Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1115 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1115 Monday, 14 April 2003 Today's Topics: OT: Tallis' Spem in Alium Grooning to the Muzak / Ladies' Court Words on Ekektrik; Larks 1-4 SF 3/28; Same album, opposite themes crimson in stockholm KC in Japan Effect? Re: New Crayons? portland review Exposure missing disc (and others) Setlist for 3/29 LA show request Vintage Fripp-1992 Re: King Crimson newsgroup KC sing-along jamboree! + BQ Children; comparisons live recordings Re: One More Red Nightmare ELP for sale Ticket prices - (moan) again Re: that new David Sylvian and Derek Bailey release ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:05:13 +0200 From: Ferenc Riesz Subject: OT: Tallis' Spem in Alium Mr Tea wrote about Tallis' Spem in Alium: >BUT... if you follow up this recommendation, take care over which recording >you buy. The best I've heard is a 1974 performance on EMI by David Wulstan >and 'The Clerkes of Oxenford'. A 1985 Gimell release by Peter Phillips and >the Tallis Scholars comes a respectable second, while the one to avoid is a >70s Decca recording with the choir of Kings College, Cambridge, which is >just a florid, overblown mess (musta been cut with something). Another very good - if not the best! - recording is Utopia Triumphans by the Huelgas Ensemble on Sony Classical with other many-part renaissance choral pieces. Highly recommended! See http://www.sonyclassical.com/music/66261/index.html Ferenc UI Any official European tour dates...? I heard from many independent (not official) sources that Fripp et al. will perform on 15 June in Budapest with Syrius and Focus!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 03:07:41 -0500 From: "Nick Spannaus" Subject: Grooning to the Muzak / Ladies' Court Okay, okay. I know that every poster and their cat has a story to tell about their, uh, cat. Well here's mine: I just walked into the room to find my cat dancing (literally) to Crimson.. She was sitting right next to the speaker and bobbing her head side to side along with the beat.. It was the live version of Groon from Summit Studios (one of my favorite live KC discs). It was funny as hell.. She totally dug the sax/guitar interplay (courtesy of Mel & Robert).. She stopped dancing during the drum solo (about 8 minutes into the song) and left the room.. So either she's not big on Ian Wallace's drumming, or she finally realized that I was laughing at HER.. Anyways. The main reason I'm posting is this: I dig that 47 second clip of "In the Court of the Crimson King" on Ladies of the Road.. Can anyone recommend a live recording where they take a similar approach to this song? Also: rone at ennui dot org said: "can't you fucking potheads just follow the goddamned rules for 3 hours?" Evidently not, but that's why they're potheads. give em a break. lichtafee at gmx dot de said: A lot. (paraphrased) Is it really that hard just to say a song sucks? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:45:29 +0200 From: "Tomek" Subject: Words on Ekektrik; Larks 1-4 Nobody interested? Maybe bacause of a small error. My post was published with " GIG REVIEW:" topic. So here it comes again. Hello, 1. I wonder why this topic hasn't been posted here before, but didn't you wonder what does the strange robotlike voice on Elektrik say? According to sleeve notes, voice source on Elektrik is Tim Faulkner. Who is he? Are his words sampled or did he do a special performance for TPTB? And if it's so, who wrote the words for him? Adrian? Many questions around... BTW, the piece is stunning. Did you hear Pat doing that "ting" at 7:22? I love it! 2. A few issues ago i've posted some thoughts about Larks 1-, but no one replied to that -IMHO- interesting topic. I wondered why Krim hasn't ever played all four parts of LTIA in a row. And why boys aren't doing that now, when they are able to manage with more gentle parts of LTIA 1 (just listen to TPTB 2...) Personally, I think it would be great to hear the Larks Suite in it's full might.Or maybe we shouldn't think of it as of one piece... Isn't LTIA 1-4 an amazing voyage through all these things that unites KC music in it's history? Tomek Talerzak ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 09:11:59 -0700 From: jliss at speakeasy dot net Subject: SF 3/28; Same album, opposite themes On the show March 28 at the Warfield: Thank you, San Francisco -- after three tries over three years, you provided me with a Crimson show without a flash. To be honest, between my mood and the sheer volume at the Level Five show at the Warfield, I actually had a Crimson show I had to struggle to enjoy at all. This show had beautiful sound and completely restored my faith in the