Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1117 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1117 Monday, 5 May 2003 Today's Topics: KC in Copenhagen June 5th Jack Bruce Live album Tour Box availability In reply to Marillion bucking the system. ITCOTCK and TCOL; ITWOP and TPTB Three of a Perfect Pair questioning the difference between the ProjeKct One recordings European Tourdates lyrics...the power to believe new to 90's / beyond KC Why no European dates yet? Where for go-est Krimson-news.com Help, Polish ET-ers! Is Fripp about to retire PROJEKCT ONE/LAST CALL FOR RF? Fripp Diary 3rd April ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 12:58:44 +0200 From: Kai dot Heyerdahl at sas dot no Subject: KC in Copenhagen June 5th Hello Maybe it's widely known, but I haven't seen it being anounced anywhere that tickets have been for sale for the KC concert in Copenhagen for a few weeks already. http://www.billetnet.dk/event.jhtml?event=9528 Maybe it should be anounced at elephant-talk? Brgds. Kai Heyerdahl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:50:40 EDT From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: Jack Bruce Live album I've just obtained a copy of the soon to be released Jack Bruce album recorded live at Manchester Free Trade Hall in 1975. I'm not really into Jack Bruce but Carla Bley is on keyboards and I do like her work very much so I was hoping that it was basically a Carla Bley Band album. The line up is Bruce, Bley, Mick Taylor on guitar, Ronnie Leahy also on keys and Bruce Gary on drums. Its a two disc set and on disc 2 is an extended piece called "Smiles and Grins". You would swear its King Crimson from the Starless and Bible Black period. Ok, Mick Taylor doesn't sound like Fripp but Bley gets the Mellotron going and Bruce does sound like Wetton and its really uncanny in places. Gordy.xx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:11:26 -0600 From: SJ Hamilton Subject: Tour Box availability Having missed my only opportunities to see the guys on this tour (had tickets for both of the canceled Denver shows; I was snowed in myself about 40 miles outside Denver), my biggest disappointment (aside from not getting to see the show) is that I missed the chance to pick up a Tour Box. I've been trying to locate one since then but with little luck. For the first time I see one on eBay, but this is absolutely ridiculous: current bid is $81.00!! DGM mail order say they "hope" to get some at the end of the tour to sell (I don't know if they meant at the end of the North American tour or the end of the whole thing). Anyone know how limited these Tour Boxes are going to be? Until I'm able to locate one at a reasonable price, I wonder if any kind soul would be willing to hook me up with a copy of the CD included in the box - seems that there's a lot of exclusive stuff on there. Thanks!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:56:56 -0400 From: Michael W Sabol Subject: In reply to Marillion bucking the system. To begin with, I would like it to be known that I am as big a fan of Post-Marillions' music, as anybody that is into the Hogarth led Marillion. What they did, as far as utilizing the Internet to get contributions for financing Anorak was very ingenious. It is widely known and stated by Mr. Fripp, on way more than a number of occasions, that the record industry is a cut throat organization that cares very little for the perspective artist, but on only what the profit margin is all about. But for Post- Marillion to continually sing the blues about not making money, or losing money from recording and touring is totally uncalled for! Here are a couple of guys who earn a living and are not starving I'm sure and are blessed from the grace of God to be doing exactly what they LOVE doing. How many billions of people in the world are there that dislike working at what they are doing but have no other choice in order to just survive? As a fan, I really have no sympathy for this kind of groveling and what I really want to hear from this band is the music!!! Is it not enough that we purchase every album they put out? Are there not many bands who tour and lose money in order to satisfy there diehard fans? A perfect example of this being The Flower Kings. Yet you'll never hear any bellyaching out of their camp. Marillion reached their peak with the Fish led "Misplaced Childhood" album. Since he exited, sales have plummeted. As much as I admire and have great respect for Steve Hogarths writing abilities. The bottom line is this. Hogarth cannot compare to the showmanship that Fish brought to the table and his departure in that aspect certainly had a major impact on dwindling sales. We all know what the recording industries marketing and demographics are today. So my suggestion to Post- Marillion is this. If you want to continue to bombard your fans with this cry for financial help, instead of just getting on with the music? All you have to do is abandon the prog-rock and start writing rap and hip hop songs and before long, you'll be rolling in the dough! Sincerely, Mike Sabol ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:04:12 -0700 From: "Joseph A. DeGregorio" Subject: ITCOTCK and TCOL; ITWOP and TPTB Hello all KC lovers! There was something that struck me immediately upon my first listen to TPTB; I concluded that it is a "concept album" (although I hate that term since it almost means absolutely nothing, it's