Discipline #111 (as text)

14 October 1993



From: Toby Howard <toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk>
Subject: From RF: Eulogy for his mother

Some background. A few months ago I contacted Robert Fripp to tell him about Discipline, and sent a few recent copies. RF wrote back asking me to send all the back issues for his personal archives. I did so (when I eventually found a cooperative laser printer!) and a few weeks later RF wrote back to me enclosing two submissions for Discipline. One was the text on which he based the eulogy he delivered at a service for his deceased Mother. The other was a piece about the discipline of the musician.

I must admit, I was rather surprised -- and delighted -- to receive a contribution to Discipline from RF. This set me thinking. I've been confused for a long time about exactly what the Discipline list actually _is_, and -- I have to say -- I am very touched by the kind remarks from people about the list. But what are we? Are we a fanzine, a discussion group, an information forum, or what? I'd welcome readers' thoughts on this, and how this feeds into what we should be called. There's currently 465 readers, by the way, in 23 countries, and that in itself is quite amazing.

Enough from me. Here is the eulogy piece. The other piece will follow in a later Discipline.

=======================================

       Basis of Eulogy for Edie Fripp delivered by her son Robert at
          Wimborne Minster on July 30th 1993 during the service to
               celebrate her life and commemorate her death.

                           by Robert Fripp


My dear little Mother slipped gently from this life Thursday evening the
22nd of July between 9.07 and 9.10 while I was holding her hand, just three
months short of her 79th. birthday.

Twelve hours later her heart was still warm.

She was born on October 14th 1914 in Abertillery with a twin brother who
died an hour after birth. For this reason, being a twin, her temperature
was always lower than normal.

Edie spent the first 17 years of her life in Aberbeeg, a Welsh mining
village in what is now the county of Gwent. When she was 17, having never
been christened, she organised her own christening and took the name of
Edith, the name given to her by her parents. She never liked the name Edith
and often mentioned to me that if she had had more sense she would have
called herself by another name.

Her home was in a terrace of houses built by her grandfather and his eight
sons for themselves and their families. This was Greenland Terrace. One of
the sons was killed during the construction when a wall fell on him.

The centre of village life in this Welsh mining community was the chapel
where Edie's talents for singing, elocution and social interaction were
encouraged and practised. This Chapel background may also have been the
origin of her anti-clericalism. Barney Hopkinson (the officiating minister)
is the only man of the cloth for whom she ever felt affection and respect,
and who might have lead her to regular church-going. Otherwise, she said
that she felt closer to God in Poole Harbour or Bournemouth Bay while
fishing on my father's boat. Or at least, this was what she told a visiting
evangelising former vicar of Wimborne Minster when he called.

Edie's father, Joe Green, was pigeon racing champion of Wales for three
consecutive years with his blue checker pigeon "Lily of the Valley".  Joe
lost a leg in a mining accident, and in the following week as Joe hovered
between life and death my grandmother's hair turned white. He died in 1948
at the age of 59 from angina, a result of his occupation.  My mother was
very close to her father, a connection maintained throughout her life, and
always considered a visiting pigeon to be an omen of good fortune.

As I left my home to attend the service a pigeon rose from a cable and flew
above me.

Gladys Louise Green, nee Lewis, Edie's mother, remained in Wales to marry
Joe following the early death of her mother and the subsequent emigration
to Australia of all her family. Nanna Green was proud that her children
Evelyn and Edith never had to attend the soup kitchens of the Welsh mining
communities in the hard times of the 1920s. Nans died at age 95 in 1985,
outliving my father by several months. I visited her with my cousin Malcolm
a month before she died. Although her mind and memory had mostly gone, she
recounted in living detail the night on which her husband, Granky Joe
Green, had died. His last words, spoken in the morning to a friend, were
"Take care of Glad". She told this story as if she were speaking of the
previous night. In actuality the event had been 35 years before. Neither
death nor a widowhood of 35 years affected the love and loyalty which my
grandmother held for husband. Her last words, spoken to my cousin Jean,
were: "I've said my prayers and I'm ready to go".

