Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1101 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1101 Saturday, 8 March 2003 Today's Topics: No respect Power to Believe - and I do amazing new album / lyrics to happy... TPtB; Lyrics to 'Happy With...' Is that permissible? Lyrics to HTBHWWYHTBHW Why Asheville? Dangerous Curves Singing moments of mortal sin and P2B Rolling Stone Review Collectors' Club covers Live show grumbles London in June... Re: does the moment sing? Re: does the moment sing? 20 women in Guitar craft? GIG REVIEW: 3/6/03 Town Hall NYC GIG REVIEW: Town Hall NYC March 6 GIG REVIEW: Asheville review-brief GIG REVIEW: CONCERT HEAVEN ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 14:41:49 EST From: JNDpickles at aol dot com Subject: No respect I agree about the lack of respect at Crimson concerts, there is always some flashing a camera, of yelling for something's off the first album, or even worse, the fan that feels he has to explain to his friend when each song was written, how and why during the song, if your such a big fan please shut up and drift away into the music. Its little things like this that take the performance and remove the bond we get with the musicians during the concert, I can fully understand how a single flash, or someone yelling out during a song can disturb the performer`s. DS-Heep. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:44:05 -0500 From: "Bob Bennett" Subject: Power to Believe - and I do Just got the new cd and quiet frankly I'd have to say it is wonderful - start to finish. The playing is crisp, the songs are tight and inventive and the vocals are perfect in an understated way. Do I hear a hint of politics in this album? Me like!! Although, we have heard many of the songs (i.e. Level Five and the Happy EP), the arrangements and production, as a whole, at least to my ears, sounds very new and very fresh. Also, I for once in a long long while agree with the review of the album in Rolling Stone (**** that's right four stars from critic David Fricke (sp) the only reviewer at the mag worth reading). I can't wait to hear this music live next week in Detroit. Bob Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:40:41 -0500 From: "Mike Miller" Subject: amazing new album / lyrics to happy... Greetings all from California. I haven't posted in quite awhile, but I felt compelled after hearing the new album. In the few days I've had it, I've listened to it about six times. In my opinion, this is without question the best thing KC has came up with since Discipline, and quite possibly since Red. The music is very dense, complex and hypnotic (not to mention heavy as all get out). This version of Crimson has finally gelled. I always wondered what exactly they were trying to achieve on TCoL, which at times left a weird taste in my mouth. On that album they essentially omitted the more whimsical, lighter moments of all other KC incarnations. Also absent was a good beat of any kind. Crimson were always capable of funky beats and grooves, and they are back on this album (Facts of Life is a good example, not to mention my current fav on the disc). Pat's drumming has always been excellent in a very unique way, but now he has really become a monster. THis album is everything a Crimson album should be. Bravo guys. I hope beyond hope that this Crimson will continue for many years. I already have my tix to the Anahime (spelling?) show on the 30th and I can't wait. One other thing I wanted to address was the lyrics to Happy... That line about "to make them mortal sin" or whatever, I'm 99% sure he says "To make them more insane". That's just my take on it. Also, here's to hoping for a complete performance of the Larks Tounge saga! Peace. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:21:42 -0500 From: David Vella Subject: TPtB; Lyrics to 'Happy With...' Greetings, Matt Nolan says: > Otherwise, the production is excellent, especially the drums and > electronic / processed percussion. Great snare and cymbal sounds abound. The > Mastelotto / Gunn rhythm section kicks the proverbial and Robert Fripp is > everywhere, in some places on fire! Couldn't agree more, Matt. TCoL was a great album - but this one is more balanced, and I also noticed the tasty playing by Pat & Trey (complemented by the always great playing of those other two guys...) Can't wait to hear it live the day after tomorrow in Boston! I'll be there with my ITWOP T-shirt on in honor of that passage of Dangerous Curves (?) which sounds like Devil's Triangle.... Later in #1098, Tomek Talerzak adds: > 2. Some posts ago someone gave us lyrics to HWWYHTBHW: > > "And when I have some words > This is the way I sing > Through a distortion box > To make the moment sing" > > I don't hear "the moment sing" but "mortal sin". And you? I don't suppose > Adrian will repeat a rhyme. And also listen how he sings that part. Isn't > it a little "mortal"? I hear it as: "Through a distortion box to make it menacing!" But I've never been good at deciphering lyrics. Do we have the makings of a Crimson Mondegreen here? Cheers, David Vella ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 14:55:28 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Is that permissible? >Suppose someone just wants to go and see the band and have a good night out? Is that permissible? Suppose the band just wants to play the music for people who appreciate it, and not be violated by boors in the process? Is that permissible? - S. np: Rolling Stones, Voodoo Lounge scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:10:53 -0500 From: Tom Law Subject: Lyrics to HTBHWWYHTBHW >"And when I have some words > This is the way I sing > Through a distortion box > To make the moment sing" I don't generally pay much attention to lyrics, but at the Atlanta show I had the distinct impression he was singing "To make it menacing". Certainly makes more sense, anyhow. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:19:40 -0500 From: Tom Law Subject: Why Asheville? Does anyone know how/why KC chose Asheville, NC as the opening of this tour? (I know it rhymes with "Nashville", but that's hardly a reason.) It's a great town, but the venue itself was nothing special. Maybe the 10:00 showtime helped them get over "bus lag", after changing time zones... For me, that late hour, while allowing for a pleasant leisurely dinner after a long drive up there, also made for a long sleepy drive home after the show. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 23:16:33 -0000 From: "phill lister" Subject: Dangerous Curves Hello all! If you like what Dangerous Curves does, check out The Devil's Triangle on In The Wake Of Pos...(can't remember how to spell it!) and the live version at Hyde Park. The first Crimson album I heard was ITWOP and for me the most gripping thing on it was The Devil's Triangle. I loved the rest of it but as well as the Triangle being so scary and ecstatic it was just something so Crimson - no-one else would have made this. The earlier versions of Dangerous Curves tentatively put their toes in the water of the sea god, the TPTB performance gets right in there. And they're still exploring "being King Crimson" - partway through, Pat gets into an acoustic groove that seems like it's getting just the effect Bruford was able to pull out of the bag sometimes, but he's doing it in a distinctive Pat way. The rest of the album is also brilliant and it's music I've waited a while to hear - heard it hovering in the background recently (and nailed on Potatoe Pie and LTIA4(?) on the EP). Both those tracks are brilliant and playfully outrageous! Where are they going now? I think there's some fascinating music in TPTB3. Four strong individual musicians with access to all sorts of noises making music that's clearly got an amazing interplay and sense of history and future. "I Like It!" doesn't say enough... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:56:34 -1100 From: "W. Stuart Kirkham" Subject: Singing moments of mortal sin and P2B First the picky detail: This was recently posted: >>>2. Some posts ago someone gave us lyrics to HWWYHTBHW: "And when I have some words This is the way I sing Through a distortion box To make the moment sing" I don't hear "the moment sing" but "mortal sin". And you?<<< I have been wanting to bring this up, but did not think it was important enough, but as long as I am posting, what the hey. It is not "To make the moment sing" or "To make them mortal sin," but, rather, "To make them menacing." This makes much more sense and fits the humor of the piece. Also, I just recently picked up The Power to Believe, and I do believe that I am quite pleased with it. I was concerned that the album would seem uninteresting considering that most of the material had been previously released via Level 5 and Happy Etc, but these versions are more polished, the rhythm section is mixed in better, and it seems like everyone in the band is playing well as a band. My current favorite piece is P2B II; although it is built on A Virtuous Circle and Shogonai (also derived from AVC), the song transcends the sum of its parts. The jammimg pieces jam, with plenty of bonk-squonking and interlocking swirlies that give the songs plenty of momentum (mass and velocity - heaviness and motion). Pat is worthy, dammit! As are Trey and Adrian. And RF, too. Bravo! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ W. Stuart Kirkham PhD Candidate University of Texas at Austin Department of Geography wskirkham at mail dot utexas dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:27:03 -0600 From: "Buzz Fenner" Subject: Rolling Stone Review A few days ago I received my March 20 issue of Rolling Stone (it's got that little punk Canadian chick on the cover). In the record reviews-behold, a review of The Power To Believe. The reviewer, David Fricke, one of the more senior guys on the staff, gave it 4 stars out of 5. Finally some good words in the "mainstream" press. Hot damn! Buzz "Eat flaming death, facist media pigs!" - Skip Zipper ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 23:12:48 -0300 From: Moahh Subject: Collectors' Club covers I've just noticed that if I arrange my Collectors' Club CDs side by side, I can see a picture that looks like the Night Watch back cover. Since I does not own many Collectors' Club CDs (12, 13, 14, 19 & 21), I cannot be sure . Does anyone have the full picture? I am just curious... Thanks, Moahh -- NP : Hermeto Pascoal - Aluxan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 04:38:11 +0000 From: "Steve Kernohan" Subject: Live show grumbles A couple of extracts from some recent posts: "...hey, seeing KC twice on one weekend sounds pretty good, doesn't it?" and "It kinda disgusts me to hear people moan and groan over the simple price of tickets or maybe the show didn't go exactly their way. Whatever the case may be, I hope King Crimson knows that their are still truly loyal fans out there that support them to the fullest." Just to get this into some perspective. I have been a fan since 1972. I've bought every album and every CD release as various upgrades have been made available. I'm not saying I'm the world's biggest fan but believe me I'd rather see King Crimson live than any other band still going