Elephant Talk #1129 (as text)

5 June 2003

Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 02:54:20 EDT
From: DanKirkd at aol dot com
Subject: Looking for a new Webmaster for ET Web

To All ETers,

8 years ago I asked Toby if I could help him with his nascent Web site supporting the ET newsletter that was already close to 4 years old by then. I had only recently discovered the newsletter and had gotten it in my mind that I would try to index every topic of discussion up until that point. At that time there were fewer than 200 issues to go through. It wasn't long before I realized just what I was getting myself into! Although the topic index died a quiet death, the Web site grew, and grew, and grew, in no small part due to the constant influx of ETer reviews, interviews, and other content submissions, some of which I still have to get to! Other sites came and went, some became close partner sites, and a community of King Crimson and Robert Fripp enthusiasts built a home they could come back to again and again. I'm glad I was able to be a part of that.

However, today, over 2 million hit counts later, I have decided it is time for me to hang up my hat, to move on and let go, and to find other ways to spend my "free" time. It has been a fun 8 years, but the site needs new blood and fresh enthusiasm, and I'm sure someone out there can rise to the challenge and work with Toby and Mike to move it forward. In an effort to make this a clean break all around, I will also be stepping down as Webmaster of DGM Web and the Official King Crimson site - sites I have greatly enjoyed working on over the past 4+ years, but that have taken a considerable amount of my time to develop and support.

So this is a call to ETers asking for a volunteer to be the new ET Webmaster.

ET Web opened up doors for me and gave me the chance to gain experiences I may never otherwise have had. I suspect that the open future will hold similar new opportunities for me. I also believe that the new ET Webmaster will find that the role will provide him or her with the unique opportunity of running one of the premier and best regarded fans sites on the Web. This isn't a small endeavor, but it can be a rewarding one, and Mike and Toby are great company to partner with. I'll stick around and help as long as I am needed, to show my successor the nooks and crannies, and to ensure the transition is smooth. So give it some thought, and if you think you have the time, the skills and enthusiasm for the role, send me an email and we'll discuss things further.

Meanwhile, I just want to thank Everyone who I have worked with on the site, engaged with regarding ET Web and matters Crim, and who have helped me along the way. But most of all I want to thank Mike and Toby who keep this thing going. It has been a lot of fun and I wish you both all the best. Call on me if you ever need anything.

Cheers to all!

ET Webmaster

Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:29:26 +0200
From: "Redazione Tkts" <redazione at tkts dot it>
Subject: king crimson's concert in Italy

Dear webmaster,

we would like to inform you that we are selling on our website Easytickets www.tkts.it (obviously on authorization by the italian organizer) the tickets for King Crimson's show in Milano and Ferrara, Italy (20-28/06/03).

We thought that it would be great if you could put a link from the notice of the concert on your web to our web for the presale information.


Please don't hesitate to contact us for further informations.

Best regards,


redazione at tkts dot it

Redazione Easy TicKeTS

Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:20:10 EDT
From: GORTAY at aol dot com
Subject: Ambient

In ET 1128 Anton says "And don't forget that the first ambient recording ever made was (No Pussyfooting) by Fripp and Eno".

First of all, don't start sentences with conjunctions.

Secondly, much as I love 'No Pussyfooting' it would be ridiculous to claim that it was the first ambient recording. The term is supposed to be have coined by Eno as related on the sleeve notes to 'Discrete Music", although I have an idea that someone else had already used it. He applied it to music that was just above the threshold of hearing and thus became part of the aural landscape along with traffic sounds, conversations from the next room etc. I.e it was partof the ambience. In this context Spinal Tap could be ambient if they turned their amps down from 11 to 1.

There have been other albums that utilised the ambient acoustics of an out-of-studio recording environment. The most well known of these is probably Paul Horn's 'Inside' series from 1969 onwards recorded inside the Taj Mahal and the Great Pyramid. I would also suggest the second side of Beaver and Krause's Ghandarva which was recorded inside an American cathedral. At the end of the piece the music is allowed to fade away to leave the ambient sounds of the cathedral too complete the album. I can't remember which cathedral or which year it came out as I have misplaced my copy but Im pretty sure it preceded 'No Pussyfooting'.

