Elephant Talk #1125 (as text)

18 May 2003

Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:21:45 +0200
From: "lichtafee" <lichtafee at gmx dot de>
Subject: so many "best drummers"


Regarding the discussion about "who's the best drummer" - let me add some things from a probably different perspective. I also apprechiate most of the mentioned drummers, Steven made me even to listen to Virgil Donati (hi, Steven :o), and indeed he's impressing - but I say all this with certain reservations. The most impressive drummers that come to my mind first are Tony Oxley, Paul Lovens, Han Bennink, Gerry Hemingway & John Stevens - I guess unknown names to many ET-readers, so what's this? They all play free jazz/improvised music (and I think much more impressive than original free improvisor Jamie Muir). They all have a completely different approach than the drummers already mentioned in this discussion, but that of course doesn't mean Bonham, Donati & co. are better in any way. That would be a weird idea.

If you put ANY of the currently mentioned rock-drummers into the Spontaneous Music Ensemble or an ensemble of Cecil Taylor, Anthony Braxton, Alex Schlippenbach or Peter Brotzmann (all of which represent one band my favorit drummers played in), they would be completely helpless (as the free jazzers likely were, sitting on the drum-stool in King Crimson or the Mahavishnu Orchestra or Led Zeppelin). So is John Bonham better than Paul Lovens? I guess it's impossible to compare and to judge that way. The drummer best for the Ramones back in the late 70's was very likely the one they had at that time, so Dee Dee, Johnny and Joey surely thought: Tommy Ramone is the best drummer - for the Ramones' music! May Virgil Donati be the drummer playing the fastest double-bassdrum - his "alien" playing placed into the Ramones' music surely would have sounded completely overambitioned out of place (alien indeed)! (and he surely would have disqualified himself by refusing to join the chorus shouting "Gabba Gabba Hey") And the dilletantism of Maureen Tucker in the early Velvet Underground to a degree made that group's music what it is - very charming.

In the 80's Gunter Hampel's Galaxie Dream Band had a drummer named Hinnerk Boernsen. An involved hornplayer later joked around, that during the ten years he worked with Boernsen, the latter never (NEVER) managed to place two beats simultaneously - a bit exaggerated I guess, but this drummer indeed had a very personal idea of coordination and "time" (both hardly present in the usual sense when he played). But he had sensitivity for dynamics and sounds, and he had LOTS OF ENERGY in his playing. When I first heard Hampel's band live, I was thrilled and excited for days by the unbelievable rough power of that band! And this sheer energy to a very large degree came from the drummer, who pushed the horn players around, kicked ass and inspired weird stuff - all of which no perfectly trained, neatly playing & highly virtuos Berkeley-cat could ever achieve in that way. And the aforementioned hornplayer still admires that drummer like crazy - for his totally individual approach. So is Billy Cobham better than Boernsen? And aren't there some other colours next to black and white?

The best thing is: if we look for a drummer to play a composition by Brian Ferneyhough, Iannis Xenakis or some other contemporary composer: forget all drummers ever mentioned in ET, as likely none of those would get through some of these composer's more complex scores (or it would take them a whole day to go through a ten-minute-piece :o) So I guess Colaiuta, Oxley, Bonham, Donati, Boernsen and even Tommy Ramone might be "worthless" in this context and there are hords of classical trained drummers who in THIS case are much "better" than all of those.

Things would get even more complex if we'd also have a look on the dozens of fine jazz-drummers or master-drummers from Africa, India and many other places in the world, playing their folklore. Is Tony Oxley better than Alla Rahka (father & teacher of Zakir Hussain)?

So in a way I don't understand this discussion about the "best" drummer.

There are too many of them.
Greetings, Joerg

Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:52:56 +0100
From: "Alan Gent" <alan at alangent dot com>
Subject: FZ Cds

we had a similar thread to this on Zappa.com recently. My answer then to what CD you start with was (and still is) FZ plays FZ. This was the first posthumously produced album and consists of Franks best guitar solos played by him.

Say no more.


Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:53:46 -0500
From: "Craig" <vdorje at ev1 dot net>
Subject: Re: Re: Fripp zapped
> Zappa eventually also took a stance of never
> performing live again w/ a band.  Remember?

>>>Almost, but not entirely true.

