Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1113 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1113 Tuesday, 8 April 2003 Today's Topics: 21CSB in Moscow: a word of apology Response to Mike Miller in et #1111 New Crayons? Disbelief? Mr G. Soundscapes deception of the thrush/ Q an A Ranking Roger I'll terse ekernally ... Norbert Fragg Australia Again: lyrics King Crimson on tour Fripp/Eno influenced ambient musics songs that never should have been written etc. Re: More TM Crap (personal experience) Toyah interview GIG REVIEW: The Warfield, 03/28 GIG REVIEW: March 29th in Los Angeles GIG REVIEW: The grove show GIG REVIEW: Anaheim 3-30-03 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:15:31 +0300 From: "Sergei" Subject: 21CSB in Moscow: a word of apology My sincere apologies to Jakko Jakszyk for attributing to him the words that he apparently didn't say. Margie has kindly informed me that penston's posting in Ian Wallace's online diary that I quoted in my review of 21CSB gig in Moscow, was actually a joke! I'm very sorry. Sergei ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:08:51 -0500 From: Deadbirdy5 at aol dot com Subject: Response to Mike Miller in et #1111 > The disc is called, "The Power to Believe", and that is a > positive lyrical theme that runs through the album - "when she gave me back > the power to believe." There are few lyrics on this album, which is typical > of any Crimson album, but this is the repeated statement. I couldn't help > but notice in Facts of Life the lines "nobody knows what happens when you > die / believe what you want, it dosen't mean you're right". What's going on > here? There are more things in life to believe in than the afterlife. Take, for instance, yourself and the world around you. Some even find those kinds of things to be more of a certainty. Just because something isn't blatantly implausible doesn't mean that it's not worth believing in. And yes, there can be a lot of power in maintaining realistic beliefs; it just doesn't involve quite as much deception. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 16:05:18 -0600 From: "HYNEK DVORAK" Subject: New Crayons? I recently saw King Crimson at the Park West in Chicago on March 15. I've also seen and enjoyed this version of Krim on their past two tours, in which there was a fair amount of musical feelers being bandied about by the group members. This time around, Krim is a finely tuned and brutal beast! Many others have previously reviewed the shows, so I won't continue on that thread, other than to say, "It's a must see!". Now my burning questions. Way back when the boys started Projeckting, Robert mentioned in his on-line diary, that he envisioned a two drummer Krim. I believe that he wrote of a desire to explore musical territory with two electronic drummers. Once the current Krim started to take formation, I heard no more about the two drummer idea. Was this format only intended for Bill and Pat? I saw P2 and Adrian's drumming was the best part of the show. He played with a child's new found wonder and never fell into any sort of cliches, while Robert and Trey seemed to trade off the same real fast solo throughout the show. I'd love to see songs/improvs with Pat and Adrian on e-drums. I know Adrian has his little electronic percussion accompaniment, but I'm thinking of something a little more involved. It's funny that when Pat first assuming sole percussion responsibilities, a lot of ETers complained that they disliked his electronic percussion, even Adrian mentioned that he didn't care for some of the drum sounds on TCOL. Now, it seems that Pat has converted quite a few folks. Pat's drumming and use of electronics is one of my favorite things about the current Krim. Has anyone heard the Krimsters commenting about this? Tony Levin said that in King Crimson, Robert has asked the members to never play the same thing twice or to try to approach their instrument in completely different way each time (I'm paraphrasing). Well, many of the songs on the past two Crimson albums obviously have a lot of reference to songs from Crimson's past. And here's this bit from a recent Adrian interview taken from the Chicago Sun-Times, "There have always been parameters to what we do and don't do. There are actually more things that we don't do than there are things that we will do. It's as though you have a box of 24 crayons and you pour six of them and say, "You can only use these." And the challenge in King Crimson is to take these six crayons and make new drawings every time." I thought that part of the philosophy behind the Projectks was to find new crayons and learn how to draw with them. Tony's above quote was definitely the case for the 80's Krim, which bought some new crayons to box, but besides Pat's electronics, the 90s and beyond Krim seems not to be using the "never play the same thing twice" philosophy. Has anyone heard Crimson members commenting about this change in musical philosophy? I love TCOL and TPTB, and the classic Krim crayons, but I'm curious as to where/why the change in philosophy. Lastly, I always enjoyed the way the 80s Krim used effects and guitar synths in unconventional ways, i.e with fuzz pedal, etc. The new Roland guitar synths are pleasant, but at times a little sterile, ESPECIALLY THE "SMOOTH JAZZ" PIANO SOUNDS!.......UGH (see P2 Space Groove)" Any chance on Adrian and Robert incorporating that same type of sonic mayhem? I would love to hear them use the Lovetone effects pedals. Also, Robert seems to have been using the same soundscapes equipment setup for over ten years now. Any chance on him adding more crayons to his soundscapes? Whatever the answers, the current Crimson is adding a lot of enjoyment to my life. Long live the King! