Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1098 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1098 Thursday, 6 March 2003 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Chicago, Park West, March 14, One Ticket GIG BIZ: Orpheum Tickets & carpool from central New York Crimson to play no songs from before '99 The True Enthusiasts CC/TB/SCI/KC Hear hear; old songs; favorite venue The Power To Believe - observations avoiding the lower levels; breathless Re: les opening for KC? women in guitar craft? KC tour 2003/ Tour Box Larks horde; does the moment sing?; EWO & TPTB Re: tlev w/ govt mule beacon theatre 12/30&31/02 tracks Re: Opening Acts / live No Montreal Show!!!!!! Power to Believe on DAPRR Re: Michael Giles leaving 21CSB David Torn Affecting Change Extra ticket for KC @ Luther Burbank center in Santa Rosa CA, need cmpany. ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:49:51 -0600 From: "Nadim S. Haque" Subject: GIG BIZ: Chicago, Park West, March 14, One Ticket Hello everybody! After much asking, asking again, and asking again, again, my friend has convinced me that he can't come to the 3/14 show at Park West in Chicago. Thus I have one ticket for that night for sale or swap. I'll give away the ticket (Dancefloor, Row G2, Seat 57) for the face value price of $40.00 (believe me, I've paid an additional $10.00 in TM fees) or for a ticket to the Saturday, 3/15 show (hey, seeing KC twice on one weekend sounds pretty good, doesn't it?). If anyone is interested, please let me know: nsh at slicedsuitcase dot com. Cheers, Nadim ---------- Nadim S. Haque sliced|suitcase internet services (312) 804-4932 - www.slicedsuitcase.com 'We move forward by coming from.` - Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:08:46 -0500 (EST) From: david craig Subject: GIG BIZ: Orpheum Tickets & carpool from central New York I have two tickets to the show next Saturday at the Boston Orpheum. Orchestra, Row U, seats 213 and 214. I'm willing to eat the TicketBastard charges and let them go for $75, slightly below the face value ($38.50 each.) I also have a SINGLE ticket next to me, row PP, since my wife can't make the show. I'm holding this one out in the hopes that there's someone in central New York who might be interested in a carpool. (I live in Oneonta.) I need to leave Saturday and return Sunday, and would probably want to crash at a hotel outside of Boston, say along the Mass Pike. TTFN, David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 05:46:24 -0600 From: Jeff Bridge Subject: Crimson to play no songs from before '99 I read in a recent interview www.mountainx.com that Robert Fripp wishes that King Crimson play no material older than 1999. I think this is such a fine idea and proof that King Crimson do not do nostalgia tours for audiences who haven't moved along with the band. Live, this incarnation of King Crimson is the best live unit the band has ever had and the decision to drop Levin and Bruford has never seemed more valid. I am not a huge fan of The ConstruKCtion of Light album but I believe that when songs off of that album are performed live they're amazing and If the new album is good I can't wait to hear those tracks live. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:18:44 -0500 From: "Arnold Schulberg" Subject: The True Enthusiasts Ced Hendrix wrote: On behalf of the true enthusiasts of King Crimson, I wish to offer the following attempt at a ray of hope toward Robert, Adrian, Trey and P@, as they prepare to hit the road once again. Please don't let the "true fans" and their ignorance bring you down. Please do not let these chowderheads ruin the gift you possess, nor dampen your will to bring it to those who appreciate it. We, The True Enthusiasts, have reached an unspoken understanding with you, the musicians. The True Enthusiast: 1) Understands that if we don't like the sound of the new record, then we do not have to buy it. 2) Understands that if we feel the price of a concert ticket is too high, then we do not have to attend. 3) Understands that you do not want your concerts recorded, photgraphed, or broadcast via cell phone, so we will not attempt to do so. 4) Understands that Robert requires his space, does not want to sign anything, does not have picks to give away, and does not wish to engage in protracted, irrelevant conversation. So we will not engage nor ask. 5) Understands that expectation is a prison, and that the greatest gift a musician can receive is the willingness of an audient to accept the sounds the musician puts forth, rather than those the audient would anticipate. It is not my attempt to sound like some mindless robot, or like I have been brainwashed by the Philosophy of Fripp (whatever that is percieved to be). Rather, I