Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1091 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1091 Thursday, 6 February 2003 Today's Topics: private lives: biography vs. gossip Top 5 selection Listening to 21CSB Dinosaurs CD Flaws KC possible opening acts Scratched CDs/Personal lives of musicians atlanta tix Pollstar Wyatt + Eno Re: CD dURability/the red book scratchd cd,s When is Mexico???? Re: Vicious circle (or is that virtuous?) Re: Questions Re: The final word on scratched CD's Private Lives Crimson Ticket prices Steve & Bill - Thanks Guys! Teenagers breaking things Private Lives and a Life in Art ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:53:18 -0700 From: "Moshier, John T" Subject: private lives: biography vs. gossip Hi Eters, I agree, to some degree, with most of the posts on the "private lives" topic. I also agree, to some degree, with Toby's "is this really any of your business?" observation (or words to that effect). Let me explain. Knowing something about the artist as a human being adds some degree of context to his work. Maybe it's the music that matters most, but it is enriching to know that Beethoven was stone cold deaf when he wrote the late string quartets and the Ninth Symphony. It is enriching to know that Mahler had to conduct to earn a living and could compose only on holidays, many of which he spent hiking in the Alps. It is enriching to know that Hendrix couldn't read a note of music and played a right-handed strung guitar left-handed and upside down. It is enriching to read Fripp's writing about the vicissitudes of KC, including the creative and personal tensions among its members while digesting the most recent Collector's Club Release. Where Toby is dead right is where we seek personal, embarassing or private details which are not intended for public consumption. Perhaps I am the only ET reader who would prefer that not every detail of my own (dull) private life not be held up for public examination. There may be other present or past members of KC who feel the same way. It is common courtesy to respect their privacy. That being said, there is a tremendous amount of public information available about the band and its various members. Besides Sid Smith's book, Fripp has written voluminous liner notes to regular, Club and Box Set releases which are very informative. If I am not mistaken the other current and many past members have their own webb sites with a wealth of personal/biographical information. I particularly like Tony Levin's site where he has posted his speech to graduating music majors at the Rochester (or is it Eastman, I can't remember), School of Music. Mr. Fripp, and other band members on occasion, have chosen to share some of their personal thoughts with us via on-line diaries. There really is a lot of information available about these people which they have willingly published for public consumption. This information helps put their work in context and helps humanize them as artists without intruding into areas the members would prefer to keep private. Surf the Webb and find this stuff. It's fun, interesting and is fully sanctioned by the parties in question. But let's not scandalize or embarass these people whose work we follow so closely with sleazy or unsubstantiated gossip. Enjoy the '03 US tour, those of you lucky enough to have KC play your home towns. It looks like Phoenix will be out of luck just like our friends across the Pond are seemingly every tour. John Moshier. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 02:31:02 +0000 From: "alexis rondeau" Subject: Top 5 selection Since the year 2002 is well over and the Gramys are approching and all I thought I would complete my top 5 album selection for last year. I remember doing the same thing a year ago and the discussions that folowed led me to discover some stuff... 1- Peter Gabriel - Up This one is pretty obvious. This might well be my favorite Peter so far (though it's a tough call). Not quite as jolly as Us! 2- Ani DiFranco - So Much Shouting /So Much Laughter The little folk signer with the attitude is back with a 6 piece band and an energic double live album. It's been a long long time since there's been so much action on one of hers! 3- Peter Gabriel - The Long Walk Home The music from the Rabbit-Proof Fence. Wow! This is perhaps the best "world music" album since, let's see... Passion? Also it's fun to hear a lot of self references to music that appears on Ovo or Up! 4- Tabla Beat Science - Live in San Francisco at Stern Groove Featuring Bill Laswell among others. This is middle-east ethnic groove meets eastern fusion electro rock at it's best! It really grooves that much. 5- John Paul Jones - The Thunderthief Who else can go from punk rock to amusing folk tune and yet retain a feeling of unity on an album? And I used to think he was the no name guy in Led Zep... I was so wrong! That was it. I realise I haven't discoverd to much new stuff last year mostly due to the fact that all my long time favorites have released albums, so that left me with very little spare cash for exploration... Unfortunate. And interestingly, my only real discovery in 2002 is Drums and Tuba (rock-funk), and now I hear that Adrian Belew is gona play with them! While I'm at it I will add that my favorites concerts have been: 1- Medeski Martin and Wood with some special guests including Trilok Gurtu. This was one HUGE jam with the best improvised funk-jazz-groove ever. Much more energic and advanturous than their latest album... 