Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1145 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1145 Friday, 19 September 2003 Today's Topics: Re: KC and The Beatles King Crimson Remix Lizard's Happy Family & the Beatles Re: What is it with this band? KC / PF in The Beano KC remixed King Crimson - Beatles links Lizard and the Beatles Saddam Hussein playing the Chapman Stick What is it with this people? SBB live? Re: Bob Culbertson "Let us find, clean and cheer full friends" Beatle influence on Fripp? Final words and thanks on Fripp/Belew Identification and the NST Normalized Touring the UK Mellotron on Thrak Awesome avant/prog/whatever/good music show on 8/1 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:08:22 -0500 From: "Mike Champagne" Subject: Re: KC and The Beatles > . . . I am pretty sure Tony Levin did some work with John and Yoko in >New York in 1980, most notably on the stunning 'Walking On Thin Ice' but >perhaps some kind poster can confirm this or correct me Tony was the sole bassist, to the best of my knowledge on the whole of the sessions that begat the 'Double Fantasy' LP, and contributed greatly to the subsequent quasi-finished 'Milk and Honey', as well as playing on most of Yoko's 'Season of Glass' LP, recorded in the early months of 1981. Hmmmm . . . this would have been practically immediately before he became one fourth of 'Discipline' . . . never realized that. As for the original question (i.e. what did the Beatles - collectively, individually, or otherwise - think of KC), I can offer the following: Vic Garbarini, himself a music journalist spoken well of by RF on occasion (I believe), interviewed Paul McCartney for 'MUSICIAN: Player & Listener' magazine in 1980. Although not intended for public release when recorded, the tapes of this interview were ultimately released on vinyl. IIRC, Garbarini explicitly mentioned both Fripp and Eno (in separate instances) in the course of the interview, at least once in the course of making references to McCartney's 'one man band' LP of a few years earlier "McCartney II", among other things. And both times, IIRC, McCartney may as well not have heard the names mentioned, as he answered the questions posed without ever acknowledging that the names had been mentioned. I guess I should dig out my copy and listen to it but it's late and so my memory will have to do! But I recall it sounding as though Garbarini was sincerely trying to get McCartney to comment on Fripp and Eno and McCartney just seemed to steer clear of it on both occasions (like a well-seasoned politician). Who knows (or cares) what this means, but there you go. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:08:15 +0200 From: msimons9 at tiscali dot nl Subject: King Crimson Remix Nick Ciraulo wrote: "Can King Crimson and/or Robert Fripp music be mixed into, say, a dancable 79:45 CD?" Maybe King Crimson should start a remix contest like Marillion has done, making the master recordings (the individual tracks) available for remix purposes. I have been working on a remix of the Marillion song 'When I Meet God' and it has been an interesting experience (it is my first real attempt at making a remix), but most of all a lot of fun. Regards, Michel. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:44:12 -0400 From: "m. k. smith" Subject: Lizard's Happy Family & the Beatles Regarding Tim's remarks concerning the Beatles in the last E-T : Not only is there an illustration of the Beatles on the cover surrounding the letter "I" in Crimson, the various illustrations correspond to the lyrical content of the songs, and in the case of this one, directly to Happy Family. Virtually every line of the song is about the dissolution of the Beatles, and each of them have aliases. (For those of you who want to analyze this, it is definitely easier to see on the LP of course.) I imagine Sinfield designed this parallelism with the painter, Gini Barris. The "Happy" Family is sarcasm for the discontent Beatles. There are four characters in the song: Rufus, aka - Ringo; Silas, aka - George; Jonah, aka - John; and Judas, aka - Paul. In the opening, "...four went by and none came back" They spilt up and were no longer, and perhaps lost themselves in the hype. "We'll blow our own canoes", and "punctured all the ballyhoo." They'll be doing their own thing , and deflate the madness of Beatlemania."Whipped the world and beat the clock" Became popular and set world wide records in just a few years "...wound up w/ their share of stock"& "Silver Rolls from golden rock..." Got filthy rich. "Cried put we're not Rin Tin Tin" We're not a trained dog. "Uncle Rufus grew his nose, threw away his circus clothes" He has clown pants on in the picture, no shirt. Quit lying to himself (long nose), being a fool, and wised up? "Cousin Silas grew a beard, drew another flask of weird" Harrison in the picture in a lotus drinking from a flask, relates to his spiritual enlightenment, and consuming psychedelics. "Nasty Jonah grew a wife, Judas drew his pruning knife." In