Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1135 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1135 Tuesday, 15 July 2003 Today's Topics: Re: Fripp Solos Re: The King Crimson Barber Shop Re: Subject: GIG REVIEW: KC Prague concert review (17. June 03) issue 1133 Toyah Re: Airbag - Radiohead Re: 2 Drummers/More for dvd/CC Riders/Yes/Schizoid Band Re: Rock Percussion GIG NEWS - Fractal Live 12th July @Pat O'Shea's in SF El Crimzaroo to the Max! (A Response to Raleigh) Requesting the aid of Ade... Re: Non-Crimson Belew KCCC 22 and more The Mincer ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:59:52 EDT From: RAnder3567 at aol dot com Subject: Re: Fripp Solos In a message dated 7/5/03 8:22:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes: > Some of Mr. Fripp's work with Van Der Graaf is worth note, too, > from H to He, e. g. > He's on Pawn Hearts, too, if memory serves well....... Robert Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:18:47 +0400 From: "Andrei Rouliakov" Subject: Re: The King Crimson Barber Shop In ET #1132 Vladimir Kalnitsky wrote: >I'll be very pleased for the lyrics of "The King Crimson Barber >Shop" from "The Abbreviated King Crimson: Heartbeat". Taken from the 30th Anniversary Edition of 3OTPP (the one with 6 bonus tracks). the king crimson barber shop I'm tony. I'm billy. I'm bobby. I'm belew we're here to sing and play for you oh we're the king crimson band - and don't you know it we're the best in all the land - all the land we play bass and the drums and guitar for you and if you really want we'll throw the stick in too oh we're the king crimson band, on eg records and you know we think that's grand so settle back to have some fun and tap your foot in twenty one cos we're the king crimson band - you better believe it the king crimson band - we don't do encores the king crimson band - no photos please cos we're the king crimson band - we don't do 21st century schizoid man but we're the king crimson band. (c)Crimson Music/BMG Music Publishing Ltd ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:21:18 +0200 From: "Galli Danilo" Subject: Re: Subject: GIG REVIEW: KC Prague concert review (17. June 03) issue 1133 Tony Levin playing bass in Prague?Trey Gunn Missing ? Robert Fripp, as always (as far as I know) was sitting hidden next to illuminated synthesizers ?Come on, you're English may have improved but your Kc. knowledge? Danilo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:06:31 +0100 From: Mr Tea Subject: Toyah I just saw a publicity shot for the current UK West End revival of Calamity Jane. The show's been getting mixed reviews, but I have to say that Ms Wilcox looks fab dressed head to foot in tight buckskin and wielding a coupla six-guns. Hopefully, she'll have the chance to take the costume home and model it for her hubby. That should get his creative juices flowing. Regards, Nick pp Mr Tea -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 07:49:16 -0500 From: James Robert McDaniel Subject: Re: Airbag - Radiohead You must be referring to the bass line during the quiet part with the slow- building guitar solo and Bill hitting the block on different beats. I see that it has similarities with the theme from Airbag. However, I wouldn't agree that the two phrases are the same. The actual intervals and "melodies" are different for both songs (you can see this if you find printed music or guitar tab for both of these lines). Also, not to get in too deep into music theory, the Starless interlude is in 13/8 time (very unusual) while Airbag is in 4/4, thus each theme has a different rhythm as well as a different melody. James R. McDaniel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:37:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Munari Subject: Re: 2 Drummers/More for dvd/CC Riders/Yes/Schizoid Band Hello Kriminals! Since I sort of started this whole thing(about drummers)when suggesting some Frank Zappa albums to get i'll make a short statement here. Especially for Jorge who seems to be most interested in this topic, Hello Joerg! I stated 'toung in cheek' that "Virgil Donati was the finest drummer playing today!" The 'tounge in cheek part was, OF COURSE NO ONE is the BEST at anything, as everything is subjective. I just wanted people whom read ET to begin discussing drummers & hopefully pay some very much needed attention to the alien talents of Mr. Donati! I suceeded in at least getting people talking about drummers. Donati can play ANY style, and groove, or play free jazz, or fusion or just assualt your senses with the fastest hands on his 'cross-over's' i've