2- Peter Gabriel. Stadium concerts can't be any better. Also I thought the Blind Boys of Alabama were so funcky! May King Crimson find their way on next year's selection! Alx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:54:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Edgar Kausel E." Subject: Listening to 21CSB Hi all: Today I received the 21st CSB "Official bootleg". It's really wonderful, despite the lack of mellotron. The obvious hero is Mel Collins, but -as I've posted several times in ET- the Giles brothers in the rythm section are outstanding. Especially Peter, an underrated bassist. His bass lines in "A man, a city" are extraordinary (and he plays it like 32 yrs. ago). Eddie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:52:06 -0200 From: "Diego Navarro" Subject: Dinosaurs >You'll really have to change the name of your band. I think you'll find >Dinosaur's been used. There is this Sebadoh-ish band called Dinosaur Jr. Nothing stops you from grabbing Dinosaur Senior. I guess it's the kind of tongue-in-cheekishness Lou Barlow would approve of. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:09:57 -0800 From: "Eric Heinitz" Subject: CD Flaws I share Mike Dickson's experience in ET 1088 that DGM discs account for most of the defective discs in my collection. Out of about 2,000 discs, 5 have known skipping problems and 4 are from DGM: KCCC 1, 4, 15, Under Heavy Construction. The other a Grateful Dead Dick's Pick, the replacement of which also skipped in the exact same place. After having spoken with tech support for Meridian, the CD player manufacturer, and having replaced KCCC 4 with a new copy which also skipped, the culprit appears to be in the manufacturing of the discs. My solution has been to minimize skipping with a disc treatment like Optrix, and burn copies from a less sensitive CD player, not unlike Mike's resorting to a computer to play his discs. As all of these are live shows, quality has probably not suffered, but statistically, DGM has a poor record in this regard. I wasn't even going to say anything, chalking it up to the sensitivity of a high end CD player, but if an ET staffer can't even get playable discs, the situation needs some attention. Toodles, Eric Heinitz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 17:01:43 +0000 From: "Spear man" Subject: KC possible opening acts I for one would love to see MUSHROOM open for KC--if not the whole tour then in San Francisco at least. http://www.innerspacerecords.com/mushroom/bio.htm you might have seen 'em on the 2nd stage at this past year's YES concert at shoreline amphitheatre. --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:18:16 -0500 From: Dan Cooper Subject: Scratched CDs/Personal lives of musicians 1. On the topic of scratched CDs, my question is: have I missed something? I rarely have a problem with scratches causing a CD to become unplayable, or even causing skips, if I do one simple thing: keep the CD in it's jewel case when not in use. This seems like an overly simple solution, yet one that will lead to a long and healthy life for the little plastic discs. 2. This invasion of privacy thread seems a tad silly to me, but I'll bite. I think there are two "classes" of celebrity - those who seek out attention and notoriety and those who reluctantly become celebrities due to their talent. Jennifer Lopez, Brad Pitt, Britney Spears, etc. are members of the former class, and most "non-pop" musicians and certain character actors and such (including our good friends in KC) fall into the latter class. Jlo seeks out - I dare say CRAVES - the attention surrounding her engagement to Ben Affleck and must deal with the attendant consequences (paparazzi invasions, gossip column tidbits, etc.); I doubt seriously that Robert Fripp wants us to know anything about his life aside from what he reveals in his web diary. And we should respect that. My 4 cents worth (2 cents per topic). Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:33:49 -0600 From: James Mills Subject: atlanta tix Skip Ticketmaster for atlanta show. Tix have been on sale since Saturday at variety-playhouse.com service charge is only 2.50 per ticket will call only . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 17:47:28 -0600 From: "Loren Claypool" Subject: Pollstar >Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:34:52 -0600 >From: "D Jacobson" >Subject: King Crimson Chicago >I expected advance warning. No info at king-crimson.com >Tickets went on sale today for KC at Park West March 14 and 15. >Any info on other dates? Please respond to ET, not directly to me. I've become a big fan of www.pollstar.com. I use their notification service. Although the warning was still short, the full schedule is there. Great service. Loren ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:16:15 EST From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: Wyatt + Eno You might be interested in a radio documentary recently broadcast on BBC Radio2 about Brian Eno. It was called "A Quantity of Stuff" and can be heard on www.bbc.co.uk/radio2. The Fripp was only mentioned twice in passing but it was quite interesting and showcased a new Eno tune. There has also been a tv documentary on Robert Wyatt called "Free Will and Testament". Details can be found by accessing www.bbc.co.uk and typing "Robert Wyatt" into the search box. It has been shown on the digital tv channel BBC4 at least twice and, as digital tv channels seem to rotate the same half dozen programmes, I'm sure it will appear again. Further to comments on CD quality; obviously there are some duff pressings but generally if your cds skip its gonna be the player. I've got 5 cd players and if a cd doesn't play on one it plays on another. I work as a dj and the cds I use for work are dropped on the floor, stepped on, have drink spilled on them and occasionally get driven over but unless the disc cracks I can just wipe them over and they play again. Gordon Taylor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 00:55:26 +0000 From: "Spear man" Subject: Re: CD dURability/the red book >I think the only aspect to discuss is CDs' SOFTWARE bugs - like those in >HC2, Deja VROOOM etc. Otherwise we'll soon be talking about The Red Book >instead of Red if you meant 'enhanced' CDs as in HC2 then possibly the blue book..... --spearman np fayman & fripp a temple in the clouds ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:57:30 -0500 From: "DENNIS DONEGAN" Subject: scratchd cd,s Try using some plain old toothpaste. Possibly the mildest abrasive you can purchase. Just any regular brand will do. Water it down a bit. Works well on mild scratches. --- DENNIS DONEGAN --- dennispca at earthlink dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:01:51 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?B?Um9j7W8gU+FuY2hleg==?= Subject: When is Mexico???? the dates for the Crimson tour is perfect... but.. when is Crimson in Mexico City...?????? Home sweet Mexico!!!!!!!!!!! Rocio. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 08:38:43 +0100 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Re: Vicious circle (or is that virtuous?) >- The Power to Beleive II is a meddley of "Vicious Circle" (on Level >Five) and of "Sho Ga Nai" (on Happy) You can actually hear the bell sounds of Shoganai at some point in the Level Five version of Virtuous Circle. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 08:42:03 +0100 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Re: Questions >Is (LTIA IV) live in the studio or is it just me? This LTIAIV is the Nashville live version found on Club 19. Not even remixed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 08:52:47 +0100 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Re: The final word on scratched CD's >typical teenagers inevitably DO >scratch and even break their CDs. And when that happens, the (evil) >record industry expects them to go out and buy a replacement. Were you not actually speaking of cars? And of the (evil) industry in general? But whenever he scratches his CD, the 'typical teenager' knows where to download a copy... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:33:48 -0000 From: "Alan Gent" Subject: Private Lives Re Dan Wasser's post on the above. I suspect this extreme "interest" in people's lives must be an American thing - Is that why you are all set to bomb Iraq? Alan www.alangent.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:39:23 -0000 From: "Alan Gent" Subject: Crimson Ticket prices Dark Star quotes 40 dollars for a KC tour ticket - #25 in proper money then. Well, if KC do tour (and come to Manchester, England), then that's my hoped for top end price. In comparison, it seems a good bet compared to Radiohead for $37. (Where are they now?) Might this ticket price be related to the massive market in downloading of KC material? Just looked on WinMX to find whole albums with massive queues of people waiting to download them. The revenue loss to KC must be significant. Don't you guys buy ANY of KCs albums? Alan www.alangent.