Well,.... he took this stance, .....& stuck with it nearly to the end, (having 'had it' dealing w/ the various peccadillos of certain of his group members, & most especially with music unions, & greedy promoters).

>Although he never performed with a full band after the 1988 tour,
>shortly before his death, he intended to join with the Ensemble

Frank actually *did* 'perform' with Ensemble Modern. He conducted the performance of 3 pieces in concert in 1992

>and a group of "Zappa All-Stars" (ala p-funk) to do a tour.
>Unfortunately, he succumed
>to prostate cancer before it ever happened.

Yes, (despite his extremely pro-active anti-drug stance), no one could gulp down the black java, & chain smoke Lucky Strikes like Zappa. ....All that combined w/ his frightening dietary habits (burnt weeny sandwiches etc Read his auto-bio....), surely led to this health crisis.

Sad thing is prostate cancer is the most easily curable type.



Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:34:06 +0200
From: "Greg Dupuy" <gpdupuy at colby dot edu>
Subject: anyone going to KC in Milan?

Greetings, I live in Denmark but I want to see the KC show in Milan 20/6. I am having trouble contacting the theater there to order tickets. Is there anyone on the list that could help me? The show is at Teatro Smeraldo http://www.smeraldo.it/. When I dial the phone number on the site it will not work with my phone card, and the online ticket agency does not appear to offer international shipping. If anyone on ET can help me contact the box office there or would be willing to help me in the transaction I would be happy to offer a few drinks or some paypal in exchange.

Greg Dupuy

gpdupuy at colby dot edu

Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:15:38 -0500
From: "Marc Gonzalez" <MAgonzalez at ochsner dot org>
Subject: Dear Old Uncle Bobby

Happy B-Day Robert!

I think you need to treat yourself to a long overdue holiday! Maybe it is time for KC to end and hopefully history will repeat itself and Bobby and co. will reform when KC music demands to be played again.

Marc Gonzalez
IS Customer Service
Ochsner Foundation Clinic

Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 10:57:16 -0500
From: "Brothers, Michael (IA)" <Michael dot Brothers at ia dot ngb dot army dot mil>

I thought you would all like to know that I have it on the highest authority that Robert Fripp is NOT retiring from KC. As I was browsing his latest online journal entries, he stated that he visited a palmist while in Australia who gave him "good insight". Fortunately for you all, I have cracked the code as to what that really means. Through simple conjecture, extrapolation, and a dogged New York Times-like desire to uncover Truth, I have found out that what the palmist told him was that he was indeed in the wrong line of work. He should seek out a life as a carpenter! He must give up music for a while and focus on his new craft, but should stay in touch with his former band mates by redecorating their kitchens. The totally great news is that the palmist told him he should, in a couple of years, blend carpentry and KC together, and a new album will appear called 'The Power Saw to Bevel-ieve', which will expand on the themes from the current opus, overlayed with samples of hammer drills, table saws, and various curse words uttered by Mr. Fripp as he slammed a ball-peen into his thumb, because he's really not a very good carpenter.

I for one am happy to have the talk of retirement of behind us.

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:51:11 +0200
From: starless <starless at simail dot it>
Subject: Re: K.C. in Italy
>I 'm from germany and I will fly specially to Italy to see two King  Crimson
>shows,in Venice and in Firenze.Are there any K.C. fans from Italy ,who could
>help me to come to the shows ? My hotel is in Bologna and every help is
>welcome.I also want to see the cities of Firenze ,Bologna and Venice and if
>there are K.C. fans who can show me some things,it would be great. Thanks

Hello, long time lurker here :)

I'll go to the Milan, Verona and Venice show but I'm not yet sure if I'll make both of the last two: the venue in Venice is a big tent replacing the Fenice Theater and I fear for the acoustics. The other two are in a theater (Milan) and in an ancient roman arena (Verona, very cool!).

They're also listing shows in Ferrara (medieval castle), Turin and Genua (both theaters).

Any Crimson fan who is coming to North Italy feel free to contact me for info on the venues, accomodations, public transports etc.

If anybody is looking for tickets in Italy, just go to http://www.ticketone.it In the upper left corner there is a search field called "Ricerca", then just type "crimson".

See you!