ever seen, & the double stroke rolls on the bass drum(s)is unparalleled! Now as far as Mr. Donati goes I would hope that everyone whom loves exciting, fresh new music that should appeal to almost everyone whom reads ET that 'they' look for & pick up, either "Universe" or "Planet X Live From Oz" produced by Simon Phillips, or the latest, "Moonbabies". If not Planet X then any of Virgils many solo cd's all of which are brilliant, but i'll mention only 1 here, "On The Virg-Serious Young Insects" which contains some of the sickest wicked playing by Virgil's all star Australian band! He also has played on many other musicians cd's for example: the great guitarist Joel Hoekstra's "Undefined" which has the tremendous Ricc Fierbracci on bass and various musicians but i'll name only Cathy Richardson contributions for 'ASS SLAPPING' & vocals. The "Just Add Water" cd he did w/the amazing Scott Henderson(of Tribal Tech)guitar & again Ricc Fierbracci bass. This is to quote the liner notes, "The music on this recording is the result of a spontaneous, unrehearsed jam session held at M.I. studio in Hollywood Ca. on 22nd Dec. 1996. There are no overdubs and all the tracks are 1st takes." UNREAL! As I was saying, I made a suggestion of many Zappa albums for the poster, the 1st I suggested was "Zappa/Mothers Roxy/Elsewhere" recorded in 1973(Most from the Roxy)& some from 74. This fits in greatly with the 2 drummer thread. This awesome recording contains the finest(imho)dbl drumming duo & purcussionist on record. The drummers were the AMAZING Ralph Humphrey(Check him out on "Overnite Sensation" 1 of FZ's best!)& a drummer all whom read ET know Chester Thompson. Then you get to hear the greatest female percussionist of her time Ruth Underwood. If it's real double drumming you want then this is it, as everyone plays differently on ea. song, ALL THREE! To Poster Nick in last ET or so, indeed, Wayne Cochran & The CC Riders did employ two drummers. I got to see Wayne & Riders(whom btw are on the new Jaco Pastorius dbl cd "Punk Jazz"! So at least jaco dug them!)during a 7 nite stand at the 'Fabulous'"FOX THEATRE" here in St. Louis in I believe 67 ot 68. Some friends & I from High School would go there nearly every night as we knew some girls whom worked the ticket window & 1 was an usher, so we got in free(Sorry Wayne). Wayne INDEED worshipped James Brown & except that he was white he took everything James had done & made everything BIGGER! A HUGE Bleached blonde pompadour, and costumes he had made by hand that were so outlandish. Now Wayne couldn't sing nearly as well as JB or dance like JB but he sure tried, & left everything on the stage each night! The only hit record I recall from then was "Going back To Miami". He appeared often on the Jackie Gleason show & while he did tour he mainly played in Florida the Miami area(mostly)but did meet Elvis. Try www.waynecochran.com for some stoies & unreal photos of Wayne. Also for great dbl drumming check out Mr. James Brown recordings. He mainly used two drummers, but a few tours that I know of only 1. The most famous 2 drummers I remember seeing him play "live with(in 67 & 68)were Clyde Stubbfield & John "JABO" Starks! Also William "Beau Dollar" Bowman the drummer on my fave JB tune of all time, "I Can't Stand Myself(When You Touch Me)" Awesome music. To poster JimmyBob: I concur with all the early KC video you mention that "SHOULD BE" on a dvd(but probably never will be)but would also add the brilliant 1981 performace of Elephant Talk & Thela Hun Gingeet on the American show "FRIDAYS"! I recorded it on my beta machine then a few years later had to transfer it to VHS but I still have it & wacth it regularly, but it would be wonderful to see it in pristine condition. Also a must would be the 1973 performance of Easy Money & I believe 2 more tunes from Don Kirchner's "MIDNIGHT SPECIAL"! I believe those are the only 2 older U.S. shows KC played on. I believe the Hyde Park concert of "YES" & "The 21st Century Schizoid Band" has already happened hasn't it? If so please let some people post their thoughts about the gig, especially so I can hear how great the 'Schizoid Band' was w/Ian wallace now playing!! BTW Ian, i'm STILL working on getting those great photos to you of your deluxe handpainted kit that was stolen during KC's tour of 72 or was it 73? That's about it Kriminals. Hope I helped a little & I really hope more of you will check out ALL DRUMMERS but especially Virgil Donati, as people like Simon Phillips & Dennis Chambers and Mike Portnoy have stated that they cannot do what Virgil can, & are in awe of his