Most music termed 'ambient' these days isn't really ambient in either of the above senses. Instead, it began as a sub -genre of house/techno which was developed for chill out rooms at clubs. The main charateristic is just a low bpm count. I think Paul Oakenfold said that 87bpm was the threshold. The pioneers of this genre sampled or copied people such as Eno and Tomita as the form gradually became detached from its origins to stand alone. But there are clear references to earlier forms such as Systems music and Serialism composition and people such as Phili Glass and Terry Riley who were working in teh 1960s are seen as early influences.

Finally, there is something else that ought to be mentioned. Muzak, the stuff that used to piped into lifts and department stores. It was designed to merge into the background and was the true ambient music of the 1950s and 60s.


Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:25:05 +0100
From: "phill lister" <phill dot lister at btinternet dot com>
Subject: Fripp solos

How about most influential solos? "No Pussyfooting" could have set the scene for trancey ambient sounds (due credit also to Eno). And "Fashion" must have influenced countless contemporary guitar noiseniks.

Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:01:31 +0000
From: "Dave Allen" <allen508 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: King Crimson DVD?

Why not have a 2 DVD set like the new Led Zeppelin one for 70s KC? Does this much footage exist (approx. 5 hrs)? If not, at least one disk of 70s stuff with one disk of 80s (the "Noise/3 of a PP" comp.?).

Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:01:07 +0100
From: "Alan Gent" <alan at alangent dot com>
Subject: No UK gigs

Excuse me, what's this "at least one London gig..."? At least one London gig and one in each of the major UK cities if you don't mind. i.e. Manchester, Birmingham, etc.

If KC can't be bothered to tour in the UK, I suspect I can't be bothered to buy any more albums....


Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:44:31 -0400
From: "David" <vze2ncsr at verizon dot net>


THE SCHIZOID BAND have just been announced as the opening act for YES at this years 'Route Of Kings Concerts' at London's Hyde Park on July 17th. Tickets and info available at www.routeofkings.co.uk

With YES and ROXY MUSIC on he bill, this looks like a real Crim-ConneKction.

Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 19:34:26 +0100
From: "bjason" <gb004d8690 at blueyonder dot co dot uk>
Subject: Trying to find Neil Corkindale

Hi everyone

I'm trying to locate Neil Corkingdale. If anyone can contact him can you please ask him to mail Jason at bjason at blueyonder dot co dot uk.



Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:42:10 -0500
From: "Mike Champagne" <mchampagne at milnor dot com>
Subject: Review(s) of Ian Wallace's new CD

I started out writing a review of Ian Wallace's new CD back in April when I first got a copy. Over the last few months, for various reasons which I will not delve into here, I got sidetracked and forgot all about it. Having put said review through a number of revisions already (before forgetting about it) I have decided to just let it go and post them for your reading enjoyment (or not).

Therefore, with no further ado, you get three reviews, actually: the short version, the proper-length version, and the long version.

First, the short version:

Happiness with minimal side effects
Ian Wallace (labmix LM01)

This CD is really nice; you should buy it.

Now, the 'proper-length' version:

Happiness with minimal side effects
Ian Wallace (labmix LM01)

Even though he made his official vocal debut over thirty years ago singing backup vocals on 'Ladies of the Road' as a member of King Crimson, and has occasionally filled such a role since that time, most notably as a member of David Lindley's El Rayo-X in the early 1980's, Ian Wallace isn't a name that would be likely to spring to mind when one considers vocal talents worthy of mention. So it is a surprise, in fact ultimately quite a pleasant one, that Wallace provides the vocals for every track on his first solo offering proper, "Happiness with minimal side effects," having also composed all of the music and lyrics as well. The opening track, "Too Much Dogma" rightfully takes organized religion to task for having placed more emphasis on organization than on religion, and Wallace sings with the courage of his convictions. This is by no means a one-off by someone who lazily sings in the shower on occasion. But Wallace can deliver the goods in dulcet tones as well; in fact, two ballads on the CD, "Castaway" and "The Spotlight" showcase the sheer beauty of his voice quite nicely.