Edie left Aberbeeg around 1930 because her only other choice was to marry a
miner. She came to Bournemouth at a time when job applications bore
notices: "No lrish, No Welsh". I never myself knew my mother to
discriminate between people whatever their background or circumstances.  At
a dance during the war, following the influx of American GIs, my mother was
reproved by a white GI for dancing with a black GI. My mother's response
was that as far as she was concerned, both were fighting to support
England. And then she went off to dance with another black GI.

During the war my mother worked in Bournemouth, initially in the Records
Office. Her earnings as a civilian were substantially more than enlisted
workers and these earnings, saved by mother, established my father in
business with the acquisition of a property in Leigh Road, then No. 75, now
No. 14. At the rear of the property was a Spiritualist Temple which in time
became a dance hall and eventually an auction room, somewhat to the disgust
of Mr. Jenner the spiritualist minister.

Then, in 1945 my sister was born and 1 year 1 month 2 days 12 1/2 hours
later, so was I. As you may have gathered, I'm the younger one. My mother
had had no wish to be a mother, but once motherhood arrived she gave her
family her life.

So, my mother was an energetic, social creature who gave herself to her
children and husband while smartly dressed in bright clothes and often
wearing large, pendulous earrings. She accepted my father's anti-social
nature, which was in marked contra-distinction to her own social
inclinations, and supported her children in whatever way was needed and
possible. This included visiting infant school plays and carol singing in
Broadstone which my father managed to avoid without difficulty.

On Christmas Eve 1957, after she had already bought all my Christmas
presents, Mother spent the day shopping with me in Bournemouth and bought
me my first guitar. Subsequently, she took me to Westbourne for guitar
lessons nearly every week for two years. My father encouraged my practising
by paying for the lessons.

My father was who he was, and I sensed his children were something of an
interruption in a life which otherwise might have been quieter. I think he
found us continually surprising and not quite part of the world which he
understood.

But my Mother learnt from her children. My sister became the person she is
because of my mother, and my mother became the person she was because of
who my sister became. Mother was also pretty zingy, and had no sense of
direction at all -- a talent practised over a period of 38 years driving in
all directions including the one which lead to where she was going. She
loved James Bond movies, particularly when Bond punched out the baddies,
and was becoming educated in high action Jean Claude van Damme movies the
week before she died.

Mother was an unrepentant smoker, although smoking undoubtedly contributed
to the cancer which killed her. The Friday before she died and upon her
return home from Wimborne Hospital she celebrated with some fierce toking
of her 100mm stogies, the packet of which bore the clearly displayed
banner: "Smoking is bad for your health". She commented to me how good it
tasted after a smokeless week in Victoria Hospital. To acknowledge this,
her last pleasure, we have put in her coffin a packet of her favourite
cigarettes contributed by Rosemary, her neighbour at Millstream Close, in
the hope that wherever Mother is now or shortly going to there will be a
smoking section. We also placed in her hand a pink rose from Reddish House.

Two years ago, following the death of my spiritual mother Mrs.  Elizabeth
Bennett, and reflecting upon the death of this my second mother, I came to
appreciate the utter necessity of death. In an obvious sense, life and
death are reverse sides of the same coin.  Without life there cannot be
death, and without death life is without imperative. Death, in this view,
is an inevitability. But death is far more than mere inevitability, and
makes a contribution to life which enables life to continue. With the
cessation of a life, something is returned to life and living things of
what has been acquired during this life well lived.

Our contemporary culture seems to be the only culture in history which
doubts that an individual consciousness, concentrated within one particular
life, is an ongoing and continuous action contained within the growing
overall human consciousness. For my part, I have no fear that my Mother's
death has ended very much at all, but perhaps provided her the opportunity
to trade in an old vehicle for a speedier model. Although given my Mother's
total lack of direction, practised to a near art-form over a lifetime of
hair-raising achievements, that might be a legitimate cause for concern.