- Mac OS for productivity. UNIX for stability. Palm OS for mobility.
Windows for solitaire.

Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:26:17 -0700
From: Shane Otis <shaneotis720 at netscape dot net>
Subject: Dangerous Curves

Is quite possibly my favorite track off the new album. I love the way it builds up slowly, somewhat reminiscing old Crim with the purpose, clarity and brute force of the new Crim.

This track reminds me of a relationship with a woman that I had that ended not too long ago. Inherent in the track is the passion of a relationship throughout. The kick drum (heartbeat) pounds louder and louder as the track (relationship) goes on. In the beginning it has all the mystery and intrigue of meeting a new woman whom you're really excited by. That feeling of moving. Going somewhere you really want to be. Around 1:48, when the sequenced bass line gets louder, it's as though you've moved into the territory of 'signifigant other'. She's my girlfriend now as such, we're no longer just dating. As the track goes on, it builds louder and louder in intensity. The rattling percussive sounds begin and the relationship heats up, hotter and hotter every day. At 3:03 when the scream comes in and Trey begins the magic bass line, that's around the time she told me she loves me. Again, the track (relationship) builds up hotter and hotter, higher and higher, we are - in love. At around 4:00, it cools down a bit. You can only heat up so much before you need to cool it down to regain that intensity. Around 4:10 the high hat begins, the intensity of the relationship is back on course. Building up again, higher and hotter than even before. God, I love this girl, she means the world to me. Around 5:06, Mr. Fripp begins his final ascent... Building up to the final hot phase. 5:24, the distorted chugging guitars come in. "Houston, we may have a problem". It's as though she's detaching and I'm about to spin down into a bottomless vortex. There's no turning back now! But my heart! How you mean the world to me, How I love you... Then... the music stops! Just as the relationship came to an abupt halt. At 5:41 - the dissonant chord! This is the moment she broke my heart. The dissonance reflects the pain in my heart. The lingering length of the chord cleverly and effectively illustrates the lingering torment of the supreme heartache of losing someone you love.

When I first heard this track, I was a bit taken aback by the ending. Hard to listen to, why end such a beautiful track on such a painful (bunch of) note(s)? Now, I know.

Shane Otis

Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:08:46 -0700
From: Eleftheria Yioras <ey270 at nyu dot edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Racism/Fripp's leaving re-thought a tad

Some random thoughts:

I've been reading ET for quite a while now, but the recent talk of racism/MTV/rap music has prompted me to share a few thoughts from someone that is actually a part of the demographic that some here have been talking about.

Unlike most on this list, I am 18 years old and a female. I love Crimson and have been a fan for about two years now. I also happen to love rap music. I feel like that recently my love of the latter has come under fire, not only from the utterly retarded racist post, but from others, as well. In the process, I think that there has been an underestimation and a miscalculation of my generation and lifestyle.

In his post in 1122, Steve Munari criticizes the idiocy of the "Stampdaddy" post, but also makes some ignorant comments about people in my age group:

>Just watch "The Tonight Show's" segment(s)of "Jaywalking' & you'll get a
>sad insight into todays youth. They can't answer the simplest questions on
>things like the U.S. Government, or identify photo's of past & present
>Presidents, or those of Castro or the Pope & identify them or look at say
>the Mona Lisa & be able to name it, 1000 other examples i've seen, & MOST
>were young people, some IN COLLEGE! Some people find "Jaywalking" or
>similair segments 'hilarious', I find them frightening...disturbing.

Does anyone really think that a skit on "The Tonight Show" truly represents the youth of today? That in itself completely ruins Mr. Munari's argument that kids my age are too influenced by the media because he himself is basing his post on a tv show!

>All the kid's today have their parents money to buy the cd's that MTV &
>it's counterparts in radio feed them 24 hours everyday. "Stampedaddy" did
>have some of the 'artists' names correctly, Brittney-Pink-Put the young
>'good looking' female singer's or talkers name here. Then
>Eminiem-Nelly-Limp Bizkit-50 cent-again put same names here. I detest the
>products that MTV makes billions on, and YES alot of them are BLACK! Is
>that a lie? It's a majority of Hip Hop, and Rap & Gangster Rap that gets
>ALL the airplay, male or female. Plus anything stupid
>sells. Fact. Anything that has to do with Sex sells! Fact. Otherwise why
>would there be so many MTV "Houseparty's" or MTV "Summer Break" specials,
>at least the poster didn't lie to everyone.