Of course, he still does play the drums, and this CD showcases his broad range of abilities thereon as well, from the heavy-handed (and footed) swagger of "I Can't Breathe" through the blue-eyed soul of "Bad Boy" to the adventurous funk and smooth groove of "Dis Traction/Pilgrim's Progress," and including all points in between. Those who know of Wallace's fondness for playing with brushes won't be disappointed either: the gorgeous ballad "The Spotlight" is for me one of the highlights of this set. But it doesn't stop there: in the last thirty-plus years as a professional musician the intrepid Wallace has acquired the ability to punch out a tune on the keyboard as well. After staying behind in the states after the 1971-72 incarnation of King Crimson completed a US tour to which they were led to believe they were contractually obligated to fulfill, Wallace has quietly made a name for himself playing with such talents as diverse as Neil Innes, electric blues legend Alexis Korner, and unlikely superstar Roy Orbison, not to mention working extended tours with Bob Dylan, noted perfectionist Don Henley, and . . . you know what, this is going to take a while; I'll let you co check out his C.V. on his website. There's just not enough room for it all here. Trust me on this.

At any rate, having lived and worked in Los Angeles, Santa Fe, and now Nashville, his home of the last five years, Wallace has apparently been paying quiet attention to everything happening within 100 yards of his drum stool, in and out of the studio. He provides all keyboard instrumentation on this disc and, I can assure you, sounds infinitely more accomplished in that role than most keyboard artists would sound behind a drum kit. Despite the ability to play the guitar as well, he has enlisted some top-flight friends in the Nashville area to provide bass, guitar, and sax when the arrangements (also by Wallace, natch) call for it, and they're no slouches either. Also making appearances are drummer Pat Mastelotto, one-fourth of the current King Crimson, and the redoubtable Ian McDonald from the original 1969 group, who adds some truly delectable flute parts to two cuts. In fact, Wallace recently finished up an Eastern European tour with the 21st Century Schizoid Band, of which McDonald is also a member, which is comprised of former members of early King Crimson incarnations who have come together to play music from those early KC years that is still 'struggling to be heard" to use founding guitarist Robert Fripp's terminology.

So, all in all, this is a thoroughly satisfying journey through Ian Wallace's myriad musical abilities, including engineering and production which I can tell you from personal experience aren't quite as easy as some would lead you to believe, particularly vocal arrangements and production. To be honest, there are a few spots where a few more takes on the vocals may have yielded better takes, but these are far outnumbered by those times when he just nails it. A tour de force by someone who has paid his dues that deserves to be heard.


And, now the long version:

Happiness with minimal side effects
Ian Wallace (labmix LM01)

First solo release proper by drummer, raconteur, and bon vivant Ian Wallace, late of Merrie England and current percussive propulsion unit of the 21st Century Schizoid Band. Here is what you get, song by song:

Too Much Dogma - A treatise on organized religion. Strong, confident vocals. Lyrical content reminds me of title track from George Harrison's "Brainwashed' - very different of course, but similar as well. Chorus vocals are very Beatle-y - very nicely done. Verse vocals remind me of someone, but who? Outro reminiscent of early King Crimson song forms: juxtaposition of mellotron-like keyboard patch over military snare figure.

Castaway - my, what a lovely voice! Really! Now I know, strangely enough, it reminds me of Neil Innes, with/for whom Ian drummed in the very early 1970's. Strange since Ian just visited with Neil while in England a few months ago in preparation for the 21CSB dates in Russia & elsewhere. Intro and outro to this tune are both real finger-poppin' stuff. Drumwork all through this, vocal and instr. sections, is very nice.

I can't breathe - Funny stuff - death by advertising. Nice monologue at end makes me think of Innes again. Bass drum figure in verses is nice. Nice slide work @ end - quite a contrast to the other guitar in this song.

Bad Boy - very polished - very nice. Nice groove. A few nearly flat notes on the vox, but not particularly horrendous. Understated keyboards here make me think of Benmont Tench, in that they blend into the whole fabric of the tune, are crucial to it, but don't 'stand out' per se. Nice arrangement.