the best desciption I can think of right now), designed and structured very much like ITWOP. The latter's "connecting" themes - Peace A Beginning, Peace A Theme and Peace An End, seem more related to the sentiments of Sinfield's lyrics in the title track ("Air, Fire, Earth and Water, world on the scales", etc), POAC and the Devil's Triangle, which, although an instrumental, seems to convey the sense of drowning, whirlpools, and even a vague musical reference to Edgar Allan Poe's "A Descent into the Maelstrom." The album conveys a sense of muted hope, but hope nevertheless. If there was one sentiment that would describe ITWOP, it would be the loss of the individual self in an uncaring, alienated world, and man's passionate desire to "find" him/herself again in a world where everything is conveniently frozen and Soylent Green (cat food) is mass produced-tasteless and poisonous, unhealthy and not fit for consumption. However, there is a sense that change can be brought to bear if we heed the warning signs. The themes found on ITCOTCK, are, of course, very similar, although each of the songs convey a much darker tone, such as Epitaph and 21st CSM. This was KC's first album and, as everyone knows, was very well received and left a strong impression on its listeners as well as music critics (although I fail to see how they could possibly be considered the replacement to the Beatles either musically or lyrically). One sees the state of affairs of the world at the time: war, social unrest, increased use of drugs to find inner fulfillment and understanding, a signal for darker times ahead. Overall it is bleak, with no suggestion as to how to change the chaotic state of the world at the time. I believe that this may be KC's most political album. The sounds shock, the music is loud and jarring at times (a beautiful flute figure over the verse line on "In the Court"...followed by a bombardment of mellotrons, percussion and a dirge-like rhythm during the choruses...indeed even the cryptic ending (after the silence) played by a flute duo and then the crashing of sound suggests unrest and makes for listening that is uncomfortable, at best. When I hear people say that this is their favorite album, I am sometimes confused. It's GREAT music, but it does NOT allow you to "settle in" and listen through without being jarred, caught off guard, and made to feel uncomfortable. I used to think that this music had an almost "ugly" quality to it with its dripping drenching mellotron sound and loud cacophonous arrangements. It was so radically different at the time of its release, nothing came even close to it in terms of its music and evocative lyrics. In 2000 Crimson reformed after the Projects and released "The Construction of Light." The only other album I can think of that conveys such bleakness and depression is Pink Floyd's "the Wall" (though they are obviously entirely different). I believe the recording quality of this album is the only fitting sound it could have in order to properly convey Adrian's sentiments - if the sound was cleaner, the meaning of the words may have been lost. The album cover is black, spots of light peek through. Even the title on the cover is obscured-the letters are stretched out, and thin. There is no "pop" quality to the songs. And the words show, like ITCOTCK, a society in upheaval (I Have a Dream- everyone from JFK to Martin Luther King- they are dead and the futility of trying to create positive change), alienation (The Construction of Light- "and if God is dead, what am I?"), Prozakc Blues (a man so overwrought with depression that he "kills himself" by shaving off his head, the world is "a circus full of freaks and clowns", and "you can't please everybody"; these words of advice are from a psychiatrist who could be a character in a Vonnegut novel - in the end all you can do to get over the depression is to get hammered on Jack's and take lots of antidepressants). There is another reference to mental illness, in the song "The World's My Oyster...". After a brief intro, the band produces a sound like a machine gone haywire as evoked by the rhythm section and Pat's unique drumming. This sound is even more noticeable on the Heavy Construkction version. There is a term in psychology to describe the thought patterns of schizophrenics, a "word salad" where the words spoken by the patient are disjointed and don't seem to have any real meaning to them, except to the schizophrenic. But the words DO have a pattern, only it's worthless, and when Adrian sings it, you hear lots of apathy (he says "whatever" as he runs out of phrase constructs). The language is being abused ("get set, get wet, get jiggy with it"). Meaningless cliches abound ("nothing lasts forever dreams come true"), and communication with others is empty and worthless (like advertising slogans). If anyone is still awake, I'd like to wind things up by making a comparison, which may have been somewhat intentional on Robert's part. The Power to Believe, as we all know, has four parts; ITWOP "Peace" theme occurs three times. In TPTB there is HOPE through LOVE. In his notes from The Gates of Paradise, Fripp writes, "Love cannot bear that any soul is barred from finding its place in Paradise." With songs such as "Eyes Wide Open," there is an admonition to always be aware of what is around you, look for positive opportunities, don't let them pass you by. "Facts of Life" deals with some wordplay again, but