around. It's not likely though as I live in Australia and so far as I'm aware Robert Fripp has never set foot in this country let alone brought the band over. All of the folks who complain about ticket prices or complain about the material chosen in the set list just remember that there are people who'd love to see that band in any circumstance who aren't so lucky. Steve K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:18:11 +1100 (EST) From: Will Dayble Subject: London in June... Hey there. I'm from Australia and I'm going to be catching a plane on the 13th of June to England, and I plan to be in London for a few months (I have no idea how many.. anything from one to six/seven or so) for the express purpose of seeing music. I'm going to Leeds and Reading festival to see the Dillinger Escape Plan (hooray for mathyness. :D) but I was wondering what kind of stuff is going on in London/England KC-wise... even just vaguely associated-type things from members/ex-members etc, you know the deal. Feel free to contact me directly, I'd love to hear of anything... ===== Will Dayble. ------------<| Official nerd, ninja ----<| And all round idiot. ----<| www.innocentcabbage.com -<| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:43:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Marriott Subject: Re: does the moment sing? >"And when I have some words >This is the way I sing >Through a distortion box >To make the moment sing" > >I don't hear "the moment sing" but "mortal sin". And >you? I don't >suppose >Adrian will repeat a rhyme. And also listen how he >sings that part. >Isn't >it a little "mortal"? I hear 'To make the *metal* sing'. As in heavy? Kind of makes sense, when you think about it. ===== -- Kev Music reviews: www.deepthought3.supanet.com/music ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:57:19 -0500 From: "Scott I. Gold" Subject: Re: does the moment sing? >Some posts ago someone gave us lyrics to HWWYHTBHW: > >"And when I have some words >This is the way I sing >Through a distortion box >To make the moment sing" > >I don't hear "the moment sing" but "mortal sin". And you? I don't suppose >Adrian will repeat a rhyme. And also listen how he sings that part. Isn't >it a little "mortal"? Actually "... Through a distortion box To make them menacing" This would actually make sense, and keep within the spirit of the rest of the lyrics. Scott I. Gold ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:26:11 -0800 From: "Sandra" Subject: 20 women in Guitar craft? > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:19:05 -0500 > From: "Jordan Clifford" > Subject: women in guitar craft? > >20 fine women from Guitar Craft > > I know there are a few, and I think CTR's merch manager is a graduate, > but > have there actually been 20 women in guitar craft? Hello Jordan! I assume you mean CGT's merch manager, which while that isn't a real title, would refer to me, I suppose, since I frequently arrange merchandise volunteers for them. (I know the original post where this came from was intended as humor, but as we all know, humor is not permitted) 1. IMO, you don't "graduate" from Guitar Craft. That would imply that you get a little certificate and go out in the world, and now you're a Crafty Guitarist. I am a part of the Guitar Craft Community. I attend courses and events. I would hesitate to assign the moniker "Guitarist" to myself at this point, much less "Crafty", although the movement is in that direction, constantly. I have lots of help available to me (especially now that I have moved to Seattle, where I am honored to be a part of the Seattle Guitar Circle). 2. There were 13 women at the course in Madrid a few weeks ago. Only a couple were on the Level 1 course. 3. On March 17, approximately 20 women will gather in Madison, Virginia for the week long "The Women's Retreat- The Craft of Voice and Music". While this is not an official Guitar Craft course, all of the instructors and organizers have been affiliated with Guitar Craft for many years. Some of the attendees will not be Crafties, but most are. Not all play the guitar. There will be singing. There are many more women who cannot attend in person who will be with us At A Distance. Information on the Women's Retreat, as well as other upcoming courses and workshops, can be found, as always, at http://www.guitarcraft.com Sandra Prow Krimson News http://www.krimson-news.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 08:45:04 -0500 From: "Roy Miles" Subject: GIG REVIEW: 3/6/03 Town Hall NYC Was sitting in the 8th row center for last night show, and I must say, it was a mixed bag for me.. Don't get me wrong, they were terrific, but they played 55 minutes and stood up and starting taking bows!! And then played a total of 4 more songs between running on and off the stage for a total of 1:20... Very, very very short show.. One other thing that bothered me a bit.. I have the new album, and last night they played everything basically completely verbatim for the album.. Not a note out of place... No improvisations, really.. They played the solos EXACTLY as they are on the album.. Not really what I expected from KC.. Roy from Brooklyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:19:20 EST From: Wilcox660 at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: Town Hall NYC March 6 SET: TPTB1 / Level Five Happy With... TCOL Elektrik Eyes Wide Open Prozakc Blues TPTB 2 Facts Of Life LTIA 4 ------- Dangerous Curves Oyster Soup ------------- Potato Pie wonderful set. too many high points to mention. no pre-TCOL material, but it made sense! a very exciting performance. my thanks to all! :o) John A.Wilcox - fatboy extraordinaire PS: Town Hall's balcony seats were designed for anorexic children & not fatboys like me! OUCH!