Captain of Industry - more shades of Innes in the vocals - nice keyboard and drum patterns against vocal melody. Chorus strangely reminds me of the style of some of Innes' "Rutles" tunes.

The Spotlight - OK, I knew he had to play with brushes sooner or later! Just the right amount of echo on the vocals. Nice arrangement. Keys nicely done. Lyrics are also very nice. Gorgeous flute work by Ian M. Not so sure about the guitar solo - goes nowhere. But the vocals and the arrangement in general are really wonderful.

Pilgrims Progress - Interesting intro, oddly reminiscent of Dave Greenslade - synthetic horns fit nicely - keyboard work is *superb* throughout this. Vocals sound a little like Jon Anderson in a few spots, and very confidently so. This sounds really nice. Very polished execution of everything here, vocal line very nice.

Are those some sort of Buddhist ceremonial cymbals at the beginning and end of the CD? They obviously bracket the whole set of songs.

Immediately, the overall standout tunes for me are "Castaway", "The Spotlight", and "Pilgrim's Progress". The sound is really good and crisp throughout. Who needs a 'real' studio, anyway?

Songwriting in general is polished; lyrical content is well-crafted as well - nothing so obtuse as early Crimso and nothing so banal as 'Oooh baby' stuff - just right! Keyboard musicianship is superb - perfectly understated in all arrangements except perhaps the first tune.

This does *not* sound like a "Drummer's solo album" by any means.

Packaging is very nicely done. Color juxtaposition is reminiscent of George Harrison's swan-song as well. Ian's rose-colored glasses are neat . . . is this a comment on how he sees the world, how he sometimes wishes we could all try and see the world, how he sometimes wishes he didn't see the world, or . . . ? I honestly only pose this potentially presumptuous question because they are so obviously 'enhanced' as opposed to the pix on the website, so it makes me wonder 'Why?' Perhaps I'm obsessing over this.

All in all, a very listenable collection of songs. Well done!


So there you have it. I think you should run out and get your very own copy as quickly as you can; it really is worth having a copy.

And now I shall crawl back under the rock from whence I have come . . .

Mike Champagne

Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:46:41 +0400
From: "Vladimir Kalnitsky" <vlad_kalnitsky at mail dot ru>
Subject: Interview with Pat Mastelotto

Hello everybody! I want to present you the e-mail interview given to me by Pat Mastelotto. It's translation was published some days ago in the June number of the Saint Petersburg (Russia) magazine "100% KRASNY" (or in English "100% RED" - not a bad name, isn't it?). You can also find the Russian version by visiting my site "IndoorGames - The Russificated King Crimson" - http://indoorgames.boom.ru .

Best regards,
Vladimir Kalnitsky

Interview with Pat Mastelotto

V.K.: Maybe it will be a discovery for you, but there are a lot of old and devoted King Crimson's admirers in Russia. Why haven't you come here for so long time, and what has influenced your decision to include Saint Petersburg and Moscow in the European tour 2003?

P.M.: I am not surprised to learn there may be many "old and devoted King Crimson fans in Russia". Why haven't we come here for so long time? I don't make that decision but my hunch is there are many reasons KC has not been to Russia for so long (has KC ever been there?). One reason might be the "old and devoted King Crimson's admirers", another reason is the great distance and expense of getting there, unreliable promoters, etc. Its certainly not just Russia, Crim haven't accepted offers to Australia, Chile or Hawaii either. Why now? Why not. Things change.

V.K.: Is Russian rock-scene familiar to you to some extent, or you know our musical culture by classical specimens only?

P.M.: Sorry the Russian rock scene is very unfamiliar to me, I know very very little but am excited to embrace it (please recommend). Perhaps I do best know best your classic specimens and while i won't pretend to know them intimately I do feel they have had a strong influence on my being.

V.K.: I think that not everyone understand the meaning of the name King Crimson. There is a version that it is a pseudonym for Beelzebub, created by Peter Sinfield. Is it so? Maybe now the name has acquires a new meaning?

P.M.: It is so. I certainly agree not everyone understands the meaning of this name, and yes I have heard the story of Sinfield's Beelzebub and a few other meanings. To me its a name, a name of a cheerfully mysterious and powerfully collaborative musical occurrence.

