Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1120 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1120 Friday, 9 May 2003 Today's Topics: The Future Re: Fripp's recent troubles The Power to Be Loathe Re: When the music's over turn out the lights! Re: Final days article in the Guardian Great Deciever box set on ebay RF and Tony Blair TPTB - sounds like it means it Music Won't Let Robert Quit King Crimson Meets Les Baxter Fripp is tired Re: Fripp Retiring A sense of perspective New Ground racist post The RF Diary Crimson in Germany Re : Fripp retiring! No! It can't be!!! racism on Elephant Talk Moderation???? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 21:22:23 +0100 From: Mr Tea Subject: The Future Perhaps there really will be no more Crimson. If that's the case, then the entity known as KC has signed out on a high note. Even if there's no more Crimson, I'm sure the hands of Fripp will play on. And let's not beat about the bush, it's the Fripp factor that has kept me listening to KC over the decades, to the extent that KC is simply one (or several) among many Fripp projects and collaborations that I have savoured. I hope there will be many more, regardless of who he plays with and what they choose to call themselves. Nick pp Mr Tea -- The Tea Caddy: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 18:27:52 EDT From: VincentDeBoule at aol dot com Subject: Re: Fripp's recent troubles As much as we love Fripp and KC, we have to consider that he is not required to provide us with music, and the moment a musician continues to work purely for his fans, it's no longer art, but a service. If Fripp doesn't find making albums fulfilling anymore, and chooses to retire from being a professional musician, then we should respect his wishes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 21:07:06 EDT From: EricVWDC at aol dot com Subject: The Power to Be Loathe I truly believe that had TPTB been received poorly (like TCOL), Fripp would be vigorously defending the album (the way he did with TCOL), and would NEVER consider retirement a viable solution to his gripes of being in Crimson. Instead, he'd be looking forward to making the next album, almost as a vendetta, to vindicate himself and the band. The problem we have today, boys and girls, is that TPTB is absolutely phenomenal, everyone LOVES it, and Fripp absolutely HATES the fact that his music is being so well received. After 34 years of being conditioned that he must continuously defend his music, suddenly he doesn't have to. His latest music is wonderful. Thus, he feels useless. King Crimson is no longer the challenge it once was, when everyone hated the latest recording. In his mind, it must be time to retire. Of course, I think a better course of action would be to make another album, but this time, make it so inaccessible that no one in their right mind would ever want to listen to it. Then, once again, Fripp will have an audience who loathes him, which is exactly what he craves. Fripp RULES. But I loathe him. But I love him. But I want to poke him in the eyes. But I want to give him a big kiss. But I want to take a picture of him, and then grovel at his feet, begging him for an autograph, just so I can see him roll his eyes at me. But I want to slip him a $100 bill as a tip, and thank him for a wonderful show at Park West. But I want to pinch his ass. But I want to . . . . Yes, Bobby. We're ALL crazy. Every single one of us. -Doctor Groovy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 19:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Munari Subject: Re: When the music's over turn out the lights! Kcriminals: So, it appears I was a prophesier after seeing KC here in St. Louis in 2000! I even wrote a gig review stating that I felt "it was over" for KC, & was 'flamed' endlessly. The 3 others I attended the show with looked at me like I was crazy when after the concert we sat at the venues bar in a booth, talking & having a beer! Even tho on that night at "The Pageant" RF looked as tho he was enjoying himself, even smiling & waving to people & taking a bow w/the others, I had this GUT feeling that the pressure and road life had gotten to him. RF is a 'punter' in his diary quotes(as my English mates would say)and while KC is his to do what he wishes with, I must say i'm quite pissed off about his comments! Pack it in then Bobby. Or 'force' the others to ONLY perform live, record each performance, don't bother with interviews. There's plenty of assholes who will buy ANYTHING w/the KC name on it! I TOTALLY agree with Joe A. DeGregorio's comments in ET 1118! To Jvince: Don't worry,when Fripp calls it quits for KC, there WILL BE PLENTY of shitty sounding cd's to purchase! Just like a continuation of KCCC! So then hang it up Robert.