Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1137 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1137 Friday, 1 August 2003 Today's Topics: MR FRIPP ON A BIG SCREEN Demise of KC radiohead influences/introducing KC to friends/Mars Volta The missing track from recent concerts 70's Wishbone Ash-surprise Re: Airbag - Radiohead / The Mars Volta Re: The Mincer King Crimson web site/Re: RADIOHEAD/I Talk To The Wind chords Re: Andrew Keeling Concert Re: Airbag / Radiohead Paris Gig July 8th Tennis Anyone? Downbeat magazine '73 Indiscipline? Something about Jamie Muir Re: 7/5/93... keeling concert Re: Indiscipline, old version; Budapest gig GIG REVIEW: Paris,_Palais_des_Congres_(Tuesday,_8_ ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:54:54 +0200 From: "patrick rossier" Subject: MR FRIPP ON A BIG SCREEN I AM A SWISS FAN AND THIS SUMMER I MADE 1500 MILES TO SEE THREE CRIMSON SHOWS(milano/nice/montreux) I WAS SO IMPRESSED BY THE POWER OF THIS BAND (espacially M.MASTELLOTTO).WHAT GAVE ME THE MOST PLEASURE IS ADRIAN BELEW'SMILE EVEN I FELT HIM A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS WHILE PLAYING CERTAIN TRACKS LIKE T.C.O.L BUT WHO WOULDN'T BE NERVOUS PLAYING UNDER THE EYES OF MR FRIPP.BUT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT MAKES ME SAD WHEN I READ MR FRIPP'S DIARY.HE WANTS TO STOP TOURING EUROPA BECAUSE THERE ARE FLASHES IN THE AUDIENCE?I WAS MIXED WITH JOY AND SADNESS ON THE MONTREUX SHOW 'CAUSE I WAS AFRAID IT WAS THE LAST TIME I COULD SEE THEM ON TOUR.I CAN OFFER HIM FOR FREE MY PRESENCE AT THE ENTANCE DOOR FOR ALL THE FUTURE EUROPEAN SHOWS AND THAT'S NOT A JOKE.THANK YOU FOR YOUR MUSIC AND I HOPE TO SEE YOU BACK IN EUROPA SOON ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:03:30 +0100 From: "Mike Dennis" Subject: Demise of KC Given all the recent speculation around RF's comments that KC might be coming to an end the following is interesting - in the UK Sunday Times for 20th July Toyah was interviewed about her finances etc for the Money section: Toyah is 45 and lives mainly in Chiswick. She is married to Robert Fripp, a guitarist, who lives in Nashville. Now, in all previous references to her husband I have seem him described as either 'guitarist with King Crimson' or 'founder of King Crimson'. So what do we make of that? Regards Mike Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:43:02 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: radiohead influences/introducing KC to friends/Mars Volta First of all I would like to start by saying that if this even appears in the next issue of ET i will be amazed. I Havent been able to recieve ET for the last 4 months and to TOBY- IM EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED AND DISAPOINTED with the service of this newsletter. All i want is to be put back on the god damn email list so i dont have to read it off the website and so i can respond- theres no reason that i should have stopped recieving the email newsletter anyway. PLEASE RESPOND TO ME ABOUT THIS!! More to the point of this email - I did not listen to Airbag to see the similarities, but for you Beatles fans out there you might be interested to compare the piano part of Karma Police to the Beatles song Sexy Sadie from the White Album. I find them to be EXTREMELY questionably similar. Both great, and they are of course different. the first time i noticed this i was astounded. the more i listen the less similar they are, but its still very interesting. As far as bands being influenced by KC, im suprised that after READING THE ISSUES OF ET THAT IVE MISSED OVER THE LAST 4 MONTHS ONLINE, i didn't see any mention of The Mars Volta. A new band being called "prog" for the new generation, its the 2 more important members of At The Drive In, a great band I know we have discussed on ET before. Their new album is AMAZING. It is my favorite new album of the year right now. I listen to it constantly and i suggest everyone goes out and buys it. one of the freshest most creative albums i've heard in a long time, and the music is incredible. specifically, however, the guitarist seems to show direct influences from Fripp and KC. Not that cool basslines can be credited to KC alone, a lot of the heavy, jazzy kind of bass lines (that i believe Flea provides on the album) are reminiscent of KC. But more so than that, certain points of songs are VERY much like Fripps style of guitar work. the last song on the album in particular, i think around 3:50, they go into a part of the song that is wild guitar fingering. its awesome, and its very KC. anyone else think so? assuming this will show up in ET and im not wasting my time, recnetly ive been getting my friend