live experience of the mighty Crim. Setlist corrections: Virtuous Circle was also played, a highlight of which for me was Fripp encouraging Adrian to play more of the "Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan's spirit trapped in a synth patch" part. And of course, "Happy" was played -- the poster in #1113 forgot to include it in his setlist and when I try to recall myself I can't place it in order, but it was probably after "Eyes Wide Open." "Facts of Life" lyrics: The first time I listened to the album, I was very struck by the lyrics of "Facts of Life" as being in direct opposition to the concept of "The Power to Believe." I also think this opposition is quite deliberate. Cynical song, hopeful song. After all, this is the band that gave us "Discipline" and its precise counterpoint on the same album. Jeff Liss San Francisco ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:49:44 +0100 From: LaB Subject: crimson in stockholm Guess my surprise to see King Crimson coming to Stockholm! First time ever. Already got my tickets. They are playing at China Teatern 6 june!! Strange it isn't listed on the King Crimson.com Tour page. LB ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:18:06 -0700 From: Brian Workman Subject: KC in Japan I was initially disappointed that KC was not including Phoenix on the tour this time but serendipity is in my favor. It so happens I will be in Japan on business next week, and I plan to try and catch them at one of the shows in Tokyo. Through much searching on the internet, I have been able to find the addresses and phone numbers of the venues, but no specific information about the shows (what time do they start, are there any tickets left, etc). I plan to call when I get there (and hope that I can be understood). But if anybody has any info about these shows or has tips on the best way to get there, please email me off list at: brian dot workman at cox dot net Thanks, Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:32:46 +0100 From: "dr" Subject: Effect? Hi all, I've been listening to "The Power To Believe" for a couple of weeks now, and although it didn't take that long to reach my conclusions about it, I just wanted to listen to it again to be absolutely sure. And then again, for final reflections and all that. And no matter how I look at it............., I like it big time. For me at least, it has been the best thing I've bought in a while. Anyway, I was wondering if anybody could help me with a techie query. In "Dangerous Curves", at approx 3:03, it sounds like Trey playing a bass line. The question is, is this done using the small "ashbory bass", or is it the "warr" using a midi-effect? If anybody knows, I'd appreciate it if you could let me know. Dougie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:19:12 +0100 From: "Edward of Sim" Subject: Re: New Crayons? "HYNEK DVORAK" just said: > Tony Levin said that in King Crimson, Robert has asked the members to > never play the same thing twice or to try to approach their instrument in > completely different way each time (I'm paraphrasing). Well, many of the > songs on the past two Crimson albums obviously have a lot of reference to > songs from Crimson's past. And here's this bit from a recent Adrian > interview taken from the Chicago Sun-Times, "There have always been > parameters to what we do and don't do. There are actually more things that > we don't do than there are things that we will do. It's as though you > have a > box of 24 crayons and you pour six of them and say, "You can only use > these." And the challenge in King Crimson is to take these six crayons and > make new drawings every time." > > I thought that part of the philosophy behind the Projectks was to find new > crayons and learn how to draw with them. Tony's above quote was definitely > the case for the 80's Krim, which bought some new crayons to box, but > besides Pat's electronics, the 90s and beyond Krim seems not to be using the > "never play the same thing twice" philosophy. > Has anyone heard Crimson members commenting about this change in musical > philosophy? I love TCOL and TPTB, and the classic Krim crayons, but I'm > curious as to where/why the change in philosophy. These are some very cool and thought-provoking questions. I don't see it as a change in philosophy, so much as a growth and deepening of the original philosophy. I think the once-stated methods of "don't do the same thing twice" and "always approach the instrument differently" are fascinating and interesting tools, the gist of which is to avoid falling into the trap of the obvious; it makes once focus specifically on seeking out new territory. However, this method adhered to can be a trap in itself, for it