My mother gave me her unqualified love and support, without which the
difficulties of the music industry, particularly the very hard early years
of constant travelling and pressure, would have been overwhelming for me. I
wish to acknowledge publicly and gratefully that my mother's unconditional
love has been the foundation of my life.

There is only one father in the world. There is only one mother in the
world. But there are many children.

I have not lost my mother, but I miss her company.

Note:

Following the service I rode with my Mother in the hearse, such was her
sense of direction, to Witchampton Churchyard where she was placed with my
Father in the plot which had been prepared for them both since his own
burial on April l9th. 1985. The Fripp family have been living in the
village for some 300 years and on May 16th 1986 my marriage to Toyah took
place in the church which now both my parents look down upon.

From: pc1ajy2 <pc1ajy2 at greenwich dot ac dot uk>
Subject: UK dates - Sylvian & Fripp
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 14:06:06 +0100 (BST)

Hi there,

I have just found the dates of the UK F&S tour to be 4th & 5th December at the Royal Albert Hall tickets costing 12.50, 10.50 & 8.50. I will probably be going on the 4th (Saturday) is there anyone else on Discipline going?? Maybe we could meet beforehand.

Paul

PS - I hope the live dates aren't old news...


Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 10:35:02 -0400
From: Mark "Crimson" Friedman <crimson at ihz dot compuserve dot com>
Subject: Re: King Claypool

Last ish, Anil asked about the glaring absence of acknowlegement of Crimson influences in Primus. Well, I'd seen a little bit myself, actually. Les *always* bows down to Tony Levin in interviews, and occasionally talks about Stick sound and playing. He's also said that he's a Crimson fan.

And what about Lar and Herb? Damn if I can find any interviews with them: it always seems like Les who gets to talk.

As for the press drawing comparisons on their own, the only one I've seen was an article in one of the guitar mags entitled 'The Court of the Crimson Cheese', or something like that. Bit of a comparison later in the article, too. Perhaps the Rush comparison is a little easier for the press since their first album, "Suck on This", was introed by the starting riff of "YYZ".

Oh well, I've seen the comparison for a long time. Heck, I'd even joked at the beginning of the new Crimson lineup rumours that it'd end up being Primus + Fripp! I'd still love to hear that one...

- mark

Geee, look at my sig...imagine, sometime in '94 I'll be able to remove that Fripp quote that's been there since I'd originally heard it at a local Crafty gig way back then! 7'>

.. Mark "Klone Crimson" Friedman is crimson at ihz dot compuserve dot com ................
"There is nothing former  "Beat poets,    "Bite me,   "My jacket! I killed
 about King Crimson."      not children."  it's fun!"  Kennedy in this jacket!"
 - Robert Fripp, 5/11/90   - t-shirt       - MST3K     - Ron Post

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 09:54:32 CDT
From: oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com
Subject: Primus

Anil asked if anyone hears the Crimso influences in Primus' Pork Soda. Well Anil, Primus actually *is* King Crimson playing incognito! And another thing... The Residents are actually the Beatles!

You heard it here first folks!

david


Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 09:09:10 MDT
From: pmartz at dsd dot es dot com (Paul Martz)
Subject: Reactions from a girlfriend: U. F. Orb / The First Day

Had an interesting experience this past week I thought Discipline readers might find amusing.

I went to the neighborhood new & used CD/record store, and saw The Orb's "U. F. Orb" in the used bin for $9. Intrigued by the recent Orb discussion on this list, I brought it home and played it. First, it wasn't ANYTHING like what I suspected! The songs were all pop rock with fuzz guitar and cheesy lyrics! What was this? It became apparent, shortly, that what I had was a mispressing -- someone else's music on a disc labeled The Orb. So while I'm looking the case over closely for other clues, I notice there's a bonus CD inside the case as well, and I play that, and yes, there's the stuff I expected to hear -- 40+ minutes of throbbing house music! Cool!