I am proud to say that I am student at NYU that can listen to music ranging from Crimson and Tool to 50 Cent and Nas (yes, I am from Queens, NY and listen to all the rappers from there, save for Ja Rule). Hip-hop culture is also an important feature in my life, as it sometimes influences my manner of dress, and it is also big in advancing my wanderings into spoken word nights in the village. In essence, just because I listen to rap music and am young means that I don't know jack about the US government...or Crimson, for that matter. It doesn't mean I scour the streets for drugs, hoping for some some mad bling-bling in my bank account so that I can buy some ice.

In general, while yes, there are incredibly stupid people like "Stampdaddy" around, judgments like these are also not very sage. Maybe when people wonder why younger kids like me don't usually listen to Crimson it is because they just assume that we are not interested in the band's music. A close-minded and judgmental attitude like that is just wrong.


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:40:59 +1000
From: Stephen Higgins <shiggins at sympac dot com dot au>
Subject: Book - The Music's all that Matters

Hi all

This may have been posted before but I just thought I'd mention it. Found a book on the History of Progressive Rock - The Music's all that Matters by Paul Stump.

Its a pretty good read although it does veer from the purely academic to the 'trying to be commercial' and so it reads a bit all over the place... Not unlike this post. I am tired sorry. Anyway. there is a lot about KC and Fripp, as well as much material on Pink Floyd, Yes, Gong, Gentle Giant and ELP. Some very interesting stuff.

Published by Quartet Books (UK) in 1998. isbn 0 7043 8036 6

Oh and i still wish KC or RF or anybody remoteley connected with either would tour Australia. You people up there in the northern hemisphere don't know how lucky you are.

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:01:00 -0400
From: "Brian Kelley" <karaokelley at earthlink dot net>
Subject: zappa albums

The two first Zappa albums I ever listened two were from two distinct eras:

"Roxy & Elsewhere" - 1973 (one of my all-time favs) esp. Pygmy Twylyte, Dummy Up, Echidna's Arf/DYEWTT, Cheepnis, etc. "We're Only In It For The Money" - 1968 (a sarcastic, yet hilarious ode to the Sgt. Pepper counterculture generation). Easily the funniest album I've ever heard in my life! Should almost be classified under "comedy" in the music store.

When I heard both these albums, although they were so different, they blew me away in their sheer genius and artistry. I had a very similar experience to this upon listening to Larks Tongues for my first time back in college. >From that moment on, I was a Crimsomaniac for life. With FZ, I was "ZAPPED" into a whole new dimension!

The great thing about Zappa is that he was so many things in one: excellent guitarist, songwriter, vocalist, producer, band and orchestra composer, filmmaker, satirist, spokesman against music censorship in the 80s, etc. FZ was definitely ahead of his time in studio techniques - even doing studio gimmickry years before even The Beatles and George Martin. What amazes me too is how he mocks the hippie generation just ONLY a year after Sgt. Pepper and The Summer of Love in '67 took place, making it into his own whimsical view and commentary on the counterculture. Even the doo-wop, with Ruben and the Jets - released only 8-10 years after that genre was discovered.

He would tackle on themes about current society trends and fads (ie. Absolutely Free, Disco Boy, Dancin' Fool, Be In My Video, The Meet Shall Inherit Nothing) and twist, contort, and wrap it into his own little comic burritos. But through all of the wackiness, there was a dense and serious side to the music. Only the cream of the crop musicans could play in Zappa's band. I mean, look at all the Zappa alumni that came through his camp over the years - George Duke, Ruth Underwood, Adrian - of course, Terry Bozzio, Tommy Mars, Chester Thompson, Steve Vai, just to name a few. And all of them are supremely awesome players. FZ was a strict disciplinarian and would not go for any slackness on any player's part, though he always endorsed goofing off every now and then, even occasionally during practice.

