Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1102 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1102 Sunday, 9 March 2003 Today's Topics: Re: CDs available at gigs merchandise Problem at Town Hall NYC Krimso shows Re: does the moment sing?; Reviews happy lyric Help. Re: snippets of LTIA 1? what? Re: lyrics to HWWYHTBHW Re: 21CSB DVD? Re: "The only reward a musician should receive is music" Re: merch... KC warm-up gig in Toronto? Re. Dangerous Curves Collective Genius Re: piano sounds / KC possibilities and wet dreams, etc. The Birchmire show Birchmere Gig Andy McCulloch Re: BPM&M Re: Doors question GIG REVIEW: P3 in DC, short review: Philly Show GIG REVIEW: March 6 show at Town Hall ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:06:04 EST From: KingWumpus at aol dot com Subject: Re: CDs available at gigs I went to the 3/4 show (it absoutely rocked, but that's another story) and bought lots of overpriced KC stuff... here's pretty much what was available, best as I can remember: ItCotCK, Discipline, PtB, and some other shirt that I can't remember (Happy? I think so...) for $30-35 apiece (I got Discipline -- the PtB shirt was the tour one but people might take the album cover the wrong way; it's got a very evil vibe), plus hooded sweatshirts (black with the DGM knot on back in silver, and "KING CRIMSON - THE POWER TO BELIEVE" printed on the right breast in front) for some outrageous sum. There were also baseball caps (Discipline knot) and girlie versions of the above shirts. CD-wise, there was a Bears album, the Bozzio-Mastelotto disc, and a Trey Gunn Band album, each for $15. I would have gotten one if I weren't thoroughly broke already... Of course, there's also the tour box, which is insanely overpriced ($40) but I got because I'm a sucker. It's in a DVD case (most of which are cracked along the spine, but oh well), with the PtB back cover on the front, containing the tour program (mainly a bunch of pictures, as well as a short history of the band and overview of the F/B/G/M band's output) and a CD with interviews and a few outtakes. The outtakes are all pretty interesting -- most notable are "Message 22", which is a weird little cross between "Sartori in Tangier" and "Three of a Perfect Pair" that I THINK shows up on "Einstein's Relatives" from Happy, and "Sus-tayn-Z", which is a nice little bit of pussyfooting. I crammed my setlist, the show review in the paper, my ticket stub, and one of the leaflets they were handing out in there cause it's a nice handy place to keep everything. The leaflet was a little freebie with the Maynard James Keenan quote about Tool ripping off KC, probably in hopes that you'll drop one or two in a convenient location and turn on some new fans. They did NOT have PtB at the 3/4 show, which miffed me a little bit cause the album came out that day and all, but it was no matter. The show kicked ass anyway. There was no obnoxious shouting (except for the few right when the lights went down, of course) and no obnoxious people... which seems to be my DC concert-going experience in general. I haven't seen an annoying jackass at a single show I've been to, not one. Maybe I'm just incredibly lucky, maybe I'm just oblivious to what's going on around me, maybe we're nicer in general, who knows. One last note: the album RULES. Best since Discipline, maybe longer. And there's ample use of breathing room and empty space! TCoL just gets worse and worse in retrospect... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 15:58:49 EST From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: merchandise A reader asked how much he should budget for merchandise at a forthcoming Crimson gig. I reckon an arm, a leg and your soul should cover it. Gordy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 10:26:42 -0500 From: Peter Dama Subject: Problem at Town Hall NYC To Robert Fripp, Larry Zucker Town Hall 123 West 43rd St New York ,10036 On Thursday March 6 at 8:30 PM, I, Peter Dama attended the King Crimson show at Town Hall 123 West 43rd St with a friend, Joseph Pietretti. Through out the show I notice men walking up down the aisles often stopping and looking in each row this was disturbing, it also block my vision and key performances many times during the show. This disturbance got worse as the night went on. I figured that there was something lost or some sort of security problem, until two of these men came to the aisle where we where seating. At this point the two men order the three people seating next to me out of there seats a second later came back an rip my coat from my lap an said "where is the camera" stunned and taking off guard I stood up. At this point both men were shouting where is the camera still holding my coat, they start going