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 20:31:49 -0500 From: Brian Preston Subject: GIG REVIEW: Asheville review-brief Havent seen any reviews of the recent shows yet. Feb 28 First show of tour: The Orange Peel; a large open standing only venue with a decidedly blues feel (think stripped down HOB). Nice stage, lights and unbelieveable sound system - although the bass frequencies were actually a bit much throughout- Trey's Warr was muddy in the low mids. Began right at 10pm. Fripp stage left and close to front, Trey stg right, belew middle front of course and PM on drum riser. Sold out at just under 1,000. (do the math @ $25 a head x how many shows?) I cant recall exact song order and, having not had TPTB at that time, I did not recognize 4-5 songs. As has been commented, they decided to only do Thrak forward material. I respect that but was surprised. I think they started with TCOL (?) They did quite a bit off of thrak and most, if not all, of TPTB. They did not do Potato Pie. The version of HTBHW was abbreviated - they cut a whole verse out- and that seemed strange considering its a new song. LTIV was performed very well and was much better live than the tedious muddy version on HTBHW. Played almost 2 hours with 2 Encores. 1st encore was a Trey Gunn piece which was great-dont know if its on TPTB - in some ways this was my favorite of the night. My memory escapes me but I know Prozac Blues was toward the end (or was it an encore?) 5th time I have seen them: 1982 Beat, 3x for Thrak 1995 in SF, and then this show. Overall impressions: Heavy heavy complex thick chunky- really pushing the thick & heavy (again the Tool-influence issue seems apparent). Best view of Fripp and best I have heard him in the mix. He was beautiful all night and seemed to be enjoying it very much. Didnt notice but one flub but Im sure they found others. At the very end Fripp stood to the side applauding his band mates who all came out front to wave. Fripp was of course reserved but again never seemed to grimace due to any True Fans problems or performance grief. Perhaps he is most forgiving on the first show of the tour. Audience was very good - even though we had to stand the whole time which was a problem for more than a few folks. A lot of song suggestions shouted between but the whole night had a rock show feel so it all seemed to fit right in. Merchandise was all availabe: TPTB for $20 so I will use my B&N discount. My friends picked up shirts and hats. I have too many to fit in my dressers. Asheville is a super cool town to hang in downtown and many of us headed to one of the many night clubs for late night party action - also the entertainment weekly had KC on the front page - but it was a sophmoric tongue in cheek 'review' which took too many liberties with the truth. Fripp's reviewer perspectve fit right in with this one: more about the reviewer than about the band being reviewed. there you have it - enjoy the shows! ************************************************************************ Brian Preston/Metaphoric Music Productions Smokin'Granny http://meta4ik.home.mindspring.com/smokingranny http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/smokingranny2 (sound files) Krimson News Radio http://www.live365.com/stations/crim75 (SG in rotation) Onomata http://www.umbrellarecordings.com/feature.html Groove Stream Attractor http://hometown.aol.com/tjohn62124/groovestreamattractor.html http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue20/groove01.html ******** ******** ******** ******** "When people are coupled together through musicking, each steers his or her own raft of subjectivity into the collective sea of neurodynamics." William Benzon in 'Beethoven's Anvil: Music in Mind & Culture' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 11:49:41 -0500 From: "philip m. quirk" Subject: GIG REVIEW: CONCERT HEAVEN Hello all from the garden spot of the universe, Brooklyn NY: I and two friends went to see KC last night at Town Hall. Armed with third row tix, I had forgotten that the front row of Town Hall is only about three feet from the stage! So we were about 9-10 feet from the stage! It seem almost an exercise in futility to attempt to find enough superlatives to describe the band and their performance- awe-inspiring, tight, telepathic, intense,driven, powerful, these and many more could not begin to do them justice.One of my friends characterized Trey's playing as 'superhuman', and I agree completely.However, that same description could apply to all four players. They are at once a unit and four extraordinary individuals. If you wanted great solos, there were many, if your fancy is knotty interplay and group work there was much to hear. I don't know the setlist, but there was nothing prior to Thrak that was played, but this group could play 'Mary had a Little Lamb' and it would ROCK! If any of you folks out there are hedging or still pondering whether to go to a gig, rush to Ticketbastard, box office, anyone with tix to sell and make sure you see this tour. Put aside any reservations about not hearing any of the oldies(Discipline is over 20 years old) and enjoy a band at the peak of its creative powers that can rock you and make the hair on the back of your neck stand up simultaneously! Sorry to gush there, but it's the morning after and I'm still floating from last night's gig. "90% of baseball is half mental"- Yogi Berra ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1101 *********************************