(I had been refering to you as Bobby because you remind me of a kid playing baseball[or cricket]with the only ball who's not doing well & just leaves taking the ball with him forcing the others to stop having fun!) Or as I was saying(sort of)form a jazz band that only improvises, but at least give Adrian, Pat & Trey a chance to decide to be 'in it with you' or not! Hell, those 3 should add a keyboard player or whatever, I think they'd be most sucessful. Man am I glad there is a "21st Century Schizoid Band" unless Bobby decides to stop them thru litigation, which I wouldn't doubt. Fuck it. I'll keep enjoying 1 of the best prog/heavy metal/fusion(actually that label doesn't do their instrumental sound justice) bands around, "Planet X"! They're doing what I had hoped KC might, trying new things & having a ball, with every member also taking time to play, tour & record with others! There are SO MANY talented musicians, & great bands to devote your KC money to... it's just that KC has been part of my life for so long(Since 69)...Since I was 17, that this does really piss me off, & I don't think it's just Bobby having a 'hissy fit', it's for real this time. Thanks to all at ET it's been fun, & a great experience that I only found out about back in 97. Thanks Toby & Dan & everyone. I know it's been ALOT of hard work & devotion. Steve PS: I always use a quote at the end of my rambling, so i'll paraphrase one here. "KC,(the word was Jazz)the music of unemployment." FZ Now there was a Composer & Musician of the higest caliber, whom REALLY enjoyed what he did! He'd handle the stupid interviews by being sarcastic or being funny, & sometimes just telling the interviewer that he/she was stupid. Plus he too was a taskmaster, & perfectionist involved in every aspect of the 'biz' & HE handled it. Oh well everyone is different. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:40:43 +0100 From: Steve Moore Subject: Re: Final days Those of us of 'a certain age' can remember Fripp's "King Crimson has ceased to exist..." statement from 1974 and the recanting of same in 1981. Then there was the 1984 split and we all know what happened after that If KC 'ceases to exist' again, it'll be back within 3-4 years. To a newbie this may seem like forever but give it another 20 years and you'll be used to these regular pauses in KC :-)) > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 00:24:00 EDT > From: Jjvince1 at aol dot com > Subject: final days > > yes it looks like this could be the end of an awesome band once and for all... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:56:27 +0100 (BST) From: "Dr A. J. Baker" Subject: article in the Guardian Yesterday's (Wednesday May 7, 2003) Guardian newspaper had a curious article on Tony Blair(!) and King Crimson. http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,950882,00.html Andy Baker Department of Mathematics University of Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QW Scotland http://www.maths.gla.ac.uk/~ajb/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 10:09:17 +0000 From: "Brendan Murphy" Subject: Great Deciever box set on ebay Hi, This is my first post, though I'm a long time lurker. I've sen people offering KC stuff for sale here before, so I hope this post is acceptable. (if it's not, that's OK and I apologise). I'm selling a copy of the excellent Great Deciever box set in very good condition on ebay. The item number is 2528278372. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:46:59 -0000 From: "REES-JONES, Richard" Subject: RF and Tony Blair Hello, Here's an article from the 'Guardian' about Tony Blair's liking for 21CSM! http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,950556,00.html Richard Rees Jones ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 17:32:25 +0100 From: "Keith Collyer" Subject: TPTB - sounds like it means it Is it just me, or is this the first KC album for some time (in this forum, i hesitate to say "since BB left") that sounds like it really means something to the players? Not quite such a wrench in the gut as first hearing "Starless" (but then, what could compare to that?), but damned fine nonetheless. Cheers KeithC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:56:35 -0500 From: wviland at thin-film dot com Subject: Music Won't Let Robert Quit Robert (the Black Pick) has been my reference guitar player for many, many years. I've only seen him in concert 6 times. Enjoyed every one. I wouldn't mind Robert moving from King Crimson. Actually, it kind of makes sense. I would Love to see him return to Guitar Craft touring, or solo Soundscaping, or String Quintet type stuff. This is probably more fitting for a musicians senior years. When I introduce Robert's more recent KC music, most often people think Adrian's whaling guitar is the lead speak. Seldom do they hear the elegant precision of RF's voice. It is unfortunate that a musician of his caliber has not been rewarded monetarily, as many no talent poster boy bands have. Somehow I don't believe this would make him happy either. On the other hand, I don't believe King Crimson will continue to exist without Robert. