Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1132 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1132 Saturday, 5 July 2003 Today's Topics: Airbag - Radiohead Howzabout this- UK Gigs Hello! early ambient-music Re: ambient Fripp and The Cars No UK Gigs Re: Rock Percussion Propaganda Best Not Served Up At All Re: DGM and iTunes More 2x Drummers Fripp solos: Exiles Fripp Solos The King Crimson Barber Shop Re: Great Fripp Solos / Meeting Mr. Belew K.C - The Power to Believe Non-Crimson Belew Erratum: King Crimson in Genoa 21/06/03 GIG REVIEW: King Crimson in Genoa 23/06/2003 GIG REVIEW: Rome 24/6/2003 gig ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 19:47:33 +0200 From: "Polly uit St. Paul's" Subject: Airbag - Radiohead Hi there ! Did anyone else notice this before ? We were having this album top 100 in the bar in which I work. Ended up on number 2 was OK Computer. (I was the only one voting for King Crimson..). The selected song they played was Airbag (track no.1). When I heard it, i thought rightaway htis was done by King Crimson. The beginning of the song that is. And after playing my Red-album once more it turned out to be quite an exact copy of the middle part of Starless on the album red. Did anyone notice this before and mention it before ? I'm sorry to mention it again if so. Paul Logman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:47:16 -0400 From: "Dan Miller" Subject: Howzabout this- Howzabout this- P@, Trey , Ade & CG3? "PTA /CG3" "ThraKcrafties" or 21C Schidzoidz+ BB +T Lev + P@ +Trey + Ade? " Too Many CooKcs " " Love That Bob " Hmmmm.... p.s. I had a dream the other night that our RF was creating soundscapes with an electric viol da gamba (which was on its back on a table), the audients were chatting away. RF couldn't take it, jumped off the stage, got right in peoples faces and screamed at them.He angrily looked at me, asked in a mean, sarcastic way if I wanted to SING. I was scared and wimpered "no". A day is a miniature eternity. --Ralph Waldo Emerson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:09:19 +0100 From: "John Stait" Subject: UK Gigs Dear All, If Pat Metheny can play Poole, prior to the Royal Festival Hall, why not King Crimson. It's not as if they have not played there before & it's not far from Bob's home. May even manage a quick pint before Toyah picks him up. Regards, John. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:08:04 +0100 From: "Richard Heath" Subject: Hello! Just a note for UK readers - the current issue of Hello! magazine has an interview with Fripp and Toyah (again), mostly talking about their new home (again). My girlfriend bought it for me, though I've already forgotten to hide it under the sofa when friends come round. What with his several 'I'm a Celebrity...'-related TV appearances, this marks quite a high media profile for the famously reticent RF, whose teeth I would presume to be set on edge by the very concept of 'celebrities', and the tabloid media pandering to a prurient interest in the details of their personal lives. I can only imagine it's Easy Money. Still, it does feel especially galling that this is the only context in which those of us in the UK are likely to see him in the near future. I'm not bitter, honest... Richard Heath ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:12:48 +0200 From: "lichtafee" Subject: early ambient-music Hello! Regarding the search for the earliest ambient music, when the name Cage was mentioned in the last ET-issue, I associated french composer Eric Satie in this context. I have to admit that I don't listen to ambient music, and I do not know much of Satie, but I guess he made up a concept (or actually a piece? - but surely not a *recording*) called "musique d'amoeblement", "furniture music". Not in the sense of drumming on any furniture (as Cage asked in one of his earlier pieces :o), but music being around in a room, just like the furniture, creating the ambience. He made up that idea maybe in the 20s or even earlier, and I'm pretty sure he *explicitly* had the "ambient"-idea about that piece/concept. Joerg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:53:09 -0400 From: "Steven Paul Rewa B.S." Subject: Re: ambient >Finally, there is something else that ought to be mentioned. Muzak, the > stuff that used to piped into lifts and department stores. It was designed > to merge into the background and was the true ambient music of the 1950s > and 60s. > > Gordy. I love this! I really don't listen to electronic music all that much. Truth be told I really prefer acoustic instruments of any type over their electric or electronic counterparts. As such, I hadn't heard of ambient music until a friend of mine asked me if I was a fan. I immediately thought of muzak. Anon, -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:19:26 -0500 From: "Duffell, Norman L" Subject: Fripp and The Cars Has anyone ever noticed the uncanny Fripp-ish solo on The Cars song "Since You've Gone"? Is this an unaccredited Fripp appearance or just a good Fripp imitation? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 21:03:45 +0100 From: "Paul Parkinson" Subject: No UK Gigs I think I too have a major problem with the total lack of UK gigs. Whilst I thought the last UK gig at Shepherds Bush was less than marvellous (material wasn't to MY taste, too hot, too crowded etc.) I did enjoy the last album and was looking forward to a London / South East gig. The point I want to raise is WHY? There are plenty of places to play... Best regards Paul Parkinson paul at technotropolis dot com paul at paulparkinson dot com Mob +44 (0) 7767 44 3536 Tel +44 (0) 20 8300 5090 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:24:35 -0500 From: Scott Ranalli Subject: Re: Re: Rock Percussion >I have nothing to say about the Allman Brothers Band, but as for the >Dead, whether you like what they do or not, that's not even sort of >true. I just saw The Dead last night on Letterman and I'd say on average, that the drummers played maybe 1 out of every 10 notes differently --- other than that, their parts were exactly the same. So I guess that makes the other person's statement mostly true, which I believe is greater than "even sort of true"! Can we get a ruling from the judges on that one? ;-) If multiple percussionists are your new passion, then check out some old Gong (Pierre Moerlen's) albums. Big Onion Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 01:54:35 +0100 From: "Steve Goodman" Subject: Propaganda Best Not Served Up At All In ET#1130 Douglas Arthur gushed about iTunes... > I haven't seent his mentioned here yet but it seems > obvious to me that a new form of distribution has > opened up. Napster for the Mac, with fees for download/play. Not very new at all. > I know I'll get a lot of naysaying from PC > users out there but having used it, The iTunes Music > Store on the Mac is fantastic and I think the perfect > model for future distribution of music. That is what Apple has been saying over and over and over again, but repetition alone doesn't make it true. It remains to be seen just what business model will even exist in the future for music distribution, because the game isn't just the Big Five anymore. Anyone who has followed Fripp's business handling, to say nothing of paying attention to what's been happening in the so-called home recording market, would have to admit that, just because the RIAA says they like it, doesn't mean it works for the folks who create the music. Individuals have been able to publish their own work, and get it in stores, for several years now, thanks to the innovative efforts of companies like CDBaby, CDStreet, as well as a broad and growing array of other firms. > The majors are asking and getting about 65 > cents per download from each 99 cent download from > Apple, so this would be a good deal for DGM. If DGM were one of the Big Five this might be the case. It's not. If one looks at the amount of money the artist gets after the Big Five have pulled their percentages out of it, it sure as hell ain't 65c a download. Most likely the artists are lucky to see .01c per 100 downloads. But of course Apple hasn't really published the numbers about this. It wouldn't be "good PR". > A lot of PC naysayers point to the small market share > of Apple for this ultimately being a bad idea, but I > think otherwise. Consider this...Apple has only a 3-5% > market share depending on who you believe... Or 1-3% depending on whom one reads. Apple's CultThink has been winding down for years, but has been very effective in creating a slavish, insanely faithful - but very small - group of users. Their volume of screams of praise for everything Apple produces is redundant and boring after all these years. No doubt Apple hopes iTunes will give them a shot in the arm, and perhaps some elements of the business model may be used / abused by the Big Five, with some bits of it eventually being traceable to the future distribution processes. > and of > that only about 20% are running the most current OS > needed for running the Music Store Which makes for an even smaller user base than the regular Mac user base. And pretty much paints Jobs' promos for iTunes as preaching to the choir. >..., and still they > handled more than 3 million downloads in the first > month of operation alone. It still hasn't been determined just where the downloads were to. For all we know it was all from Cupertino, and