So while I'm grooving to this, my girlfriend comes home from class. Obviously she's had a bad day. Upon hearing the music, "What IS this shit?" is her first comment. She disappears in the back of the house for a few minutes, all the time "Thump Thump Thump" coming from my stereo. She emerges and this time the quote is even better: "This music SUCKS!" What can I say, I love her for her brains, not her musical tastes. So anyhow, the disc is obviously defective, and I resolve to take it back.

Next day at the record store I return it for a full refund and pick up Fripp/Sylvian's "The First Day" instead. On the way home I'm wondering what the hell she'll think of this. So I get home and play it and although I wasn't particularly turned on by "God's Monkey", or the second cut, or "Darshan", the rest of the disc was very intense and wonderful. The cut "Bringing Down the Light" came on (which is a very mellow, soothing, etheral, ambient piece), just as my girlfriend came home. Ah, the moment of truth! She smiles at me and says, "Ooo, I LIKE the music you're playing tonight!"

So I'm sure her reaction to different musical styles is based entirely on the fact that she has a very stressful fulltime job, plus two college courses this term, and she is WAY stressed out. House music didn't do a thing for her stress, but ambient music seems to be the cure-all.

Anyhow, I can now credit Sylvian & Fripp with saving my relationship. Thanks, Bob and Dave!

   -paul	pmartz at dsd dot es dot com
		Evans & Sutherland

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1993 12:24:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: MCGLINCJ at bcvms dot bc dot edu
Subject: Re: Asia's Moscow album

Yes, Asia did record an album in Moscow (I think it's called "Live in Moscow", and is the "classic" lineup sans Steve Howe (who left after their second album, Alpha)- John Wetton left soon after that and Carl Palmer rejoined ELP. It's pretty good as one could expect it to be, although from what I remember I didn't like Pat Thrall's (the guitarist for this tour) rendition of "Starless"- IMHO, it sounded kind of mechanical, not capturing half as much of the emotion which Fripp originally laid out for the song. I think that the accompanying live video also has U.K.'s "Rendezvous 6:02", if I remember correctly. Great song!

Joe McGlinchey
Boston College


Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 11:48:25 -0700
From: rpeck at pure dot com  (Ray Peck)
Subject: Discipline #110
>From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad)
>
>Since all of the hoopla about their mega-successful album "Pork Soda" came
>out, I haven't seen a SINGLE article mention the blatant King Crimson
>influence the group posesses.
>
>At times, you might even think they were the bastard offspring of the
>Discipline line-up, or even the Red line-up if you stretched it.
>
>Does anyone agree with this, or am I totally off-base here? I hear tons of
>Frippisms and even Belewisms in Ler Lalonde's guitar playing, and I'll be
>damned if Bruford isn't a MAJOR influence on Herb Alexander's percussion
>outlook.

All three have cited Crimson as very strong influences, but especially Les (Tony) and Tim (Bill). I saw them last week, and the guitarist, Larry "You're a Bastard!" LaLonde played a solo during one of their songs that was what I swear was nearly the exact Belew solo from "Elephant Talk".


From: Malcolm Humes <malcolm at wrs dot com>
Subject: last week's braindump
Date: 24 May 1993

???/Load/CaCa at the Kennel Club, San Francisco 5/10/93:

Next up was Load. . .

This band was excellent. Featured a guitarist, a stick player and a member-of Primus on drums. The King Crimson references were very strong - sort of a mix of 74 era Crimosn with the 80's band - not quite as complex as the 80's stuff with only one quitar, but this all instrumental band is very hot. They have a bit of a middle eastern sound to the guitar at times, which made it lean a little bit to sounding like Ozric Tentacles. Supposedly the drummer >from Primus is a huge Crimson fan, and it seems like the whole band must be. I've heard a demo they did from January 1993 and it's pretty good, though perhaps at times a little texturally monotonous. Supposedly they have an lp in the bag due out sometime soon. I liked them a lot and can't wait to hear what they do next. I sort of question whether an instrumental release by a Crimson-esque band can really sell. In some ways I wish the 80's King Crimson had been more instrumental, but with Load I wonder if the lack of a vocal presence and personality might limit their marketability.