V.K.: From it's creation in 1969, the group has passed through six incarnations. Now only Robert Fripp remains from the initial staff. Does it mean that Mr. Fripp sole, as a tradition keeper, is King Crimson?

P.M.: A tradition keeper for an outfit that bucks tradition+ You are correct Robert is the initial staff and carries his traditions deeply but that does not imply he IS King Crimson, in fact we have felt the King descend at times even when Robert has left the building+ maybe that's Roberts spirit lurking?+ Clearly Robert is the leader but he is a reluctant one, so within the band we refer to Robert (and David Singleton) as "CQC", crim quality control.

V.K.: One knows the phrase of Robert Fripp that "King Crimson is, as always, more a way of doing things". How can you describe this "way of doing" from your point of view?

P.M.: From my point of view its means "pushing while letting go".

V.K.: Mr. Fripp also said, that "when music appears, which only King Crimson can play then, sooner or later, King Crimson appears to play the music". What, in your opinion, define the music of the 21st century King Crimson?

P.M.: Define the music of the 21st century King Crimson? Pullezzz+ I think the audience defines this. sometimes the press define it or try to define it for the audience, sometimes the record company tries to define, package or repackage it+ but when the dust clears its a one to one vibration+ did the music resonate or not.

V.K.: What is the reason of your special love to Japan? First hand new and exclusive Collectors' Club's editions, regular tours, "Matte Kudasai"+

P.M.: Many many reasons to love Japan but certainly not any of those choices!! Its the people, the culture, the spirits. I can share with you that Adrian and I have spoken about this - we had both gone to Japan many times before being crims and both fell head over heels in love with Japan from the first breath+ In fact we both had an instant hunger to move west and live in Japan.

V.K.: How do you create new material, what are you departing from?

P.M.: We depart in many different ways: jamming-sometimes its like a musical conversation with relevance and we latch onto the meaningful moments. Improvisation - sometimes its just arrives when we aren't trying. Pencil frenzy - often Robert sits with his guitar and pencil and tries to turn off this world and tune into his. Words that start with Belew - sometimes a bit of banter is all you need to begin. Rhythm and sound - sometime a cadence or groove will start to shake ideas from the tree+ Sometimes a bubble of sound or slab of silence can make a muse with an attitude appear. Coffee & cake - caffeine & sugar almost always seem to help. Projeckting - go onstage with no plan and something will happen.

V.K.: Let me into a secret, how the unbelievable associative chains, such as "the world's my oyster soup kitchen floor wax museum", appear in Adrian's mind?

P.M.: Zzeee secret? Boris? Sssshhhh+ Ade is a nut for words (he is a very good traveling companion especially after a jack & coke (with ice please))+ {he recently greeted a seated dinner venue audience with "good evening my fine fatted and fettered friends"}.

V.K.: All members of King Crimson are always involved in different personal musical projects. What are this projects now, and do they prevent or favor the development of the group?

P.M.: They favor the development since we need a release for that which may not pass Crimson quality control standards (not to be confused with a scale of good or bad qualities). In the Crimson I know we all give Crim top priority for the, all to brief, time periods made available together. Projects now? Well Adrian has a retrospective compilation about ready for release and a new power trio recording with Les Claypool and Danny Carry also near completion. I have started an on going collaboration with Terry Bozzio and we already have a CD out and a DVD in the works from our sold out debut show last January. I also have a an electronica alter ego duo project called BPM&M using samples from Fripp and other crims (what Tony Levin called the best KC in years). Speaking of Tony Levin at times I also get to work with Tony Levin and the California Guitar Trio and we recently put a record out called CG3+2, and I have my humble Austin trio called MasticA to fiddle with. Robert has so! mething brewing with David Singleton and ongoing relationships with Eno and assorted crafties that may or may not result in music for the public. And Trey+ Well Trey has a few things underwraps but the one project I can tell you about is TU. TU is Trey and I - Immediately after mixing TPTB record Trey and I went into a Seattle studio to vent left over ideas (you can taste a TU hotel experiment here http://homepage.mac.com/billie_/iMovieTheater33.html ). Long range plans for TU involve pairing up with other like minded experimental duos as "TU plus Two", the first planned collaboration is with our freaky Finnlandish friends from Kluster March 2004.