through the pockets of my coat. They felt my cell phone and open the pocket, only to find it was my cell phone. I had no camera. I was taking no pictures and gave them no reason to rouse me from my seat. I was just trying to enjoy the show, which by this point was impossible. At this point I ask to see someone in management and spoke to a man out front who was not very interested in my problem or helping rectify the situation. The two men who did t his to me where now laughing at me and saying that I just missed the encore. In all of my concert going years and seeing King Crimson steadily since 1973 this had to be the worse experience I have had at a concert. When I called Larry Zucker the next day to explain what happened to me. He explained that these people where hired by King Crimson. Well unfortunately that will be the last King Crimson concert I will be going to. I go to concerts to relax and be entertained not to be abused and leave upset. I felt as though I was part of some police action. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 17:46:54 EST From: Guitar86rick at aol dot com Subject: Krimso shows I just wish everyone would stop complaining about ticket prices. At least KC will play in your state!! and at least you can go see them. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:20:47 -0500 From: "The_Robot_Hodji" Subject: Re: does the moment sing?; > "And when I have some words > This is the way I sing " I'll sing" > Through a distortion box > To make the moment sing" "To make it menacing" > > I don't hear "the moment sing" but "mortal sin". And you? I don't suppose > Adrian will repeat a rhyme. And also listen how he sings that part. Isn't > it a little "mortal"? I hear "menacing". Makes sense, nes pas? imo TPTB is the best Crimson since Discipline. Dare I say KC 2003 is the best batch yet?!! - das roboticus hodjiicus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 00:23:44 -0300 From: "Diego Navarro" Subject: Reviews I find it strange how there never are any bad gig reviews. In fact, most reviews don't mention any downsides at all. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 21:59:06 -0800 From: stgor at apricorn dot com (Steven Gordon) Subject: happy lyric It's not "moment sing" or "mortal sin," it's "And when I have some words This is the way I sing Through a distortion box To make them menacing" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 2:8:31 -0500 From: "DENNIS DONEGAN" Subject: Help. Can anyone direct me to any 21st Century Schizoid Band recordings. Like where can I download or even buy their discs. I'd really love it if there were somewhere on the planet a vinyl copy of any of their stuff.Let me know, ok? Thanks --- DENNIS DONEGAN --- dennispca at earthlink dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:13:17 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: snippets of LTIA 1? what? >>Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part 1. They played a snippet of it during the song Level >5 on their last tour - I'd like to hear them go for the whole thing, including Adrian on >violin cadenza. Areyou sure about that? That would be amazing, I've never heard or heard of such a thing. they played 3 "old" songs at the show i saw on level 5, but nothing like a part of Larks-anything ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:22:09 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: lyrics to HWWYHTBHW >>2. Some posts ago someone gave us lyrics to HWWYHTBHW: "And when I have some words This is the way I sing Through a distortion box To make the moment sing" >I don't hear "the moment sing" but "mortal sin". The line is: "To make them menacing" at least that seemed clear to me, maybe I'm wrong. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:26:38 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: 21CSB DVD? Looking forward to the DVD of the band from Tokyo, WHEN!?! speaking of DVDs there is a 2 disc live Led Zeppelin DVD being released soon... very exciting. It's being accompanied by a 3 disc live set as well. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 14:41:43 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: "The only reward a musician should receive is music" > God bless ya man. King Crimson has made me the person I am today, all 17 > years of it. It kinda disgusts me to hear people moan and groan over the > simple price of tickets or maybe the show didn't go exactly their way. > Whatever the case may be, I hope King Crimson knows that their are still > truely loyal fans out there that support them to the fullest. > > James Cello > Kansas City > > "The only reward a musician should receive is music" > -Robert Fripp That is really funny that you used that quote from Robert after such a post. Just because King Crimson has extremely loyal, die-hard fans that believe that any price is worth the product they will get does not mean there still arent standards by which you can say "wow that is pricey" or "wow, that was TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE WHAT ARE THEY THINKING???".. and you may still buy the product. and you can also say "FUDGE! for 50 big ones I would have liked more than 90 minutes!".. But you may not want to because the show was so good and 90 minutes isnt bad. But the fact that you used the quote "The only reward a musician should receive is music" just kills me. If that was true than why are they charging 20 dollars for a CD at the show. Everyone on this list just got through saying how if record companies did charge insane prices, like 20 dollars for CDs that shouldnt be more than 10 or even 15, then people wouldnt pirate so much music. And now everyones willing to throw down 20 dollars just because its King Crimson. Yes I'm goig to BUY their new CD even though I have it downloaded, But I could either buy it from DGM for 13.99, a reasonable price, or probably find it without shipping costs for 11.99. So, maybe I'm the only one who has the cheap, non-"true enthusiast" mind to consider such options, but I just don't like that a CD at an expensive concert is more expensive to get it there than on a website. They've got it backwards. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 14:54:33 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: merch... >>I'm seeing Crim in Detroit, and would like to know how much to budget for merchandise (the tourbox, any other cds for sale like Rhythm Buddies or Mastica, tshirts, etc.) If some generous soul could report on what's on sale >and how much it cost, I'd appreciate it. Thanks I hate to be the cynical "cheap" guy, but this year's tour is far more expensive than last years if memory serves me. I think it went 20 dollars for the new CD (no other cds from KC sold) and T-shirts were something like 35. I think the Tour Box was 40? They sold out very quickly. They did have some interesting new shirts though, and I almost bought one. They have a darker red Discipline shirt, as well as an updated Schizoid Man shirt with "the king" from inside ITCOTKC (the bubble dude with his hand out) on the back. I think there was a tour shirt that said "The Power To Believe" on the pocket side of a T-shirt and a white discipline knot on the back.. maybe that was the sweatshirt though, which was somewhere around 60 i think. Anyway, ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 07:17:32 -0500 From: "Greg Amann" Subject: KC warm-up gig in Toronto? Hello all: I am looking forward to taking the whole family to see the Toronto show this Wed. This will be the third time my 11 yr old will have seen KC and the 2nd time for the 9 yr old. I view it as my parental duty to create musical snobs. ;-) A music industry insider has told me that KC played a "private" show in Toronto last week. Any truth to this? Peace, light and love, Big Fat Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 15:11:15 +0000 From: rjheath at screaming dot net Subject: Re. Dangerous Curves In ET1101, Phill Lister wrote: "If you like what Dangerous Curves does, check out The Devil's Triangle on In The Wake Of Pos...(can't remember how to spell it!)" Has anyone else noticed a similarity with ITWOP? DC *is* strikingly reminiscent of that track, and the use of the title track as a kind of leit motif (in different arrangements, a capella etc) follows the same pattern as 'Peace...' on the earlier album (not to mention continuing the familiar KC tradition of starting an album with quiet/ambient sounds and then blowing one's head off). However, the big difference for me is that while ITWOP was largely an inferior retread of 'In The Court...' the new album is fantastic, and definitely a step *forward* from 'The Construction of Light'. Just have to keep fingers crossed for UK tour dates, since if the US reviews are anything to go by, the live shows won't be a disappointment either! Richard Heath ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 15:42:58 -0000 From: "james.gemma1" Subject: Collective Genius Yep TPTB is a fantastic album - a work of collective genius. A special mention for Trey that guy is one sensational musician. . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:42:19 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Kelley Subject: Re: piano sounds / KC possibilities and wet dreams, etc. In ET #1099, Jordan wrote: >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:52:37 -0500 >From: "Jordan Clifford" >Subject: Re: cat food without piano > >>I'm not very familiar with pre-Bruford KC (Cat Food especially), but >>someone mentioned that the possibility of KC playing Cat Food on this >>tour would suffer without a piano player. > >I personally dont think it would suffer at all. the manic piano is an >interesting touch on the recorded version, but they've played cat food >live without a piano (right?.. its on the great deciever isnt it?) and >its just fine, if not better. The piano isn't an important part of the >song to me. > If you think about it, Fripp actually serves well as a piano player too - due in part to his processed Frippertronicized piano sounds from his guitar. He did some sensational piano-like sounds at 3/1 Variety during one the songs - I think it was in TPTB, can't remember? Also at the Nashville 2000 shows, a more funky Roland keyboard-like sound texture was heard by Fripp during the solo in Cage. In other words, Fripp and especially Belew can make their guitars sound like "any damn thing they please". And that's the thing that is so amazing about KC - it's the things that they could POTENTIALLY do if they wanted to! There are no boundaries or limits to the potential they could do, even without Levin and Bruford in as a sextet. I'm actually getting more and more used to Trey and Pat, where I feel they truly do fit more in with this 21st Century version of KC. I still wish the best to Levin (wish you were touring down in Atlanta again, durnit!) and Bruford (same as you ;) in their current endeavors. Anyhow, getting back to KC's potential: If they TRULY wanted to, they could play a whole set disguised as a 4-piece jazz ensemble: Adrian on trumpet or saxophone, Fripp on piano or jazz keys, Pat on jazz kit (though morely Bruford's forte), and Trey on fuzz bass. They could be Miles Davis or Return To Forever, or something like that. Heck, I definitely know Fripp would be more than capable of doing a whole set of nothing but pre-'81 KC material. Even the cult classics like Cat Food (yes, with RF and not Keith on "piano" ;), Pictures Of A City, Cadence and Cascade, Epitaph, Indoor Games, Sailors Tale, Fracture, etc. Belew could nail those Greg Lake vocals (as example on the C&C remix on the FBF box set). Could you imagine hearing Belew belting it out on POAC or Lament? The thing is, yes all of this would be a great Krimsomaniac's ultimate wet dream, but the fact is, it will likely NEVER HAPPEN! And in a way, maybe it shouldn't. Fripp seems intent on keeping the direction of this current line-up where it needs to be - in the present, and looking ahead to the future. Yes, I would've even liked to have heard Red or Elephant Talk at the Variety last week (as the earliest number was VROOOM from '94). But I do respect Fripp on his intense FOCUS on maintaining KC and especially during live performances. Especially when that asshole yells "Freebird!" or some unwanted, loud whispers are heard during the quiet parts of Thrush. That is definitely a lot of us (including myself) lack is "focus". Once you're focused and execute your actions fully, anything is possible. And that's a great lesson to learn from KC - that you can do anything you set your mind to do! So for KC, especially Fripp and Belew, thanks for giving all of us "the power to belie! ve". And please don't take the word "POTENTIAL" out of context here. I don't mean that in a way of being what they can accomplish. Heck, they've accomplished a helluva lot throughout past lineups, personnel changes, and over the last 30+ years, than what 90% of bands can do in THEIR lifetimes! What I'm saying is that the possiblilites of what KC can do are endless and infinite as space itself. Yet they stay in their controlled boundaries of sonic and tonal chaos. Still, it would be interesting to hear them REALLY knock people off their ass with the first live rendition of The Great Deceiver in over 28 years! "Health food faggot," yells Adrian ;) Btw, the 3/1 Variety show was definitely KILLER!!! I swear I hardly even recognized Dangerous Curves played before LTIA4. To me, it sounded different from the slowly-building cacophonic version heard in 2001. They must have changed it a little bit, because from what I heard on 3/1, it sounded more loose and not as climactic as before. Still haven't bought TPTB, but that might change today. (Heck, I still need to get Happy). I still can't help thinking that the title "The Power To Believe" sounds like a Celine Dion album. Actually, she did have a similarly-named title, but as they said in the movie Airplane, "But that's not important right now!" ;) Anyway, I'm done babblin'. Just thank God for Crimson and the power of music!!! Peace and Krimso always, Brian NP: KCCC #14, Plymouth 5/71: Sailors Tale (unreal!