From: David Bayer <snuffy at well dot sf dot ca dot us>
Subject: King Crimson Videos
Date: 	Fri, 8 Oct 1993 15:13:39 -0700

Does anybody know how to locate the longer German and France (Frejus) videos?


Date: 	Fri, 8 Oct 1993 18:26:22 -0400
From: David McMillan <david at vortex dot yorku dot ca>
Subject: Tours/Tuning

I've been reading Discipline for a while (it's the best music list going). I thought I'd put my two cents worth in.

It's great to here that Sylvian/Fripp are playing in Toronto. I've just recently moved from there to Vancouver. So, I would like to find out if anyone has any info about SF or Adrian Unplugged in Vancouver.

I'd also like to comment about the "new standard tuning" discussion. I was originally a mandolin player and in my search for different sounds I made myself a couple of solid body electric mandolins. At any rate, it seems that such an instrument is typically custom made and there's an obscure electric mandolin player out there named Tiny Moore (I think). I have a picture on an album with his electric mando and it had 5 strings on it. After some investigation I found out that it had the usual four open notes in single strings (GDAE low to high) plus a low C. It basically incorporated the range of both a mandola and mandolin (analogous to viola and violin). That is how I designed my electric mandolin. Well, having had some very technical training I wanted an instrument in which I could experiment without a technical or theoretical bias. Of course that turned out to be the guitar.

Many years ago at a local music store I found a guitar instruction video by Adrian. It was great! The bottom line was: Any thing goes if you can make it sound good. This included retuning one's instrument in any sort of random way, bending the neck, playing on the other side of the nut or saddle and many other tricks out of Adrians bag. I don't recall any details about the video but it's about ten years old.

About the name debate, Elephant Talk is good but we could get a little more obscure and call it Broohaha or Diatribe or some such thing.

Dave McMillan


Date: Sat,  9 Oct 1993 21:29:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Scott T. Lillis" <sl4q+ at andrew dot cmu dot edu>
Subject: League of Gentlemen/Fripp&Eno

I have heard of this project of Fripp's called the League of Gentlemen. What is this like? Is it similiar to the Crafty Guitarists?

Thanks,
Scott


Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 11:07:07 MDT
From: pmartz at dsd dot es dot com (Paul Martz)
Subject: Discipline #110
> From: Christian Guettge <da015 at rs2 dot rrz dot Uni-Koeln dot DE>
>
> I saw Robert with the Crafties in Bonn 1990. This was a great
> moment and a faboulous concert. But when I look to Discipline
> and the numbers of german Discipline Readers , I think l live in
> an Crimson/Fripp-Third-World-Country.

So do I: Utah. It's very dissappointing to hear that practically the only person I'd be willing to pay money to see perform live (Fripp) is only going to tour the U.S. west and east coasts, and maybe a couple other places that are just as far away.

Well, Christian, we can always hold out for the new King Crimson tour, which will hopefully be more extensive.

   -paul	pmartz at dsd dot es dot com
		Evans & Sutherland

Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 10:52:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: MCGLINCJ at bcvms dot bc dot edu
Subject: Levin and memorizing Primus

Hi! On the liner notes of "Plus from Us", a supplementary album to Peter Gabriel's "Us" album, Gabriel states that he admires Tony Levin's ability to memorize a song on one sitting. My roommate and I were debating the last night as to whether he could or couldn't do that with (any given) Primus song. My roommate says that, with certain songs, there's no way Tony could do it on one sitting, but I think, based on Tony's immense talent and ranking as one of the top session bass players in the music industry, that he could probably memorize at least a good 95% of what he hears on first sitting. So, are there any more qualified bass-players and/or Primus listeners who could offer some insight on our debate? Any replies would be most appreciated. As for myself, I haven't heard much of any of their works yet, but I'll get around to listening to Les&co. one day!