ability. dave Weckl said this: "Imagine how much Virgil must have to practice to be that good!" Btw, Virgil was touring with "CAB" the Buney Brunel group, but I think the U.S. tour is now over? Many of you might be interested in other incarnations of CAB as people from bands like Pentangle ect. were involved, as well as the afore mentioned Chambers, Tony MacAlpine, Patrice Rushen, Keith Emerson ect. Check Pollstar for future CAB events. Thanks. "There are forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers." Don Van Vliet or Captain Beefheart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 15:54:37 -0400 From: BARLETB at Nationwide dot com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Rock Percussion >I just saw The Dead last night on Letterman and I'd say on average, that >the drummers played maybe 1 out of every 10 notes differently --- other There's the yardstick to measure all double drumming duo's by...a LETTERMAN performance! No need to defend, but I suggest renting one of the many video's or DVD's that are out there OR perchance go see them in concert since the camera doesn't actually stay on the both of them the whole show... Btw..were both drummers performing with "The Dead"? I didn't know that. Would be nice to see them even if they DON'T have Jerry should they wander through my town. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 15:08:09 -0700 From: adrian cockcroft Subject: GIG NEWS - Fractal Live 12th July @Pat O'Shea's in SF After a few months of enforced idleness, Fractal return to live work with a gig at Pat O'Shea's in San Francisco on Sat 12th July 2003, joining Savant Guard and the Bartron Tyler Group. We play, what some would call, an eclectic mix of rock, progressive, jazz, electronic and ambient music - influences and similarities include King Crimson, Pat Metheny, Radiohead, Steve Reich etc. Visit http://www.mp3.com/fractal_ (don't forget the final underscore!) for a few samples from our upcoming CD - "Continuum". The setlist includes our very own interpretations of Red, Breathless and FraKCtured (because we can) alongside distinctively Fractal compositions and improvisations... Details: When? - Sat 12th July Who? - Fractal + Savant Guard + the Bartron Tyler Group Where? - Pat O'Shea's (http://www.patosheas.com), Where again? - http://www.patosheas.com/visitus.htm We hope that you can come along and join us for what should be a full evening of live music. Fractal are on last, from somewhere around 11:30 or midnight 'til about 1 (yikes)! Be there or be....somewhere else I guess :o) Cheers Paul, Nic, Jim (and Adrian) http://www.fractal-continuum.com p.s. Fractal was formed in late 2000, after a posting in ET got the members together ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:16:27 EDT From: Jacbeerbs at aol dot com Subject: El Crimzaroo to the Max! (A Response to Raleigh) I was thinking about In the Wake of Poseidon recently and asking myself the same question, "Is it the same as The First One?!" After listening to A Man, A City on disc one of Epitaph's box set, the answer came as a very aggressive "No." To my ears it sounds like the cut where they flexed the most dynamics. It has an uncanny swagger not found for the most part in bands of that particular year or so when Crimson The Great appeared to the world. The basis for the songs one the first two albums including material found on Islands, was composed or became available in a very frenzied period of Crimso's early development making personal and musical evolutions manifest themselves in every juggled Giles rhythm, Tippet ivory tickle and every skurling, sighing Frippism. Not to mention Groon is the greatest B-side in history. Bar none. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:07:31 -0400 From: Dave Subject: Requesting the aid of Ade... Thanks to those who wrote me with suggestions and insights...much appreciated. And also to those who forgive my minor obsession of this subject.... An edited exchange: (reprinted by permission) Rob Murphree wrote: > Dave, > I have received a lot of requests for these lyrics and have expressed > my desire to Adrian for an update to his lyrics page. We'll just have > to wait until he returns from the tour. > I'll post something to E.T. as soon as I get them from Adrian. I'm > equally as anxious. > Thank you for your patience. > Rob Murphree > Adrian Belew Webmaster > www.adrianbelew.net > Hello Mr Murphree... > I understand that fans may contact you with questions for Adrian. If > this is incorrect, I'd much appreciate if you might please inform me > as to where I may send > the following