serves as a deep limitation. I think more and more Robert's approach...what he seems to have been working toward with Crim at least...is a unit of musicians, tuned into each other, focused together, who would be willing to be present in a moment and space together and allow music to take form, with a complete openness to its arrival, whatever form in which it might arrive. Now, if you are making a conscious effort to definitely DO or NOT DO *anything*, it is a constriction on the possibility of this happening. And while, as stated, the above philosophies were espoused during the '80s Crim, surely there is nothing on TPTB or TCOL that is as close to being predictable / typical / obvious as some of what's on the '80s band's 2nd and 3rd records. So, I don't know about needing new crayons. Adrian's recent comments about being limited to just six out of the box seems an exaggeration. I would think they are *allowed* to use *any* of them, but they also have a sense together of which colours and textures they are collectively drawn to, or are drawn to them, as a unit. Then again, I always talk a load of rubbish! Mileage may vary, yadda yadda yadda. peace, Edward p.s. Whoever it was who recommended the Tallis 'Spem in Alium' a couple digests back, thanks! I sought it out due to the passion with which you spoke (I'm listening now as a matter of fact), and "wow" is about all I can say about this piece at the moment. +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+ Edward of Sim a Californian in Lancashire my band: http://www.mp3.com/VirginTwin "Classic rock of the future" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:31:13 EDT From: Jacbeerbs at aol dot com Subject: portland review The March 25th show in Portland was my very first Crim-show and WHEEE-DOGGY it was great! I did notice the flashing lights but I don't think that it was from an audience camera. The light seemed to come from the side of the stage and up above. It was weird. I don't to bore folks with my ravings about how uncanny the show was (I save that for my long suffering girlfriend) but I will say when i closed my eyes during "...Thrush", I was giving something I will always love and remember and can still feel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:21:44 -0400 From: "jacques rousseau" Subject: Exposure Hi, Where can I find the lyrics to Northstar (Exposure)? I think it is the best use of Daryl Hall's amazing voice ever. Too bad he used it for pop junk most of the time. Jim (Canada) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:11:06 +0100 From: Gareth dot Page at gstt dot sthames dot nhs dot uk Subject: missing disc (and others) hi team this post requires private responses only, but out there, there may be someone who can help me my laptop and 6cds were left in the boot of a taxi in Miami. The cds were in no particluar order: The Night Watch (signed by our heroes at the Intercontinental, Park Lane); Echoes (Pink Floyd); A Night of Yes Music Plus (ABWH); Live Bursting Out (Jethro Tull); Missing Pieces (National Health); Second Generation (VdGG) If the Night Watch is advertised anywhere, signed in silver, I'd like to know where to get it back from Gareth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:19:21 -0700 (PDT) From: ProgNaut at webtv dot net (Ron Fuchs) Subject: Setlist for 3/29 LA show request I can't seem to remember the setlist and I'd like to include it on my review that I posted in a previous ET. Can anyone please help? Many thanks in advance. --- Ron Fuchs "a progressive music fan & review site" http://www.ProgNaut.com Update list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProgNaut/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:58:57 EDT From: AGCNY at aol dot com Subject: Vintage Fripp-1992 Hello all! A vintage Fripp interview and live set that includes California Guitar Trio, Trey Gunn and Patricia Leavitt is on the link below in a one hour Real Player stream. It is from the WNYC, (Public Radio), show "New Sounds" originally aired on September 17, 1992. Check it out soon as I am not sure how much longer it will be up. There is an Eno "show" archive online on the same page as well. Best, Les http://www.wnyc.org/music/articles/13077 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:34:45 -0400 From: "brad cook" Subject: Re: King Crimson newsgroup >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:29:28 +1000 >From: "Polli, Brian" >Subject: King Crimson Newsgroup >Hi Everyone, >Is there a King Crimson Usenet User group? >I've looked for one without success... >If there isn't one, perhaps it's time there is... >Brian It's been proposed before but never happened (as far as I know it still hasn't). For now the KC chatter on usenet mostly