Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1142 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1142 Monday, 1 September 2003 Today's Topics: NEWS: Welcome to new ET Webmaster ET Distribution Eye Needles licks King Crimson's DeJaVroom's Playboy Mention The Longest Day CD + New FraKctured Competition looper/SGM Deja Vrooom gets noted Re: Fripp's loop-sampler Fripp's HD crash Sleepytime suggestion seconded Chapman Stick Crimson in a Russian TV show Re: Question on the Berkeley 82 show CD and other oddz and endz Re: Chapman Stick, Belew/Fripp identification issues THRaKaTTak for sale ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:00:17 +0000 From: "Toby Howard" Subject: NEWS: Welcome to new ET Webmaster Hi, I'd like to welcome Nadim Haque, our new ET Webmeister. Nadim is in Chicago and hails from Berlin. He'll be gradually taking over the ET Web in the coming months. I'm sure I will echo all ETers in saying "Thanks Nadim, and good luck"! Cheers Toby ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:07:38 +0100 From: "Mike Dickson" Subject: ET Distribution Tim wrote > Rudeness and abuse? With all due respect, I think you (Mike) should take > your own advice. The poor guy never gets an ET, has NO IDEA why, is very > frustrated (as he clearly said), and hasn't gotten a response (you > yourself start this out by admitting you 'didn't get back to him > sooner'). Rather than replying privately with an explanation of the whole > Hot Mail issue (which he would never of course have known or would have > guessed), you instead publicly hang him out to dry. Why? Perfectly simple. He made the complaint in public on ET and I replied in kind. There is also the other issue - I have no idea why Hotmail and/or MSN are rejecting ET. I also have no idea whether any e-mails from me get through to those particular accounts ince it may be rejecting mails based on their domain. If I replied to him privately I have no way of knowing if my reply ever got to him. The remark about not 'getting back sooner' is because I do not read every ET digest when it is issued. > your ET subscription then you may have some grounds to take us to task > for what you think of the 'the service of this newsletter' and what it > should be about. Until that time comes - and there is little chance of it > ever coming - I would be appreciative if you could learn some manners. > > is totally out of line. Do you want us to pay you? If so then say so. If > not then don't use it as an excuse when someone brings forth a criticism > (in this case seemingly well justified) about the newsletter. First of all, the complaint isn't 'well justified'. The complaint is not with ET, me, Toby or anyone else. It's with Hotmail/MSN. It's down to their actions that ET is not being delivered, whatever those actions may be. Secondly, we at ET are not asking for payment for the work we do. To take my words into that context is being disingenuous. My point is clearly that when you are given a free gift like ET then it's bad manners at best to start complaining so vociferously when things aren't going to your liking. I'm not keen on ET becoming a discussion 'all about ET' so I'd rather leave the matter rest here. I will be updating everyone once I get something back from Microsoft. As it stands at the moment I have had to (regretfully) unsubscribe all MSN/Hotmail ET subscribers from the service. In addition, I have set up the admin server to reject all MSN/Hotmail subscription requests with an explanatory message. Hopefully this matter will be resolvedin the not too-distant future one way or another. Mike Dickson, Elephant Talk Administration and Distribution [ Again, I fully support Mike's views. I would ask all ETers to reflect on the SHEER COMPLEXITY of managing an email-newsletter in today's spam-saturated world. We at ET do our best to cope. That's all we can do. Mike, our subscriptions manager, is an EXPERT in what he does. We are VERY lucky to have him! I cannot imagine ANYONE doing a better job than Mike (and believe me, I know what I am talking about, having been a professional Internet user since 1982). So please reflect on that. And as I have said before... if you haven't tried managing a newsletter like ET, with THOUSANDS of subscribers worldwide, you cannot know how hard it is. So I would politely ask everyone to chill out and simply thank God (or whatever you prefer)that ET distro is in the hands of a star like Mike. Oooh I feel like Bruce Forsythe, all GUSHY :-) --Toby] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:25:34 EDT From: Mikewyz at aol dot com Subject: Eye Needles licks The other day I was listening to The League of Gentlemen (which goes very nicely on a 90-minute tape with Sylvian/Fripp's "The First Day"). The song "Eye Needles" came on and, as you all remember, it begins with the keyboard followed soon after by Fripp's entrance. When RF entered with his little guitar licks, my girlfriend noted that said licks sounded familiar and has since been badgering me as to what he could be quoting. I've racked my brain and came up empty, as I expected. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:26:42 -0400 From: "Les B. Labbauf" Subject: King Crimson's DeJaVroom's Playboy Mention I was reading the Playboy advisor column(10/2003 US edition), yeah I know nobody really reads the articles, and noticed a mention to KC's Deja Vroom. A reader was asking about dvd's, besides porn, that featured multi angles. the advisor replied that some sports dvds, and concerts such as King Crimson's Deja Vroom, which allows you to switch to any of the musicians. The last time I recalled seeing King Crimson in Playboy was a French edition a few years ago reviewing TCOL CD. -- Les B. Labbauf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:30:53 +0100 From: "Webmaster" Subject: The Longest Day CD + New FraKctured Competition Greetings! I would just like to take this opportunity to draw your attention to a little CD that myself and the good people of the FraKctured.net website have just released called "The Longest Day". It is a 70+ minute CD of ambient music and soundscapes and it was composed and recorded by members of the site. The CD design also features photographs submitted by members too. The CD is available for purchase for $10 (inc shipping) from our website at: http://www.frakctured.net/store/catalog/default.php We are all very proud of this CD and think that you all would appreciate the sounds and atmospheres that it contains. For those of you who don't want to shell out the moolah (that's cash) we are also giving away a couple of copies in our regular competition, as well as a T-shirt and badge set. The unlucky runner-up wins two copies of the CD! More details: http://www.frakctured.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=14135#14135 Thanks for reading this far, Darren Webmaster FraKctured - A King Crimson ColleKctive http://www.frakctured.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 02:17:26 -0700 (PDT) From: forimul Subject: looper/SGM Hi, to the question of loopers : Line6 has a looper in it's Echo fx : there's a stomp and a rack, and they cost around 400. Only mono, if you want to go stereo, use two and hook 'em up, or buy the Electrix or an Eventide (muchos dineiros). Boss RC20 is something to look at too. And www.loopers-delight.com And let me second Sleepytime Gorilla Museum as opener! And make it a second Euro farewell tour. Whilst recommending : http://www.theredmasque.com A mix of 73 Crim, Magma, VDGG, some goth, but with a unique face. Lots of improvs too. Free downloads of live concerts. If you like '73 Crim improvs, you'll want to hear this. And while I'm at it: my own band's second cd is ready. It's a mix of Hawkwind, Crimson and Kraftwerk at http://www.maninspace.be Jan Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 06:24:58 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Deja Vrooom gets noted From the PLayboy Advisor this month: Q: Do you know of any DVDs besides porn that feature multiangle shots?- DW Roseville CA A: You'll find them on some sports DVDs and concert discs such as King Crimson's Deja Vroom [sic], which allows you to switch to any of the musicians. Hollywood so far has included multiangle shots only as part of a supplemental features. Often you can dissect stunts or toggle between storyboards and the final cut. The special editions of Fight Club, Hannibal, Speed and Die Another Day are notable for their multiangle extras. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:15:37 -0500 From: "bogen" Subject: Re: Fripp's loop-sampler If you can't afford spending the big bucks on an Eventide machine then don't fret, these days there are some cheaper soundscape-worthy loop-toys: Boss RC-20, Gibson TGE-05 Echoplex Digital Pro Plus, and the Electrix Repeater (There are probably more that I can't think of). I own an Electrix Repeater, and it is a marvelous piece of gear. With my trusty GR300, GR700, and Korg MS10 I have created some great ambient loops. I won't elaborate too much on its specs, but here are some of its pros (+) and cons (-) in a nutshell: +4 available tracks, infinite overdubbing capabilities for each track, +up to 15 minutes of total recording time with a 128 MB compact flash card, +up to several hundred loops may be stored on a flash card, +internal tempo/midi clock +Independent tweaking of tempo and pitch +Boss ABC footswitch compatible (undo, play, record) +Affordable price (I paid approximately $500 for mine) -Electrix is no longer in business -The unit is somewhat noisy; digital clicky type noise Regards, Bogen "Another Dead End Street, Another Small Town Death" - http://thecashcountysurvivors.iuma.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:06:24 +0100 From: "Russell Whitworth" Subject: Fripp's HD crash >From Robert's diary of 21 Aug: "A lot of work is lost, mucho reporting of exciting, interesting & important arisings in DGM HQ & SoundWorld, matters Crim, and commentary on the commentary of several online commentators discussing The King Crimson Farewell Tour Of Europe (2003)." What a shame - the latter would have been interesting to read. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:57:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Ethan Taylor Sellers Subject: Sleepytime suggestion seconded Sleepytime Gorilla Museum would indeed be an *awesome* King Crimson opening act. Check out http://www.sleepytimegorillamuseum.com/ - almost like Lark's Tongue meets death metal, with a lot of "found" and home-made instruments. Then again, why wait for a KC tour? Go see them on tour next time out for somewhere in the neighborhood of $7-10 (ticket price at the Double Door or Schuba's in Chicago). -Ethan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Ethan Taylor Sellers etseller at midway dot uchicago dot edu - http://home.uchicago.edu/~etseller esellers at tautologic dot com - http://www.tautologic.com sellers at turtledown dot com - http://www.turtledown.com ethan at ethansellers dot com www.mp3.com/Tautologic/ www.mp3.com/Soul_Calculus/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:33:51 -0400 From: "DENNIS DONEGAN" Subject: Chapman Stick In response to Darryl's inquiry in E.T '41, I first saw the Stick on one of the lp sleeves in "Peter Gabriel Live" in the hands of T.L. The secong BALD guy to play the stick that I recall was Patrick Stewart(as Gurney Halleck) in the 'entry into the Guild Heighliner' scene in the film version of "Dune". Gurneys' "baliset" looked very much like a gussied-up stick. And he played it much the same way as the stick. Just some useless information about this wonderful instrument. Dennis --- DENNIS DONEGAN --- dennispca at earthlink dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 04:35:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Lorias Subject: Crimson in a Russian TV show Today I heard familiar music in a Russian police TV show called "Interceptor". Strangely enough, it was VROOOM. Does anybody know whether any other King Crimson music was ever used in TV shows? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:25:23 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: Re: Question on the Berkeley 82 show CD and other oddz and endz > curious if anyone knows if the Berkeley 1982 show available via the > Crim website has been remastered yet. That's one promise to club members that, sadly, has yet to be fulfilled. Given how much time has passed since the promise was made, I suspect that it is unlikely that it ever will be. > Anybody have a good sounding quality of ITKOCK performed by the 81-84 > line up of KC? No. No one does. It never happened. David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:00:17 +0000 From: "FC Prates" Subject: Re: Chapman Stick, Belew/Fripp identification issues In ET #1140, Darryl W. wrote: "I read an interview with Tony Levin on his website I believe where he said the Chapman Stick has been used since the late 1970s. As far as I know he himself never used it until the third Peter Gabriel album. So, in brief: How long has the Stick been around and, how much has it been used by different artists(and also what fairly well-known songs does the instrument appear on?)" Nope, T-Lev does play the Stick on Pete's second album--more exactly on "D.I.Y.", "A Wonderful Day In A One-Way World" and "Flotsam and Jetsam". I can't tell you about the first album, though (I've had it on vinyl, promptly sold due to its bad pressing qualities and scratches, but that's water under the ukulele) And a quick answer to the Chapman Stick--in case you haven't looked it up on Google yet, it has been created in 1970 by Emmett Chapman, and it began being produced in 1974. If you wanna know from Emmett himself, then by all means, go to www.stick.com and you'll have all your answers to your questions and some more. Now, on to the Belew/Fripp identification issues. Rikard Grankvist wrote: "Thanks for the tips. Try to confirm my asumption: The overdrive solo in Dinosaur (THRAK) and the first solo in ProzaKc Blues (The ConstruKction Of Light) appear to be played by the same guy, and I'm guessing Belew. Mostly because of the fast descending licks which sounds really hammer-on/pull-offish and also because of the amount of distorsion, which I've learnt is a Belew trademark. Am I correct (what made me wonder was a transcription of dinosaur on Elephant-Talk.com saying it was Fripp playing that solo)?" The solo on "Dinosaur" is what you can call a "standard" Fripp solo. Quite frankly, I don't know where's the "hammer-on/pull-offish" characteristics on that solo. About the fast descending licks, well, both Bob and Ade pull that one out. On "Prozakc Blues", though, that's Ade. I don't know if that has been pointed out, but some more tips in here: -Fripp: a) very long, sustained notes followed by furiously fast flurries of notes is a Fripp trademark. There's also a very eastern flavor to his playing, so to speak--Bob's playing is never conventional. He used to tune in fifths in the seventies and I believe in the eighties as well (correct me if I'm wrong, folks), until he formed Guitar Craft, that has it's own tuning. (C, G, D, A, E, G "going up to a high A on a seven string instrument", to quote Bob himself) In regards to the equipment used, it varies a lot from year to year (that's appliable to both Ade and Bob) and it's too much to be listed, but I'll send you a list if you wish. An example of that kind of solo: "The Night Watch", "Providence", "The Sheltering Sky", the first solo on "Level Five". Another quick tip: if you listen to a solo that goes "DOOOYEEEE", it must be Fripp. b) frenzied, often dissonant chordal solos. Examples: "Sailor's Tale", "Indiscipline" (the second solo) -Belew: a) in contrast to Bob, Ade is more "conventional" in regards to his playing. If I'd pick up a flavor in his playing, I'd point out players like Zappa and Hendrix--although he eventually made his own kind of playing. Lots of hammer-on/pull-off techniques, much like you've said, a lot of tapping, lots of whammy bar too. Bob always plays in cross-picking, while Ade uses his fingers sometimes. What's definitely not conventional about Ade is that he's the one who pulls out the weirdest sounds on his guitar (one of the reasons for Zappa to choose him as a sideman in the seventies) Examples: "Elephant Talk", "The Howler", the second solo on "Level Five" b) usage of volume pedals (or the volume knob on the guitar itself). Example: "Matte Kudasai". Now, both of them play synthesized guitar effects, so there's no really a way to tell which one plays most of the "distorted" stuff (both play distorted guitars as well). In the eighties, Bob favored a sound that is known to many Crimheads as the "eastern lament", which is the sound you can hear in his solos on "Sheltering Sky" and "Sartori In Tangier". In the nineties/2k, Ade seems to be the guy behind the non-guitar sounds, such as the oboe on "Dinosaur" and the violin on the double trio rendition of "The Talking Drum". A word of caution, though: what sounds a lot like strings can be Bob as well, exceptionally his Soundscapes. Best regards, F.C. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:00:17 +0000 From: "Toby Howard" Subject: THRaKaTTak for sale Hi, I thought people might be interested in a THRaKaTTaK CD I'm selling in eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category732&item%55114053 Cheers Toby ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1142 *********************************