Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1109 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1109 Sunday, 23 March 2003 Today's Topics: Re: A tour expense "break-down" and justification of ticket price length of king crimson shows and the milwaukee show Re: KC-drummers & poll "circulation" & "thrakking" ? Re: Doors question Facts Of Life and more Beatles references Tour cost Kc versus Phish FW: TPTB, Horns, Touring Denver Show Cancelled Due to Bad Weather Tour Expense Justification..blah, blah, blah I"'ve Got tthe Pow-uh!" Guitar Signing Bobbing Bobby Concert Tickets Re: 'through childrens eyes' Elektrik, words, Tim Faulkner; LARKS 1-4 Set Lengths Re: A tour expense "break-down" and justification of ticket price KC in OZ? TPtB ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:32:53 -0500 From: Wayne Bealer Subject: Re: A tour expense "break-down" and justification of ticket price In response to "Jordan Clifford" GrooveHolmes394 at hotmail dot com: I believe KC incurs a larger expense than PHISH just because of the equipment they have to lug around. From what I hear of PHISH's music, the equipment they need is pretty basic: no large banks of digital processors, large arrays of pedals, or other types of highly sophiticated equipment. (It has been awhile since I have looked at the equipment list KC takes on tour, perhaps some other more technically minded members of the ET list can chime in). Also, contrary to popular belief, the smaller the venue, the greater the overhead per ticket. To rent the 1,700 seat performing arts center here in Reading actually costs more per seat than to rent the 7,000 seat arena down the street. Therefore, to put on a concert at the performing arts center, the lowest priced ticket, assuming a 90 percent house-which would be approximately the breakeven point-is $15.00; but to put on the same concert in the arena the lowest ticket price would drop to about $10.00. But the promoter has to assume the seats are about 90 percent full for the math to work. But if you keep the ticket prices as if you were in the performing arts center- that is, minimum price of $15.00-and rent the arena but only have 1,500 people show, the promoter would not make enough money to cover the cost of the arena rental, let alone, the performers. By the way, to cost to rent the Reading Symphony Orchestra-an 60-piece ensemble-in 1998 (which the local Jazz Fest did) was about $60,000 (this does not include arena rental). Remember, that cost is just for the sixty musicians to show up, do one rehearsal and the performance. [I suspect with all of KC's equipment and overhead involved the moving and setting up, the cost is about the same.] Similarly, when you take those same 60 musicians, add the performing arts center cost, stage-hand costs, two more rehearsals, promotions, overhead for the office personnel and a few years inflation, the cost for our local symphony orchestra to put on a typical subscription concert today suddenly jumps to over $200,000. --Wayne Jonas Bealer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 18:37:53 -0800 (PST) From: avraham stoler Subject: length of king crimson shows and the milwaukee show well let me first say that there is a very clear reason why shows arent too long now. Bill Bruford is not there anymore. only Bill can play pre 1995 material the way it should be. (and this is not to discredit Pat. he is a great drummer. but Bill is the best in the world) therefore, only 95 and later material is played. end of story. there's not enough of it to fill 3 hours. you can actually read evidence about that in some of the liner notes of crim cd's. i was in the Milwaukee show. it was simply great. 2 hours. well even if it was 3 it wasnt enough. better go and see the shows before they depart to japan. im happy to report that security were nice and didnt bug people during the show. unlike in some other performances i heard about. hopefully someone took this point into consideration. Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:46:14 EST From: DrBaht at aol dot com Subject: Re: KC-drummers & poll Jerry Marotta remains my favorite , but Pat should get an honourable mention for "Damage". >I still think Vinnie Colaiuta's free polyrhythmic contributions for example to the 3 acts of "Joe's Garage" are unbelievable (what does Zappa say inbetween? - "I'm suffering with the click track right now" :o) Or just listen to his intense drumming on top of the 19/16-bassfigure in "Keep itgreasy"!) I agree. Glad that you brought up the name of the greatest drummer of all time cuz Colaiuta has no equal. Attitude, Precision, Technical Proficiency. And he can handle all styles of music with such conviction. I also enjoy hearing his playing with Sting during the nineties. You want to talk about " doing your own thing " and yet still playing for