V.K.: How can a Russian musician enter the "Guitar Craft" academy of Mr. Fripp?

P.M.: I am sure for a fee a Russian musician can join this academy, best ask Robert or his crafty colleges+ perhaps start here - http://www.guitarcraft.com/ .

V.K.: How do you spend your free time, of course if you have any?

P.M.: We use that time like most folks - reading / cleaning / gardening / searching / learning / loveing / cleaning / organising / practicing / writting / hugging / watchingmovies / tv / driving / cleaning / bookkeeeping / billpaying / birdwatching / childwatching /seldm mtv watching /dog washing / computer hacking / cleaning & organizing / resting /testing / websurfing / gear tweaking / enjoying life and family+ did I mention cleaning and organizing?

V.K.: On March 12, 2003 in Saint Petersburg took place a concert of the 21st Century Schizoid Band - four members of which represent King Crimson' early staffs. Is it possible, even on this basis, to consider this group as one of the Crimson King's incarnations?

P.M.: Of course it is!! at least for me. I'll even predict those "old and devoted King Crimson's admirers in Russia" may prefer their setlist.

V.K.: I am sure that a lot of "veterans" will sell a soul to Beelzebub just to see the concert of the exact King Crimson, which shocked their imagination more than 30 years ago. I understand that it is impossible to step twice into the same river, but maybe you know something about the plans to reanimate the first incarnation, even for the only performance?

P.M.: No sorry but I know of no such plans.

V.K.: What do you want to wish all Russian Crimheads that are awaiting your coming?

P.M.: I wish them joy. I wish they not wait so hard as to be disappointed. I wish they had a time machine to experience the past or future crim they desire+ But as that seems impossible I wish them to arrive to our crim experiences with no expectations.

V.K.: Thank you very much for the answers, and see you soon in Saint Petersburg!

P.M.: You're very welcome and I very much am looking forward to breathing Russian. Baboom and by by.

Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:23:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: jhusak at csulb dot edu (Jonathan Husak)
Subject: my takes on excellent fripp solos

my suggestions:

and never more does he fully capture his potential than in...

enjoy, jh

Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 09:45:51 +0000
From: "Tore Jamne" <torejamne at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Who said that KC never plays encores?

I've just come home from the KC performance in Bergen, Norway. What an experience! Excellent playing, fairly good sound, nice crowd. It's a bit strange, because although the music can be described as " dark" a lot of the time, the general vibe in the room was very positive and uplifting. At least that's what I felt. There were, as far as I can remember, no violations of the photo ban. The absense of smoke was also a relief. And KC even played encores! This is the first time I've heard new material live before I hear the cd. I deliberately avoided listening to TPTB before the concert. Now I'll get a copy.

To me, this performance was more than a "trial run", as Belew called it. Sometimes the music made me fly.

So thanks to KC for an unforgettable experience!

Good wishes from

Tore Jamne

Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:16:45 +0200
From: DURET Fabien <fabien dot duret at irsn dot fr>
Subject: Re: Electronica ----> Richard Pinhas

Anton Mochalin wrote : "I am also trying to write computer-based music but found much more fun to mix it with guitar playing (idea stolen from KC, you understand)"

I have to say that the first composer who based his music on mixing electronics and frippian guitar is Richard Pinhas, a french philosopher, composer and sci-fi fan. He is fan of Fripp and plays guitar very similarly (both solos and soundscapes), and has mixed it with different forms of electronic or repetitive music (tangerine dream, klaus schulze, Terry Riley, Philip Glass...) since the 70s. First he formed a band called Heldon. It sometimes had drummers whose play was close to a mix of Pat Mastelotto (of course with less technology)and N.M. Walden (Mahavishnu), which led to some pieces quite projekct-like but with synthesiser sounds of the 70s. He also made mellotronic strong pieces close to "the devil's triangle" or "Red"-like rock pieces.

