Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1144 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1144 Sunday, 14 September 2003 Today's Topics: Acoustick Re: Can it be mixed? KC Media Watch - Lizard sighting Re: What is it with this band? Re: Elephant Talk #1143 Subject: Fripp/Belew Identification my initial red nightmare Crimson as Weather Report Music Re: Mellotron on Thrak Crimson as TV music Re: Beatles Re: The Longest Day CD + New FraKctured Competition King Crimson in movies or TV KC and The Beatles Jobson on USA; not something to be ashamed of KC's Co-Headliner/s? Re: Mellotron on Thrak and a bit more on Fripp/Belew identification Re: fripp/belew identification Re: belew tunings Eyes Wide Open DVD Acoustick ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:13:13 GMT From: vedan at juno dot com Subject: Acoustick Greetings all, In regard to several mentions of stick players of late, my wife met a stickman, Bob Culbertson at the Yellow Daisy Festival here in Atlanta. He plays an acoustic stick designed by himself and built by Emmett Chapman and Craig Anderson. She bought his most recent cd. It includes covers of Steve Howe's Mood For A Day, Albinez's Leyenda, Hendrix's Little Wing and several originals. Finally she bought me music that I like. It is well played and recorded. Check out his website at www.stickmusic.com to get some info and hear samples. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:06:00 EDT From: NCir213855 at aol dot com Subject: Re: Can it be mixed? It's as good a time to ask................ Can King Crimson and/or Robert Fripp music be mixed into, say, a dancable 79:45 CD? Who would want to do it? DJ Spooky? The two discotronic pieces made years ago was a start, but nothing really developed from it. (Frippertronics over a rhytmn section, remember?) I think the odd meters can be superimposed on a strong 4/4 beat, or would it be the other way around? No matter. Some enterprising individual can come up with something new any different. (Danny Teneglia?) 'nuff said. I'll probably get some ridicule for this idea. Thoughtfully yours------------Nick Ciraulo (Check out Stream 62 on Sirius radio) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:40:06 +0100 From: Mr Tea Subject: KC Media Watch - Lizard sighting King Crimson? On Radio 4??? (for non-UK readers, Radio 4 is a British general interest station that runs drama, comedy, current affairs, magazine and documentary programmes). The Missus listens to Radio 4 while driving, so I catch snatches of it now and then - like on Monday evening (Sept 8th) when I was putting the car in the garage for the night. Just after 9pm, a new season of the documentary series 'Nature' kicked off with a feature on snakes that was accompanied by a hauntingly familiar theme. I thought it was maybe Faure at first, then twigged that it was good ol' Bob and the boys with the intro to 'The Battle of Glass Tears' off side 2 of Lizard (that's track 5, about 11.05 minutes in, for you johnny-come-latelys who only know the album on CD). Wrong reptile, but hats off to the member of the production team responsible for this particular selection. It would be nice to think that an informed moment of inspiration led to this choice, but did it? The BBC almost certainly has a database with all the tracks in its vast music library listed by name, artist, etc. The lackey responsible for digging up some atmospheric background music probably tried a search with the word 'snake' and found that all the tracks it brought up were either heavy metal thrashes or overtly sexual in theme. So he/she tried 'lizard' instead, and bingo! So, is there a KC savant beavering away in the bowels of the BBC's radio documentary unit, or was it just a lucky stab in the dark? I think we should be told. Nick pp Mr Tea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:15:24 -0500 From: Jeff Evans Subject: Re: What is it with this band? I do not intend to sound antagonistic, but it seems pretty simple to me. RF wishes to reduce his celebrity, and the distractions celebrity creates, so that he can best do what he must - discover music (and hopefully for most of us, eventually document it) and enjoy a normal/peaceful life. And yes, "discover" is perhaps a poor choice of word. RF seems to know where the music is as well as anyone. I gather he just wishes he'd be allowed to travel there. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:30:16 -0300 From: Andre Sachs Subject: Re: Elephant Talk #1143 Subject: Fripp/Belew Identification Does Belew use any altered tunings? I certainly know of one that ABE himself shows in the Eletronic Guitarist video... He raises the G string (no puns!) to A I think he uses it in "Dig Me" (Discipline) along with the wammy bar... Andre ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:48:57 -0400 From: "m. k. smith" Subject: my initial red nightmare An E-T reader e-mailed me regarding the May 1st, 1974 show and I shared this story w/ him, so I decided to send it to E-T as well. ...I went thru a real pain in the neck to see it: My friends and I went to a show on April 27th, 1974 at the Auditorium Theater in Rochester; we had seats in the 7th row in the middle. Trower played, and when I was coming back from the john before Crimson, I see Robert on stage explaining they could not play, because the power system was faulty, and they didn't have enuf juice to run the mellotrons or something. It was canceled. We