the song, then I can think of no better example. His ability to groove while playing in odd time signatures is astounding. I'd also recommend "Thanks to Frank" by Warren Cuccurullo...tis fierce. -bahtoology runs amok "catch the troll" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:54:37 +0100 From: "lichtafee" Subject: "circulation" & "thrakking" ? Hello! Why do so many ET-posters compare TPTB with older material and call it a mixture of this and that? In my opinion, TPTB (together with the - compositionally maybe superior? - COL) includes some original approaches to composition and band-structure, that are surely as significant for the current line-up as the interlocking style was for the 80s-line up! I refer to the stuff Fripp seemingly calls "circulation" and "thrakking", which are around in KC's music since "Thrak" and the 1997-rehearsals (maybe even earlier in Guitar Craft?). Surely everybody recognised that, as these compositional concepts make up the elements, that to a large degree make some of KC's music of the recent years sound so very original. What nevertheless makes me doing this ET-post is my question about the terms for this (I'm just curious about this trivia as I never heard another rock band using these compositional techniques!) In pieces like LTIA 4, Elektrik, Level 5, some ProjeKcts' pieces and (probably the most virtuos masterpiece in this respect?) TCOL the guitars play alternating (and overlapping) lines - sometimes as simple echo-notes, sometimes rhythmically in the same echoing manner but transposed, sometimes adding notes rhythmically more freely to a resulting mixture of single and dual melodical lines (this specific case just directing to the original 80's interlocking-style). I hope I'm not getting on people's nerves with this technical trivia, but to me, this seems to be pretty different from that "old" interlocking-style, as the latter requires rather parallel and constant lines, that basically "exchange" or "interlock" single notes of respectively shared register-regions - which hardly happens in the same manner in the new pieces. (Well, right at this moment I also begin to wonder why the interlocking part of TCOL beginning at around 3:00 is so often referred to, while the same piece includes that significantly NEW approach in the 3 minutes before that???). Now, is this more recently used alternating/overlapping stuff properly referred to as "circulation"? Again the same with that other typical current KC-"clichee": both guitars playing different odd meters, only executing the stressed beats of the given meters with short dissonant chords (like 11 - Fripp's favorite? - against 5 or something like that - what, by the way, reminds me of the improvisational approach in Zappa's "Toads of the short forest" from 1968/69). This surely is an important element of what makes LTIA 4, Oyster soup, the middle-part of Level 5, the Thrak-theme, some ProjeKcts' music and even the chorus of HWWYHTBHW sound so beautifully tricky and rhythmically disorientating. Well, on the one hand I remember Fripp calling the improvisational parts around "Thrak" "thrakking" (liner-notes to "Thrakattak"), but I also vaguely remember him writing in his diary about "thrakking" as a technical approach or exercise in Guitar Craft. So, are maybe the aforementioned polymetric guitar-layers called "thrakking"? (with the shortly struck guitarchords going something like "thrak - - thrak - - thrak"?). I've just wondered about that for some time now, maybe somebody could make this more clear to me? Greetings, Joerg P.S. To round this off: the compositional devices I tried to describe above and the instrumental voice of each player added surely make this group a completely original unit - I can hardly hear anything similar to "Red" or "Discipline" in this current line-up (of course aside from some overall crimsonesque characteristics). In a way, this band ITSELF more and more becomes a "composition", so indeed: another new wheel. (I only wish they wouldn't "waste" so much of that beautifully grown bandtexture by playing blues and Nu metal-parodies!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 11:03:41 -0500 From: "hologram" Subject: Re: Doors question >Lance , your' re right, it has nothing to-do with KC, but what are you >taking,can we help you, your are plainly not of this planet! >embraces >Alan +++++++++++++++++ I hate to venture again away from the KC format, but in the interest of information towards the goal of knowledge, I must reply. (insults I can handle,but the ridiculing of facts is less tolerable,if not dangerous) I'm not sure which planet I'm from,but I did take the time to research my statements. In the credits for the Doors In Concert CD Ray Manzarek is listed for Organ and Keyboard Bass. There is a photo inside with the Keyboard Bass on top of his organ. (they do exist,I've played one although I won't attest to any proficiency) Also inside the Doors Absolutely Live album it is clearly visible in a photo. But I decided to make sure that I wasn't still delusional....at least in this concern. I re-watched a 1968 European concert, plus some other live clips from the Dance On Fire video compilation. Ray does play the bass on a keyboard on stage. Nothing as complex as Tony Levin or Trey Gunn, but competent non the less. I assumed this was common knowledge for anyone familiar with 60s music, but I suppose it is such an anomaly,it seems 'strange'. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:29:09 -0800 (PST) From: lee wallace Subject: Facts Of Life and more Beatles references Since there have been a few posts dissing "Facts Of Life", I just want to chime in that I for one enjoy that track very much. It was especially ripping when performed live. What's wrong with a little funtime riffery with your KC? Bring it on I say. Did anyone else notice the slight Lennon/Beatles reference that Adrian made at the end of the Asheville show on 2/28? He said before leaving the stage "thank you for making me sweat and forget who I am!" - a quote from Lennon's tune "Suprise Suprise Sweet Bird Of Paradox"...well stated, Ade! -lw ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:48:18 -0700 From: "Gordon Puls" Subject: Tour cost Kc versus Phish It may be that Phish can afford to take a little less from each fan considering they are able to guarantee a complete advance sell-out for any 22,000+ seat venue in the country. Considering King Crimson is playing venues that seat less than 1,000 people many nights on a U.S. tour, and not selling out until the week of the show if at all, they may need to get a few more dollars per head to make ends meet. 800 people at $50 each is $40,000. 22,000 people at $35 each is $770,000. You can see how Phish ends up with a little bit more of a budget for lights and crew while charging less. This explains why String Cheese Incident in Denver with Crimson opening is a cheaper ticket than Crimson by themselves in the same city the night before- they are able to play a significantly larger venue and sell tickets to a greater number of fans. I understand the price, but I do echo the sentiment regarding concerns about show length. I am used to seeing "jam" oriented bands myself- and saw some of my favorites 5-10 times each last year. I would love to hear the more recent Crimson songs take on significantly different personalities different nights, and stretch out into longer improvisations like they apparently did during "Great Deceiver" era Crimson tours. That is the harmful expectation I come to the table with, tough to overcome after traveling along with a band like Phil and Friends or Phish to see runs of 6 or 7 consecutive shows by the same band for at least 3 hours a night (with few songs repeated more than twice in said timeframe). King Crimson can be a beautiful experience, though, and well worth the cost even for the short while they occupy the stage. When King Crimson played the Fox Theatre in Boulder on the night preceding the Tool/Crimson Red Rocks show, I had a truly religious experience. Unfortunately the shows I've seen since then have not been much different musically, and because of the comparison to things I get from my ticket dollar when I see other bands I am starting to establish rules like "I will never again go to see them in a venue with seats" or "I will never travel far just to see two shows on a tour." I do hear differences from show to show of course, but the differences are not what the show is about. Someone will surely reply that this band is just not for me, which is too bad because I never miss a recording King Crimson releases. I really do love the songs. I don't have any studio recordings of Phish or the Grateful Dead, but there are piles of ticket stubs and live archival releases lying around here for those and similar artists. My only rule regarding live shows by my favorite improv-oriented acts is "See as many shows as you can without losing your job." This is comparing apples and oranges, though. Crimson is not a predominantly improvisational act, and the only way to fill big venues playing the same songs every night is to appeal to the indiscriminate radio listener or the mosh-pitting teenager. It looks like I will miss the latest Crimson experience tonight, anyway. The snow here in Colorado has eaten my car, and there does not seem to be much hope of it being regurgitated before show time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:36:58 -0800 From: Brian Mafi Subject: FW: TPTB, Horns, Touring Heyhihowdy, Yet another crimguy chucking accolades re: TPTB. It really does sound superb (Machine, take a bow...), sequenced well, alternating light/dark/heavy/soft, and