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 03:40:55 -0800 (PST) From: Russ Bellinger Subject: Steve & Bill - Thanks Guys! Russ Bellinger Dunedin, Florida To the guys that wrote to correct me about Bill B. playing on the Genesis Revisited CD - Thanks guys, it slipped my mind! For some reason I kept thinking that it was Chester Thompson on drums - thanks for refreshing me. It is a phenominal CD also. But my POINT was that the Gordian Knot CD is really worth checking out. Anybody else have a listen yet? - Russ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:25:52 -0000 From: "Backham, Clive" Subject: Teenagers breaking things In ET #1090, John Spannaus pointed out that: "typical teenagers inevitably DO scratch and even break their CDs. And when that happens, the (evil) record industry expects them to go out and buy a replacement." Teenagers also crash cars. Nobody expects Ford to replace them for free. Learning that breaking things has negative consequences is part of growing up. Record companies (and car manufacturers) should not be expected to subsidise the process. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:56:25 -0500 From: Mark Axelson Subject: Private Lives and a Life in Art 'Morning, Listers. Longtime listener, first time caller. I have been following the threads concerning the private lives of band with some interest (ET Post of the Year award to the parody). I am always amazed by the intense desire to delve so deeply into the lives of artists. Honestly, I could not care less and actually work to avoid information of this sort. I find it impedes upon MY right to interpret the art as I see fit. After all, the job of the artist is to evoke an emotional response and to tell the "truth" as he sees it. It is my job- my priveledge- as a paying audience member to interpret the work free of any projection, including the artists. This is not to say that I do not enjoy experiencing the creative process. I enjoy seeing play rehearsals. I love reading early drafts of written art. I am quite appreciative of the fact that Crim is one of those bands that will give us a peek into that process via KCCC releases and EPs like HWWYHTBHW. These releases allow me to more closely examine the evolution of a given work. Evolution and process are not the same as inspiration and private life detail. Why should I want to know the details of the life of the artist? Artists are driven by inspiration, inspiration comes from life experience. The more I know of that life experience- the more aware I am of what drove the artist, the less I am allowed my own interpretation of the music- the interpretation which is my right and which is the POINT of experiencing art in the first place. On a side note, I actually despise artists who are hell bent on telling me what drove them to create something. I loathe being pummeled with "artists intent". I have no desire to see another Oliver Stone film. No need to hear another eminem song. How DARE an artist tell me what and how to think of a work? I feel that once the piece goes out into the world and is put before "that great beast with 200 eyes and 2000 teeth", the artist reliquishes ownership of that piece. It now belongs to the audience for whom it was intended- it is now theirs to judge, mold and interpret. My 50 mile each way commute (thank whatever gods for the iPod) I get some serious time to think. Recently, I have been musing on WHY Crimson has so much of my musical attention. What the hell is it about this music that has kept me glued for 15 years? I think the answer to that is this: in a world of cookie cutter bands and hard defined genres, KC is... different. Sure, we can attempt to define the type of music that they play, and then they throw a curve ball and force us to rethink our definition. The music changes and grows- more importantly, like Hamlet or the Guernica or the Goldberg Variations, our perception and understanding of the work grows and evolves with us- as we do. Crim is, to me, an evolutionary artistic force. They shock me, lull me, irritate me, elevate me, scatter and refocus me. From tCotCK to HWWYHTBHW, there is an INCREDIBLE amount of musical ground covered- something to fit my every whim. It has been said that there ARE no more original ideas. No more original songs. Well, I am thinking that the guy who said that hasn't spent much time with his Crim. On another side note, I want to thank the list contributors for some truly interesting and generally enlightening reading material. Oh- Gentlemen of the Band? Thanks for the music. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1091 *********************************