Recently, he studied and wrote about the existing links between a particular philosophical tradition (Spinoza, Nietszche, Deleuze...) and some composers among which Bach, Fripp, Autechre, Edgar Froese (Tangerine Dream)... He considers Fripp as a "metatechno" musician (that means, the music on "1999", for example, isn't based on computer loops or samplers, or generally machines, but on the movements of the electrons themselves, as used by the frippertronics).

In 2002, he made a metatechno album "event and repetitions", which is very very similar to Fripp's "1999", but using Frippertronics instead of soundscapes. Hypnotic...

I recommend Heldon and Richard Pinhas to all those who like Fripp, and especially to those who, such as me, like at once KC, Fripp, repetitive music and electronic music from the 70s. Interest in Nietszchian philosophy is one more reason to discover him.


Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:36:46 -0400
From: Kevin Holm-Hudson <kjholm2 at pop dot uky dot edu>
Subject: twin drummers and other quadrupeds

Paul Welsh writes,

>But the real deal came with the double trio. I'm
>not american but even a brit has to call the drum attack on those albums
>"awesome". Is that the first time two drummers have been used consecutively
>since Hawkwind's "Warrior on the Edge of Time"?  Does anyone out there play
>in a two kit (as opposed to kit and percussion) band?

How about the Grateful Dead? or the Allman Brothers? Chronologically, I'm pretty sure the Dead came first. Does anyone know of any jazz combos that used two drummers prior to the Dead?

As for why Bruford left the double trio, I remember hearing somewhere that it was because he found the new material to be too "cold," especially using V-drums. It wouldn't be the first time Bruford and Fripp came to disagreements over what/how he should play...


Kevin Holm-Hudson


Kevin Holm-Hudson
Assistant Professor of Music Theory
University of Kentucky
105 Fine Arts Building
Lexington, KY 40506-0022
<kjholm2 at pop dot uky dot edu>

Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:09:25 -0500
From: Scott Ranalli <sranalli at appliedearth dot com>
Subject: Great Fripp Solos

Here are some other entries for the great solos list: "Evening Star" (Fripp & Eno from the album by the same name) "White Shadow" (Peter Gabriel's second(?) solo album -- where he's scratching the air on the cover) "Don't Blame It on Love" (Hall & Oates)

While I'm on the subject, Along the Red Ledge is an overlooked, but awesome album by H&O --- certainly the least "pop" of their efforts. I haven't heard anyone talk about it in the newsletter. It was recorded some time before Sacred Songs and about the same time as Exposure (you'll hear a familiar Frippertronics/hammer-on trill sort of thing at the beginning of the song). Robert has some other juicy parts on the album. While it doesn't feature Robert, the song "Serious Music" is (I think) John Oates' response to RF's musical methods and philosophies. There are other guest stars on the album like Rick Nielson (Cheap Trick), Steve Lukather (Steely Dan, Boz Scaggs), Toots Thielman, and George Harrison (he was in some 60s band whose name escapes me right now ;-)

Scott from the Big Onion

Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:34:15 +0200
From: "umberto f" <umberto dot f at email dot it>
Subject: Re: I I Talk to the wind chords
> From: Andy Macdonald
> My way of playing 'I Talk to the wind': [....]

This is how I 'hear' it:

 E                          Cmaj7                Gmaj7
F#m7sus4  B7/4 - B7
Said the straight man to the late man, "Where have you been?"

E                          Cmaj7                    Gmaj7         F#m7sus4
B7/4 - B7
"I've been here and I've been there, and I've been in between."

E         Bm7        E               Bm7                       E
I talk to the wind, my words are all carried away, I talk to the wind,

 Am7                   Bm7   Am7                 B 7
The wind does not hear, the wind cannot hear.



Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:31:43 EDT
From: KingWumpus at aol dot com
Subject: Re: rock percussion
> A little well placed aggression never goes amiss in quality rock. Kc
> recordings seem to run the percussion gamut. In t he early days their
> studio efforts suffered from a lack of "edge" whereas now it is an
> inherent feature of mixing desk recordings. Who would have thought that
> the mark 3 line up could rock so hard if the only evidence were the
> Islands album, but recent live releases of that band approach the
> intensity and sheer ballsiness of the Bruford/Wetton line-up. But the
> real deal came with the double trio. I'm not american but even a brit has
> to call the drum attack on those albums "awesome". Is that the first time
> two drummers have been used consecutively since Hawkwind's "Warrior on
> the Edge of Time"?  Does anyone out there pla in a two kit (as
> opposed to kit and percussion) band? Whilst I'm atit does anyonr know of
> the reasons behind the non-continuation of the double trio kc?