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:52:24 -0500 From: Sylvan Subject: Disbelief? Mike Miller wrote: > The new Crimson album is, in my opinion, fantastic. However one thing > confused me. The disc is called, "The Power to Believe", and that is a > positive lyrical theme that runs through the album - "when she gave me > back > the power to believe." There are few lyrics on this album, which is > typical > of any Crimson album, but this is the repeated statement. I couldn't > help > but notice in Facts of Life the lines "nobody knows what happens when > you > die / believe what you want, it dosen't mean you're right". What's > going on > here? It's a contradiction, but only if "the power to believe" refers to reigious belief, as opposed to, say, belief in the general goodness of humaity, meaningfulness of life, whatever. And even if it is a contradiction, it still makes some sense in the context of the album; since "gave me back" implies that he had lost it, no? So the only question is what he means by "belief", and that is one we have not been given the answer to. Feel free to make up your own. In any case, attributing too much significance to any King Crimson lyric is liable to be hazardous to your mental health. -- sylvan http://www.webcomics.org "The hamster is still dead." --Leonard Nimoy -- sylvan http://www.webcomics.org "History: read it and weep." --Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:55:56 +0200 From: "christian skina" Subject: Mr G. Soundscapes Hello, If you ever wondered how Mr G's soundscapes really sounded, here u have a chance to listen to 2 improvisations from 1949. They're in mp3 format, 2,8 and 4.something MB. http://www.cinemaskina.com/mrg.htm No, it's no spam, there are no cookies so if u prefer to get one, u'd better try the Makota Hagiwara ones from Los Angeles, they're delicious! Greetings Christian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:21:36 -0800 From: Steven Gordon Subject: deception of the thrush/ Q an A I saw my first KC show on Saturday at the Wiltern in LA. It was awesome. I was wondering if anyone could tell me how Trey Gunn makes his guitar talk on Deception of the Thrush. Even after seeing it, I still don't know what happened. I was also disappointed that there was no Q and A session. Do they only do this at some shows? If so, why not the LA show? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:13:28 -0600 From: Jon Buckley Subject: Ranking Roger <> Well, for me, Discipline, and before that, Lark's Tongues. It does not imply that I like it more, just that I like it very much. And, I'm now listening to it constantly. The live show helps to define and extend the studio disc experience, that's for sure. Still haven't found a Crimson album I dislike. Though, I'm not a big fan of The Construction of Light. Should have seen that live show. But, as they say, like and dislike are cheap. I am looking forward to a repeat live engagement later in the year. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:10:22 -0600 From: "David F. Snyder" Subject: I'll terse ekernally ... >From: Boobird at aol dot com >Subject: TPTB Opinions... > >3) The "second verse" of "Happy..." is, to my ears >"And for a second verse >of terse acuity, Try this: "And for a second verse, I'll turse ecernally" (hard 'c') Swap the 'c' and 't' in the 2nd line and - voila! - the phrase of which it is a bastard son. So it's a terse verse. Some other contributor askes "what's up" with the last verse in FoL - in the scheme of alternating hope and despair, that song is cynicism and despair, manifested. Best to all, David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:18:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim B." Subject: Norbert Fragg Can I say something? Thank you, Bill Kent, for continuing to make this newsletter worthwhile. Jim B. ====If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. -Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:34:51 +1000 From: "Andrew Keir" Subject: Australia Is there any hope that KC will tour Australia some time. Andrew Keir ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:25:57 +0200 From: George Koopman Subject: Again: lyrics Mark wrote: 4) The "Happy..." lyrics are the funniest Adrian has ever written. Are they? Since no-one is sure what they are ("acuity"?,"economy"?), how can one tell they're funny? At least Mark is the funniest poster since Josette (who we all dearly miss). Peace, George ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 01:55:25 -0500 From: "Kris M" Subject: King Crimson on tour I know that King Crimson is on tour again. They were up here in Toronto at Massey Hall on March 18, but unfortunately I wasn't able to make it this time. Were they selling any EPs or t-shirts at the shows? I have the EP and shirt for Level-5, but if they have something new out now, I'd like a copy of the EP, as well as the tour shirt. If you can help me, please contact me at homesweetplanet at sympatico dot ca. Thanks! Kris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:34:39 -0800 From: "Nick Kemp" Subject: Fripp/Eno influenced ambient