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:18:28 -0500 From: "HYNEK DVORAK" Subject: King Crimson Meets Les Baxter For me, one of the most intriguing musical moments of the recent Crimson tour of the states was the brief Shoganaiesque interlude that showcased a bit o' gamelan with Adrian joining Pat on electronic percussion, Robert soundscaping and Trey ticklin' the Warr. Would anyone else like to see this bit developed into a new Crimson piece or to paraphrase Robert quoting Mr. Gunn, "Is this only Crim ass wind?". This piece is already developing in my head, only Trey is playing the theremin instead of his Warr. I also have a name for it, Jewels From the Crimson Sea. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 23:22:07 -0700 (PDT) From: rone at ennui dot org (circadian rhyme) Subject: Fripp is tired I'm a bit amused by the carrying on about Fripp's possible retirement... i'm reminded of Thurgood Marshall's response to a reporter who asked him why he was retiring from the US Supreme Court: "I'M OLD!!" Fripp is heading into an age some would call "venerable". Why the hell wouldn't he be tired of touring? He gave us a good ride. rone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 03:18:00 -0400 From: "Chris Holderfield" Subject: Re: Fripp Retiring I'm not a musician (yet), but now that I think about it, I guess I wouldn't be. After making 30+ years of music, I guess I'd also start thinking along the lines of Fripp. Chris H. http://www.yournewsnow.tk > >I'm not sure about Fripp possibly retiring, > because I have not been a fan for too > long.... But when I look at the > amazon.com sales ranking (currently at 821 > as I write this), you have to remember that > this is out of millions and millions of > products! And during pre-order and the first > couple of weeks, the album saw sales > rankings on amazon.com of 40-100!!! > > But would this level of success make you > remain in a job that makes you upset? - S. > > np: Joni Mitchell, Ladies of the Canyon > > scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:23:21 +0100 From: "mark" Subject: A sense of perspective Hello, I am personally finding the current Fripp retiring thread very funny. Apart from the fact that every tour is fairly stressful for Robert (judging by his writings). He has high standards, finds fans irritating and doesn't seem to particularly relish hotels. His diaries for this tour have reflected this. However - from all other sources (interviews, related diaries (Sid Smiths for example)) he is reporting that this is the Crimson he has enjoyed most. I am sure we are going to see changes - DGM are hinting at the return of bootleg TV. There is doubt over anymore Crimson Studio albums - no great loss IMO - the studio albums are nice but it's the live ones I listen too day to day. If it where me in Roberts position I would be mischievously delighting in the way every little thing I said online (and sometimes off ) became amplified by Chinese whispers into monsters with lives of their own. Don't forget - the wrong line of business comment came from the discussions with Trey (recently sacked if other rumours had been believed ) over whether you try to do the right thing or try to make yourself happy (not exclusive in my book but lets not get into that right now). Ah well - I am sure it is keeping the members of the band highly entertained on their travels. cheers mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 May 2003 08:36:07 +0100 From: Mr Tea Subject: New Ground This from Elephant Talk - dated 09-05-03 07.20 am: > If you had been a sensitive, dedicated and innovative musician in the > public eye for nigh on 40 years; with a yearning to break new ground... ...and a tendency to keep breaking the same new ground over and over again... Nick pp Mr Tea -- The Tea Caddy: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 05:13:11 EDT From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: racist post In ET 119 someone called "Stamperdanny" placed a post which contained really disgusting racism. I quote: "they (MTV)have transformed into Black Entertainment Television version 2. Decent white bands such as King Crimson can't get airplay while garbage such as the "Backdoor Boys" and "N-stink" get played up left and right. MTV2 used to play a lot of good music, but now the blacks have taken it over. MTV will never stand up to the black community, because they know if they do, they can be charged with