the picture John is holding a flower pot with Yoko's head growing out of it, and Paul is drawing a knife from his belt. Describes the conflict between John and Paul over Yoko, including John dragging her to sessions. "Silas searching, Rufus neat, Jonah caustic, Jude so sweet" Is all pretty apparent, including Paul's future predilection for silly love songs. There is even a tiny Yellow Submarine, off the dock that they are on, in the picture. If one wants to analyze the cover and lyrics further, you can find many details in Cirkus and Indoor Games in the illustrations. I had a modest epiphany when I realized this a little stoned 29 years ago. Obviously Happy Family is paying homage to the Fab Four. Matthew K. Smith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:09:17 -0500 From: Paul Hubers Subject: Re: What is it with this band? >I heard that one of guitarists does not like to be seen playing in it. When you're this good you can do what you like and that includes not playing by the "rules". I wouldn't want it any other way. Just enjoy the magic -Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:30:37 +0100 From: "Keith Collyer" Subject: KC / PF in The Beano Of all the sightings of the hallowed names of King Crimson and Pink Floyd recently, this has to be one of the weirdest. My son came (nine, his age, not his name) running up to me with his latest copy of The Beano [1]. The Roger the Dodger cartoon started with a frame showing Roger's mum throwing a load of LPs in the dustbin, saying (I quote from memory) "Time to get rid of these old LPs of Dad's. King Crimson and Pink Floyd indeed." Of course, he knows (and, to some extent, shares) my enthusiasms for the greatest bands this planet has ever produced, so this was very funny for him. [1] for those of you not blessed, this is a children's comic that has been running for ever in the UK (I seem to remember a sixtieth anniversary a few years ago), though, of course, it isn't as good as when I were a lad Cheers KeithC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:58:16 EDT From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: KC remixed IN ET 1144 Nick Ciraulo suggests a Crimson remix cd. I also suggested this a couple of months ago as a possible official final KC album if they actually did decide to call it a day. I'm not sure that there would be much point in a 'four to the floor' mix though. It'll never get played in clubs because they never do. My house is full of dodgy remixes of guitar tunes that record companies have commissioned in the hopes they'll get played in dance clubs. Never happens. However this is not to say that there can't be a great set of remixes. There are loads of artists whose music is at least as 'difficult' as Krimson's but have been well served by remixers. The best I think was the Bill Laswell remix of MIles Davis which was awesome. I also have remixes and reconstructions of music from Gong and Can who, musically, are in a similar place to KC. Another one which I picked up recently and would recommend highly is an album called "Grayfolded". This is a 2 CD reconstruction of the Grateful Dead's song "Darkstar" using samples from live performances between 1968 and 1992. This was constructed by a guy called John Oswald who is responsible for 'plunderphonics' by which, basically, different songs are cut and spliced together. The more hip ones amongst you might be familiar with the similar bootlegging trend (where vocals from one song are put onto the music from another track) as on the Soulwax '2 many djs' mix. Devotees of "I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue" will of course be familar with the item 'one song to the tune of another', but I digress. There is also a Yes remix cd out which was put together by Steve Howe's son. ("Pssst...hey son. Remember to put the my guitar right at the front of the mix and those horrid squeaky vocals as far back as possible"). I haven't heard it though I understand it is quite good (or at least not as bad as you might have thought it would be). There are already at least 2 remixes of KVC tunes around. A truly hideous 12" remix of "Heartbeat" and the one of Scizoid Man on that cd single from a couple of years back. Oh, 3 if you include the version of 'Starless' by Craig Armstrong. Gordy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:07:26 +0000 From: "mike mclaughlin" Subject: King Crimson - Beatles links Hi All! I dunno whether this has been mentioned as a link between the fab four and the Crims but Greg Lake was the bassist in a (relatively) recent line up of Ringo Starr's all star band. Oh well back to lurking! Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:24:19 -0700 From: "WAYNE KLEIN" Subject: Lizard and the Beatles >From Matt: >Regarding Tim's remarks concerning the Beatles in the last E-T : Not only >is there an illustration of the Beatles on the cover surrounding the >letter "I" in Crimson, the various illustrations correspond to the lyrical >content of the songs, and in the case of this one, directly to Happy >Family. Virtually every line of the song is about the dissolution of the >Beatles, and each of them have aliases. (For those of you who want to >analyze this, it is definitely easier to see on the LP of course.) Accurate observation about Lizard and the song Happy Family. I don't know that it's the most distinguished lyric (or the best music) Sinfield wrote but its obviously heartfelt. Lizard is an underrated KC album overall. It's flaws have contributed to it being overlooked (much like Islands) by many KC fans. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:04:49 +1000 From: "Warwick Holt" Subject: Saddam Hussein playing the Chapman Stick For those asking about other Chapman Stick players, it appears that none other than Saddam Hussein is playing it in the video clip to the New Horizons In Violence song "The World's Worst Leaders". Have a look at http://clintflicks.com/nhiv/video/wwl for the video or http://clintflicks.com/nhiv/audio for a few more war-on-terror related tunes featuring prominent and skilled Sticking. Thanks Wok ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:55:24 -0700 From: "Pablo Velasco L." Subject: What is it with this people? What is it with this people? I was amazed by private mail received from people who apparently thought my previous post on ET was offensive (What is it with this band? ET#1143). I was joking. Maybe I was not funny although I tried. I did not expected to be insulted. Anyway, risking being taught of new insults in English - learning is good and my English limited - I will follow up... stressing it even more. Of course I know the true name of the guitarist is Norbert. I will not give you the true name of the band but the true name of the other components are Keith, Greg and Carl. You could have known by reading the articles of those wise and well informed rock music reviewers who immediately saw the similarities. As for the other pseudonyms, I am still clueless and who insulted me might be right. God bless you all. Jossette where are you? The Ent (for the last time) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:35:15 +0100 From: "Manek Dubash" Subject: SBB live? Hi all Does anyone know if KC EVR played (and recorded the strack Starless & Bible Black live? I don't think they did or ever have/will do. Please prove me wrong. Manek ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:53:10 -0400 From: "brad" Subject: Re: Bob Culbertson Vince posted about Bob Culbertson, a great stick player who plays in a very melodic style. I recommend "The Touch" and especially, "A Moment in Time," which mixes Celtic and Spanish classical sounds. His website indicates his latest CD, "Acoustick Dawn," is "the first CD ever recorded on an acoustic stick." Sounds interesting. Brad ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:55:47 -0600 From: "David Bartolf" Subject: "Let us find, clean and cheer full friends" ....de-lurking. ...placing tongue into the "in cheek" position. firing troll #1... In ET #1143, "David" wrote: > I was over at www.disciplineglobalmobile.com just now and saw this > aphorism: "Let us find clean and cheerful friends". I wonder what > experience prompted this one? :-) To break the boredom, may I humbly suggest a fun game, editing aphorisms, for example: "Let us find, clean and cheer full friends." firing troll #2... If KC is touring this fall, and the Bears are touring this fall, could we connect the dots to figure out a possible opening act for KC (or co-headliner as was done with JPJ)? It would make for full evenings for Ade fans. turning up the audio... ... np: thomas handy trio: thomas handy trio. ...returning tongue to "wag" position. ...resuming lurk mode... duct-taping on sig line... ...if it is stupid and works, it's not stupid. ...resuming lurk mode. ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:01:02 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Beatle influence on Fripp? >Fripp has referenced the Beatles often. He admired the depth of the >Beatles recordings (i.e., you can listen to them over and over and still >hear new things), and has tried to bring that depth to KC. Again, I'm >paraphrasing greatly, the Tamm book has some good info about that. Fripp has told the story of hearing A Day In The Life for the first time and being totally sent by it, and that powerful experience stayed with him as an influence on the first few King Crimson albums. - S. np: Cowboys 20 Giants 7?? scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:37:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Rikard Grankvist Subject: Final words and thanks on Fripp/Belew Identification and the NST Thanks, everybody who's helped. Now I feel as confident in identifying them as you do, Antonio. And on the tunings: I'm a guitarist yes, and I've hooked up one of my guitars with the NST, and it's interesting yes, and in a way it makes more sense than old standard, but even though chords are easier and typical Fripp playing alike, small moves are generally harder. But it also depends alot