I don't really get the "two drummers... consecutively" bit... does that mean like having a period of overlap of two drummers, like '95 KC did? If it's simply having two guys on the kit, the first band that comes to mind are the Grateful Dead. Bill Kreutzmann and Mickey Hart (a.k.a. the Rhythm Devils) both handled the drums for that band for a good part of their career (late '60s to early '70s, then Hart left for a short time, and then they were back together from the mid '70s to 1995). If you ever get a chance (and especially if you're a "B'Boom" fan), listen to some of their drum duets (often marked "Drums" on the tracklisting). Intense...

About the double trio's breakup, there were apparently tensions and feuding going on, as well as the fact that the music did sound a bit cluttered at times. Bruford and Fripp, from what I've heard, couldn't stand each other since the mid-'70s. Bruford was given the boot about the time of the ProjeKcts when Fripp wanted to go electronic and didn't need no stinkin' jazz drumming (this was also about the time when Bruford got back into acoustic drums). Bruford also wanted to go play jazz in his own band, and didn't like the new electronica direction Crimson were going in. So he left and formed Earthworks, leaving Pat as the sole drummer.

I'm not too sure the story about TL... I think he was off on a solo project or in a collaboration when Crimson were reformed, and he was perfectly happy doing whatever he was doing. In interviews, he says he still considers himself a King Crimson member, albiet a dormant one. The "young blood" aspect also might come in here, as well as Crimson's new direction which suits the Warr guitar more than the conventional bass or stick.

That's the story as well as I know -- if I'm wrong, someone please correct me. Thanks a lot.

Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:06:55 EDT
From: MDJSocial at aol dot com
Subject: Rock Percussion

In a message dated 6/4/03 12:51:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes:

> From: "paul welsh" <paulw at gtr1 dot fsnet dot co dot uk>
> Subject: rock percussion
> But the real deal came with the double trio. I'm
> not american but even a brit has to call the drum attack on those albums
> "awesome". Is that the first time two drummers have been used consecutively
> since Hawkwind's "Warrior on the Edge of Time"?

Both The Allman Brothers and The Grateful Dead have from their inception used two drummers. It is worth noting that, in a _Modern Drummer_ interview at the inception of the Double Trio, Bruford made a statement to the effect "We will do everything we can to avoid sounding like said Allmans."

If you are not familiar with the Allmans or the Dead, indeed there were/are two drummers, but both play exactly the same note at exactly the same time on exactly the same instrument. Interesting visual effect. To my ears, does not do much for the music.

Closer to the Double Trio might be some of Ornette Coleman's work.

Whilst I'm atit does

> anyonr know of the reasons behind the non-continuation of the double trio
> kc?

Bill and Tony wanted to do other things musically.

My question has always been, concerning the double trio, why were the albums not mixed in such a way as to isolate groupings?

In the sixties and seventies, it was quite common to see recordings with the words "so and so is on the left speaker, thus and such is on the right." In the mid-eighties, on the album _Friday Night In San Francisco_, Mcglaughlin is listed a being on the right, Dimeola on the left, and Delucia on the center channel. So the technology was there.

I would have liked to have been able to isolate the double trios on their albums.

Michael Jeter

Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 00:04:44 -0600
From: SJ Hamilton <aosthanatos at comcast dot net>
Subject: Help required - looking for scores

For my own bizarre amusement, I'm looking for musical notation for several of KC's recent songs. I try to figure this stuff out on my own but my ears often deceive me! ANY help would be greatly appreciated - these are the songs I need help with: Elektrik, Level Five, CoL, Larks' IV, & Vrooom. I'm looking for standard notation rather than tabs.

Also, is there a BWV# for Chromatic Fantasy from the Robert Fripp String Quintet?

Again, ANY help is most appreciated - Thanks!!

Mike Stok