into KC. interesting points about this - this friend is a girl, she's the only friend ive really gotten to actually take interest in KC on her own, and i had already played them for her with little reaction except what i wanted to hear ("yea it is really cool"). She went out, un prompted, and bought 2 random KC albums - USA and the Happy.. EP. She loves both of them. Now THAT is something wonderful! usually i can only get people into the mid 70's LTIA period of KC and now even that much. She likes it all!! im completely amazing by her. Is it weird to say I am better friends with her because of this development? I mean not only does she say "ok, burn me that album" or "make me a mix of stuff you like", she goes out on her own without even telling me and BUYS two completely different albums! I then gave her the SUmmit Studios release, played some of The Great Deciever and made vol. 1 of my KC mix. Soon ill play her everything else i can. OH! AND she passed the REAL test! I played her stuff from THRAKATTAK and she likes it!!! (i think im in love with this girl!!) the only success story that has come out of the like 8 people ive played KC for. other friends liked it, others even listen to stuff i gave them.. but this is unprecedented! please reply with your thoughts and stories about all these Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:29:10 +0200 From: "Massimo Bracco" Subject: The missing track from recent concerts Hello ETers from over the world, the KC concert in Milan, Italy was really terrific ! If they wanted to beat NUmetal with intelligence, they did it so great : huge energy and power with Fripp willing to solo as hell and Pat beating asses off. >From all reviews of recent concerts, I noticed there's a wonderful song missing from setlists : EYES WIDE OPEN They didn't play it either here in Milan, with some disappointment from many audients. As atmospheric track they preferred to play "One time", great but usual vibe, we wanted to hear how would have been the live arrangement of that new song. Does anybody know if they played EWO in some concert, or know why isn't included in setlist ? Thank You and Bye MAX from Italy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:51:01 -0600 From: "Clarke Curtis" Subject: 70's Growing up in the 70's sucked.Something about K.C. took me to the edge of insanity.I still get wound up listening to Red, Red Nightmare, Easy Money, 21st, Epitat, I Talk, Pictures,Lament,We'll let you know, Elephant Talk, Sheltering,and too many more to mention. Is/was Fripp insane? His music Just got me all worked up (Fracture makes me angry and happy at the same time.) Still the good stuff C. Curtis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:01:13 +0200 From: "lichtafee" Subject: Wishbone Ash-surprise Hello, for some reasons I put Wishbone Ash's "Pilgrimage" after years on my recordplayer. What caught my attention: In "The Pilgrim" there's a short break (around 4:15) that sort of anticipates the 80's-KC interlocking guitar-style (if only for some seconds). The Wishbone's two guitars don't exactly interlock, but the effect is similar (to my ears) - and it's in 7/4 :o) Greetings, Joerg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:30:28 +0200 From: "Polly uit St. Paul's"

Subject: Re: Airbag - Radiohead / The Mars Volta Does anyone know of any KC influences on the new album by Mars Volta ? I'm sorry to have said that there was quite a similarity between Starless and the beginning of Airbag. I'm no musician, I'm only this enjoying dude. I am not even able to tell instruments apart in a song. The part of Starless I meant is off and on between 6 min 43 sec and ends at about 8 min 43 seconds into the song. Have fun and enjoy ! Paul Logman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:40:23 +0400 From: "Andrei Rouliakov" Subject: Re: The Mincer Hi everybody, and Guitar86rick at aol dot com There is not much info about this song, but I'll try to sum up what there is. In Chapter Six of his excellent book about Robert Fripp, Eric Tamm writes: "THE MINCER (by Cross, Fripp, Wetton, Bruford, and Palmer-James). Live recording, with a few overdubs. Another example of what Crimson III was liable to sound like in the throes of improvisation. The song ends unaccountably in the middle - it sounds like the tape ran out." Eric Tamm also sheds some light on the subject of when and where this song was recorded ""The Mincer" Recorded at Parc des Exposition, Zurich, Nov. 15 1973" As for the strange ending, check out the ET FAQ II-30: "What happens at the end of 'The Mincer'? [New August 27, 2000] On the track called 'The Mincer', which appears on the 'Starless and Bible Black' album, the