCCC an embarrassment of ric= hes, a waste of money, an expensive fetish, a necessary evil, a bounty from= heaven, or something else entirely? I think the answer is yes. I have one question that I can't seem to answer. Did Fripp ever play live = with Bowie? Phil Ciskowski ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:02:33 -0700 From: "James League" Subject: The Vicar's identity >From ET 1148: >The Vicar is of course Anthony Phillips. > >I knew this from the credits of his 'Wise After The Event' album where he >is listed as "The Vicar". This album also featured Michael Giles on drums; >and the cd issue of 'Wise' was "Specially remastered for cd by Simon >Heyworth at Chop 'Em Out" (always loved that name!) This from Anthony Phillips web site (FAQ). Seems Mr. Bauxbaum may be making an incorrect inference. "Who is Vic Stench / The Vicar? Both of them are Ant himself. The Vicar who maintains a diary at Robert Fripp's DGM site is not Ant." James ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:03:29 +0100 From: "Keith Collyer" Subject: Re: The Vicar's identity On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:58:31 -0400 Dan Buxbaum speculated: > The Vicar is of course Anthony Phillips. [snip] > Of course, the final proof came from The Vicar's journals: [snip] > of himself as a musician. In fact, he famously left the first band he was > in, saying that having two non musicians (him and the singer) in the same > band was too much of a liability. But he has perfect taste, and an uncanny > knack of finding the perfect performance." Famously said by Brian Eno when he left Roxy Music. Does that get us any closer... Cheers KeithC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:10:03 +0100 From: "Stephen King" Subject: Crimson on East Enders. Violinists and did EG advertise for a replacement for David Cross? Recently, the UK soap East Enders has featured "Red" at least twice - don't know what the plot was as I don't watch the programme myself, just overheard it whilst my wife was watching it in the other room! Just before Red was released, I seem to recall an advert in NME for a "violinist and percussionist (not drummer) to join a well known band". Does anyone else remember this - was it EG trying to recruit new members for Crimson? Despite Fripp going on about the impossible position of a violinist trying to compete with the Bruford/Wetton rhythm section and Fripp himself, it seem that they did offer the job to Wilf Gibson from ELO. For my money Darryl Way would have been a good choice. There is a connection already between Crimson and Darryl Way as Ian McDonald produced the first Wolf album. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:41:32 -0400 From: "Gary Beck" Subject: Peter Gabriel SACD reissues/remasters The new Gabriel SACD's sound great. I have not heard the last "remasters" on standard CD, so I can't give you an objective point of view on that. Obviously they are about a 1000% improvement over the older versions of CD's. I have never heard these records sounding so good, IMO. I own Car, Security, and Melting Face. They are not hybrid, so you may want to research and A/B the SACD's with the new CDs before buying them if you were hoping to be able to play these session on your regular CD player. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:08:41 -0400 From: Abhi Taranath Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel SACD reissues I haven't had a chance to hear the Gabriel SACDs yet, but they are all single layer (not compatible with standard CD players) with the exception of "Up", a hybrid disc. I'm still waiting for the incomparable James Guthrie to start his magic on preparing hybrid SACD versions of Wish You Were Here, Animals, & The Wall. :) Cheers, Abhi http://www.thenodd.com Peter Allen wrote: > Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:39:49 +1000 > From: Peter Allen > Subject: Peter Gabriel SACD reissues/remasters > > Just noticed at my local that many Peter Gabriel recordings have been > re-released as SACDs (I can't remember if they were hybrid, but I would > guess they were). > > One of the ones I saw was PG II ("Scratch") in stereo, so I would guess PG > I ("Car") is out there too. > > I would be interested if anyone has had a chance to compare the quality of > these new SACD issues with the older CDs, or has links to reviews. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Allen (pda at melbpc dot org dot au) > Melbourne PC User Group ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:07:48 +0100 From: "Brian Champion" Subject: UK Soap hears Red No, my ears were not decieving me, my little luvvie was watching UK soap Eastenders last Thursday when I was sure I heard the dulcit strains of Red emanating from the speakers. The plot line apparently involves a woman driven to distraction by a noisy neighbour, who, to rub salt in the wound when she is showing a prospective purchaser around her home whacks KC on at full volume, sure to cheer everyone up! Snail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:19:25 -0700 From: "Peter Lewis" Subject: Eyes Wide Open DVD Thanks to the DGM for releasing "Eyes Wide Open", Great shows. The two shows make a great pair. The 2003 show was tight and somewhat more restrained. The 2001 show was loose and more spontanious in (in feel at least) Perhaps being the end of the tour and in London, the band seemed to be having a great time which I felt also came out in the music. The quality of the sound recording was top notch on both disks, but the video quality was far supperior on the fist disk (the 2003 show). That said, I can definitely see why the band wanted to include the 2000 show in the package as the night seemed to capture a joy for their music and playing together that you just can't get everynight you have a gig scheduled - when it happens its unmistakeable to everyone there - audience and performer alike. Kudos having been shared, I would love to see the band take advantage of the current technology available. Specifically progressive scan DVDs formated for wide screen TV (a format particulary condusive to the horizontal nature of the stage)and 5.1 or DTS audio. Done well the 5.1 audio format can really transport the viewer into the audio environmnent of the original show or even better, the audio environmet for the best seat in the house with the displeasing artifacts removed. This doesn't have to be garish and over-produced. Bill Brewford's last Earthworks DVD used the 5.1 audio format with impecable taste and it really took the Video that much closer to the feel of actually being experienced live. thanks again to DGM and the band, Keep the videos comming! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 18:20:17 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: The Vicar's identity At 09:36 PM 10/17/03 GMT, Dan Buxbaum hypothesizes: > >The Vicar is of course Anthony Phillips. >Of course, the final proof came from The Vicar's journals: > >"Are you interested in The Vicar's production techniques? Probably I >suppose. It's the sort of trainspotter information that people like to see >in books. So let's start by getting one thing straight. He does not think >of himself as a musician. In fact, he famously left the first band he was >in, saying that having two non musicians (him and the singer) in the same >band was too much of a liability. But he has perfect taste, and an uncanny >knack of finding the perfect performance." > >Of course, he sells himself (self-deprecatingly) short; he is a fine >musician as is the "singer" referred to above. (unless I am wrong about >all this!) Actually that quote from the Vicar's journal doesn't put me in mind of Anthony Phillips. His reason for leaving Genesis was because he had developed an overwhelming case of stage fright and simply was no longer able to participate in live performances. Rather this quote seems to point more towards Brian Eno and his departure from Roxy Music. Brian Eno frequently referred to himself as a non-musician. Plus he is a major producer and therefore many people would be interested in his production techniques. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 877-856-1158, 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 INDEPENDENT PROGRESSIVE MUSIC!!! ************************************************************** Artist Shop Radio Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:32:57 +0100 From: "Peter Bryant" Subject: KC on BBC shock! I was in the pub Thursday and suddenly out of the TV behind me came the opening of Red! It was Eastenders and the music was from the "noisy one upstairs". Got at least 45 seconds of it. Boy was I surprised. Just had to share really did not stop smiling for at least an hour... Peter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:20:48 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: the DVD Regarding the Eyes Wide Open DVD- I rushed to my door as soon as the mail came (like every day since i had ordered it) and when it finally came i couldnt have been more extatic. I for one LOVE this dvd. Its much easier to control than the last one, and it also has interactive features like the 21st CSBand option on the last one. Both shows are supremely excellent. I wasnt aware You get to see the way some songs changed between the years. not to mention they just kick major ass. My complaint is towards the london concert filmed by Bootleg TV... why is the quality so awful? the 2003 show is superb quality, the second show is grainy and blurry. whats the deal? My favorite thing is the long list of Improvs available, and apparently the disc changes the improvs each time you play the concert, replacing one for another to make each play different like each show... that was when the band actually improvised live. where did those days go? notice no improvs on the 2003 show. sad Now.. when are we going to get the dvd of the 2 live videos from the 80s?? im dying for these. I'm also very curious, like eveyrone else, whether or not there is usable live footage from the 70s. There is of every other band... Led Zeppelin, they just put out the Pink Floyd Live in Pompeii DVD which is excellent, and they made a best of the Old Grey Whistle Test or whatever that BBC show is called with Stellar performances from amazing bands from the 60s-the late 80s.. why nothing like that for King Crimson?? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:22:53 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: next KCCC is everyone as excited as i am about the new improv on the new live KCCC disc from 72? I will buy anything from the LTIA-RED era live.. one queston though- when is it coming out?? why dont they have specific release days, only an opt out date. I do think they say its due out by the end of november, or maybe october.. if so soon why no date? just curious is all... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:04:35 +0100 From: Steve Moore Subject: Re: Who is The Vicar When Brian Eno left Roxy he quoted one of his reasons as having two non musicians (him and the singer) in the same band was too much of a liability... Is Eno The Vicar? > Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 11:58:31 -0400 > From: Dan Buxbaum > Subject: The Vicar's identity > The Vicar is of course Anthony Phillips. > > Of course, the final proof came from The Vicar's journals: "Are you interested in The Vicar's production techniques? Probably I suppose. It's the sort of trainspotter information that people like to see in books. So let's start by getting one thing straight. He does not think of himself as a musician. In fact, he famously left the first band he was in, saying that having two non musicians (him and the singer) in the same band was too much of a liability. But he has perfect taste, and an uncanny knack of finding the perfect performance." ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1150 *********************************