occurs in rec.music.progressive. brad cook ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:46:36 -0500 From: David Snyder Subject: KC sing-along jamboree! + BQ > > From: "Brothers, Michael (IA)" > ... > ... and I'm singing along with this > fabulous pop song, thinking about some of the posts here, wondering how > anybody could question why King Crimson could make songs like this, or > 'Facts of Life', or 'Happy...', when he pipes up, "I don't think King > Crimson should make songs you can sing along to." Mike, Maybe your son meant that KC shouldn't make songs that YOU can sing along to! Joking aside, I can listen to the vocals and lyrics as part of the musical structure. With appropriate concentration and intention, I can listen to the lyrics without ascribing any meaning to them, rather than listening to the noise of my mind constructing meaning where there is none. Intimate observation, as it were. Then this makes possible that, without being attached to the meaning or significance of the words, I can be present to vthe intention of the lyricist and be moved. This opens the possibility of listening with integrity. There are other worlds than the current one to live into. BQ: what needs to be present to operate at level 5? David "... And this was one of the many times in which I experienced my own death, an experience I most highly recommend." -- Baron Von Munchausen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:20:47 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Children; comparisons >I really enjoyed the post a few issues ago from the gentleman who took his children to see King Crimson. His kids' comments were so honest and insightful. I wish I could have done the same, but Park West would not allow anyone under 21. I was also very disappointed that the Roseland in Portland did not allow kids under 21. >Would you guys stop comparing crimson to phish. OK. - S. np: KC, Heavy Construction scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:10:35 EDT From: Jjvince1 at aol dot com Subject: live recordings i was wondering if kc will release a live recording of the us tour as the auidience at the park west show was mic'd and i think if people complain about ticket pricing they should do as i did try some creative purchasing techniques as i drove to chi from stl (5 hrs) with no tix got their sold out the wife started to panic but i wound up with 2 tix for 50 bucks so i dont feel its fair to complain if all u know is sci ticket master etc and by the way 100 a ticket for the second show would have been fair it was awesome............peace ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:21:25 -0500 From: "Nadim S. Haque" Subject: Re: One More Red Nightmare I fully and in good conscience agree with Robert Zeien on this matter. As soon as the drums kick in, "One More Red Nightmare" is a beauty (actually, the rest of the music isn't bad either). Nadim --- Nadim S. Haque sliced|suitcase is 312.804.4932 - www.slicedsuitcase.com 'We move forward by coming from.` - Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:23:25 +0200 From: Gnad Markus Subject: ELP for sale Dear all, I'm selling the following CD's (all in in best, conditions). For price & details please email me privately! Emerson, Lake & Palmer - The Original Bootleg Series From The Vanticore Vaults Volume One (7 CD's) Volume Two (8 CD's) Volume Three (5 CD's) Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Then & Now (Live 73/97, Double CD) Markus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:23:08 +0100 From: brian dot parker at zoom dot co dot uk Subject: Ticket prices - (moan) again U.S. fans - Please stop moaning about ticket prices - be thankful the band appears in your country more than once every 5 years. Unless London features this time around, I'm gonna have to fly into mainland europe, stay overnight, if not 2, etc etc blah blah blah - never mind prices of ticket. Of course this is RF's way of manufacturing higher uk ticket prices - using supply and demand against his uk fans....(irony guys, couldn't resist..) BP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:07:24 +0200 From: "Bruinenberg, Fred" Subject: Re: that new David Sylvian and Derek Bailey release >> I`m a bit behind, & have yet to hear "Camphor". Do I need it? Well depends if your familiar with David Sylvians instrumental work. It's just a sort of best of his instrumental work, with on the limited edition as a extra his work with Holgar Czukay. When you go to this link you can read a good review about the album. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/s/sylvian_david/camphor.shtml Regards Fred ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1115 *********************************