question. (I forward in it's entirety a post I sent to > Elephant Talk). > Thank you very much, in advance, for whatever help you may be able to > offer. > > > And when I have some words > This is the way I'll sing > Through a distortion box > To make them menacing > > And for a second verse > Of terse economy > I'll brew another pot > Of ambiguity > > > I found this on ET @ > http://www.elephant-talk.com/releases/power.htm#lyrics5 > > Is this official? Was this sent in by a fan, or is this somehow > sanctioned by Ade? (And listening to the interviews on the TPTB Tour > Box, I doubt I'd take anyone's word but his. :) Maybe he'd chime in? > > Anyway, the more I think about it, my logic carries me elsewhere on > one part. If I may... > > And when I have some words > This is the way I'll sing > Through a distortion box > To make them mena-"sing" > > He's talking about the way he sings his words...about the song itself, > just as the chorus clearly indicates. And because I think the first > verse ends on a word play (Ade Belew playing with words?....noooooooo > ;), I see the 2d one as: > > And for a second verse > I'll turn (sconda?) wide (wide wide wide wide) > I'll brew another pot > Of ambigui-"tea" > > In this, he's still describing the song, perhaps "turning [something] > wide"(?), which I'm assuming is the effect that gives him the > "...wide...wide...wide...wide..." And what does that effect and the > aural word twisting do? They brew a pot of ambigui-"tea"...ala > mena-"sing". I don't know what Ade uses on his voice there...what the > effect is called. > > I searched for the combined term "terse economy" in the ET Archives > and didn't find any reasoning for that line. Perhaps I missed > something. I never did think it fit in with the rest of the song, > though. > > Please feel free to drop me a line off-list @ this, even just to poke > at my reasoning. Try to be constructive, though, huh? > > Dave Steimling > DC-ET #9 > http://dc-et.freeservers.com/ > http://www.midnightmecca.com/ > > "Is there a Groucho Marxist doctrine in the house?" - AB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:41:37 +0400 From: "Andrei Rouliakov" Subject: Re: Non-Crimson Belew In ET #1132 Gerard York wrote: >Hi, Gang: >What can I say? I'm a slow learner. I am just starting >to dig into non-Crimson Belew: I recently bought Frank >Zappa's "Sheik Yerbouti" and "You Can't Do That On >Stage Anymore, Parts 1 & 6." Any suggestions for the >next stop are deeply appreciated. Well, I would suggest his solo albums. I happen to have only five of those - "Lone Rhino", "Twang Bar King", "Desire Caught by the Tail" (these first three were released on CDs in Japan last December, and I was able to get them, actually I got the first and the third a couple of minutes after I talked to him in person and told him that his solo stuff is sometimes more interesting than his Crimson work, for which he thanked me, and I thanked him in return), "Here", and "Op Zop Too Wah" (this is the album he signed when I talked to him - this was in Moscow on June 11). Those five albums I heartily recommend. Though I have never heard his other solo albums (still looking for them), I think that they are also really good. Pay serious attention to lyrics, when listening to anything written by Adrian. And don't forget to pay attention to the music. Andrei Currently in my CD player: Adrian Belew, "Here" (P) 1994 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:08:00 -0700 From: "Dan Anderson" Subject: KCCC 22 and more Well, I don't know about the rest of you but KCCC 22 fails to deliver on the first couple of listens. I liked the boxed set copy better. What would be a great release for a future selection, however, would be the show where Ade got sick and ProjeKct Three had to go on at the last moment. This is history and I wouldn't doubt that DGM has the show in the files. This was a great moment in the history of the band. Where others woud've cancelled the show, KC fractalized and improvised. What balls! Yours, Dan Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:27:02 EDT From: Guitar86rick at aol dot com Subject: The Mincer I am very curious about KC's song from SABB, The Mincer. Was this a live improv that John Wetton dubbed his voice over as I suspect, or did actually sing live. Or perhaps this was actually a written song, but it doesn't appear like it to my ears. Lastly, why does the song end the way it does? Did the tape run out, or what? If anyone knows, please post their answer. Rick ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1135 *********************************