Joe McGlinchey
Boston College

p.s. oops!--I think I made a mistake-the new Crimson song is called "One TIme", and not "One Life". Sorry 'bout that!


From: deflorio at convex dot rob dot csata dot it (Vincenzo De Florio)
Subject: Crimso videos/John Wetton equipment
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:29:21 +0200 (MET)

Hi,

I'm a KC lover in Italy and I'd like to buy some videos of KC. What must I do? Can you give me some information about right shops and/or people for that?

I'd like to know the equipment used by John Wetton during his mighty years with King Crimson.

Thank you very much,

 Vincenzo De Florio
 deflorio at convex dot rob dot csata dot it

Date: 10 Oct 93 20:38:00 PST
From: "Chris King" <C_KING at emulex dot com>
Subject: Wetton & Asia/Live Moscow CD

Someone wondered in the last issue whether the Asia in Moscow with "Book of Saturday" and "Starless" was any good. I bought it out of curiousity and was generally disappointed. Both Crimson songs are played with the intensity of wet spaghetti (with no meatballs). Only Wetton's voice makes the purchase worthwhile--only if it's a used c.d. at a low price. I can't figure out why such a talented bunch of musicians play like they're half-asleep. It's as though they're sight-reading the music for the first time.

Best Wishes,
Chris King

p.s.--Why weren't there any Orange County, California dates for the Fripp/Sylvian gigs? We Orange Countians are willing to drive up to Los Angeles only for the real thing--King Crimson--or, maybe, if that band with George, Paul, and Ringo reform. The riot stuff over the last couple years makes Los Angeles at night truly, as Adrian says, a "dangerous place".


Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 20:57:12 BST
From: JRS12 at PHOENIX dot CAMBRIDGE dot AC dot UK
Subject: King Claypool

Anil Prasad writes that he hears a large amount of influence from KC on the new Primus album. I quite agree, but I don't think that this is a bad thing, since I'm probably fed up hearing van halen and holdsworth derived solos etc, and I think that these guys have an endearingly self aware manner of quoting their influences (thinking here especially of the first track on 'Suck on this', where they start with the beginning of Rush's YYZ and then go off into John the Fisherman).

I'm also pretty sure that the second track off Pork Soda is based on the riff from Living Colour's 'Cult of Personality', but it may well just be a coincidence. The only point on which I would disagree with Anil Prasad is that Primus do make some comment on the KC influence in their music (they posed for photos with Adrian Belew at last year's Guitar Player bash, during which they confessed to their admiration for the guitarist and his music), although 'tis true they do talk about Rush a bit more. Still, so do Fishbone and Metallica, and we all know how much they sound like Rush. Last thought on the lifts from Fripp's style: so much of modern rock guitar is based on citation (the value of this and its implications can be debated ad nauseam) -- don't you want his master's voice going into the gene pool? Larry Lalonde is an intriguing accompanist, and it's nice to hear him trying to assimilate this stuff. Jim Simpson


From: gtaylor%vme.heurikon.com%heurikon dot UUCP at cs dot wisc dot edu (Gregory Taylor)
Subject: Re: Discipline #110
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 9:33:26 CDT
> From: javasque at entropy dot bph dot jhu dot edu (Jaime  Vasquez)
> Subject: Sylvian bootleg
>
> How many Sylvian bootlegs are out there. I just recently borrowed one made
> in Japan from the '88 tour. I think I've heard of one made in Italy from
> the same tour... is it the same performance?

In addition to the one you mention, there's an exquisite Japanese boot from the "In Praise of Shamans" tour that's *got* to be the soundboard. It's extroardinary. I believe that the title is "Words with the Shaman". There's not even a label listed for the disc, and not even a catalog number. I found it more or less by accident....