master tape recording machine actually ran out of tape before the end of the song. It was decided to keep the "mistake" intact when the LP was mastered." So it is definitely a live performance, but it is not clear whether the lyrics were recorded during the performance or overdubbed later Well, there is some more "info" supplied by Frank Catterson in the April Fool release of ET #481 "King Crimson's lyrics have always had a deep significance for me. Their meaning to me cannot be imparted due to the fragile magical state they intone, but their significance is undiminished through the years. Except for 'The Mincer' which most agree is rubbish." Hope this helps. Andrei Rouliakov Currently in my CD player: King Crimson, "Red" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 02:18:42 -0400 (EDT) From: thedukeofprunes at webtv dot net (Mike Worden) Subject: King Crimson web site/Re: RADIOHEAD/I Talk To The Wind chords Hello fellow crimheads, i have had a king crimson web site up since april of this year. some new things have been added if anyone is interested plus tons of rare photos of the band and it's members past and present.http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ALLTHINGSCRIM also, even though i like Radiohead a lot, i find no resemblence between them and king crimson whatsoever. i dont know maybe someone is hearing something i'm not. also i play guitar and i was wondering if anyone out there knows the chords to I Talk To The Wind. if so, please e mail me and let me know. thedukeofprunes at webtv dot net it would be much appreciated. Peace, Mike http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ ALLTHINGSCRIM http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/THEWORLDACCORDINGTO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:00:31 +0200 From: "f.bruinenberg" Subject: Re: Andrew Keeling Concert I translated a review from a dutch news paper an posted it on the Krimson news forum, anyway here it is. >From the Haagche Courant from 30-06-2003 Metropole Orchestra put Fripp music in the grinder After a career of almost 35 year guitarist/composer won't be surprised by something. But if he was in Amsterdam instead of Wien with King Crimson he would certainly ask himself if this was his music that was played. The very solid metropole orchestra with conductor Jan Stulen dear it to play Fripp's music in the exuberant arrangement of Andrew Keeling and Bert Lams. The effort of this Brit and Belgium made it that the music of Fripp not only was played by a large orchestra but that also the recognizability of the music was put to the background. The original music of Fripp took the form that Arvo Part use, waving orchestration, delays and repetition of the theme. Robert Fripp is the inventor and developer of the so called soundscapes, sound-landscapes that are made with just a guitar and electronics that lead to monumental constructions. Soundscapes are based on delay, repetition and hazard and are improvised and largely governed by the time, place, audience and the performer's response to them. The Metropole Orchestra played two King Crimson tracks. "Dangerous Curves" started the concert while "Lark's Tongues in Aspic, part II" closed the concert. Five other works where played by the string section assist by soloists. Beautiful where the compositions "Requiescat" (performed by strings, percussion, two horns and Choir New Music) and "Misereire Mei" (performed by strings, reed-players, brass players and again Choir New Music). The arrangements of Fripp music carried positively the signature of Keeling and Lams. You could say that they lead to new music. But with most of the music Fripp was dormant present. On One moment he clearly came to the surface. That was when Herman van Haaren in "Lark's Tongues in Aspic, part II" took a electric violin and played a cool and furious solo. It could have be Robert Fripp himself. kind regards Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:33:37 +0100 From: Matt Nolan Subject: Re: Airbag / Radiohead I've always thought that the main guitar riff in "Just" (on their album, The Bends) was rather Red / One More Red Nightmare / Level 5 / Robert Fripp patented octatonic scale. This progression of intervals is also evident in the vocal line from the amazing Mr Bungle ballad, "Retrovertigo", from their album, California. Out on more of a limb, the angular guitar lines on the Sneaker Pimps track, "Spin Spin Sugar" (from the album, Becoming X, the European version, not the "Import" version) come across as rather "frippian". The influence gets everywhere... Regards, Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:49:57 +0200 From: Bouchard Christian