am simply saying that the rules are in place, they are understood, and The True Enthusiasts accepts them. Or, he relegates himself to "True Fan," heads for the basement, and screams for "Ladies of the Road," while holding his cell phone high above him. Good luck with the tour. I hope to see you out there. Peace, Cedric Hendrix cirdec at brick dot net [ Can posters please remember to properly indent and quote previous posts they reference. Thank you. --Toby ] Oh, please! Is this supposed to be satire? I certainly hope so. Why this need to divide fans into two classes? How arrogant. How many bands are there that have fans who feel that they must abide by certain rules? This is a newsletter for fans of a musical group not members of a religious sect. Suppose someone just wants to go and see the band and have a good night out? Is that permissible? Probably not, 'cause then they won't be True Enthusiasts!!! What humorless and sanctimonious twaddle. Arnold Schulberg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:02:58 -0500 From: "Gamblin, Glenn" Subject: CC/TB/SCI/KC It's all very sad. Megacorp thwarts aims of mini-biz to direct-market tix to afficionados of cult offering. (sound of a weeping mass of humanity). Oh well. Megacorps can be like that, sometimes. Usually. And then I think: "Who is the victim?" and "What is the crime?" "Where are my chickpeas?" and "Who has the time?" Heavens to Betsy, boys! If you don't like dealing with Megacorps, by all means, don't! Wifey buys her organic veggies, I don't patronize Sears, the kids have never owned a major-label release in their lives...but when it comes to seeing 'Dear old uncle Bobby,' I don't bitch about the price. Glenn G. Gamblin <>< TradePoint Systems, LLC ggamblin at tradepointsystems dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:27:54 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Hear hear; old songs; favorite venue >It is not my attempt to sound like some mindless robot, or like I have been brainwashed by the Philosophy of Fripp (whatever that is percieved to be). Rather, I am simply saying that the rules are in place, they are understood, and The True Enthusiasts accepts them. Right on Cedric. >Also, wondering if anyone had any hopes on old pieces they might perform? Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part 1. They played a snippet of it during the song Level 5 on their last tour - I'd like to hear them go for the whole thing, including Adrian on violin cadenza. >Adrian also said that robert had mentioned possibly having a go at Larks Tongue In Aspic Part II, a song which i would also love to hear live. Both the 4-piece from the 80s and the 6- piece from the 90s have done amazing renditions of that song. >So, where is your favorite venue? The last two places that I have seen King Crimson: The Fillmore in San Francisco, and House of Blues in Las Vegas. - S. np: Deep Purple, Machine Head scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:48:48 +0000 From: Matt Nolan Subject: The Power To Believe - observations OK, I'll admit it. I couldn't wait. I got a copy from cdwow.com. It arrived yesterday. If you want to wait to hear it yourself then please skip to the next post. Otherwise please read on. Not really a review as such. It's too early for that. Just a few observations that I'd like to convey to anyone who's interested. First off - I like it (to coin a phrase). Since the Mastelotto "driven" ProjeKts I've been very keen on the potential of the new Crimson (don't get me wrong, there's equal affection in my listening world for Bruford, Levin, The Double Trio and before...) but I don't really think that TCoL really nailed it. What's more the sound production on TCoL didn't help in the slightest. The Level 5 EP had me even more keen on the potential (I hope that doesn't count as being imprisoned by expectation ;-) with "Dangerous Curves" getting my juices going especially. The Happy EP was less impressive (but still great - especially the title track - what a hoot!) I think that with the new album, they have really nailed it. There's a powerful, cohesive force at work here. "Level 5" had me grinning from ear to ear on first listening. On the L5 EP I liked this track a lot (though I had slight reservations about the meat and two veg rock drumming - better than much of TCoL, but felt a little like a backwards step to me). The "finished" album version is simply stunning. I like "Eyes Wide Open" more than on the Happy EP, though it does have echoes of late, stadium Genesis mixed with something else I can't quite put my finger on (in the vocal stylings). The non-acoustic version sounds more rounded to me. "Dangerous Curves" is interesting. A different treatment than on the L5 EP - but