Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1104 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1104 Thursday, 13 March 2003 Today's Topics: Re: Camera harassment at KC show price complaints Re: Doors question Re: GIG REVIEW: P3 in DC, short review: Philly Show Power To Believe T-Shirt TPTB as reborn ITWOP Moment Sing Re: Musician's Reward TPTB Lyrics Please Australia and lyric Boston No Power To Believe. A laser pointer; Fractured at Birchmere LTIA Part 1 buried deep within Level 5's rich chocolate Re: reviews Re: HWWYHTBHW lyrics Listening Loud GIG REVIEW: Philly Show GIG REVIEW: Town Hall, NYC 3/6/03 - TPTB GIG REVIEW: Town Hall shows - MY THOUGHTS GIG REVIEW: Orpheum, Boston, MA ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 13:57:15 -0500 From: "brad cook" Subject: Re: Camera harassment at KC show >Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:26:42 -0500 >From: Peter Dama >Subject: Problem at Town Hall NYC > >To >Robert Fripp, Larry Zucker >Town Hall 123 West 43rd St >New York ,10036 >On Thursday March 6 at 8:30 PM, I, Peter Dama attended the King >Crimson show at Town Hall 123 West 43rd St with a friend, Joseph >Pietretti... At this point the WOW! That really blows! If it's true that KC hired these goons then Fripp has gone TOO far in his attempt to rid the show of cameras. Then the way the guys laughed at you and mocked you for missing the encore is reall an insult to injury. What a couple of a-holes. They should be fired immediately. I feel for you and hope that something happens as a result. I would send that letter to DGM as well. Has anyone else had experiences like this so far? On a side note, this may have been already discussed (I miss some issues here and there) but you can hear some interesting comments from Adrian regarding his own frustrations to Fripp's extreme reactions to cameras at http://www.king-crimson.com/kcabf.html. Listen to part 17. Interesting comments. brad cook ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 15:22:17 EST From: Inturmoil at aol dot com Subject: price complaints I have read many complaints about ticket prices, tour gear prices, etc. Let us attempt to break this down: Does anyone here have any idea how much money it costs to rent a venue for an evening? A ton, I'm sure. Next, the band must pay union wages for the stage hands. Light rental. Sound gear. Next they must pay their own sound guys, management, etc. They must rent trucks to transport their gear. They must pay people to load, unload, and drive these trucks. They must pay hotel and meal accomodations for these people. The band also must transport themselves from show to show, as well as feed and board themselves. . .this too, costs money. Promoters must get paid. Did I mention GAS in these trucks? (Adrian, who we know is a liberal democrat, burns probably 50 times more fuel per year than the average person, because of the business he's in. . .hippocracy? but I digress. . .) I'm sure I missed many things, but lastly the band would like to get paid for their hard work as well. Do you work for free? If you're self employed you do on occasion. Get it? Before you fools go on complaining about prices, run the numbers. Its not like the band gets 45 bucks per person times 3000 per night free and clear!!! Hell, I wish they did. In the future, think Damn it! Jason Engstrom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 15:35:55 -0500 From: "hologram" Subject: Re: Doors question >this has nothing to do with KC, but who played bass for the Doors? While they used outside musicians for bass on some of the studio recordings, Ray Manzarek used a Fender keyboard bass on stage. It is a short keyboard that sat on top of his organ. He played the bass notes with left hand and organ with his right hand. Check out a video of a Doors performance,it's quite impressive to say the least. Lance ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 16:36:58 -0800 (PST) From: Yaman Aksu Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: P3 in DC, short review: Philly Show > From: dave > ... > > Hope this isn't already old news, but I thought > I'd drop in with the > "set list" from the P3 show that took place in > Washington, DC 03/03/03. > (hmmmm...P3...03/03/03...interestink) This was interesting to us also, because after seeing a performance by P3 comprising 3 musicians on 03/03/03, the dinner bill at our table #133 came to $33. -- Yaman Aksu arctan2000 at ya-h--oo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 20:27:11 -0500 From: "Danny Stamper" Subject: Power To Believe T-Shirt Since King Crimson are not touring anywhere near me, I would like to ask someone to pick me up a shirt (Size L), and I will cheerfully reimburse their money. Any one who wants to help me can email me at either one of these two addresses: dstamper at irvineonline dot net froggy551 at lycos dot com Danny ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:44:01 -0800 (PST) From: rone at ennui dot org (circadian rhyme) Subject: TPTB as reborn ITWOP In ET #1102, rjheath at screaming dot net wrote: > Has anyone else noticed a similarity with ITWOP? DC *is* strikingly > reminiscent of that track, and the use of the title track as a kind > of leit motif (in different arrangements, a capella etc) follows the > same pattern as 'Peace...' on the earlier album (not to mention > continuing the familiar KC tradition of starting an album with > quiet/ambient sounds and then blowing one's head off). You bring up a good point. The track listing for TPTB could read TPTB II, including a) Virtuous Circle b) Shoganai TPTB III, including The Deception of the Thrush Plus, HWWYHTBHW is this album's "Cat Food". > However, the