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:44:57 -0500 From: "sportsterrpm1" Subject: The Birchmire show Good Evening Hippies; I have no idea what all the fuss is about in Alexandria, Va.? This show on March 3rd without Adrian must have been awesome!!! (Even though the new album is absolutely one of their BEST EVER!!!! And seeing this new material live will be wild!) We haven't seen a projekct play in around 5 years... This show is the one all of the projeKct fans would die to see... Robert, if you read this post. I vote for this show to be a collecters club release. And Adrian, I hope that you are feeling better! Looking forward to the Boston show reguardless of which version of Crimson plays!!! A Crimhead Forever!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 18:00:16 -0000 From: "john.critten" Subject: Birchmere Gig The Birchmere gig of 3rd March inc Q & A session and Fracture, sounds like a natural for a KCCC release ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:01:14 EST From: Guitar86rick at aol dot com Subject: Andy McCulloch In reply to Andy McCulloch not laying down a groove on Lizard: In my opinion Indoor Games has one throughout the song. I enjoy his drumming throughout the album, but he has been overshadowed by the likes of Giles and Bruford. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 13:01:08 -0500 From: "brad cook" Subject: Re: BPM&M >Subject: cds for sale at gigs? > >Just wondering if the BPM&M and the Thunderbird Suite cds are available >for sale at the Crimso gigs this time around? Could someone verify? > >James James, You may already know this but if you don't I just thought I'd tell you that the BPM&M CD is available to purchase (and sample) through Tony Levin's Papa Bear Records website: http://www.papabear.com/bpm.htm I really want to purchase this record and I will at some point. The music I've sampled from the page is absolutely fantastic and I think the recordings of Fripp talking are hilarious: "baffling metrically frakctured disco rhythms, incessantly mathematical melodies in inventive modes, indiscretions. How about this - secretly taped conversations from inside the studio." and my favorite "enormous glay-ci-ers of sound were toppling onto the audience, reforming at great amounts and toppling forward again...the audience applauded enthusiastically." I don't know why that cracks me up...it's just soooo..Fripp! digme, brad cook ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 12:04:47 -0600 From: Craig Subject: Re: Doors question >this has nothing to do with KC, but who played bass for the Doors? Ray Manzarek... (w/ his organ pedals) ...& the ocassional session musician ~C ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:26:01 -0500 From: dave Subject: GIG REVIEW: P3 in DC, short review: Philly Show Hey gang... Hope this isn't already old news, but I thought I'd drop in with the "set list" from the P3 show that took place in Washington, DC 03/03/03. (hmmmm...P3...03/03/03...interestink) Soundscape/Tuning the Air Level 5 / C Power / Thrakking Virtuous Power Facts Solo Lite Sustanynz Super Slow Thrush Vrooom The Philly show 03/07/03 was very nice. Great renditions of TCoL and LTiA IV. Deception of the Thrush was mildly ruined by what were (imho) uncouthe audients (yelling for Elephant Talk, causing the band to pause for a second...hopefully I'm not the only one to see the irony here), tho for the most part the audients were pretty under control. I'm still trying to figure out what led into "Shogani". (Please help...off-list replies please) It was something ProjeKct-ish. Masque Part 10 perhaps? What a different version than just a few nights previous. It seemed to be at least 2 minutes longer, but then time has little bearing on my psyche during musical bliss. I was definitely out of my skin during this piece. Just wonderful. I thought I was lucky to grab 18th row seats, having only gotten my tix 10 days before, but I later noticed that there were only about 2 dozen people behind us and a balcony that they never opened. Was this due to short ticket lead time or did Crim only open so many tix for the show? The latter doesn't really make sense $-wise, but I think we know that's not what these guys are all about. Thanks, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:30:39 -0500 From: kooncreek at juno dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: March 6 show at Town Hall A very short show guy's 1 hour and 15 min., it was as if they rushed through the show . No music from before TCOL, plus 30.00-60.00 dollar T-shirts. Are these guys trying to save for their retirement on us . They played flawlessly though ,but every song tends to sound the same after a while if you only play the same style . ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1102 *********************************