nicely different. Neither version is a pale shadow of the other. They are sufficiently different to be enjoyed separately and on their own merits. I love the "live" feel of the EP version, and the percussion, triggered sequences and samples. The album version is less organic - more produced and deliberate. You could slip it into a Faithless set and nobody would realise - especially when that off-beat hi-hat comes in. "Facts of Life" rocks in a lovely dirty way. Quite a funky swagger too. The title track movements and Elektrik are growing on me. There are certainly plenty of surprises in these and the other tracks. Adrian's solo guitar lines are fantastic as ever. They've really developed a unique voice that started back with Indiscipline, seen sparkling on TCoL and, perhaps the only complaint possible here, just a little low in the mix sometimes on Power To Believe. Otherwise, the production is excellent, especially the drums and electronic / processed percussion. Great snare and cymbal sounds abound. The Mastelotto / Gunn rhythm section kicks the proverbial and Robert Fripp is everywhere, in some places on fire! Well, that's me done gushing for a while. The prospect of how this material will further mature live is good. I just hope they get some good luck with venue acoustics. Cheers all, Matt Nolan. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:46:08 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Miller Subject: avoiding the lower levels; breathless Gentle Readers, I just read something written by M.J. Adler in 1939. It somehow reminds me of, well... Here's the quote: "You cannot elevate people by going down to their level. If they succeed in getting you there, there they will keep you, for it is easier to get you to stay down than for them to move up." Words by which to live. I'm looking forward to an evening of not intersecting with Prof. Fripp's space and not asking for autographs. I think they should surprise us all with a performance of "Breathless". It deserves to be heard live. It wants to be heard live. It demands to be heard... Glenn Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:09:57 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: les opening for KC? >>I heard that Belew was/is doing work with Les Claypool, why not see the flying frog brigade open for KC? as much as i'd love to see that, i think the frog brigade would take yo u out of the element and would have a different atmosphere than a KC (at least, this incarnation) show has. But I would love to see that. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:19:05 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: women in guitar craft? >20 fine women from Guitar Craft I know there are a few, and I think CTR's merch manager is a graduate, but have there actually been 20 women in guitar craft? ------------------------------ Date: 26 Feb 2003 09:16:31 +0000 From: purchase at chichester1780 dot freeserve dot co dot uk Subject: KC tour 2003/ Tour Box Can I be one of the first to ask any fans fortunate enough to be going to the 2003 concerts to obtain a spare copy of the Tour Box (only available at gigs)?. In the UK, so not much chance of seeing the band therefore very grateful for any help...all costs covered of coure, and some 'rare' material in exchange. Many thanks. Replies of list please. N ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:27:57 +0100 From: tomektal at poczta dot onet dot pl Subject: Larks horde; does the moment sing?; EWO & TPTB Hello, fellow ETers. Not a short post and a few topics, but it's my first appearance here since a long time, so forgive me (and my english). 1. In one of the recent interviews Adrian Belew mentioned Fripp wanting KC to recover LTIA Pt.2 on their concerts once again. I suppose they will also play the fourth part of Larks'. I definetely think current line up is the most proper for first time playing all four parts of Larks' Tongues in Aspic in a row! At last! Strange that this monumental piece - which is also a journey through everything that unites crimson music in history and a proof that the thing what RF calls KC spirit really exists - hasn't been played since its closing on TCOL. Or maybe it isn't one monumental piece but only four pieces with similar idea? Discuss. Personally I'd be very curious of Part 1. I think it's been the first time for years when Boys are able to manage with lyrical parts of LTIA 1. Just listen to Power to Believe II. I'm impressed of the gentleness, calm and beauty that Crimson has rediscovered recently. King Crimson playing suites (the whole piece will be ca. 40 minutes long!)? And why not? All four hordes of larks are waiting to unite and hurtle down to the audience's minds. 