But he was an intense workaholic, who would stay up nights on end completing music scores, even writing all the parts for the brass and woodwinds for say, The Grand Wazoo. (Yes, he composed ALL of that!) One prerequisite I'm sure for becoming a member of FZ's band, aside from sheer musicianship, was you had to be pretty weird yourself. He made acting and reciting crazy lines and scripts a quintessential part of his live shows, making the text lead into or out of a story within a song. Or even a whole dialogue would consist as being a "song" or a "performance piece", if you will. Terry Bozzio as the devil in Titties & Beer is such an example. At a Zappa show, it wasn't just a concert, it was a comedy troupe, performance art, theatre, etc. Even a lucky member (or few) from the audience could participate in one of FZ's many stage antics, hence the term "audience participation".

If you ever want to witness one of the ultimate, most wacky of FZ concerts/performances, get a copy of Baby Snakes. It has been out of print for a long time, but there are several bootleg copies around. In fact, I swear I've heard that Gail Zappa is going to release it out on DVD in the near future. Baby Snakes was filmed on Halloween '77 at The Palladium in NYC. Coincidentally, this film features Adrian Belew as well as a "young, skinny drummer" named Terry Bozzio doing the most brutal, wild, totally SICK drum solos you've ever seen. It's the craziest thing I've ever seen on film. Well, THAT and 200 Motels. Oh yeah, the claymation in Baby Snakes shows the most bizarre and warped images ever.

The most amazing thing about FZ is that he hardly ever did drugs. There are many documented reports to back this up, and FZ himself swears he's smoked 10 joints in his life (and that was in the pre-Mothers days), but all they did was "make me tired and gave me a headache". He has never done hallucinogens, LSD, cocaine, heroin, etc. His main drugs of choice were coffee and cigarettes - and sausages! So it goes to show as well as that to appreciate FZ's music, you don't even have to be high to listen - though for some people, it can either enlighten their experience or make them wig-out on something as crazy as "Hot Poop/Nasal Retentive Calliope Music".

I would suggest anybody to read The Real Frank Zappa Book by FZ with Peter Occhiogrosso (Poseidon Press, New York, (C) 1989). It talks alot about his own musical influences and real-life experiences, many of which later became themes for his songs or compositions. There is at least two more Zappa biographies out there, but I can't think of their names.

But definitely - I put Zappa up there as one of my Top 5 musical influences of all-time, no question about it! King Crimson is within that Top 5, too! And also FZ, along with Fripp, are in my Top 10 favorite guitarists of all-time!!!! FZ played guitar unlike anybody I've ever seen - man, if only I had seen Zappa live, just once! I don't want to get into comparing Fripp to FZ because I'm sure their approaches to the instrument are different. Nonetheless, FZ and KC will always be among my favorites. I will never tire of them - ever!

On Zappa albums, my suggestion would be to get "Roxy & Elsewhere" (or even "Hot Rats", which is what a lot of people stem towards). From there, it is wide, open territory. I stem more for the 70's-era FZ, with "Chunga's Revenge", Fillmore East June 1971", "One Size Fits All", and of course "Roxy". And that doesn't include all the countless bootlegs that are out there, too!

Another must-have for the Zappa-uninitiated is "The Lost Episodes", featuring early Captain Beefheart takes with FZ - alot of them from the early 60's (pre-Mothers). They are classic, and some of the funniest moments ever recorded. And of course, "Bongo Fury" is a live show with FZ/Beefheart from '75. But as you listen to every album, try hard to listen to all the influences this man acquired over many years, incorporating them into his own unique style. He has played and composed more music than many musicians could do in 10 lifetimes!

Long live Zappa and his music!!!!!

Hoy, hoy, hoy!

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Jackson <proclaimation at yahoo dot com>
Subject: Re: Fripp's Retirement

I think Fripp would perfer teaching other musicians compare with touring. I never hear him complain about guitar craft. I think he should convert one of his rooms in his house to a studio, throw in some computers with recording software, and enjoy!

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 17:54:41 -0400
From: Lesajima at aol dot com
Subject: Blacks/Movies

In a message dated 5/15/2003 1:23:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk writes:

> 'Negroes used to be servants and Uncle Toms in the movies. But so much
> stink was raised until they quit that. Now you do have some Negroes playing
> feature parts - maybe four or five a year. Most of the time, they have a
> role that's special so it won't offend nobody - then it's a
> big production
> made like that picture is going to prove our democracy.