musics This is worth checking out if you like Fripp/Eno style ambient musics, definate influences at play on www.chillfactor10.co.uk with mp3 samples online ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:56:00 +0200 From: "lichtafee" Subject: songs that never should have been written etc. Hello! I refer to Mark's posting in ET #1111, concerning general statements about art and songs that "never should have been written". First, there surely are several more possible purposes for art (besides intentionally causing emotional responses). Further I believe that art's effectiveness mainly depends on our own receptional abilities, and isn't automatically the artist's responsibility. But that could be a long discussion ;o). And I vaguely remember a saying that goes like: "the artist's only obligation is his work" (and not some speculation on the works' relevance for others or on the listener's/viewer's emotions, as his work even might be absolutely free of any emotional purposes, more aiming at some objectivity for very good reasons - hats off to the 50s' post-war avantgarde! :o). Regarding a "serious" rock band, their aim in the first place might be to execute what they think they HAVE to play (this might be a romantic value, but nevertheless a quality standard I believe in). So I guess that a composing rock musician like Fripp has some structural ideas going on and gives them shape in some compositions, maybe not thinking very much about what the resulting music will effect within the listener. I also remember some other musicians complaining about the lack of music they like, so they began to write some compositions to please *themselves* with. (An essay of brillant american composer Milton Babbitt was even titled "Who cares if you listen?" Wow! Does anybody think this attitude was arrogant? If so: Why???) Maybe one special quality of all KC line-ups frequently has been their devotion to "serious" rock music, to music-immanent "problems", to the musical process (as opposed to decisions made during production mainly for mainstream-appeal or image-reasons), so a lot of KC's general work surely matches artistic "obligations". That's one side of it. But if one looks on the several songs of KC, that "shouldn't have been written" with those strict "artistic obligations" in mind - it doesn't fit together in my opinion as - well, they partly reproduce some clichees of contemporary mainstream-rock (even if partly ironic - this indeed doesn't look like the ultimate self-realization - but of course, artistic blah blah surely wasn't the point of these songs). Neverthelss, many fans who like the "serious" or "complex" side of KC easily could be disappointed by those new songs. Further they also might wish that some pop-material of KC "never had been written", it doesn't sound completely mysterious to me (and let's suppose they are average tolerant: maybe their button to skip CD-tracks doesn't work?). Anyway, I absolutely do NOT want to downgrade these songs (I surely feel closer to them than to some contemporary art-snobism - which on the other hand really isn't meant to be labelled on the author of the ET-post I refer to). But this is meant as a summary commenting on aforementioned ET-post in #1111: in my opinion it is a bit severe and not the best choice to approach some of these songs (and followers of mainstream-rock music) with measures for "serious" art (whatever that might be), be it in favour for those or not, as most rockmusic maybe asks for it's own way to be recepted and "understood" (or rejected!). And maybe a bunch of KC-songs belong to that (and exactly THAT might be one of their qualities!). Greetings, Joerg P.S. In my opinion, almost every KC-LP (from 1969 on) contains one or more weak songs, but these at least might be a colour that changes the overall-impression of a given release, simply as dramaturgical contrast to the more complex, intense, cacophonous material (to me, a release like "THRaKaTTaK" seems to be pretty grey). And isn't this structure of KC-records full of contrasts a typical characteristic of that band? More "simple" or nice pop-stuff next to more adventurous pieces? And I'm pretty sure: if the whole KC-repertoire exclusively contained "weird" pieces like "Schizoid", "Mars", "Larks' I", "Providence", "Requiem", "Industry" or "Thrak" - well, maybe they had disbanded completely after the first two records or existed in obscurity from the beginning (although I'd surely be a big fan of a more bizarre KC). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:38:12 -0600 From: "Brothers, Michael (IA)" Subject: Re: More TM Crap (personal experience) In ET #1111 Robert Fries wrote: >I estimate about 400 people in the audience who had their tickets >'refunded.' Continuing the recent trend of showing other ETers how to >multiply: >400 * $1.50 = $600 that TM stole from a small crowd in a small venue in >one night. For this college student, $600 is more than a month's rent. >How much more so for larger crowds/venues/bands!?! I'm having trouble with the concept of 'stole' as defined by this anecdote. As uncomfortable as I am in my evolving role as the defender of Ticketmaster in this forum, I must point out that Ticketmaster provides a service. A service that many venues are more than happy to have Ticketmaster provide. In order to provide that service they must make a profit. In order to make a profit they must charge enough to cover their