1a. Is The Power to Believe I-IV the second candidate for such an experiment? 2. Some posts ago someone gave us lyrics to HWWYHTBHW: "And when I have some words This is the way I sing Through a distortion box To make the moment sing" I don't hear "the moment sing" but "mortal sin". And you? I don't suppose Adrian will repeat a rhyme. And also listen how he sings that part. Isn't it a little "mortal"? 3. I finally got my copy of TPTB. Official release in Poland was on 28.02.03. And no - you are not suckers :). The album hasn't got the lyrics printed. It confirms they weren't so important in this LP. And indeed, they aren't Adrians's best proposal. But there's a little gem here: Eyes Wide Open Well here it comes Here comes another day Another decision on a way Well here it comes Here comes a colour display Of preferences to make Well here it comes Here comes a knock on a door Opened for an oportunity Well here it comes Here comes another day For memories to be made Eyes wide open Eyes wide open All the time And there it was It was a perfect take And were you asleep or awake And there it was It was a perfect time To speak your mind And there it was It was a chance of a lifetime Flew right by What did you do Well there it was It was another day For memories to be made Eyes wide open Eyes wide open All the time I've got my eyes wide open Eyes wide open All the time Because you never know what you might see Eyes wide open Eyes wide open All the time I've got my eyes wide open All the time Eyes wide open Because you never know what you might see Beautifull song and bautifull lyrics. Very. And a great album too. Far mor coherent than Thrak, not to mention TCOL. Boys ar controlling everything. Their self-confidence is visible and audible. Highlights: Level Five (power), Eyes Wide Open (song), Elektrik (structure), TPTB II (poetry), Dangerous Curves (fear). Great sleeve design and cover artwork. More comments later (maybe). I have to listen and think a little more. Cheers, Tomek Talerzak ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |"The fate of all mankind, I see, is in the hands of fools"| | Peter Sinfield | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:02:46 +0000 From: "Spear man" Subject: Re: tlev w/ govt mule beacon theatre 12/30&31/02 tracks a few folks have sent email to me asking about the tony levin sitting in with govt mule mp3 tracks I mentioned at www.nugs.net. apparently it came down a few days after my message was posted to elelphant talk. I've found the music via www.philzone.com if you follow these instructions: go to http://www.philzone.com click on 'soundzone' near the top of the page scroll thru frames until you find a folder 'mulezone' click on said folder scroll down about 1/3 of the way where you find two folders one 12-30-02 the other 12-31-02 click on either one desired. the folders should open up showing disc 1, 2, 3 etc and then right click on the mp3 files as necessary to download. happy dling. --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:50:34 -0800 From: "Andy Gower" Subject: Re: Opening Acts / live >From: "sportsterrpm1" >Crimheads; > I haven't heared anyone mention 21st CSB as a possible opening act >lately!!! These guys would be the absolute best choice to open for KC. You >get the old and the new!!! How could you not enjoy this show!!! Has anybody >heard if the two bands have talked about this? I thought Robert would be >very encourageing to any past bandmates willing to reserect the old stuff >...And give them a hand to expose them to the perfect audience market... >Alot of these people haven't heard of them yet...And most of us have the >resources to support the work of both bands... Looking forward to >Boston....Rick I think this is a great idea! 21CSB could play a lot the songs that KC doesn't want to play anymore. A similar relationship occurred in the 80s when a reformed Wire hired a Wire cover band (Ex Lion Tamer I think) to cover all the (classic) material that Wire didn't have any interest in playing anymore. >From: stgor at apricorn dot com (Steven Gordon) >I was wondering if anyone could send me a list of the most essential >King Crimson live cd's from each era. Is there any material on the >frame by frame boxed set that is not available anywhere else? Your best choice for live CDs of KC is to start with the official releases of each era: Epitaph, Ladies Of The Road, The Nightwatch (or The Great Deceiver for a more thorough look at this band), Absent Lovers, Heavy Construction. The KC Collectors Club releases offer furthur stuff if you're interested in more, but the major releases almost always have the best sound quality and are the best place to start. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:46:51 -0500 From: "Phil Evans" Subject: No Montreal Show!!!!!! Does anyone know why there is no Montreal Show on this leg of the tour? - There are a couple of dates that would fit nicely (March 9 & 11th) - They always draw an enthusiastic sellout crowd - There appear to be a number of suitable venues available T'anks phil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:14:40 -0500 From: John Garaguso Subject: Power to Believe on DAPRR Delicious Agony will be premiering the new King Crimson album, "The Power to Believe" during our Featured Artist show on Tuesday, March 4th, 10pm EST and again on Wednesday, March 5th, 3pm EST. We'll play "The Power to Believe" in its entirety, along with a variety of other King Crimson tracks (www.disciplineglobalmobile.com). The release date for "The Power to Believe" is March 4th and King Crimson begin their North American tour this Friday, February 28th. . - www.deliciousagony.com Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio, LIVE 24/7 on the Internet Progressive: Moving forward; advancing; making use of new ideas; promoting or favoring progress toward better ideas or methods. Our Site: http://www.deliciousagony.com To connect, go to: http://peace.str3am.com:6140 (for media player, see our site) We are a proud member of The Progressive Rock Radio Network (www.progradio.net) Please support the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation's Anti-Landmine Efforts (www.vvaf.org) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:45:35 -0800 From: "Andy Gower" Subject: Re: Michael Giles leaving 21CSB >From: Steven Munari >Subject: Re: It's time to vote in MD's annual poll/Crimson drummers/Mike > Ok on Mike Giles. I know everyone reading this already knows Michael quit >the great "21st Cen. Schizoid Band" & will be replaced by Ian Wallace, >whom I feel is a "great" choice to fill Michael's shoe's, as I always >thought Ian was 1 of KC's finest drummers!However i'd like to know why he >quit? I think the KrimNews item said that it was personal reasons. Not to pry into personal lives or anything, but I hope it isn't anything due to health reasons! The thought of Mike leaving is relieved by the happiness of seeing Ian Wallace assume the drum duties. Looking forward to the DVD of the band from Tokyo, Andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:52:39 -0500 From: eric dot johnson at dpsnc dot net Subject: David Torn Crimsophiles following David Torn may enjoy his contributions to Robert Rich's Seven Veils.For anyone unfamiliar with Robert Rich, he has created an extraordinary body of music that falls between many cracks of categorization. I stongly suggest exploring his works, which can often be found in the New age section of larger music distribution chains. Though I'm sure many readers of this newsletter would normally shy from anything carrying the New Age label (I do), let's not forget the market forces that drove the creation of such a label. You'll see that Robert Rich's bin will be in close proximity to Steve Roach's, which contains his most recent collaboration with Robert Fripp. As an introdution to Rich's music for Crimson lovers, I would suggest Seven Veils, Propogation, Rainforest, and Bestiary. Visit his site: www.robertrich.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:37:07 -0600 From: "Brothers, Michael (IA)" Subject: Affecting Change Dave wrote: >I become increasingly convinced that where Pearl Jam failed, the ticket >buying public can succeed. (Somehow, I don't have an immediate answer) >All I know is the customer IS King and when and where necessary we CAN >overcome people like Ticketmaster. Right now I don't know how. Anybody?? This is a very sharp, double-edged sword. For the customer to be truly king--if we vote with our feet by not buying Ticketmaster tickets or attending ClearChannel venues--we would end up hurting the acts we love and want to support. The Radiohead story told in a previous edition is illustrative in the problems inherent in using alternative venues. I feel the only way to break the perceived stranglehold of TM and CC is to lobby your congressman to have them investigated for monopolistic practices. Looking forward to March 15th in Chicago. mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 06:52:44 -0800 From: kkling at groeniger dot com (Ken Kling) Subject: Extra ticket for KC @ Luther Burbank center in Santa Rosa CA, need cmpany. Hello I have an extra ticket, for the 3-20-03 show in Santa Rosa, am looking for a fellow crimhead(hopefully female), to accompany me. I don't know to many people in S.R. area and none that appreciate the beauty of KC inflight. So any fellow crimheads give an email. Thank you Ken Kenneth Kling ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1098 *********************************