just a real coherent unified package. I think these guys are on a roll...here's hoping the rigors/consequences of touring don't sour Robert on giving live performance; he certainly stated his misgivings about tourlife in one of those current interviews. This band is such a joy to behold live, I'm getting amped about seeing them 3/29/03 @ the Wiltern. Saw the Bears there mid -80's (I'm holding up my claws...GRRRR!) The "horns" onstage...um, they strike me as being a representation of the "window frames" on the new album cover...anyone else see that? The possibly new debate topic of tour pricing: I'm no expert on this subject, but I would bet a coupla dollars that Britney is corporate sponsored on tour. As Phish has a larger fanbase than Crim, I'd think they could expect a larger crowd, play a larger venue, and set ticket prices accordingly. I don't recall the base price of the Crimson tix...of course, TicketBastard has to extract assloads of money for seemingly nonsensical charges ("convenience charge"? convenient for who, you f_ _ cks?!?). My fur is coming up... Don't get me started on the ethics behind the big business of the music/touring biz. I personally am happy that the large record companies are floundering...they've been raping musicians and music lovers since the beginning of the music biz, and deserve every bit of misfortune they receive, and them some. I feel sorry for the footsoldiers in the trenches, who do it for the love of music, but the fatcats setting policy, kowtowing to corporate heads/the "stockholders" wishes to keep profits increasing...I hope you're consigned to an eternity of discomfort, repeated non-lubricated anal penetration, and bad music pumped through earphones nailed to your heads. And then, I hope it gets worse. There..I feel better! Have a Nice Day :) Brian, who really is a nice, guy, really! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:33:08 -0700 From: "David Brandt" Subject: Denver Show Cancelled Due to Bad Weather Tonight's (3/19) show at the Gothic Theatre in Denver, Colorado has been cancelled due to a major snow storm in the Denver, Colorado area. No details on a new date or ticket refunds. The show tomorrow opening up for the String Cheese Incident at the Fillmore in Denver is still on but that may change. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:48:04 -0500 From: "Block Dog" Subject: Tour Expense Justification..blah, blah, blah >Phish's shows are held in some of the bigger arenas around the coutnry such >as the Continental Airlines Arena. This venue hold MANY MANY MANY more >people than the Town Hall in NYC, and while I Think the Town Hall show was >close to or completely sold out by the start of the show, The CA Arena was >completely sold out for Phish in a short amount of time months before the >show. What does that say? Jordan, you answered your own question. Expenses aside: If Phish sells out an arena that holds, oh let's say 8,034. ( I use that number because that is the capicity of a local arena ) 8, 034 x $35.00 = $281,190.00 While a Crim show plays just over the mountain in a venue that holds 900 people max at 50 bux. 900 x $50.00 = $45000.00 I use 900 because that's what The Orange Peel holds and the tickets were actually only $25.00. 900 x $25.00 = $22500.00 Now who does it look like is overcharging ? When you can sell tickets to larger crowds you can afford to lower your ticket prices. The length of show issue is seperate, Phish is much younger and I was very happy with the length of the KC show so I have no complaints on either issue. block ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:13:53 -0500 From: "josh chasin" Subject: I"'ve Got tthe Pow-uh!" Unfortunately business took me out of town during Crim's stop in NYC, and I know that you folks have been having at the intricacies of the new album in far greater detail than I am either inclined or capable of doing. But I did want to chime in, as it were; forgive me if at this late date my comments are redundant. I wasn't crazy about TCOL. It just struck me as harsh, uninviting, dark, and down (now let me save you the time: yes, I know, these are often hallmarks of some of the band's best work.) Of course there was no question that the playing was superlative; I just wasn't wild about the music. But it was always four great musicians playing that music. Since then, I'd seen Crim 3 or 4 times, and have enjoyed both EPs and the Club release of the 2001 Nashville material. I found myself inexorably drawn in to the new music-- Level Five, Dangerous Curves, Electrik, all of it. This new album is simply remarkable. Now, instead of hearing talented musicians playing music, I hear the sound of this unearthly music playing four talented musicians. To me that is as good as it gets. The music breathes, occupies space, my God, it is alive in the room with you. The clarity, the tones, the color, the groupmind interplay-- it is all, remarkably, there. If I had one complaint-- and I don't mean to complain-- I could have actually lived with an all-instrumental album. This is no knock on Adrian's singing or lyrics, I've been a fan of his since someone first explained to me that the guy on Remain In Light was the same guy on the Zappa stuff. It's just that, while I understand that sometimes records call for "songs" which means lyrics, I am not convinced that the power and majesty and crystal beauty-- and sometimes ugly beauty-- of this music requires words. I am quite sorry I was away for the NY gigs. I am sure these shows are something special. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:10:27 -0600 From: wviland at thin-film dot com Subject: Guitar Signing Saw the gig in Milwaukee at the Medjeska Theater. Good venue for KC. The ambiance there is monumental, exiting, dangerous, and rustic. Place probably holds about 1500, but only just over 500 persons attended. Must have cost the band dearly to play that gig. Anyway, low attendance was to my benefit, allowing me to roam and learn what I could. The audience was respectful to my observation, and the band played very well. I drove 6 hours one way to see the band for the fourth time in three years. And I am certainly not disappointed. After the show Adrian and Trey topped the night off by signing my Fernandes Vertigo Elite: http://www.fernandesguitars.com/guitars/vertigo.html Adrian, My brother pointed out that I lied to you in telling you that it was 'THEE' guitar which you were holding in the picture. I did lie, unintentionally. I know you go so many places and do so many things that I guessed you probably had forgotten the model. Therefore, I said yes this is thee guitar (meaning thee model). I had just been talking to Trey, who couldn't remember ever being at the Medjeska and talking with me just 2 years ago. So, sorry and Thank You........ Also, looking forward to the Les Claypool recording. Trey, I forgot to tell you how much I enjoyed your work with Sean and Gordian Knot. Anyway, it has come to pass. All the excitement building to Robert playing the first note. Then, I blinked and I'm back at work. How I envy those of you that are still waiting. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:37:55 -0500 From: Tom Law Subject: Bobbing Bobby > If you haven't seen Fripp's interview it's on-line at > http://www.king-crimson.com/kcrfpc1f.html And, it's a whole bunch of fun to scroll up and down the page quickly, to watch Robert's head bounce up and down. Well, it's fun for about 10 seconds, anyhow. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 13:59:29 -0800 (PST) From: B K Partridge Subject: Concert Tickets Tickets cost varying amounts because different agents/promoters can get the same venues for different prices, depending on who the act is. They also cost varying amounts because different artists pay their crews different amounts of money. Some artists bring their own lighting/stage/sound people, and some use the venues'. And last but not least important, the artists' representatives might set prices higher, or lower, depending on their marketing strategy. Some ticket prices are more expensive if the artist is in high demand. At the last Britney Spears tour, some seats were as much as $350 each - and that's before the resellers get a hold of them. Some tickets are less expensive if the artist has less of a "machine" behind them - for example, if the artist puts out their own albums and employs their own people to do pr and marketing they are doing things more cheaply than if they have to pay back the record company for doing these things for them. They also may be able to set their own ticket prices - so they may charge more, if they think they can get it, or less, if they think that would be more morally right. My guess is that King Crimson and Co. know that while they may not have an enormous fan base, they have a very loyal fan base, and that fan base will come out to see them whether they charge $37 a ticket, or $52 a ticket. As an aside, I remember Robert saying in an interview a few years ago that he thought the ticket prices were too high to attract a young fan base. But perhaps he changed his mind after touring with Tool, who charge plenty for their tickets. The Wombat ===== "The person who today is here May by tomorrow disappear." - Edward Gorey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:51:43 -0500 From: Brian Preston Subject: Re: 'through childrens eyes' Regarding this e mail from Greg Amann: "From: "Greg Amann" .... And that's what children think. I am somewhat concerned that my 9 year old immediately knew the smell of marijuana ;-)" This was cute and amusing but also a bit disconcerting. Now I'm not some out of touch old crimudgeon (sp?) but bringing a 9 year old and an 11 year old to a Crimson concert seems a borderline endeavor, IMHO. I have a boy almost 11 and girl 9, so very nearly the same situation. First off I doubt my wife would ever let me bring my kids to a Crimson concert (not that that is a benchmark) but even if she did I dont think I would. As a musician and them as budding musicians it 'could' be a good experience, but I doubt it. Although exposed to heavy doses of Crimson and my progressive bands (Smokin'Granny et al, concerts which they rarely attend) My kids are not into the heavy walls of diminished melodic structure that Crim eminates (and that my groups often do). My son did enjoy the song HTBHW at home on CD in my many listens prior to the Asheville, NC show, but get to LTIA4, etc, and forget it. PLus, exposure to chemical amusement in an adult venue is unwarrented. BTW, where in the hell were you that you could smoke in a concert venue?? Having said that, I did take my kids to see Jethro Tull in an outdoor amphitheatre - they were bored silly after about 30 minutes - (and me jumping around like a fool singing Thick as a Brick!) peace out ************************************************************************ Brian Preston/Metaphoric Music Productions Smokin'Granny http://meta4ik.home.mindspring.com/smokingranny http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/smokingranny2 (sound files) Krimson News Radio http://www.live365.com/stations/crim75 (SG in rotation) Onomata http://www.umbrellarecordings.com/feature.html Groove Stream Attractor http://hometown.aol.com/tjohn62124/groovestreamattractor.html http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue20/groove01.html ******** ******** ******** ******** "When people are coupled together through musicking, each steers his or her own raft of subjectivity into the collective sea of neurodynamics." William Benzon in 'Beethoven's Anvil: Music in Mind & Culture' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 01:11:46 +0100 From: "Tomek" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Toronto through childrens eyes Hello, 1. I wonder why this topic hasn't been posted here before, but didn't you wonder what does the strange robotlike voice on Elektrik say? According to sleeve notes, voice source on Elektrik is Tim Faulkner. Who is he? Are his words sampled or did he do a special performance for TPTB? And if it's so, who wrote the words for him? Adrian? Many questions around... BTW, the piece is stunning. Did you hear Pat doing that "ting" at 7:22? I love it! 2. A few issues ago i've posted some thoughts about Larks 1-, but no one replied to that -IMHO- interesting topic. I wondered why Krim hasn't ever played all four parts of LTIA in a row. And why boys aren't doing that now, when they are able to manage with more gentle parts of LTIA 1 (just listen to TPTB 2...) Personally, I think it would be great to hear the Larks Suite in it's full might.Or maybe we shouldn't think of it as of one piece... Isn't LTIA 1-4 an amazing voyage through all these things that unites KC music in it's history? Tomek Talerzak ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:05:03 -0500 From: bruce higgins Subject: Elektrik, words, Tim Faulkner; LARKS 1-4 >>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:50:01 -0500 >From: "Jordan Clifford" >Subject: a plea > >>Now lets get to the negitives: ticket says 7:30...band came on past 8:00; >why did I rush to get in?? >>With no opening act, the entire experience was too short; getting out of a >show on a Saturday night before 10:00!!!! Why not two sets?? >>By all means, the negitives didn't come close to out-weighing this great >show, I just wish there was more of it! > >Yes, I couldn't agree more. >If the worst thing the TRUE FANS are saying about King Crimson shows are >that they are TOO SHORT!!! and because of that too expensive, then they >arent doing so bad. If they fans are begging for more, why not give them >more? >I mean, I know Robert is old, but I don't know anyone who goes to bed by >10:30. Concerts are not supposed to end at 10 or 10:30. I got out of the >show looking for something to do with the rest of my night. I know I'm >young, but sometimes I don't even start my nights activities until 10:30.. >If you guys like your new songs, and you like playing live then WHY NOT PLAY >LIVE LONGER!?! its what the fans want!! Its a freakin compliment! but it >turns into an insult to the fan. I personally think that it is ridiculous to >say that an audience should be lucky to get an encore from a band, and >should not expect it from KC. >if any member of KC is reading this... >PLEASE MAKE YOUR SETS LONGER!!!! whatever that means.. more songs, older >songs, new in the works songs, improvs, soundscapes, casual chats with the >audience, anything.. id perfer all of the above