LA (though there aren't a lot of Macs in the business end of even the Big Five), with the rest being picked up by the aforesaid slavish Mac community. Those that could afford to upgrade their hardware and software - in most cases all-out replacements and not merely upgrades - in order to use iTunes. And so, until the real accounting is done - if it is ever done - one may never know the truth. > Apple has promised a Windoze > version by years end making this a huge potential > audience. No denying the PC market is a huge one - between 95-99% depending on whom you believe - but it would be a first for Apple to produce a non-Mac product, let alone one that succeeds. > I would caution any PC apologist that may consider > bashing this to learn about the service first and > maybe go to a local Apple dealer to check it out. Having a finger on the implementation and support market - for both PCs and Macs - is one of the things I do for a living. It helps me to help my clients get their jobs done. You invite a rebuttal to your post with such words, so don't be disappointed if you get it in spades. > Nothing is worse than an uninformed opinion. Incorrect. Allowing oneself to be overly-influenced by encapsulated and non-verified PR material is pretty bad on its own. Unless one is a salesman for a single company's products, in which case it's a tool for self-motivation, leading to hopefully more sales. > Reading > propaganda from a PC magazine is not enough. I prefer to pay attention to the market instead of professional pundits, and tend to do cartoons on the side about the CD and DVD production business as well. This month, given the anniversary of vinyl (remember that?), it was incumbent upon me to do something funny about vinyl, years and years on down the road. I was briefly asked to put an iPod into the cartoon! It was of course completely off-topic to the idea of singles, and not part of the joke we decided to do. It was not included to the cartoon's benefit. In closing, I'll say again: The business of music is no longer JUST the music business as we've been forced to know it for years. The distribution of music and other media (and the line between will be fuzzier all the time) is still in development. And, while some ideas gleaned from an infinitesimal market share computer base will no doubt be utilized in some form in the future, iTunes is NOT the first of its kind, nor will it be the last. As a final aside, contact your state representatives and ask them to strike down the current efforts by the RIAA to make it okay to drive competition out of business via their so-called "Super DMCA". Colorado's governor had the guts to declare it an endangerment to free speech on a variety of levels. Let's also try to keep the Big Five from destroying the independent music business worldwide, while pretending that we're all stealing from them. Sorry bout the length. It's not a simple issue. Steve Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - Music and the Free Loop of the Week! http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack - Cartoons via Medialine! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 00:50:28 -0500 From: Don Hosek Subject: Re: DGM and iTunes > They >could spend a little extra to become featured artist >on the home page. (this tactic worked well with little >known electronica band Fischer-Spooner who sold more >copies of their downloads than they sold >conventionally). Actually, no, they can't. Featured artist placement is not for sale. It's determined by the Apple editorial staff independently. That said, I would hope that DGM does get into the game. It looks like a great deal for listeners and producers alike. -dh -- Don Hosek, bassist http://don.dream-in-color.net/ Dream in Color - http://www.dream-in-color.net/ http://www.mp3.com/DreamInColor/ 312/498-9727 don at dream-in-color dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:51:03 -0500 From: "Buzz Fenner" Subject: More 2x Drummers Two more to add to the list: 1) The original 38 Special, and 2) a short-lived outfit called Leblanc & Carr (back in the 70's). Buzz Fenner mailto:bfenner at bscn dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:20:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Edgar Kausel E." Subject: Fripp solos: Exiles An underrated but beautiful solo is the studio Exiles's one in LTIA, in the last section before the final arpegios. I dropped some tears the first time I listened to it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 20:21:21 -0700 From: "Raleigh Kirschman" Subject: Fripp Solos Just my two cents' worth... One of my favorites is from Eno, Another Green World... I'll Come Running...a compact solo, well-defined, just the right contrast to Eno's everything-but-the-kitchen-sink sound. Some of Mr. Fripp's work with Van Der Graaf is worth note, too, from H to He, e. g. Other favorites: Night Watch, 21st Century Schizoid Man, all Larks' Tongues sections, Starless Lastly, am I the only one who finds In the Wake of Poseidon a mostly under-powered recycling of ideas from In the Court? Cheers, Rali http://Game.37.com/ <--- Free Games http://newJoke.com/ <--- J O K E S ! ! ! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:34:10 +0400 From: =?koi8-r?Q?=22?=Vladimir Kalnitsky" Subject: The King Crimson Barber Shop Hi ETers! I'll be very pleased for the lyrics of "The King Crimson Barber Shop" from "The Abbreviated King Crimson: Heartbeat". Welcome to "The Russificated King Crimson" site. Our new address is: http://indoorgames.boom.ru . Best regards, Vladimir Kalnitsky vlad_kalnitsky at mail dot ru ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 01:59:29 -0400 (EDT) From: thedukeofprunes at webtv dot net (Mike Worden) Subject: Re: Great Fripp Solos / Meeting Mr. Belew My personal favorite Fripp solos have to be "Frakctured" (from TCOL). Absolutely awesome and furious. "The Night Watch" (beautiful solo there, one of his best). And finally, "The Sailor's Tale" (absolutely brillant, brings jazz-fusion up a notch). How about a "Great Belew Solos" thread? The man has such a impressive resume that would make any guitarist drool. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Belew backstage after one of his shows in 1999. I walked up to him and said, "You are the yoda of all guitarists." He cracked up and said, "That's a unique way of putting it," and guzzled down his beer. Very cool man. http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/ ALLTHINGSCRIM http://community.webtv.net/thedukeofprunes/THEWORLDACCORDINGTO ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 13:03:12 +0200 (CEST) From: kirkpatrick rod Subject: K.C - The Power to Believe The latest disc by King Crimson "The Power to Believe" gives me the Power to Say that it is their best studio recording to date and I would just like to thank them for their endeavour and hard work. I'm looking forward to the show they will give at the Palais des Congres in Paris where I shall have the oppourtunity of seeing them for the fourth time since 1982. Once again - Bravo! Rod Kirkpatrick France Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:46:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Gerard York Subject: Non-Crimson Belew Hi, Gang: What can I say? I'm a slow learner. I am just starting to dig into non-Crimson Belew: I recently bought Frank Zappa's "Sheik Yerbouti" and "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore, Parts 1 & 6." Any suggestions for the next stop are deeply appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:21:24 +0200 (CEST) From: Georges-Thierry SANTANA Subject: Erratum: King Crimson in Genoa 21/06/03 Sorry: j'avais oublie ProzaKc Blues ; la fatigue des 600 kms pour assister au concert peut-etre .... Intro: Soundscapes (Robert) The Power To Believe A.C. Level Five ProzaKc Blues The ConstruKction Of Light Facts Of Life EleKtriK Power Circle Dinosaur One Time Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With Dangerous Curves Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part IV Encores 1: Deception Of The Thrush (Pat, Robert, Trey) Three Of A Perfect Pair (Adrian) Elephant Talk Encores 2: Frame By Frame Red Ce fut merveilleux ... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:09:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Georges-Thierry SANTANA Subject: GIG REVIEW: King Crimson in Genoa 23/06/2003 Track list: Intro: Soundscapes (Robert) The Power To Believe A.C. Level Five The ConstruKction Of Light Facts Of Life EleKctriK Power Circle Dinosaur One Time Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With Dangerous Curves Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part IV Encores: Deception Of The Thrush (Pat, Robert, Trey) Three Of A Perfect Pair (Adrian) Elephant Talk Frame By Frame Red ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:24:50 +0200 From: "Galli Danilo" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Rome 24/6/2003 gig I saw Kc in Rome yesterday.Fantastic gig.The setlist was the same of the last reported in ET ,with an incredible TOAPP performed acoustic by Adrian as an encore and Red as the last number.Mastelotto did a superb job (with two or three broken sticks...).Mr Fripp as usual was in a world of His own...6 years later the Double Trio has broken but what remains is still the best around....Danilo ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1132 *********************************