Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1095 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1095 Thursday, 20 February 2003 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Boston Orpheum ticket? A "model" Bill A Capella/Recycling Re: Crimson in the south King Crimson date in San Diego? anything in my crimson catalog in trade for power to believe Re: Kc Screws fans/SCI ticketing Re: Kc Screws fans/SCI ticketing KC disliked? KC live trax on the radio Re: Kc Screws fans/SCI ticketing ? Clear Channel and "Bobby" Fripp 21st Century Schizoid Band in Russia Ticketing American Crimson! (file under humor, such as it is) DIS'D IN THE DESERT The Power to Believe CWilson's comment about SCI and KC Screwing Fans Giles, Giles and Fripp Re: Kc Screws fans/SCI ticketing ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:32:17 -0500 (EST) From: david craig Subject: GIG BIZ: Boston Orpheum ticket? I didn't catch wind of the Boston show until I saw it on ET, and by then all the good seats were gone. The best I was able to do was row U, which if you know the Orpheum is pretty awful. If there's someone out there with an extra you'd like to pass on to a fellow ET'er, I'd love to hear from you! I just need a single ticket; my wife can't come to this one. Thanks, David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:14:24 EST From: DFN701 at aol dot com Subject: A "model" Bill In winding (and grinding) my way through Sid Smith's entertaining account of the performance of Trio (Concertgebouw, released on S&BB), I was reminded of the class Bill Bruford is capable of demonstrating, as he opted to "play" the piece with his sticks at rest on his chest, instead of noodling about on his drums and traps (as might be expected of merely mortal percussionists). And now I am curious to know if anyone out there in Crim Land is aware of the existence of a photo of Bill in this particular context? Thanks to Dr. Howard for pointing out David Torn's "Cloud About Mercury." It was awarded a spot on my desert island disc shelf in 1987, where it remains handy for the occasional indulgence. And yes, I kept my vinyl copy even after I bought the CD. For those unfortunate unfamiliars, David Torn has done some other incredible work, however, this "Dream Team" helped him produce his finest work, in my opinion. Another "Dream Team" recording along the Bruford Levin thread is practically buried near the end of side two of Al DiMeola's "Scenario" (1983). "Calliope" exhibits 4:19 of Al, Bill, Tony, and Jan (Hammer) in fine and energetic form, but leaves me wanting more. I have often wondered if there are other tracks from this ensemble floating around in the post-vinyl world. Yet another "Dream Team" recording, which includes Torn and Isham (but neither of the former Crims), is found on Michael Shrieve's "Stiletto." Andy Summers and a bassist named Terje Gewelt round out the lineup for this most interesting and colorful (albeit short) space-jazz excursion. Unfortunately, it's out of print, but well worth the effort to track it down. I might be persuaded to burn a copy in return for, say, a photo of Bill with his sticks crossed during "Trio," or some additional Al-Bill-Tony tracks-on-cd (or cassette). Cheers, Smug aka DFN701 at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:14:57 -0500 (EST) From: ewok_lij at localnet dot com Subject: A Capella/Recycling I'm 17 years old, and about a 2 year old crim fan and I have just downloaded the entire "The Power To Believe" off of WinMX, which I don't really like to do, but since the US is getting the proverbial shaft by not getting the album until a month later, worst has come to worst. I'll still buy the album when it comes out...but anyhow... On "TPTB: A Capella" starts off "She carries me, through days of apathy" Then I thought "i've heard those words before!" A quick spin of Op Zop Too Wah proved that these words also start "All Her Love is Mine"I don't really feel disappointed, but rather curious why Crim would "recycle" these sort of things. Does anyone have thoughts about this? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:49:49 EST From: VincentDeBoule at aol dot com Subject: Re: Crimson in the south I'm gonna be in England for ten days this summer. What would REALLY be great is if Crimson happens to be touring there at the time. But, alas, I'm dreaming. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:23:00 -0800 From: Gary Loudermilk Subject: King Crimson date in San Diego? Does anyone know if KC will be stopping in sunny San Diego on their upcoming tour? I didn't see our fair city mentioned on list of tour dates. My disappointment is starting to mount. Thanks, Gary by the bay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:09:30 -0800 From: ira aronin Subject: anything in my crimson catalog in trade for power to believe i've got a lot of stuff including collectors club except for the two most recent releases. would be happy to trade for TPTB. mail to: aronin at teleport dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:49:41 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Re: Kc Screws fans/SCI ticketing In a message dated Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:24:29 -0800, elric at null dot net writes: "The Fripper 'mandating' crapola guidelines?... that keeps me from getting 'true-fan' tickets ahead of time? Could it be The Fripper & Co. wants a piece of the $15 'membership fee'?????? In which case, I have a simple reply: Bobby, kiss my arse" Yo! Read the SCI announcement - the mandate is not from Fripp, or Crimson, or Crimson management. It is from Clear Channel controlled venues. Ssshhh! And get off your high horse. A "true-fan" wouldn't be so quick to make such a leap of judgement. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:27:23 -0500 (EST) From: david craig Subject: Re: Kc Screws fans/SCI ticketing > Bobby, kiss my arse If I'm not mistaken, the requirements being referred to in the note from SCI are those of CLEAR CHANNEL attempting to short-circuit the growing movement of bands ticketing their own shows, NOT Fripp and the band. In case you hadn't heard, CC's a monopoly. Slagging KC for this is just confused. Direct your anger where it belongs: Clear Channel, and a US administration which thinks monopolies are just peachy keen. David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:26:40 -0000 From: "Simon Calkin" Subject: KC disliked? This from Robert's diary (a recent entry): In the UK, Crimson is generally regarded as historic, mostly disliked. I would venture to suggest that this is inevitable if a band does not tour in the U.K. Your average Joe in the street would probably be surprised that KC even exists,as it's not toured in the UK to any significant extent since the early 1980s. The reasons for not touring (in the UK) may be many and various,but the above outcome isn't difficult to predict. The people who lose out the most are those punters in the UK who do not get the chance to see KC,short of flying great distances;this is unfortunate. > Simon Calkin > Broadcast Systems Engineer > Support Services,News Resources ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:58:25 -0000 From: "Mike" Subject: KC live trax on the radio > Well it says 1970 but as the line up was announced as Fripp/Bruford/Wetton it couldn't be could it? Also it sounded as though David Cross was in there too. Yeah, Janice Long announced it as 1973 at the end. mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:51:13 -0600 From: Albert Oller Subject: Re: Kc Screws fans/SCI ticketing ? Hi 'True Fan' and/or 'Enthusiasts', Do you know if what SCI reports on their website is factual? Even if what SCI reports is true, have you heard any other side of the situation? Is it possible that there are reasons for these "mandates"? How are fans screwed by this, if it didn't happen? I saw the posting on SCI's website, and I was curious about what did happen. For my part, I would have been happier getting the tickets through SCI, rather than Ticketmaster because of Ticketmaster's excess handling fees and past business practices. But, luckily for me, someone posted to ET that he had gotten tickets to the Boston show through Ticketmaster and I decided to go there in order to guarantee myself tickets to the show. I made a decision based on information available to me. I'm not really curious as to why people try to belittle Robert Fripp by calling him "Fripper" or "Bobby" because that is juvenile, but I do wonder what is wrong? Regards, ago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:40:37 -0500 From: "Bob Bennett" Subject: Clear Channel and "Bobby" Fripp In response to the post suggesting Crimson is sucking Clear Channel's "tit", I would draw your attention to the "war" Pearl Jam attempted to wage against Ticketmaster (and lost). The reason being, acts have to book shows at theaters in order to tour. These venues have entered into booking agreements with various promoters and ticket vendors. Therefore, for an act to play a certain city, they often times have no choice over who is "allowed" to sell the tickets for the show or who promotes the show. This fact is regrettable of course, but usually has nothing to do with the band or their wishes in this regard. Bobby, I doubt, had any control over what theater