Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1107 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1107 Tuesday, 18 March 2003 Today's Topics: KC in Australia? Re: astute feline barometer re.: price complaints Re: Doors Question Happy Lyrics Re: i'm going to bring a laser pointer too a plea The Power to Believe lyrics KCats I'd like to hear Crimson do a cover of one of Tool's songs. KC Wallpapers Through a distortion box.. Re: No Power To Believe TPTB A tour expense "break-down" and justification of ticket price GIG REVIEW: Detroit Concert 3/13 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:31:39 +1100 From: "S. Zjakic" Subject: KC in Australia? G' day all, King Crimson to tour Australia? Good to hear those rumours again! They kept us (Aussie KC fans) going for some time following the release of TCOL. Alas, in the end nothing happened... The excuse from the KC management was that our dollar was so weak at the time and the costs of coming to Australia so high that nobody could afford to buy tickets for the show. I am happy to report that the Aussie dollar has recovered since then (about 20 - 30 %) and that it is getting more and more profitable for international acts to tour Australia. Just ask Red Hot Chilli Peppers, Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, Good Charlotte, Laurie Anderson, Norah Jones, The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Brian Adams, Johnny Marr, Santana, etc. Can we have something official from people in the know about the possibility of King Crimson coming to Australia later this year? And how about some loud support for that from Aussie fans... I mean, now that my missus is taking our nine-year-old daughter to see Avril Lavigne in June, I could take my best mate Dave to see King Crimson... Sam Zjakic. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:24:14 -0600 From: Craig Subject: Re: astute feline barometer >I slapped on Lizard (annoying even at apartment-level volume) Their masterwork. A pox on thee! >...and cranked it. The family cat woke up, became quite agitated and >even left the room--unusual, because it only moves under the stimulus of >food, in vectors connecting its chair, cat dish, and the back door. She >seemed to hate it--yeah, its a female cat Figures........ >--although a simple aversion to Jon >Anderson cannot be ruled out. Bingo! (...but he does a fine job on Lizard) > About a year later I got Level 5 at a local KC appearance. So the cat >and I settled in again and . . .nothing. Not even a tail twitch or dirty >look. The question then became, a)Are these guys losin` it, or b) is the cat >just getting old? "A little from column A, & a little from column B" ~Abraham Simpson >Now I have got the new one, and this time the cat actually puked! And she >never does that. So now the question is, a)Are these guys back, better than >ever, or b) is my cat just sick? "Call the vet"!!! ~C ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:04:06 -0600 From: Jon Buckley Subject: re.: price complaints To add to Jason's recent rant regarding ticket prices, I believe the venue has some requirements regarding means, method and mass of ticket payment parcel price posting. That is to say, I am glad that Park West is hosting my local Krimson endeavor. I also realize that this may involve elevated costs. Keeps the riff-raff out (I hope) we'll see. Old Ears P.S.: I'd pay twice as much to see these guys. And, guess what, these guys know it. If people are willing to pay scalpers (i.,e.: leeches) to get the tickets one wants, wouldn't it be better if the artists (the guys who create the music) actually reaped the benefits of their enthusiasm? Isn't that fair? Same with boots, BTW. The fact is that WE are to credit or to blame for the current situation. People may tell you that one vote doesn't matter. Those people are ignorant and short-sited. Each of us is in control, and through the power of purchase, we also vote. If we steal music, we will be given music worthy of theft, i.e.: crap. If we value music, we will get music worthy of being valued. You make the choice, and the pebble you cast produces ripples beyond the horizons you perceive. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 00:25:11 EST From: AmazingPeaceFrog at aol dot com Subject: Re: Doors Question There new bassist for the reunion is Angelo Barbera. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 07:48:23 +0000 From: Craig Ward Subject: Happy Lyrics What's the second line of the second verse? And for a second verse ....................... I'll brew another pot Of ambiguity By the way, I've just heard The Mars Volta for the first time - they rock. And they inhabit the same planet as the old geezers that inspire this here newsletter, methinks. Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:21:27 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: i'm going to bring a laser pointer too >I plan to bring a laser pointer to shine into Fripp's eyes all night, when I'm not fumbling with my DAT recorder and flash camera, smoking cigarettes and weed the whole time and blowing it at Adrian while my cell phone rings during soundscapes. And I plan to yell out for Cat Food and maybe Freebird. I'm no faithful audient, I'm a True Fan!! >>If you are serious, I hope you get kicked out of the theater quickly. If you are >>joking, it's not a funny joke. You obviously don't have much of a sense of humor. I thought it was obviously a joke, and I thought it was damn funny. but that's just me. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:50:01 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: a plea >Now lets get to the negitives: ticket says 7:30...band came on past 8:00; why did I rush to get in?? >With no opening act, the entire experience was too short; getting out of a show on a Saturday night before 10:00!!!! Why not two sets?? >By all means, the negitives didn't come close to out-weighing this great show, I just wish there was more of it! Yes, I couldn't agree more. If the worst thing the TRUE FANS are saying about King Crimson shows are that they are TOO SHORT!!! and because of that too expensive, then they arent doing so bad. If they fans are begging for more, why not give them more? I mean, I know Robert is old, but I don't know anyone who goes to bed by 10:30. Concerts are not supposed to end at 10 or 10:30. I got out of the show looking for something to do with the rest of my night. I know I'm young, but sometimes I don't even start my nights activities until 10:30.. If you guys like your new songs, and you like playing live then WHY NOT PLAY LIVE LONGER!?! its what the fans want!! Its a freakin compliment! but it turns into an insult to the fan. I personally think that it is ridiculous to say that an audience should be lucky to get an encore from a band, and should not expect it from KC. at least on Level Five I got to see another awesome band open for them, and while I still complained that King Crimson's set was too short, I couldn't say it wasnt a complete night. if any member of KC is reading this... PLEASE MAKE YOUR SETS LONGER!!!! whatever that means.. more songs, older songs, new in the works songs, improvs, soundscapes, casual chats with the audience, anything.. id perfer all of the above actually. thank you Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:06:26 +0100 From: Julien Perriard Subject: The Power to Believe lyrics Hello, I've spent a few minutes typing the lyrics to The Power to Believe. I hope this helps. As suggested by Dan, it could appear on and ad hoc Elephant Talk page. By the way, excellent album! Now here it comes... Julien Perriard The power to believe She carries me through days of apathy She washes over me She saved my life, in a manner of speaking When she gave me back the power to believe Eyes wide open Here it comes Here comes another day Another decision on the way Well here it comes Here comes a color display Of preferences to make Here comes a knock on the door Open it for an opportunity Well here it comes Here comes a busy parade Of memories to be made Eyes wide open All the time There it was It was the perfect take And were you asleep or awake? Well there it was It was the perfect time To speak your mind There it was It was the chance of a lifetime Flew right by And what did you do? There it was There was another day For memories to be made Eyes wide open All the time Because you never know What you might see Facts of life Six million ants crawling on a plate Six million ants crawling on a plate None of them give back as much as they take Six million ants crawling on a plate Doesn't mean you should just because you can It doesn't mean you should just because you can Like Abraham and Ishmael fighting over sand It doesn't mean you should just because you can That is a fact of life That is a fact of life Now some of us build and some of us teach Some of us build, some of us teach Some of us kill what some of us eat That is a fact of life That is a fact of life Nobody knows what happens when you die Nobody knows what happens when you die Believe what you want, it doesn't mean you're right That is a fact of life That is a fact Happy with what you have to be happy with And when I have some words This is the way I'll sing Through a distortion box To make them menacing Then I'm gonna have to write a chorus We're gonna need to have a chorus And this would seem to be As good as any other place To sing it till I'm blue in the face And for a second verse Of terse economy I'll brew another pot Of ambiguity Happy with what... Then... I guess we'll repeat the chorus... Happy with what... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 23:31:27 +1300 From: David Maclennan Subject: KCats Re Rich Hovis's cat's aversion to KC.... I had a ginger tom back in the mid-90s who seemed to rather like KC. Any time I played a KC album he'd sit and listen most attentively. He seemed to particularly like THRAK and some of the Lark's-Red era stuff. Cheers, David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 06:22:47 -0600 From: Jeff Bridge Subject: I'd like to hear Crimson do a cover of one of Tool's songs. I'd love to witness or just hear King Crimson do a Tool cover. I think King Crimson could do justice to Reflection , 46&2 or H. Perhaps Myanard could even stop buy and sing it while King Crimson play the song and improvise over it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 11:49:38 -0300 From: "Stratomailer" Subject: KC Wallpapers Hello dear ETers, I was wondering if anyone knows of any site in the 'net where I can get some wallpapers, desktop themes, and all that funny stuff we love because it makes Windows 95 look better; the theme around these is, of course, King Crimson. Later! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:31:20 +0200 From: Eino Keskitalo Subject: Through a distortion box.. "..to make them more the same." To me this vein seemed to be repeated with "another line of ambiguity". Well, "to make them menacing" does now seem to make the most sense. Cheers, --Eino ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:10:55 EST From: Phreak1970 at aol dot com Subject: Re: No Power To Believe In ET #1104 "FS.Info" wrote: >>Bought it, listened to it and gave it away.Cat Food." Projekct 6,5 " or " Addy & The Crimson Bears".Surely explains why KC mostly plays easy audiences.< < That's funny stuff, friend, but I'm curious - which CD are you referring to? " Addy & The Crimson Bears" suggests to me a version of Krim based around Adrian's patented brand of pop song. I think it's safe to say that the songs on TPTB are anything BUT pop. This is not the eager defense of a fawning fanboy, but rather a statement of glaringly obvious truth. At any rate, I'm sorry you don't like the album. I think it's a vast improvement on TCOL (which I love, but have certain reservations about). Here's hoping this band can continue to shock, delight, surprise and piss people off for some time to come. sv ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:29:26 -0800 (PST) From: gregory kester Subject: TPTB I started getting excited at the first drumbeats of level 5 and I knew it was gonna be good. I could tell that Eyes Wide Open was a masterpiece right off and I'm in a deep love affair with Dangerous Curves! I'm still opening up to The Power To Believe 1-4 and The Facts of Life, while Electrik is great and HWWYHTBHW was already part of me(thanks for the free download). I'll be listening to a few of these songs for as long as I live, I have no doubt of that! They are right up there in the top 20 songs of my life, around 80% of which are King Crimson songs. I believed it would be good and indeed it was!!! Thank You, Greg Kester Oakland ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:28:39 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: A tour expense "break-down" and justification of ticket price >> I have read many complaints about ticket prices, tour gear prices, etc. >> Let us attempt to break this down: Does anyone here have any idea how much money it costs to rent a venue >for an evening? A ton, I'm sure. Next, the band must pay union wages for the stage hands. Light rental. Sound gear. Next they must pay their own sound >guys, management, etc. They must rent trucks to transport their gear. They must pay people to load, unload, and drive these trucks. They must pay hotel >and meal accomodations for these people. The band also must transport themselves from show to show, as well as feed and board themselves. . .this >too, costs money. Promoters must get paid. Did I mention GAS in these trucks? Get it? Before you fools go on complaining about prices, run the numbers. >Its not like the band gets 45 bucks per person times 3000 per night free and clear!!! Hell, I wish they did. > In the future, think Damn it! I don't think I've ever read more kiss-ass bullshit. Some people on this list think they know everything, and they also think they can find any reason at all for KC to do whatever they want. If all that stuff that you listed in your post makes the ticket price 50 dollars, then explain to me why other bands who have MUCH bigger fan bases, who play MUCH bigger venues, who have much bigger crews and many more people to pay and also COULD charge a lot because they are MUCH more popular than King Crimson, like say PHISH, only charge 30-35 dollars for their tickets? Explain to me, by your break down of all the expenses on a tour, why a tour that is Much more complicated, longer, and bigger and in bigger venues than KC's tour costs considerably less? Do you think Phish doesn't want to get paid for their hard work? I think comparing a band like Phish and their tour to a band like King Crimson and their tour is very reasonable. Put aside the fact that KC is legendary and have 30 years of brilliance and history behind them, with everything else the result is backwards. While King Crimson charges what a pop star like Britney Spears would charge for their shows, Britney's show incorporates a HUGE amount of dancers, singers, an entire backing band, choreography, lots of stage fx, big screens, large and complex lighting, what