Gregory Taylor (who has to do his radio program instead of driving down to Chicago for Fripp/Sylvian)....


Subject: It's only talk...
From: Ken Stuart <kstuart at waffle dot sns dot com>
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 15:36:49 PDT
Organization: Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA 94539-6669

Hello,

Elephant Talk is indeed a perfect name!

And, by the way, whoever was remarking about the repetitiousness of the track "Darshan", you have also perfectly described the problem with most of the music of the past 5-8 years. (In contrast, listen to the title track of "Tarkus": the melody, rhythm and harmony changes every minute or so -- while still being related to that which went before.) [Note ex-Crimson reference :-) ].

Cheers,
Ken

PS You think you've waited a long time for Crimson material? I seem to remember the Great Deceiver being only some months ago... Why would it matter when it was recorded?

----
kstuart at waffle dot sns dot com  (Ken Stuart)

From: "Lefferts, Jeff" <jlefferts at ea dot com>
Subject: Drummers
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 22:32:00 PDT

Bill Bruford is probably my favorite drummer. For anybody who hasn't seen his book "When in Doubt, Roll!", get a copy. It's insightful, witty, has stories from throughout his career, and is a great source of quotes. If you're a drummer, it's even more useful for its exercises and painstakingly accurate transcriptions.

For the last few months, I've been trying to cope with the concept of a King Crimson without Bill. Few drummers push my buttons like he does. But how's this for a left-field idea? Ginger Baker! His stuff with the Masters of Reality prove he can still play a fierce groove! It would be interesting to hear Fripp, Levin, et al, play with such an inventive and entertaining drummer. He's so different from Bill that they might as well be playing different instruments.

I think I'll go home and play "Tilt-a-Whirl" and "Discipline" simultaneously.

On my stereo, that is, not my drumset.


Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 12:00 CST
From: SANDERSO at gacvx2 dot gac dot edu
Subject: Primus-King Crimson comparisons

Anil Prasad posed the question of whether anyone had seen or contemplated a comparison between Primus and King Crimson. The answer, from me, is yes, on both counts:

An issue of Guitar Player from earlier this year (June, I think) had an article on Primus, entitled "In the Court of the Crimson Cheese." It also briefly mentioned that Primus was part of the second generation of progressive rock, a generation not laden with the pretentiousness of its forebearers. The article continued, "Can you imagine fans at a King Crimson concert shouting 'You suck' at their heroes?"

Also, the earliest mention I ever encountered of a Primus/King Crimson connection was one I myself made in Spring of 1992. I was writing a review of the Frame by Frame boxed set for my high school newspaper, trying desperately to sway the students away from the crap they listened to (the Gear Daddies are big in my hometown, probably because they're FROM my hometown (Austin, MN). Anyway, I thought it might entice people if I mentioned the following: "Robert Fripp's guitar styles are just now coming into use by other players, most notably Larry LaLonde of Primus." I also said, "If you find bands like Primus interesting, you'll like King Crimson." Nothing profound, but I am proud of the fact that I made note of this a year before it started popping up in major publications.

Yes, I do see a tremendous King Crimson influence on Primus' music. Les Claypool has said that he listened to a lot of King Crimson and Fred Frith while he was in high school.

Scott T. Anderson
sanderso at gacvx2 dot gac dot edu


Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 15:56 EDT
From: CHOSSMAN at apollo dot davidson dot edu
Subject: new stan. tuning / recent Fripp ??

Hello everybody! I have what I think to be a very important question concerning the recent discussion of Fripp's new standard tuning. I hope this hasn't been brought up before, but if it has, please fill me in.

I know that Fripp devised the new tuning and created the Guitar Craft seminars AFTER his work with the eighties Crimson and Andy Summers. And, it seems to me that he was using this tuning with Sunday All Over the World and with David Sylvian. I could be wrong, but from listening this appears to be so. I am ceratin that he was using it with the string quartet, in order to jive with the Trio and with the stick. The Frippertronics from this tour were spectacular, a result I'm sure, from the new Korg technology and the new standard tuning, not to mention years of experience.