he plays in Detroit (where I live). So , he or the band can opt to not play cities such as Detroit, which are strangled by Clear Channel and Ticketmaster, or he can try to pull off what Pearl Jam and Tom Petty were unable to accomplish - which is play venues without promotion contracts to Clear Channel and Ticketmaster - which often times left them with no place to play their show in a particular city. In Detroit, for example, there is only one or two small venues (i.e. clubs), which are not tied to Clear Channel or Ticketmaster. These "clubs" would be a great place to see Crimson, from a fan's prepective, but would probably not seat enough people to justify the cost of coming to that particular location. Further, many cities, unlike say New York, L.A. or Chicago, do not have numerous alternative venues for a band's choosing. To the contrary, in most cities there are only a couple of suitable venues for bands with followings like Crimson, to say nothing of the more main stream bands, to play. These venues all seem to be tied to the likes of Clear Channel and Ticketmaster. I am afraid this is the sorry-state of affairs in modern day show business, but it is not the fault of the bands and they don't make "extra" money for these types of decisions. So , I would suggest your research your facts before you imply Fripp or Crimson (or any other band for that matter) is making "side deals" in order to screw the fans in the name of more money. Bob Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:58:55 -0600 From: "Alexander Domrin" Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band in Russia I've just heard from Moscow that 21st Century Schizoid Band will be playing in Russia in March. At least two dates are official now: March 12 - DK Lensovieta, St. Petersburg; March 14 - "Russia" Concert Hall, Moscow. For more information call these phones (in Moscow): 7-095-280-4160, 337-6083 or send a message to info at bepx dot ru King Crimson allegedly plans to play in Russia in June. Regards, Alex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:05:23 -0800 From: "Allyson Riley & John Sullivan" Subject: Ticketing Yeah right, King Crimson is now a "Clear Channel lackey". Fripp is staying up all night counting enormous piles of cash, chuckling his evil chuckle over how he's screwing over his fans. I mean, if you think about, it's obvious every decision he's made over the past decades has been to make those giant wads of money we all know he's sitting on. ("Oh by the way, I was being sarcastic." - H. Simpson) I don't think Fripp/Crimson are "mandating" the buyer club nonsense, as far as I know that's Ticketmaster/ClearChannel's "compromise" to enable fan clubs to sell a handful of tickets. Didn't work so well here in Seattle. Tickets were up on Ticketmaster's site before they showed up on SCITicketing.com. What do you think I did? Yep, paid an extra 8 or 9 dollars and got my ticket. I don't know the intricacies of the business, but I doubt if the artist has that much say. For now, Ticketmaster has the monopoly, and nobody has been able to shake them loose. Life sucks sometimes, doesn't it? Blaming the artist doesn't make sense to me, but hey, if it makes you feel better. And I really hope there's no opening act. Less is usually more in that regard. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:13:37 -0800 (PST) From: Douglas Arthur Subject: American Crimson! (file under humor, such as it is) With Simon Cowell from American Idol already bowing out of any future installments of the series, I began to think about who might be best suited to replace him as judge. Why not Fripp? he certainly fits the bill of an ill-tempered Brit who is quick with the insult. Of course Ade, Pat and trey could become the new house band and force everyone to try and sing Cage. I can hear it now.."Dismal" "Pathetic""absolutely horrid" Sure the contestants can fake their way through the "standards", but a true test of talent is someone who can tackle the intricacies of "Great Deceiver" or "One More Red Nightmare" Or maybe Eno. "Now try it as a dog" ===== Tales From The Dougside Comics For People Who Hate Superheroes. www.dougside.50megs.com Anti-Social Lawnmower is coming in 2003! A 200 page compendium of all things Dougside! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:43:50 -0700 From: "Jeff Runkle" Subject: DIS'D IN THE DESERT WHAT? No Phoenix show? THAT'S INSANE!!! JR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:06:18 -0000 From: "bott" Subject: The Power to Believe Not that I like to promote businesses at the expense of DGM, but CD-WOW are selling TPTB.....now.....at an incredible #8.99, and my new copy is manufactured in the UK! So, before the official UK release date, and cheap to boot! Now that's what I call a real deal! Oh, and if that isn't enough....it's an awesome album. I always liked Dangerous Curves best off the Level 5 CD, but it now transcends that version. Oh, and Classic Rock's review shows you can not always trust a reviewer to know his arse from his elbow! Let's hope that this trite bit of pseudo-journalism does not put the boys off doing a proper tour of the UK (ie outside London.) We have quite a nice little venue in Derby that I would love to see Crimsoned! Currently listening to - TPTB and Progress c.1978. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:42:52 -0500 From: Michael dot Russell at mercerdelta dot com Subject: CWilson's comment about SCI and KC Screwing Fans Friends-- It is alarming to see CWilson jump to the conclusion that the SCI message regarding Clear Channel means that Fripp/Crimson have imposed various guidelines, including "fan club rules" and a $15. membership fee. Actually, I strongly suspect the band have nothing whatsoever to do with this. As Pearl Jam discovered when they tried unsuccessfully to sell low priced tickets in regions controlled by Ticket Master, the ticket business in the US is a regional-by region monopoly, where price fixing schemes by ticket distribution networks are rampant. A band has no ability to set ticket prices in many markets, New York included. Crimson has no ability to influence Clear Channel's policy save one: not to include the New York region on this tour. In this example, we've probably identified one of the unreasonable conditions which Robert's on-line diary describes as life-draining. That he and Crimson still attempt to communicate with us musically despite an entertainment industry in this country that seems bent on making the experience uncomfortable and expensive for both artists and audience is a testament of determination and commitment. I found SCI's decision to refuse to participate in Clear Channel's unreasonable scheme admirable: they acted in accordance with principle. This is a rare sight to behold. In these difficult times, hopes that all are safe and well. --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:18:45 +0000 From: "kenneth cribb" Subject: Giles, Giles and Fripp I bought a copy of this album from Woolworths for 35 pence about 25 years ago. It was in the reduced bin! A couple of years ago when RF did his web talk I asked him if he thought it was worth anything and I got the shortest reply of any question ...... NO. It's still on the web somewhere. And I've still got the album. Ken Cribb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:47:42 -0600 From: "Brothers, Michael (IA)" Subject: Re: Kc Screws fans/SCI ticketing It's hard to respond to "True-fan's" post without seeming to fully support the Ticketmaster/Clear Channel cabal that now controls the vast majority of live music in the USA. However, I must try. My main beef with True-fan is how personal he got regarding 'Bobby' and his apparently money-grubbing ways. I didn't see any indication that RF or the band management had anything to do with SCI not being able to handle ticket sales for this tour. It is quite possible that federal regulations require SCI to charge the $15 fee, since they are performing a service that puts a percentage of commodity (ie. tickets) out of reach of the general public. Could be that RF didn't want to soak his fans for any more money than he had to. As for money-grubbing, who can blame the band for wanting to maximize their profits? It's not like they are playing 15,000 seat arenas; they need to charge enough to make the tour worth their while and get paid too. If anything, RF is being generous because he has to know that the rabid nature of KC followers would probably lead them to part with $100 or more for a ticket. And what exactly is wrong with playing ClearChannel venues? The ClearChannel shows I have attended have been in clean facilities and are well-organized. They offer a mid-market band like KC more promotion than they could ever hope to get with an independent promoter. Clear Channel is not inherently "evil" simply because they have figured out how to dominate the concert market. All that said, I admire True-fan's fervor. He doesn't like the system and seems willing to vote with his feet to bring about change. Go ahead and rant and rave and petition and so forth to bring about the change you desire, True-fan, but you can do without name-calling and jumping to conclusions. Take Care, mike ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1095 *********************************