we each have our place in society, and everyone has the right to believe what they choose to - God, Satan, reincarnation, etc. The instrumentals are generally more straightforward that TCOL, less complex, and many listeners will "get it" the first time they hear TPTB (so rare with KC). So, to conclude: In The Wake of Poseidon/The Power to Believe In The Court of the Crimson King/The Construction of Light First cousins to each other. Thanks for reading this. Take care, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:52:25 -0700 From: "Joseph A. DeGregorio" Subject: Three of a Perfect Pair surely there is nothing on TPTB or TCOL that is as close to being predictable / typical / obvious as some of what's on the '80s band's 2nd and 3rd records snip I don't know what the deal is about people not liking this album, BOTH SIDES. It is a sheer joy to listen to it. I don't tire of it, and it still holds up today. What do you mean by "typical" and "obvious"? Sure, Sleepless gets redundant, but the title track is so well-conceived, as is "Man with an Open Heart". And how can you not like the drumming in "Industry", or the dramatic musical change that occurs in "Dig Me?"(I'm ready to leave I wanna be out of here....). The first side just flows. The second is more of an aural adventure to new landscapes. I like it better than Discipline. It's way more interesting. Besides, the live versions of Thela, Frame by Frame and Elephant Talk blows away the original album versions. Give it another listen, but all the way through, from start to finish. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:29:39 -0400 From: "Dave & Joanna POLIDORO" Subject: questioning the difference between the ProjeKct One recordings I'm a K.C. enthusiast, and a completeist (possibly verging on obsessive) when it comes to all of the releases made available, whether it be catalog re-masters or K.C. collector's club releases. I was about to order the upcoming ProjeKct One live release but I already own the ProjeKct One live at the Jazz Cafe disc from the ProjeKcts box set, and the newest KCCC release is compiled from the same few shows during the first week of December of 1997. I'm wondering if it is worth it to order this at all. Can anyone shed any light on this dilema? What are the significant differences? - Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 15:31:00 +0200 From: UZipter at t-online dot de (epitaph) Subject: European Tourdates Thu 06/05/03 Copenhagen, DEN Cirkusbygningen Fri 06/06/03 Stockholm, SWE China Theatre Sun 06/08/03 Helsinki, FIN Finlandia Hall Tue 06/10/03 St. Petersburg, RUS Oktyabrsky Thu 06/12/03 Moscow, RUS Rossiya Concert Hall Mon 06/16/03 Warsaw, POL Congress Hall Tue 06/17/03 Prague, CZE Congress Centre Fri 06/20/03 Milan, ITA Cascina Monlue Sat 06/21/03 Genoa, ITA Teatro Carlo Felice Sun 06/22/03 Verona, ITA Teatro Romano Tue 06/24/03 Rome, ITA To Be Announced Wed 06/25/03 Firenze, ITA Vialla Solorara Thu 06/26/03 Bologna, ITA Piazza Delle Sette Chiese Sat 06/28/03 Naples, ITA Flegrea Arena Mon 06/30/03 Turin, ITA Colonia Sonora Thu 07/03/03 Barcelona, SPA GREC Festival Fri 07/04/03 Valencia, SPA Feria De Julio Sat 07/05/03 Malaga, SPA Palacio Municipal Sun 07/06/03 Madrid, SPA Veranos De La Villa Sat 07/12/03 The Hague, NET North Sea Jazz Festival Sun 07/13/03 Montreux, SWI Montreux Jazz Festival ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 16:37:29 -0400 From: dave Subject: lyrics...the power to believe Hey gang... I don't keep up with this regularly, so forgive me if this is old news... On my last reading, there seemed to be confusion over whether the lyric is : (She carries me through days of Apathy...) "She Washes over Me" or "She Watches over Me" From Ade's page: All Her Love Is Mine She carries me through days of apathy when I am a desert she washes over me and it gives me peace to know she accepts me even in my folly If the spotlight falls from my face or when I lose my grace oh well... All her love is mine until the end of time even if the sun won't shine or the money runs dry all her love is mine until the end of time, whatever happens then She saved my life in a manner of speaking when she gave me back the power to believe the rest of lifes' changes I might dread to weather except that I know she and I will go together All her love is mine until the end of time even if the sun won't shine or the money runs dry all her love is mine until the end of time, whatever happens then "All Her Love Is Mine" Wednesday, April 24, 1996 (From Op Zop Too Wah) As for the 2d verse of 'HWWYHTBHW', I haven't read anything that sounds too close to me yet. 'I terse ecernally' is as close as anything I can make out, to this point. That verse ends pretty strangely, tho...makes it tough... Thanks, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:34:57 -0400 From: chris delisle Subject: new to 90's / beyond KC hello, i'm a recent convert to King Crimson and am quite aware of the power of the 72-74 incarnation, as well as the 81-84 version. where's the best place to start in the 90's and beyond? please write me @ cdelisle at teleweb dot net thank you, chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 13:57:26 +0100 From: "Russell Whitworth" Subject: Why no European dates yet? I spent last weekend (Easter) visiting Stockholm - and I was astonished to find the city liberally plastered with "Power to Believe" posters advertising a concert on June 6th. And yet www.king-crimson.com still claims "No dates as yet to announce." Actually, as we walked past each poster, my family was amused to notice my mood change from astonishment to delight, to irritation, to jealousy, to anger... and finally to quiet resignation. I did, however, manage to restrain myself from helping myself to a souvenir (they looked very easily removable). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:17:22 -0400 From: Lee Huntington Subject: Where for go-est Krimson-news.com Did I miss something? What's up with Krimson News. I'm a diary addict. I miss my Sid Smith fix. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:00:12 +0200 From: Ferenc Riesz Subject: Help, Polish ET-ers! Dear Polish fellow ET-ers, I need some help from you bratanki! :) I will be in Poland in June and (of course) I consider attending KC gig on June 16 in Warsaw. I need help/directions for advance ticket purchasing (online?). I would appreciate any information on other music events in Poland in that period (I am aware of Yes on 15 June). Please contact me off the list. Dziekujem bardzo Ferenc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:22:06 -0000 From: Orn_Orrason Subject: Is Fripp about to retire >From Fripp's diarys april 16th T"his makes me a difficult character to work with professionally, in addition to the numerous personal failings commented upon by former Crimson members, and online fans whose consumer rights have been violated. So, this is a formal acknowledgement that the life of a working player is no longer right for me. Alternatively, I am no longer the right person to be a working player. This is now official: I am in the wrong line of work. " >From these lines it is clear that Fripp has had enough of being a professinal guitar player. He also mentions that he has had enough of making records - to much work - no payments. One can also read between the lines that there is tension in the band. I would suggest that this particular KC is on their last tour for a very long time. So go and see them. I also wonder how the new CD is doing sales wise. Judging from the Amazon sales ranks it is not doing that well. Is King Crimson despite it's brilliant players creating art that is not in high demand. For me the music is not doing very much any more. Bestu kveojur / Kind Regards Orn Orrason VP of Networks Framkvamdastjori fjarskiptasvios OG Vodafone Soltun 26 105 Reykjavik Iceland orno at ogvodafone dot is Phone +354 599 9000 Fax +354 595 5199 Islandssimi & TAL became Og Vodafone on april 16th ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 17:33:08 -0400 From: "philip m. quirk" Subject: PROJEKCT ONE/LAST CALL FOR RF? Greetings from Brooklyn, home at one time or another of Ralph Kramden, Bobby Fischer & Barbra Streisand(Imagine those three at a bar quaffing a few!) The Projekct One disc landed in the mailbox a few days ago, and I've given it one listen so far, and I already want to hear more(if any is around) of this lineup. RF in particular seems to play more freely than he does many times in KC, making his guitar sound like a whole plethora of instruments and gracing us with a soundscape to open the disc. It leads me to wonder what he might play in KC if he weren't feeling so constrained by the dynamic of the group and his part in it. Sometimes I think it would be great to hear RF with just a bass player and drummer playing whatever comes to mind, improvising freely, oh there goes my jazz-oriented brain again... This morning I caught up with RF's diary entries, and he either is quite tired of touring and somewhat frustrated, or he's seriously considering not touring anymore. As he points out, another album means more interviews, gigs, enormous time spent in the studio, etc. none of which seems to agree with him. Add to that his over50 status, and it could be he's tired of it all and wants to move on. Does anyone else come to that conclusion? P.S. A while back one poster mentioned a live album by Tabla Beat Science as one of the best of 2002(I heartily agree!) The female vocalist on the album(Gigi) has released her own disc titled "Illuminated Audio", and it's a beaut- spacey, dreamy music with ethereal vocals and that Laswell production, a bit of 'dub' style bass, worth a serious listen for the open-eared. "If you don't go to other people's funerals they won't come to yours." Yogi Berra ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 23:28:15 +0100 From: John Coakley Subject: Fripp Diary 3rd April From Robert Fripp's diary, April 3rd 2003 "I arrived at the Liverpool Empire, which I believe Crimson last played with Ian, Mel & Bozzell in 1971, for The Black Hills of Dakota through Secret Love and to the end. Yippee!' I remember this concert vividly to this day, the first one I ever went to. Breathtaking both for the silence and the noise, particularly in Pictures of a City, dedicated by Boz to 'the biggest rubbish dump in the world'. I also remember seeing the Fripp/Wetton/Cross/Bruford/Muir version at the same venue about a year later and the later version minus Muir some months after that. Crimson in Liverpool obviously left a greater impression on me than the Liverpool Empire did on Crimson. Anyway, 1971 wasn't the last Empire appearance for King Crimson. The 80s versions visited the Students' Union. I suppose a repeat is out of the question for 2003. John Coakley ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1117 *********************************