on what type of guitar player you are. If you're acustomed to quite big stretches and changing position alot, the NST is for you. It relies on the player to use alot of single string-techniques when it comes to small playing(licks and riffs using small intervals). Typically, you would want each position to cover about 5 or even 6 frets, instead of the usual 4. This is best acquired by stretching your fingers a little more so you can have the pinky reach the fifth and sixth frets(counted from the position's first fret). Another way is to simply use 4 fret positions, but change them all the time. This is probably how Fripp usually plays, since he has developed an extremely light and pre! cise fingering. This fingering should of course be the goal of every guitar player, but is harder than you think. Volume Pedals: Personally, I use volume pedals alot, and definately need one when I play the Dinosaur solo. I don't care getting into too much details, but for the sliding passages I need one, mostly to limit noise in between playing(something that Fripp's applification solutions might eliminate), and in the chromatic descending line that is followed by a high-pitched sustained note, that last note is faded in with a volume pedal. Too much details? Well, now I'm enlightened on the issue. Thanks /R ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:59:55 +0200 From: "Michael Peters" Subject: Normalized Andre LaFosse continues his groundbreaking guitar work on his brand new second solo album, 'Normalized'. Like no other artist that I know of, he explores the far reaches of what can be done with an electric guitar and the new Echoplex software. The Echoplex is a truly 'deep' box - it's a wonderful and indispensable tool for live looping musicians, but beneath that seemingly simple looping functionality, there is an uncharted territory of more experimental musical possibilities many of which don't even have a name yet. Andre is one of the very few musicians who have gone there and came back with treasures ... he turns his axe into something he calls 'turntablist' guitar ... maybe one could also call his music 'pointillist' ... Burroughs's cut-up techniques come to mind, and I also had to think of Edward scissor hands ... remember that guy with scissor hands, creating incredible sculptures in seconds? Andre's sound sculptures are a bit like that, they suddenly evolve out of thin air, fragile cut-up loop fragments that one would expect to go haywire suddenly start to groove and rock and mutate in many surprising ways. I've spent some time with electric guitar and Echoplex myself, but still, Andre seems like a wizard to me and often enough, I have no idea how he does what he does. And then he's a wonderful guitarist of course - firmly rooted in rock'n roll but going way beyond that, with traditional Indian and Arabian music speaking in his phrasing and expressivity. So, if you need some avantgarde party music, or if you're looking for a truly adventurous and rewarding listening experience, buy this album, now, at http://www.altruistmusic.com/cd -------- Michael Peters ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:22:48 +0100 From: terry dot capewell at aonconsulting dot co dot uk Subject: Touring the UK Are KC going to tour the UK or not?? There are a lot of old fans who have re discovered KC through there excellent new album '...Power to...' and I am one of them. Having now got 'Construktion...' & 'Thrak' I am amazed at the brutality of the compositions....'ConstrucKtion..' must be the ultimate anger album. Anyway Messrs Frip & Co...get your arses over here particulary up North near Teesside/Newcastle. terry capewell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:21:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Aaron G. Moulin" Subject: Mellotron on Thrak I think there's also some Mellotron on "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream" -- Aaron Moulin Biochemistry Dept. MS 009 Brandeis Univ. P.O. Box 9110 Waltham MA 02454 "But what do the heads do?" --Chris Miller Ph.D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:50:56 -0500 From: Colin J Marston Subject: Awesome avant/prog/whatever/good music show on 8/1 BEHOLD... THE ARCTOPUS - beholdthearctopus.com (mp3s!) (w/ warr guitar -- "Its only a few minutes, but it leaves you slack-jawed: there are so many things happening which other bands couldnt even cram into an album of 70 minutes." - Edge of Time ) DYSRHYTHMIA - dysrhythmiaband.com (Relapse - intricate, energetic, punkmetalrockambientcorecrorecorecore) CHEER ACCIDENT - cheer-accident.com (ledgendary avant wackos!) IN PETTO - allinpetto.com (aprox. 1395873291872410 instruments) Wednesday October 1 (10-01-03) @ The Knitting Factory (Tap Bar) 74 Leonard St. New York, NY 10013 212-219-3006 8pm, $7, all ages! thanks for reading, colin marston __________________ BEHOLD... THE ARCTOPUS - beholdthearctopus.com INFIDEL? / CASTRO! - infidelcastro.com ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1145 *********************************