So, my question is, will he use this system with the new King Crimson? I find it hard to see them reworking old material or playing only new material, let alone convincing Adrian Belew to basically start >from scratch! I hope to hear a radically new Crimson, with a new sound, but it seems logical that they will play old eighties standards, seeing as how it is essentially the same group.

A related question: I greatly enjoy Tony Levin's stick work with King Crimson, Peter Gabriel, ABWH, Pink Floyd, etc. etc. etc. and Trey Gunn's album _Raw Power_, but I know nearly nothing about it. 10 strings, right? What is the tuning? What is its origin? It's so interesting.

I also want to reply to the question about the Asia live album. The recording is okay, and being from Rhino, its as complete a reissue as it can be. I don't have my copy with me at the moment, but there are "covers" of Starless and Book of Saturday. Wetton's voice is strong, and the guiarist does a passable job on Fripp's parts. However, both are pitifully short and seemingly there only to sucker people like me into buying their albums. I don't even like Asia! I was hoping for a sort of Starless jam, but it's very much like the Frame by Frame edit.

See y'all next week (sorry, I've been going to college in North Carolina for just a little too long . . .)

Chad Ossman


Date:    Wed, 13 Oct 1993 17:36:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: MACDOUGA at SRCL dot SUNNYBROOK dot UTORONTO dot CA
Subject: Fripp/Sylvian in Toronto:Correction to price

Hi there

I just want to correct a mistake I made in last weeks issue. The price for Fripp/Sylvian tickets in Toronto is $32.00 (CDN) not $29.00 (CDN) as I had previously stated.

John MacDougall


From: chris at NINJAVAX dot MC dot DUKE dot EDU
To: toby%cs dot manchester dot ac dot uk at cs dot duke dot edu
Message-ID: <009739cc dot f3e21260 dot 5087 at NINJAVAX dot MC dot DUKE dot EDU>
Subject: Box Set

Does anybody know anything about the supposed release of another live Crimson box set? Its supposed to have material from the earliest incarnations of Crimson, 1969-72. When Fripp released the "Great Deceiver" box he said that two more were on the way, this earliest one due fall of this year, and eighties live material due the middle of next year. WHERE IS IT? Also- is there any word on the release of the Fripp-Eno disc, supposedly the third in the No pussyfooting, Evening Star trilogy?


From: "I am Barney. Please kill me." <epb3r at uva dot pcmail dot virginia dot edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:01:58 EDT
Subject: belew etc.

I saw Adrian last Thursday in Baltimore. I don't think he said anything relevant that hasn't been said already (at the Paradise show, which everybody seems to have been to). Great show - about 2 hours long including the questions. One thing that he did mention (though it's a little bit late now) is that the Bears (or some of them) will join him at the Cincinnatti show(s?) - which I think were this past Monday or so.

If anybody has a good quality recording of any of these shows that he's doing (esp. the Cincinnatti one), I've got lots to trade and would like to get a copy.

Erik
epb3r at virginia dot edu


Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 22:58:23 -0500 (EST)
From: BRIARS at Butler dot EDU
Subject: Interesting

After getting this account just one month ago, it is really nice to read something full of quality. I think the digest DISCIPLINE is great. I will continue to read from here at Butler University in Indianapolis, Indiana, USA.

[[ Thank you Jonathan... -- Toby ]]

Although you might already know these things, I may have some information about Belew and King Crimson. After seeing Adrian Belew in concert in Cincinnati on October 11, I have some up to date information to pass along.

Well, if you find any of this information interesting and would like me to expand on it, send me a message. If you have any questions to ask Adrian Belew, I am attending a concert here in Indianapolis on Tuesday, October 19. I look forward to getting in contact with you soon. Thanks for a great digest.

	Toodles,

	Jonathan Aaron Briars
	In%"briars at butleru dot bitnet"


Mike Stok