were bemusedly fraKctured to say the least. I asked a roady packing up Bruford's drum set where they were going to be next, and it was The Felt Forum, NYC (350 miles from Roch). I was a senior in high school and of course my folks emphatically forbade me to go. My girlfriend's father had a secretary friend of his in NY get us some tickets. So the three of us snuck out of our parents house at 5:00 am and took a bus to NYC. It took forever to find the building the secretary worked in, but we secured the tickets just before she was to leave. Before the show we went into the the 50 story Nelson Tower across from the Empire State Building, surreptitously entered and climbed up the maintenance stairs, and went out on the roof to prime our respective pumps for the show... and royally lost track of time: the building closed underneath us. When we came out of the maintenance stairs, on about the 40th floor to take the elevator the rest of the way down, a security guard stopped and accosted us and asked what the the hell we were doing. "Looking for a men's room," I sputtered. He took us to the ground floor and put us in a men's room, and held us a while trying to decide what to do w/ our sorry asses. Eventually they decied to let us go. So we almost missed it a second time. We got there during Trower's first song. This initial indoctrination to K.C. was like dying and going to The Fields of Elysium. (Naturally I was grounded for a few weeks, but it was certainly worth it. I sat around a lot listening to S&BB, w/ a leer on my face.) I thank my lucky and unlucky stars, because the group split-up four months later just as we were trying to secure tickets for the Red tour. It actually got that far in the making. I was pissed off for years, and felt like Robert was giving all us loyal Crims the finger. Which he was! I think the tragic '74 split was a slap in the face to the small, but of devoted mass of followers Crim had acheived w/ this lineup, and I challenge anyone to disagree. This was one of the early, unforgettable indications what a esoteric stick in the mud Fripp could be, which he has demonstrated time and time again over the years. I admit however, the fact that he has forgivenly given us a great band the past nine years is making up for these past indiscretions! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:01:29 EDT From: Scprintup at aol dot com Subject: Crimson as Weather Report Music The post in the last newsletter about "Starless" being used in a TV show made me remember something amusing. I use to live in Los Angeles near the ocean about 20 years ago. A local rock radio station (I don't remember which one now) used to do a daily report on the weather and ocean conditions for boaters, fisherman, surfers, etc. Someone with a strange sense of humor used "The Devil's Triangle" from ITWOP as background music for the report on a regular basis. The station was not otherwise inclined to play any KC. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:46:32 -0400 From: "Jack Bross" Subject: Re: Mellotron on Thrak Quote: >I have read in reviews on the ET web and on the Progressive Ears web that >on Thrak (excellent album by the way) Fripp picked up the mellotron again. >But on which song/s can it be heard? It's not just any mellotron, it's the one from ITCOTCK! Consulting the Gospel According to Sid, the intro to VROOOM is mellotron, whereas the similar stuff in Dinosaur is a Roland Guitar Synth. The aging mellotron is also used consistently during VROOOM VROOOM (the song, not the live album...). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:36:56 +0100 From: "John Critten" Subject: Crimson as TV music This is stretching the subject a little, but the opening (music only) of Dawn Song from Lizard was used at the end of "Nature" on BBC Radio 4 today (9th Sept) - a programme on the topic of Snake venom. I only caught the last 10 mins so there may have been more Crimso featured ! Epitaph was also featured in a play based on student unrest circa 1968, again on Radio 4, broadcast about a year ago. John Critten ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:32:04 -0400 From: Tim Subject: Re: Beatles > Is anyone aware if there has been any contact/comments between/about KC and > any of the Beatles in either careers? Just wondering since there are two KC > albums issued during the ending of the Beatles career. I'm sure many others will bring up Tony Levin's playing on John & Yoko's Double Fantasy... Beyond that, the only references I know come from the Crimson side. There a few LP references, two that come to mind are the illustration of the Beatles on the Lizard cover and Adrian's reference to the death of John Lennon in the LTIA IV coda (which has been performed sans lyrics for a while now.) There have been quite a few individual comments. I recall an online chat with Adrian (who is a huge Beatles fan-many of his songs have a Lennon-esque quality about them). He was asked about the Beatles and if he would ever play with any of them. I seem to remember his answer being he would love to but didn't think it likely they would cross paths. He was also asked about Paul McCartney and asked if he ever happened to meet if he would chastise him for producing lightweight music (the questioner was actually a bit cruder than that!). Ade replied (I paraphrase) that he would never say that, Paul was one of the greats. Fripp has referenced the Beatles often. He admired the