big difference for me is that while ITWOP was largely > an inferior retread of 'In The Court...' In my opinion, its retread is superior. rone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 22:48:20 -0500 From: Barry Stock Subject: Moment Sing I thought he was saying (tongue in cheek) "to make the Metal scene". -bs ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:54:03 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Raupers Subject: Re: Musician's Reward I really enjoyed the fresh idealistic tone and stance in this recent discussion. Remembering John Lennon as a walking contradiction, I'm inclined to enjoy benchmarking old hippies to their root structure. I realize that Fripp wasn't really pissed about all that underhanded record company fiscal rape he moaned about. It was the fact that he knew he was Alpha Male and intended to prove it. And he's doing very well capturing rightful admiration. Good for you Mr. Fripp! Everything's all about money, it always was, it never hasn't been, it never won't be. It always should be. If you can't afford KC there are spectacular artists waiting to be heard. Where's the downside? Later, Rockabilly Ray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 01:55:54 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: TPTB Lyrics Please Yes, I recognize that there aren't a lot of lyrics on the new CD, but perhaps someone would be kind enough to jot them down in an email and send them to me so I can add them to the TPTB page at ET Web (I'm just too busy to do that kind of niggling work). Should be easy with the exception of a couple of lines in Happy IMO. Thanks, Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 21:20:06 +1100 From: Stephen Higgins Subject: Australia and lyric In ET 1100 Cam talks about Adrian metioning Australia as a possible tour destination. I havent heard the interview but It would be wonderful to see them here. I was about to post that I was getting a bit angry at all the gig reviews appearing in ET. Obviously this is only jealousy and it is my problem and i am learning to deal with it. But I would love to post a review of a show here in Aus. Its a great place guys! You'll love it. Sun, health and happiness...Or rain, depression and moody places for soundscapes (hint) We got it all. Oh and I thought the line in 'Happy' was; To make the Mother sing Must be my ears...Not enough exposure to KC Live. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 08:00:01 -0500 From: "Scott Casstevens" Subject: Boston Have these guys jelled or what? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:49:23 +0100 From: "FS.Info" Subject: No Power To Believe. Bought it, listened to it and gave it away. Cat Food. " Projekct 6,5 " or " Addy & The Crimson Bears". Surely explains why KC mostly plays easy audiences. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 12:51:37 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: A laser pointer; Fractured at Birchmere >I plan to bring a laser pointer to shine into Fripp's eyes all night, when I'm not fumbling with my DAT recorder and flash camera, smoking cigarettes and weed the whole time and blowing it at Adrian while my cell phone rings during soundscapes. And I plan to yell out for Cat Food and maybe Freebird. I'm no faithful audient, I'm a True Fan!! If you are serious, I hope you get kicked out of the theater quickly. If you are joking, it's not a funny joke. >Then, someone asked them to play another tune. They declined but Robert picked up his guitar and started playing Fracture (ahh, what music to my ears) ... but he playing it like FraKctured ... then realized what was happening and started playing FrakCtured while Pat and Trey were banging out the drum parts on their legs. Fabulous! Hey, these guys are normal! Hah - that's excellent. Thanks for passing that anecdote along. - S. np: Glenn Phillips, Scratched by the Rabbit scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 14:14:24 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: LTIA Part 1 buried deep within Level 5's rich chocolate center; Birchmere as KCCC release >>Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part 1. They played a snippet of it during the song Level 5 on their last tour - I'd like to hear them go for the whole thing, including Adrian on violin cadenza. >Are you sure about that? Pretty sure, yeah. It's the big heavy riff that comes in LTIA Part 1, the first really loud part that knocks the unsuspecting listener off his seat. The same riff, changed slightly rhythmically, appears in the chorus of Happy. We're going to have to write a chorus. >The Birchmere gig of 3rd March inc Q & A session and Fracture, sounds like a natural for a KCCC release Ah, good point sir. I'd buy it. - S. np: Old 97s, "Big Brown Eyes" scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 16:37:24 -0600 From: "McLeod, Jeff" Subject: Re: reviews Personally, I found the sound at the Atlanta show on March 1 to be sorely lacking--most evidently on the bass end. Trey's sound through the PA was either terribly muddy (except for a few solos) or just not there. I was really disappointed. Had the place not been jam-packed, I would have gone back and given the soundguy a note. This definitely tainted what would have been a pretty nice KC concert experience for me. Very disappointing. Jeff McLeod www.soundandchaos.com >Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:23:44 -0300 >From: "Diego Navarro" >Subject: Reviews >I find it strange how there never are any bad gig reviews. In fact, most >reviews don't mention any downsides at all. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:29:53 +0000 From: "Antonio Maria Correia" Subject: Re: HWWYHTBHW lyrics i havent posted in a while, but here goes my contribution to start off, i think it's pretty easy to tell it's "to make them menacing" i do have some difficulty with the pre-chorus and second verse, if someone could help me out, i'd appreciate it: "then, i'm gonna have to write a chorus, we're gonna need to have a chorus, ... something something, please help me with this line blue in the faceeeeee" and "and for a second verse i'll something something to pour another pot (?) of ambiguity, yeah" help would be appreciated secondly, i don't think TPTB is so wonderful. it's definitely great but i think it's not as innovative as TCOL, although more organic, for sure. there's not enough adrian - apart from one of his all-time best solos on Happy -, it lacks one or two songs with lyrics and i think the album loses with the ITWOP structure (TPTB as Peace). I'm still very happy with it though, but i think the band should consider that most of the material released was already out, and i hope that KC will soon release another album with mostly new material. Until next time, Antonio Maria Correia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 20:40:18 EST From: Hovisrich at aol dot com Subject: Listening Loud A few years back we bought a house and, after years of apartment living, I was finally able to listen to music at the appropriate volume--headphones just canat deliver the desired full-body physical effect. So when the house emptied out one day, I slapped on Lizard (annoying even at apartment-level volume) and cranked it. The family cat woke up, became quite agitated and even left the room--unusual, because it only moves under the stimulus of food, in vectors connecting its chair, cat dish, and the back door. She seemed to hate it--yeah, its a female cat--although a simple aversion to Jon Anderson cannot be ruled out. About a year later I got Level 5 at a local KC appearance. So the cat and I settled in again and . . .nothing. Not even a tail twitch or dirty look. The question then became, aAre these guys losina it, or is the cat just getting old?a Now Iave got the new one, and this time the cat actually puked! And she never does that. So now the question is, aAre these guys back, better than ever, or is my cat just sick?a Rich Hovis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 14:27:58 -0500 From: Tim Subject: GIG REVIEW: Philly Show > I thought I was lucky to grab 18th row seats, having only gotten my tix > 10 days before, but I later noticed that there were only about 2 dozen > people behind us and a balcony that they never opened. Was this due to > short ticket lead time or did Crim only open so many tix for the show? > The latter doesn't really make sense $-wise, but I think we know that's > not what these guys are all about. I noticed that too, I would suspect it was because the date was announced late. I got my tix a couple weeks before and got front row seats, they apparently just went online. The other two occasions I saw them at the Tower Theater (including the last tour), the place was pretty well packed. And yes, I was annoyed by the loud mouths throughout the show. No respect for the band or the audience. I was afraid Trey was going to walk off after the first part of Thrush, he certainly looked annoyed. Thank goodness he stuck around to grace us with a breathtaking (as usual!) solo. Loved the rest of the show. An interesting thing, Adrian looked to have a few missteps (for instance, seeming to get thrown off in the middle of Level 5). Those are always nice to watch as it throws a bit of hazard at the band, getting back on track or clawing your way out of a derailment shows you the true metal of the group, and they recovered in FINE fashion on both occasions (with a wry smile from Adrian...). Adrian ROCKED by the way, what a pleasure to watch. So what are the inflatable tusk things anyway?? Pretty cool... Tim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 20:48:18 -0500 From: Frankie Camiola Subject: GIG REVIEW: Town Hall, NYC 3/6/03 - TPTB King Crimson, Town Hall, NYC 3/6/03 - Saw Crimson last night at Town Hall with Bony and Bill Freeman. There was a guy who had a T-shirt that read "Fripp says 'Move on' ". That's exactly what Crimson did last night - only played material from '99 until present. Personally I was elated to hear the entire new album performed live along with a few tracks from Happy and TCoL. I really did not miss hearing any of the standards from Discipline or "Dinosaur", etc. I won't go into detail about the songs that were played but I will say it was the best Crimson concert I have ever seen - completely blowing the Level 5 tour last year out of the water. This band is an unbelievably tight working unit that has finally realized it's full potential. There were moments last night that left me in complete awe of the powerful intensity and beauty that this current band is capable of producing. I wish everybody could have heard "Dangerous Curves" from the new album performed last night, it was stunning to say the least. I believe the sound played an crucial role last night as each instrument was crystal clear and could be isolated very easily. I don't miss Bruford at all after seeing this band play live last night - Mastelotto fits this music perfectly. I will go so far as to say this current incarnation is as good as the '73-'74 band (my favorite), possibly better in some aspects. Fripp was still in the dark the entire show. The Power To Believe - Awesome. I Love it. Played it about 6 times so far - gets better each time. If you are even remotely interested in this band, it is a must own. I really did dig most of TCoL (FraKCtured still blows