Something my wife pointed out(who is black) is that black guys in action films are killed off on a pretty regular basis if they aren't Morgan Freeman or a similar star. I started watching for this and damn if she isn't right. We laugh about it now as we watch movies. As soon as the generic black guy shows up we say he is going to get smoked.

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:36:24 EDT
From: Jjvince1 at aol dot com
Subject: et will continue

well at least rf and kc gave birth to et.......RF is the greatest guitarist of all times....KC the greatest band live or studio.......wish i would have caught the show at the pageant in stl steven(and ive been diggin fripp for 33 yrs) only saw them this year ..fripp will be back..and if not life goes on ...as for as racism it only excists if we let it...and mtv will always suck.....my band rules we will soon be shreddin the pageant....please send me to guitar craft in nov...stl etrs rule peace.....a begininng

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:52:06 EDT
From: Jjvince1 at aol dot com
Subject: coda

when there is King Crimson music to be played King Crimson appears

Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:18:41 -0500
From: "Theron Neel" <theron_neel at msn dot com>
Subject: Suggested First Frank Zappa Choices

I believe it's very easy to introduce someone to Frank Zappa's music (without scaring them). I've done it several times, so I have a method that has proven to be quite effective.

As we all know, FZ was a fan of many musics, and he wrote, recorded and released an extremely wide stylistic variety of music (all of it excellent, of course), ranging from avant-garde classical pieces to mocking parodies of popular bands to doo wop vocal rock & roll to hard rock instrumentals to funk to blues to atonal jazz/classical/rock fusion - the list is endless. But, although his compositions are all wonderful and important pieces of art, most people's taste in music is not broad enough to let them appreciate Frank's more "outside," experimental pieces of music - at least not at first. Using my above-mentioned method, I've assisted people who had hated any music that wasn't played on AM radio to become fans of all of FZ's music - be it Uncle Meat, the Dog Breath Variations or Valley Girl.

I suggest starting the person on Frank's more rock style music. The fact that his songs of this type usually have hilarious lyrics helps tremendously! Play Overnite Sensation for them. Then, Apostrophe followed by Roxy and Elsewhere. The music on these albums is, for the most part, of the rock genre, but it also has liberal doses of FZ's jazz and orchestral overtones. Overnite Sensation is wickedly funny, it rocks and grooves ferociously and allows all the musicians to improvise amazingly(Frank's guitar work is especially awe inspiring), often on instruments not usually heard (violin, xylophone, vibes, etc.) on straight-ahead rock music. Its songs also contain the cool and, to the untrained ear, weird interludes and "outside" elements, as well, but they are used to good effect and are not overwhelming enough to take away a casual fan's enjoyment of the music as a whole. This album's band contains unusual instrumentation for a rock band (as do all of Frank's bands), and this helps a new listener expand his ears and, later, makes it easier for him to get into/understand more complicated pieces such as Echidna's Arf or The Bebop Tango. I'm sure you get what I'm saying. As we all know, before you can walk, you have to crawl, and before you can speak, you must learn the language. The same principle applies when learning to appreciate music that is foreign to one's sensibilities, and this is never more true than when learning to appreciate Frank Zappa's music. It always challenges all who listen to it. Open your mind and ears, relax and give it a try sometime, and remember this mantra: baby steps, baby steps. And who knows, you might not hate it too much. The worst that could happen is you might like it. The best that could happen is you would expand your sense of what music can be. And if you're lucky enough to allow yourself to let that happen to you, believe it or not, you just might end up a better person for it.thanks to Frank.

Theron Neel

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:53:47 +0400
From: "Turusinov, Andrei S." <Andrei dot S dot Turusinov at plc-oil dot ru>
Subject: happy birthday Mr.Fripp!

Happy birthday, Mr.Fripp!

Let me wish you all the best!

We are waiting you in Russia!


Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 01:13:56 EDT
From: Jacbeerbs at aol dot com
Subject: Pre-Crim Belew/Zappa Hullabaloo.

Anyone intrerested in seeing some of the most unchained Zappa/Belew harmony guitar wizardry would do well to rent Baby Snakes. Uncanny.

Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:25:57 +0000
From: "Spear man" <spearman at hotmail dot com>
Subject: happy 57th birthday, robert!

see subject line

Mike Stok