i'd imagine to be a huge crew of people not only working for Britney but working for the HUGE venues she plays who have to assemble and work on the elaborate set up of her show. She also works really hard to dance for the same amoutn of time Robert sits on a stool and plays, maybe longer. Add on to that that she is probably the biggest pop star in the world and can sell out the biggest colliseums. By your little breakdown, she should be charging at least 200 dollars per ticket based on that. But King Crimson plays real music, Britney dances to her prerecorded Neptunes-produced radiofriendly food for teen consumers. So while KC charges what Britney does, Phish charges a fairly reasonable price. Now, to compare the most recent Phish tour to the most recent King Crimson Tour: Phish is considerably more popular than King Crimson, and has been on a 2+ year hiatus frustrating the insane amounts of die hard fans around the country and world until they suddenly came out of their hiatus with a new album and a North American tour. King Crimson, on the other hand, while having a large amount of die hard fans across the world, and deserving many more, were never a mainstream band and while attaining legend status for those in the know, are no where near the popularity of Phish. They were on tour less than 2 years ago, and while people were dying to see them between 2001-2002, their hiatus was not at all a suprise and they put out a live disc and an EP in the mean time. Phish's shows are held in some of the bigger arenas around the coutnry such as the Continental Airlines Arena. This venue hold MANY MANY MANY more people than the Town Hall in NYC, and while I Think the Town Hall show was close to or completely sold out by the start of the show, The CA Arena was completely sold out for Phish in a short amount of time months before the show. What does that say? Phish is known for having a good lighting designer, and playin g in venues that allow much bigger lighting they take full advantage of that. King Crimson had good lighting, but not like Phish for obvious reasons. Phish plays 2 sets + at least one encore at EVERY SHOW, which usually lasts between 2-4 hours. King Crimson plays one set and hopefully 1 encore, this tour fortunately tending to have between 1-3 encores, lasting a total of between 1 hour or up to an hour and a half.. outside chance maybe 2 hours. I'm too tired to check out whose tour was longer and more widespread, but at this point it doesnt matter. In my opinion I think both bands put out really great, creative and experimental music that is real music and deserves praise. I think both tours were fantastic. I favor King Crimson over Phish for many reasons, but I liked Phish's show over King Crimson's for many reasons. KC blew me away, I love them, I Loved their show, and the cons of the show did NOT outweight the pros for me.. but the con's of the KC tour do outweight the pro's of the Phish tour. I love both bands, ultimately I love KC more.. but, still. So, If I am wrong about this I want to hear from other readers with real arguments and factual debates. The facts are this ( putting aside your opinions of the quality of music for both bands so you cant say 'KC puts out better music therefor i'd pay more to see them'): both great bands, but while Phish, after a 2 year hiatus and a MUCH anticipated new tour charge 37 dollars for their tickets to a show consisting of 2 sets + encore and considering the HIGH demand for tickets COULD have charged 100 per ticket and it still would have been popular, KC charges 50 dollars per ticket (or should i say Phish tickets end up costing 42 or so dollars at most and KC tickets end up being 55 dollars or so, and i think i saw on some venues it was up to 75 dollars for first row seats??) and delivers a 1 short set+encore, and Phish probably has more people to pay. So.. how does that breakdown? Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 19:54:17 -0500 From: "Michael Irish" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Detroit Concert 3/13 My own response to the Crimson concert last night, at the State Theater in Detroit, and that of most of the audience, was little short of ecstasy. People were on their feet, raising a storm near the night's end, with the band rolling out Bartok-Meets-The-Blues numbers. I feel that "The Power to Believe" is the best Crimson recording since "Discipline," so I was in no way bothered with the set being composed of music from the this and "The Construkction of Light" albums, with "Deception of the Thrush" and "Vrooom" as encores. Robert does prefer being in the background during the last few Crimson tours, so it was especially heartening to see him applauding back to the audience at the conclusion of the concert. For Robert, that's the equivalent of crowd surfing by more outgoing rock musicians. I thought the T-shirts were overpriced, but was happy to be happy with buying the "Bears Live" album. Michael ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1107 *********************************