my mind), but this album is much better IMO. It is more of an "album" that can be listened from beginning to end, ending much too soon to my ears. I cannot say the same about Thrak and TCol. As good as those albums are, The Power To Believe just has superb flow from start to finish that just seems effortless. Everytime I have played it, I have ended up listening to the entire album. Get it soon. I am on a serious Crimson kick right now. Frankie np - guess? ;) Frankie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 15:47:32 -0500 From: "Luigi Giugliano" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Town Hall shows - MY THOUGHTS I've been thinking about writing a review of the KC show I went to which was the first Town hall show on 3/5/2003. And I have to say it was a mixed bag for me. Though fortunately more good than bad. First off, I'm 21 years old and this was my first KC show. I've been fan since I bought the ITCOTCK remaster back in '99 and have bought every album since and delve incredibly deep into their music and history. I was very excited but at the same time nervous about the typical things that can go wrong at a KC show and abruptly end it (the dumb, drunken hecklers shouting out old KC songs that they should damn well know that they will NEVER play and photographers who might shoot that one flash that will cause Fripp to leave the show). So my leisure time and money were at risk. But fortuntely despite a few hecklers, the show went on and KC were INCREDIBLE! Even though they didn't play anything before THRAK (figures the day would finally come), they played all the new material tight and full of passion and enthusiasm. Pat played like a motherfucker. It's great to hear him mix the acoustic and electric drums and show what he can really do. The TCOL songs with acoustic drums sound far superior to the studio versions. And his playing on the TPTB songs were brutal. As much as Bruford will always be my man, Pat is absolutely right for what KC's doing now and his playing adds a fresh new energy that I haven't heard since THRAK or even Discipline. Trey also blew me away. I loved it when he played two Warr guitars simultaneously and still managed to play some incredibly tasteful playing. His solo on "Deception of the Thrush" against Fripp's Soundscape had me in tears. Sublime! But the one I had my eye on a lot was Adrian. You see there is a reason why Zappa, Bowie, Talking Heads and Fripp asked him to play with them. Funny that he was still coming down from a flu/cold. Never could've tell that he was sick. I don't care what any of the purists around here say. If Ade can pull off coming out with singing catchy melodies while playing guitar when both parts are in different meters and still be energetic doing cool tricks like playing the slide above the neck and bending the strings to come out with kooky solos, nobody should DARE touch him for that. Like he said, if you think you can do better. Go ahead. (snickers uncontrollably) And then Uncle Bobby. What can I say? Despite that he sat facing the band "conducting" so to speak and that I could only see the back of his hand going up and down the neck, he's still one of my top 5 favorite guitarists of all time. Great solos during "Level 5," "Facts Of Life" and all the Soundscapes. He seems to be really happy with the music KC's producing. Hell, I don't remember the last time I saw him smile so much. So a great show. Though I don't understand why they couldn't play longer. One hour and fifteen minutes is not enough for me or for anyone to get the full KC experience - especially for $52. Oh well, maybe it's because it was so good it just went by so quickly. I will definitely see them again. One last thing, I just read Peter Dama's post about his misadventure on the next night and I was very shocked at what I read. That is such an incredibly fucked up way to go. I understand KC's photography policy, but if KC has now gone to the point that they have to hire goons to raid the audience looking for cameras as he claimed, then I have lost some respect for the band. NOT EVERYONE is there to ruin it. There's always the few idiots that go to every show to do their little game of who can make Fripp leave the stage first, but a majority of us DO want to sit and listen to the music. What's so difficult about that. Anyway, feel free to comment on my thoughts. Cheers! Lui G. SCRUTINIZER981 at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:05:04 EST From: Campiglio4 at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: Orpheum, Boston, MA I just thought I'd share my thoughts on Saturday's show...let me begin by saying, no one will confuse King Crimson as being a nostalgic act; their oldest song played was off of Thrak! The new material came through loud and clear! The mix was fantastic; every nuance, every note...crisp! Every time I see Trey play, he grows on me more and more; dressed all in white, he looked like he was on the set of THX1138! Fripp, as usual, in the shadows (a black light effect on him all night); Adrian pulled him in the spotlight at the end, as he well deserves! The whole experience I liken to going to the Symphony; the music is multi-textured, best suited for closing your eyes and listening. Now lets get to the negitives: ticket says 7:30...band came on past 8:00; why did I rush to get in?? With no opening act, the entire experience was too short; getting out of a show on a Saturday night before 10:00!!!! Why not two sets?? By all means, the negitives didn't come close to out-weighing this great show, I just wish there was more of it! Mike ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1104 *********************************