racism. You can watch MTV all day long, and not see ANYthing of ANY musical value whatsoever!" I could write pages as to why the writer of this piece is wrong in everything he says but instead I'll just say this. If this is the kind of person who proclaims themselves a Crimson fan these days then the end off the band cannot come soon enough. If I were Robert Fripp and read something like this supposedly in support of my music I would hang my guitar up and never touch it again. Gordy. [ I allowed the original Stamperdanny post because it was so ridiculous and totally brain-dead-stupid, I felt that ETers would simply laugh at its ignorance. I fear that I misjudged, so I apologise to all those who were offended. --Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 07:37:47 -0400 From: Dan Gallagher Subject: The RF Diary When you've blazed as many musical trails as RF has, when you've tread the same circles enough times, it's small wonder that he's ready to move on. Judging by the life cycles he's exhibited so far, I would say a time of soul purging is in order, followed by an effort to document that soul purging in musical terms, terms that are personal, brutally honest, even painful. This is a time of great Weariness, when one realizes that the old, comfortable ways are beginning to rasp, but when one is simply too Weary to explore new directions, when one feels that the grating barrage of routine is an end, rather than a means to an end. The Prescription is Rest, and Peace. And Time. --Dan Gallagher http://sassure1.tripod.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 13:41:57 +0200 (MEST) From: Philipp Ahrens Subject: Crimson in Germany Hello from Germany to all FolKc ! Does anybody know if the Stuttgart-Gig is planned to be the only one during KC's stay in Germany !? ThanKcs for reply, Philipp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:15:17 -0400 From: Christopher Dilkus Subject: Re : Fripp retiring! No! It can't be!!! > Nowadays, they have transformed into Black Entertainment Television > version 2. Decent white bands such as King Crimson can't get airplay > while garbage such as the "Backdoor Boys" and "N-stink" get played up > left and right. MTV2 used to play a lot of good music, but now the > blacks have taken it over. MTV will never stand up to the black > community, because they know if they do, they can be charged with racism. I can't even begin to express how incredibly misinformed this is. I expect a follow-up stating that it must be the fault of the Jews since they are the one's that truly run the entertainment industry, so the downfall of MTV must be part of a Zionist conspiracy using "the blacks" as muscle against the "white bands." Please, for the sake of this list and it's future, think about what you're posting before you hit the reply button. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:40:43 -0300 From: "Jonathan Boulter" Subject: racism on Elephant Talk Dear Elephant Talk Moderators: I strongly object to your policy of allowing overtly racist posting on Elephant Talk. How the first posting on Elephant Talk #1119 passed your censoring is, frankly, beyond me. I simply refuse to believe that you condone such bad thinking. You owe this community--and King Crimson--an apology. You need also to revisit your editorial policy. Shame. Jonathan Boulter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 05:48:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Douglas Arthur Subject: Moderation???? Hey, I thought this was a moderated list? What is with the incredibly racist commentary by StamperDanny? I am shocked that this slipped by. Unless perhaps that the moderator agrees with the writer. If this is the case, this is the last issue of ET I want to read. I will not support this kind of thinking. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who feels this way. The music business is a hard and unfeeling one. King Crimson has never been popular, and it has nothing to do with 50 Cent or Nelly. I am the last person in the world who would wrap themselves in mooshy gooshy new age modernism, but seriously, we are all human beings and we have to learn to live together. I am saddened that StamperDanny feels the way he does. He'll never be happy. Unless he changes his tune, he'll only become more cynical and bitter. Toby, feel free to unsubscribe me from this list if you agree with the writer, otherwise I expect an apology for letting this kind of tripe slip through and given voice. Duty now for the future, ---Douglas Arthur ===== Tales From The Dougside Comics For People Who Hate Superheroes. www.dougside.50megs.com Anti-Social Lawnmower is coming in 2003! A 200 page compendium of all things Dougside! ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1120 *********************************