Subject: Paris Gig July 8th Posting from France Great concert, as usual with KC but far too loud. It's a pitty because most of the subtle bits, dynamic range and wide texturing within the KC music present in their last CD was somehow drowned into an harsh and mushy wall of sound.Some pieces were even hardly recognisable: for instance it took me several seconds before I could clearly identify " that's fact of life ". I'm just wondering why it has to sound so loud and uncomfortable ? Is louder = better? Reading the R.Fripp diary about this Paris concert, I felt puzzled when he mentionned the favourable comments from the audience about the sound of the show; it was the opposite: at the end of the concert, we met Greg Dean, the sound engineer, a very kind person. During a very friendly and open discussion with him where we had the opportunity to report the overall uncomfortable loudness, he admitted the room and local PA were quite though to fine-tune during the show and he really had hard time with these; hence the earpiercing sound of Ade' s voice and of some guitar solos (eg : Fripp in " Electrik ").On another hand, Trey Gunn and P.Mastelotto's kick drum were hardly audible most of the time. I just wanted to give some "audience feedback" to Greg in case this could be helpfull for him for futher show. Again thanks Greg for your patience and your kindness. Nevertheless, these shortcomings were minors and I really liked the concert . The audience was quiet , respectfull and start to get really hotter at the second part of the set , which IMHO , was also better and more involving. BTW, eventhough it might be obvious and already mentionned by other E.T posters, I liked very much the " Power To Believe " album, perhaps because some pieces are somehow refering to past KC albums : * " A capella " has a part which strongly reminds me of Fracture from 1974 " Starless and Bible Black ". * " Elektrik " has a Fripp's flying solo which reminds me of Sailor tales from 1971 " Islands ". * Lastly " Dangerous Curve " has a very strong link with Devil's Triangle from " In the Wake of Poseidon ". Have A Nice Day Christian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:20:40 -0400 From: "Josh Chasin" Subject: Tennis Anyone? The question isn't why Crim plays a tennis stadium. The question is: do they prefer gras or clay? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:46:24 -0700 From: "Dan Anderson" Subject: Downbeat magazine Yo! Recent issue of Downbeat magazine rates The Power To Believe with four stars. Yowsah! Dan Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:13:43 +0300 From: Eino Keskitalo Subject: '73 Indiscipline? > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:10:37 +0200 > From: jawa56 at td-srl dot com > Subject: about Indiscipline.......an old version > i discovered in one of my bootleg, called Live in Germany 1973, printed on > CD in Italy in 1990, a version of ''Indiscipline'', called (on the bootleg) > I keep myself under stress - 7'53'', and played by > Fripp/Wetton/Cross/Bruford (they also include Muir but is not correct). Diving into the magnificent King Crimson Live! website reveals that this track and the Larks' 2 performance are from 1981/05/07, Polytechnic Manchester, UK. [ I was there! It was sweaty and beery and wonderful! -- Toby ] In addition, only Cat Food is from 1973, rest of the disc is from Mainz 1974 (which is covered in KCCC #15). Looking at the Mainz gig, KCL! also tells us that a bootleg of the complete gig exists - at least it lists Fracture and Larks' 2. Check out KCL! at http://members.aol.com/kingcrimsonlive/ --Eino ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:12:00 +0200 From: "Pavel N." Subject: Something about Jamie Muir Hello, Crimson enthusiasts! I need your help. I start to make my own czech www page about Jamie Muir, and I don't know some important informations. So, does anybody know: - birthday of Jamie? - a page with his biography, informations about him, photos...? - his complete discography? - or something interesting about him? Please help me. Thanks. P.S. Greetins for L.Zalom, webmaster of great czech crimson fansite, od elena odva neho moravskeho tymu - Pavla N. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:44:19 EDT From: TheGlarb at aol dot com Subject: Re: 7/5/93... >"The First Day". Give it a listen sometime this month. Does it not sound as vibrant and relevant today as it did back when it was released? Indeed. The crisp and spacious sound really brings out the cohesion and tightness in the rhythm section. There isn't a bad track on the disc. The band is not afraid to lay down a groove as well as proving that they can supply a load of chops for the technically inclined eggheads. Sylvian's straight-forward lyrics seem to make the disc as relevant today as when it came out. What a welcome change of pace when compared to other Crimson releases. Fripp rips without conscience. Also, I figure the odds are slim of it happening, yet I would love to see Fripp, Gunn and Mastellotto join Sylvian on stage for a couple songs when they tour together. --glarbage ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:32:05 +0100 From: "phill lister" Subject: keeling concert Dan, you asked if anyone heard the Keeling concert. I listened to most of it and was moved by the orchestrations of the soundscapes more than the Crimso numbers. Perhaps the soundscapes are conceived with an "orchestral" aesthetic and that's why they seemed to me to work better than the orchestrations of music conceived for and developed in the band? Fripp's latest diary entries indicate he likes the soundscape orchestrations. The tapes are apparently being mixed for disc by David Singleton. These mixes might reveal something missing from the broadcast mix. It'll be interesting to hear them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 05:02:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Gabor Rudolf Subject: Re: Indiscipline, old version; Budapest gig In ET 1136 Vittorio ''Vic'' Righini wrote: > i discovered in one of my bootleg, called Live in Germany 1973, printed > on CD in Italy in 1990, a version of ''Indiscipline'', called (on the > bootleg) I keep myself under stress - 7'53'', and played by > Fripp/Wetton/Cross/Bruford (they also include Muir but is not correct). > It is possible that this song was played about 10 years before to be > officially edited ? I also have this CD; the track list is as follows: 1 I keep myself under stress 7'53 (Indiscipline) 2 Lark's tongues in aspik 6'36 (Ltia2) 3 Train to health 8'25 (Doctor Diamond) 4 We'll let you know 4'58 (?) 5 The night watch 5'03 6 Easy money 6'42 7 Cat food 5'35 I'm pretty sure that the first two tracks come from an 80's performance (though they have a darker and more 'menacing' sound than any of the officially released concerts from that era). It can be clearly heard for example that in Ltia2 there are two electric guitars & no violin. The rest of the album definitely comes from the 70's, though i'm not sure whether Muir is present or not. Hope this clears it up. On an unrelated topic, hats off to the promoters of the Budapest gig (july 15); it was great to see every inch of my home city covered in KC posters. There was a huge audience, a lot of people (mostly Hungarians) came from the neighboring countries too. The atmosphere was great, which came as a pleasant surprise to me after having seen the second NYC, Town Hall show earlier this year which was somewhat problematic. The band clearly had a good time and watching Ade & Trey react to the belly dancers was amusing to the extreme. I won't go into musical details since a review & track list has already been posted; the band was amazingly tight & overall this was the best KC show i've seen or heard; hope a live release (KCCC or otherwise) from the European tour is coming soon. Gabor Rudolf RUTCOR-Rutgers University 640 Bartholomew Rd Piscataway,NJ 08854-8003 USA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:07:23 +0200 From: "Titeuf" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Paris,_Palais_des_Congres_(Tuesday,_8_ july_2003) Hi beautiful people, I was in the KC concert in Paris with two friends. Me, I'm a child of the Progressive Rock (with despair of my parents !), my first musical shock was the album Lark's Tongues in Aspic in 1976 (I was 13 old). The two friends are childs of the Classical Music of which is tuner of piano. and it's not surprising, they like the "Classical" KC and not the "Projeckt" KC. My wife is teacher of music for children and she has the same opinion: "too much contemporary" for her. Interesting matter of study ! The content described of the concert is well described by "Edo" in the newsletter #1136. Except that for me the sound was'nt too loud (no problem, when you have the ears "too old to rock'n'roll, too young to die") The sound was really better that in the concert of KC at the Olympia (Paris 2000, TCOL tour). I like the fusion of Projeckt and KC now. I have just regretted the lack of improvisation during the concert. I find the live album THrakAttak really fantastic ! I wait impatiently the next concert of KC in Paris or in London, if Robert Fripp don't stop his carreer with KC ! Thierry call the "crasy froggy" by his english colleague. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1137 *********************************