expenses, their margin, and have a little left over. That is what the $1.50 is for, and it's quite a bargain, in my view, since Ticketmaster gives me several options on how to obtain my tickets. None of which, I might add, that require me to take time off work and stand in line at the box office, or stay on hold for an hour in the hopes I get to speak to the less surly of the two overworked volunteers manning the box office that day. Sorry if I insulted your intelligence by being so basic, but you made it sound like Ticketmaster was using that $600 to go off and club baby seals or something. The concert didn't happen, but Ticketmaster had already provided the service, so they should get to keep their processing fee. Take Care, mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 19:43:48 +0100 From: "Alan and Linda" Subject: Toyah interview Greetings At work we have the TV on and I happened to be passing and saw Toyah being interviewed. It turned out to be an edition "Through the Keyhole" For anyone not familiar with the programme, it is a lame daytime panel game where the cameras tour a celebrity's house and the panel then have to guess whose house it is. Unfortunately, I had missed the nosey around the house (even Mr Fripp couldn't call this an invasion of his privacy as it was on national TV) I did chuckle when they interviewed Toyah. She revealed that, when she appeared on "This is your life", her husband didn't know any of her friends as he lives in Nashville. Perhaps some US readers could provide some information about the music scene in Nashville. In the UK it is only known for being the home of country music - not something that would appeal to many Crimheads I would have thought. Anyway I was wondering if anyone had seen the whole programme and had anything to say about Mr Fripps ideas on interior design? Cheers Alan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 12:28:10 -0800 (PST) From: rone at ennui dot org (circadian rhyme) Subject: GIG REVIEW: The Warfield, 03/28 After an invigorating meal at Henry's Hunan on Natoma, my wife and i headed to the Warfield, where we were each charged an arm and a leg for an 8oz cup of Anchor Steam and bottled water. Robert Fripp opened for the band with some Soundscapes (by this time, the air was lousy with smoke already; can't you fucking potheads just follow the goddamned rules for 3 hours?), and when the time came, the rest of the guys came out, Trey and Ade all in white, Pat and, of course, Robert all in black. During the concert, i got a definite vibe from each of the players: * Ade: The mad scientist. The wispy hair (he seems to have lost a bit more since last i saw him), the crazed faces, the spastic motions. * Robert: The super villain. Always cool, calm, slick, and even his bursts of energy show a frightening efficiency and economy. * Trey: The suave secret agent. He was wearing a natty, almost Elijah Snow-esque suit, and defended his ground wielding two 'weapons' at a time. * Pat: The rebel, the anti-hero. He knows what needs to be done, and he's not too worried about making sure everyone's happy with it, so long as the important people are. Set list: * The ConstruKction of Light* (Ade: "That's quite a mouthful!") * ProzaKc Blues * ElektriK * Facts Of Life (Fripp goes 'fuckobazoo' on the solo) * The Power To Believe Part I * Level Five * Eyes Wide Open * The World's My Oyster Soup Kitchen Floor Wax Museum* * One Time (huge horns are inflated on stage; Ade: "And those are the small ones!") * The Power To Believe Part II * Dangerous Curves * Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part IV* First Encore * The Deception Of The Thrush * Dinosaur Second Encore * VROOOM* * denotes songs where Trey played both Warr guitars at the same time, one strapped on, one laid flat on a stand. He played the first half of "Thrush" on the former, and the beautiful second half solo on the latter. An incredible show. The sound, excepting the first minute or so of TCoL, was excellent. The light show was superb. Robert applauded us between encores. I didn't notice any flashes. We had seats in the middle of the balcony, near the rear, but it was perfect as we'd forgotten to bring earplugs, so the music's volume was barely excessive. I declined to purchase the Tour Box, as it's just an audio CD in a DVD case, and at $40, that's just too much. Thanks, Crimso. See you next time. rone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:19:50 -0800 (PST) From: ProgNaut at webtv dot net (Ron Fuchs) Subject: GIG REVIEW: March 29th in Los Angeles King Crimson at the Wiltern Theater Saturday March 29th, 2003 We were clad in a Beatles "Let It Be" t-shirt (my wife) and a "Red Dwarf" t-shirt (me) and as always, both of us wore our "ProgNaut.com" baseball caps. The evening started off quite well, as my wife & I got onto the freeway heading east on I-10 from the Santa Monica area. Traffic was mild, some slow parts but not bad for a Saturday night. We arrived at the parking lot behind Wiltern Theater at 7:35pm and paid the high price of $10 to park our car. We didn't complain much as the space was close for me to walk to the venue (I'm presently disabled and I use a cane to walk). We got in the line about 8pm, lucky for us we were the 3rd person in line. The doors opened promptly at 8:30m and quickly we proceeded to the souvenir table. I purchased the "Tour Box" Booklet & CD, which is packaged in a DVD box. The packaging seemed to