depth of the Beatles recordings (i.e., you can listen to them over and over and still hear new things), and has tried to bring that depth to KC. Again, I'm paraphrasing greatly, the Tamm book has some good info about that. Beyond that, I don't know of anything, but I'm hoping others do! Tim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:03:23 -0500 From: "Mike Champagne" Subject: Re: The Longest Day CD + New FraKctured Competition Darren from www.frakctured.net writes in ET1142: >I would just like to take this opportunity to draw your attention to a >little CD that myself and the good people of the FraKctured.net website >have just released called "The Longest Day". It is a 70+ minute CD of >ambient music and soundscapes and it was composed and recorded by members >of the site. The CD design also features photographs submitted by members >too. The CD is available for purchase for $10 (inc shipping) from our >website at: http://www.frakctured.net/store/catalog/default.php We are all >very proud of this CD and think that you all would appreciate the sounds >and atmospheres that it contains. I just received my copy in the mail yesterday . . . and this is one gorgeous piece of plastic, both aurally as well as visually. Darren & co. have done a great job in producing, collecting, and assembling this CD, and it is worth every penny at the bargain-basement price they're selling it for; God knows I've spent three times this much for CDs and not been 1/10th as impressed. If you have ANY interest in ambient music, then BUY this one NOW; you won't regret that you did. Trust me on this! > For those of you who don't want to shell out the moolah (that's cash) we >are also giving away a couple of copies in our regular competition, as >well as a T-shirt and badge set. The unlucky runner-up wins two copies of >the CD! More details: >http://www.frakctured.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=14135#14135 I have to apologize to Darren (and, no, that's not why I'm posting) but I was the winner of the first contest on the FraKctured.net website a few months ago, and received a copy of Andrew Keeling's excellent "Musical Guide to Larks' Tongues in Aspic" for my admittedly trivial efforts. I told Darren that I'd post to ET and announce that the FraKctured contests were indeed for real and not just some greedy marketing gimmick of sorts but, sadly, have yet to do so . . . until now. So, try out the contest, but this may well be the best $10 investment you ever made in a new CD; if you can spare the cash then you won't be disappointed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:32:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Petri Haapa Subject: King Crimson in movies or TV HI In Vincent Gallo's movie Buffalo '66 "Moonchild" was played while the girl danced. Petri Haapa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:17:28 +1000 From: "Chris Keane" Subject: KC and The Beatles Surely not the whole story, but in answer to John's query I can contribute the following: A few years ago at a Yes meet-the-fans thing I asked Alan White what John and Yoko thought of Yes, given that he worked with them for a couple of years before replacing Bruford in that band. In answer to this question, AW said that John and Yoko were well aware of Yes and clearly recalls discussing them on a few occasions before he replaced Bill Bruford. He went on to say that Yoko thought Chris Squire was great and that John thought Bill Bruford was incredibly talented and had a huge future. I thought it was interesting that Bruford's contribution was the big thing for Lennon. The other thing - and I may be wrong about this - is that I am pretty sure Tony Levin did some work with John and Yoko in New York in 1980, most notably on the stunning 'Walking On Thin Ice' but perhaps some kind poster can confirm this or correct me >Subject: Re: KC & the Beatles Is anyone aware if there has been any >contact/comments between/about KC and any of the Beatles in either >careers? Just >wondering since there are two KC albums issued during the >ending of the Beatles career. >John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:40:06 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Jobson on USA; not something to be ashamed of >I finally got around to getting the new edition of USA, and I was curious about something I am sure some ETers know the answer to: Why is Eddie Jobson overdubbed on this (on Schizoid, LTiA II, and Lament)? I thought Cross left/was kicked out after this final tour was over. There were portions where Cross was inaudible, and Jobson was the one to doctor up those parts. This was a common practice on "live" records in the 1970s - another record that was really "sweetened" in the studio after the event was Jean-Luc Ponty's "live" CD from the late 1970s. >The pseudonyms chosen give a certain hint of the kind of persons behind them: king, vicar, punk, machine . Clues on the matter will be highly appreciated. By the way, the music produced by this band is the best on earth, not at all something to be ashamed of. The music will be delivered to a phone booth on the corner of 42nd and Treadmill by a brown-shoed square, in the dead of night. - S. np: Nathan Mahl, Heretik Vol 1: Body of Accusations scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:29:11 -0700 From: jacob at bonzer5 dot com Subject: KC's Co-Headliner/s? I'm going to take a random stab in the dark and say... A Perfect Circle. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part but I'd say that it's somewhat plausible, what with their Tool connection (singer Maynard) and a new album coming out to support. Just like the KC/Tool tour of 2001 (which was unreal), I think it would be a great opportunity for both bands to win over some new fans. Or at least please this one significantly. -J- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:15:24 +0000 From: "FC Prates" Subject: Re: Mellotron on Thrak and a bit more on Fripp/Belew identification Hello folks once again. Allow me to address two questions posted on #1143. -Per Wilhelmsson asked: "I have read in reviews on the ET web and on the Progressive Ears web that on Thrak (excellent album by the way) Fripp picked up the mellotron again. But on which song/s can it be heard? Thanks!" Thrak was Fripp's definitive goodbye to this lovely albeit hellish keyboard--they were sold afterwards, if I'm not out of line. And it's indeedly there, but very well concealed. So much that the only three parts of the album that I've heard it was on the beginning (yes, those strings before "VROOOM" begins are definitely from a mellotron), on "Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream", from 02:41 until 02:56 ("Private velvet animal/Empty TV/They're fishing in the kitchen...") and then from 03:02 until 03:06; the last breath of a mellotron that I can hear on Thrak is on the Coda of "VROOOM VROOOM", from 01:46 until 01:49--pay attention to a flute-like sound that pans from the right to the left underneath all the chaos going on, then finally at 02:25 until 02:29; strings on the right channel. But I bet that there's some more scattered around the entire album. Lastly, that little piano lick you can hear sounds like a Mark II sample, but I'm not sure whether Fripp still had any Mark IIs since he switched to the 400s in 1971. And finally, to clear up one last doubt or Mr. Rikard Grankvist: Yes, both Fripp and Belew use volume pedals, but I'm not so sure if there's one on Dinosaur. Maybe, but from watching some videos I could notice that Robert is capable of playing as if he's subtly using a volume pedal, but he seems to be just playing lightly and then quickly playing harder on some of his solos--finger pressure business. I just love that guy--um, forgive me for my exaltation in here. Ade is a master on playing with one of his fingers on the volume knob on his guitar--just a side note. And to quote him back in '95, about standard tunings: "I really want to see how much mileage I can get out of that; if my ideas start getting stale, I'll set up some guitars to Robert's tuning and see what I can get from that." Guess we have a little bit of the benefit of the doubt in regards to his tuning practices since then, but I think he still uses the standard tuning. Later, F.C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:35:22 +0100 From: "Antonio Maria Correia" Subject: Re: fripp/belew identification hello again. in response to Rikard Grankvist, well, robert has been using the NST exclusively since 1986 and hasnt played the standard tuning, or any other tunings, since then. i know he spent like 7 years working on it, which means he was doing so while King Crimson got back together in 1980/81. The first album he played on with the NST was one of the Andy Summers ones, tho i cant remember which. I dunno if you're a guitarist or, if so, have tried the NST, but i think robert is right. The NST does make a lot more sense than the standard tuning, and goes to further lengths in terms of note amplitude and basically everything else. Sounds awesome. Oh. And I'd like to say that I dont find it difficult at all to identify who's playing the guitar on KC albums. Robert, as we all know, has a unique way of thinking and playing guitar, and so does Adrian, but they are easily identifiable, at least to me. I find it much more difficult figuring out who's playing what (apart from the guitars) on an album like Thrak. You can spot some Bruford breaks, but look at what Pat is doing nowadays... amazingly creative drum work - so that messes the percussion a lot. And Trey and Tony Levin, i usually cant spot on Thrak. Anyways, see you next time Antonio Maria Correia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:38:41 +0100 From: "Antonio Maria Correia" Subject: Re: belew tunings hey again i forgot this one (response to Rikard Grankvist) as far as i know, adrian always plays the regular tuning, but ive heard he sometimes plays with the G-string in A (two half-tones up). that way he can just play 9ths all the time (only on some chords tho, of course). but i dont think he's ever used that on any recorded Krimson material see ya Antonio Maria Correia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:42:46 -0500 From: "Kyle Richards" Subject: Eyes Wide Open DVD I don't know if this has been reported here yet, but according to MusicTap (http://www.musictap.net/) King Crimson is releasing a 2 DVD concert called Eyes Wide Open on October 7th. You can find it on the Sept 11, 2003 page. No other info is given, other than it is being released by Sanctuary. Kyle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:13:13 GMT From: anonymous Subject: Stuff for sale on eBay Just another heads-up that I have some eBay items that ETers might like to check out: Cheers Toby ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1144 *********************************