actually. First off, this time thru the States, KC is not coming near enough for me to see them. I do not complain, they can only play so many cities. I wish that my biggest gripe was "King Crimson didn't play long enough". Secondly, when you say "I know Robert is old", you do not understand what it is to be old. I am 43, more than a decade 'fresher' than Robert. There are days when I have some trouble getting out of bed. I think that for someone of any age to come out and perform at the level that Robert does is extraordinary. That he choses to essay it at his age is phenomenal. Be grateful for what you have. (Be Happy With What You Have to Be Happy With) "Concerts are not supposed to end at 10 or 10:30?" I don't recall seeing that in the Bill of Rights. Sorry if the rest of us can't live up to your social agenda,Chester. I'd rather watch KC play from 9 to 10 than watch any other band play from 8 to 4:30 am. I did see three shows on the last tour, and I did think they were 'too short'. Not by the clock, not because (insert your favorite jam band here) played 4 hours for $20 the last time you saw them, but just because the weight of the music seeemed undermined when they stopped after an hour. Fripp often says that the music that they play has a life of its own, and it seems like they have slightly stifled that life on the last two tours. Not because we're 'owed' X hours of entertainment. But because the music demands its own completeness, and the sets they've played the last two tours don't *quite* get there. Sorry to contribute to the over-wordliness of E-talk, but this kind of post frosts my pumpkin... B___ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:37:08 -0500 From: John Trevethan Subject: Set Lengths Jordan Clifford wrote: >If all that stuff that you listed in your post makes the ticket price 50 >dollars, then explain to me why other bands who have MUCH bigger fan bases, >who play MUCH bigger venues I think that you have answered your own question... if a popular artist plays to an audience 10 times the size of a KC crowd than they can charge less per ticket and still make more in the end. Example: KC in small theaters - $50/ticket x 2000 = $100,000 "Big" artist in stadiums - $30/ticket x 20000 = $600,000 Even with the increased cost of production the stadium artist has a LOT more $$$ to play with. I don't know the actual cost of a stadium sized production, perhaps someone here knows the details of such a thing? -- J o h n T r e v e t h a n http://www.trevethan.com/john john at trevethan dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:35:08 +0800 From: Errol Tout Subject: Re: A tour expense "break-down" and justification of ticket price It would be lovely if KC came to Australia. I guess the problem is that it takes 15 hours to fly from LA to Sydney. Then to get to Perth it takes another 5.5 hours. It takes 15 hours to get from London to Singapore Then a further 5.5 hours to get to Perth. I guess I should stop now shouldn't I? Sigh.... But gee - the weather's nice and there's lots of nice people here. Errol H. Tout Architect Lecturer Chair Design Communication Stream Enrolments Officer Faculty of the Built Environment, Art and Design Curtin University of Technology GPO Box U 1987 Perth Western Australia 6845 Ph. 61 8 92663843 Fax 61 8 92662711 > 'CRICOS provider code 00301J' > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 03:07:14 -0500 From: "sportsterrpm1" Subject: KC in OZ? Good evening Hippies ! This new album TPTB is (IMHO) the best Crimson album yet!!! Bar none !!! You know how they say that you can hear a musician's influences by how they play? WOW !!! Listen to P@ on this album... I hear Bill Bruford's influence in a big way !!! But the strange thing is, that it's not the Bruford from recent years that I hear,,, I hear Bruford from Yes's Fragile and KC's USA album ! A very good study in early Bruford ,Indead !!! Bill had better watch himself if he ever returns to the fold.... P@ is very serious... Trey Gunn has never been finer !!! This is the album that puts the touch guitar on the map !!! I hear Jaco Pastorius, Leven, Fripp, and even some Gunn in his playing ... For those who complained that they couldn't hear him with the double trio, YOUR HEARING HIM NOW !!!! Adrian is a chameleon !!! I can't think of any other artist that can transform themselves like Adrian can !!! ( OK !!! Maybe Michael Jackson !!!) But Adrian does it tastefully !!! And with really COOL guitar effects !!! You Gotta admit?!? Dear old uncle Bobby is by far a genius !!! People wonder what Hendrix or Bolin might have accomplished had they lived longer... My hero was Fripp !!! Thank you for being Fripp and Taking care of yourself !!! This is your Masterpiece !!! Goodevening Hippies, ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1109 *********************************