confused some people as I kept hearing the same question over and over, "Is that a DVD?". After the show I purchased the tour t-shirt and boy was the table busy then. A bit pricey on the merchandise but I'd rather the money go to the band than someone on ebay or worse off, some of those peddlers outside the venue trying to sell cheap versions of the t-shirts. After purchasing, we headed to our seats. The usher noticed I had a cane and said that we can sit in the handicapped section if we wanted. I said okay. Our original ticketed seats were in Section Three but the handicapped area was in Section Two, so we got a nice upgrade until the show started. I wonder if there was a Level Five section? ;) I totally forgot to bring ear plugs that night especially for my wife and when the band started after Robert Fripp was playing some "soundscapes", we were assaulted by the loud fury of 2 hours of Crimson music, including encores. The set comprised of music from Thrak to the current The Power To Believe, half instrumental/ half vocal. Interesting highlight before the show started was sighting the "Music Geek" from Comedy Central's "Beat The Geeks" game show. Either he was wandering around endlessly. We thought either he schmoozing it up with some people he knew or plain lost in finding is seat. Low points were the yelling of "I love you Fripp" and other blurred rambling, probably courtesy of the alcohol served. ;) Anyways, we sat on Trey Gunn's side of the stage but Robert, Ade & Pat were very visible as well. I was at awe on how the band played the songs especially Trey. The way he played his Warr guitars was visually a treat. Pat's drumming was equally a treat as both acoustic and v-drums were a blazing all evening. Ade's singing and playing was excellent. He was the most animated of the four but Trey had the poses down solid as he gracefully played away as if playing his instrument was a breeze. Last time I saw the band was in 1995 at the same venue, with the double-trio line-up. From memory, the show was quite blurry instrumentally and the current 4 piece's set was clearer and much much louder. Both my wife & my ears are still ringing as of 9am Monday morning. I really enjoyed the evening even though I forgot a majority of the songs played. In all honesty, I was really there to enjoy the music, so I didn't want to ruin the experience by writing notes all evening. I know my wife isn't into much of the music listen to but this was a nice pre-birthday present (April 2nd) to me from her. Her thoughts were the show was more enjoyable than the Flower Kings show we saw last year, April 2002, at the Troubador. She also said the music was too loud and chaotic but I let her know ahead of time what to expect. In all fairness to my wife, I'm sure that the next concert we'll go to will be mellower or less chaotic. I'm a confirmed BELIEVER again! ~Ron Fuchs for ProgNaut.com [March 31st, 2003] Temporary Link for reference and copyright info: http://www.geocities.com/prognaut/live-reviews/king-crimson.html --- Ron Fuchs "a progressive music fan & review site" http://www.ProgNaut.com Update list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProgNaut/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:55:01 -0800 (PST) From: jhusak at csulb dot edu (Jonathan Husak) Subject: GIG REVIEW: The grove show after seeing the king perform at the wiltern last night, i figured nothing could top that show in that venue, especially when you get the opportunity to sit next to danny carey. . .but it did. i just got in from their anaheim show at the grove, and it exceeded last night's show. after their second encore, the audience had the pleasure of witnessing fripp step up to the microphone to the thank the crowd, the crew, the band. . .and then he spotted someone in the audience pulling out a camera to take a picture. here were his words: "sir, if you use that camera, i will put it up where the light never ventures!" the place went nuts. enjoy japan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:52:30 -0500 From: "Mike Miller" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Anaheim 3-30-03 Hey guys, just a quick review of March 30th in Anaheim. Show was at a dinner theater, so that was interesting. Heavy setlist tonight. I really enjoyed the show, but it seems to me that the sound was fairly muddy, at least until about the middle. The first few numbers, Level 5, Construction, and Electric, suffered from some really poor bass definition, which was a shame since Trey does some great stuff in those songs. It sounded like he was playing a sponge for awhile there. The show really was rocking though. At the end there was a five minute Fripp speech where he thanked the crew, and sternly admonished a dude for having a camera. Highlights were a blazing Facts of Life, Power 2, Larks 4, and a beautiful Thrush (power3). I brought a friend with minimal crimson experience, and I think he hated it, but what can you do. Crimson isn't for everybody. I was amused by his reaction. One thing I couldn't quite figure out was Belew's awful T - shirt. He had these immaculate dress pants on with perfect creases down the middle, and this old beat up stretched out Hanes T - Shirt on. Pretty funny. Maybe Cali was too hot for him! Anyways, excellent show, outstanding setlist, and a speech from Fripp. Good times. Miller ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1113 *********************************