Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1085 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1085 Wednesday, 29 January 2003 Today's Topics: the "industry" (snicker) New King Crimson Discussion Group McDonald & Giles / Ladies of the Road The state of the industry Irish fans/the industry Re: Private Lives live365 stations Power to Believe release date Re: Using KingCrim in school projects Some interesting points about the Music Industry... Crimson's extensive tour? Re: Forgotten Irish Crimson Fans :( Durable Cds? poetry alone Primus Crimson Tool BB in Rolling Stone Crimson before and after work. the Bears live Re: The League Of Gentlemen / God Save The King New Belew/Carey/Claypool project ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 00:35:00 EST From: OTotor0 at aol dot com Subject: the "industry" (snicker) >So here's my challenge to the readers of ET and the fans of King Crimson: >"How would YOU run the music industry in the 21st century?" > >Remember, you can't just "give it away."=A0 There are people that help that >need to be paid.=A0 For example; >The artists who write the music. >The musicians who perform the music. >The studio people who record, mix and polish the recordings. >The artists who create the nice packaging with their artwork. >The marketing/sales people who let you know the music is out there. >The distribution people who make the recordings available to you. >The accountants who keep track of the expenses. >The business managers who keep everything running smoothly. if i may, as a 1/3 owner of a tiny record label, provide my (slanted) take on this question: at any given time on any given day i am at least one if not ALL of the people on this list. for us, the answer is (if i may borrow a phrase) to remain a small, mobile, intelligent (and very tired :) unit. stay ethically motivated. let artists retain their masters. do not expect to make much money. do not be upset if an artist leaves to go for the money. do realise that majors don't care about you and even dislike you a little. go to bed smiling- music is the best. dgm/kccc are/were serious moral touchstones for how to do this stuff well. every good independently released record that becomes even a touch popular is a thorn in the side of uni/emi/wea/seagrams/whomever. d.i.y., people. -thom soriano (if you feel alone head to http//www.futureofmusic.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:19:47 +0100 (CET) From: Anonymous Subject: New King Crimson Discussion Group Well there is a new Discussion Group where you can bring your own Robert Fripp records http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FraKctured/ I hope that this group isnt going to turn into a vehicle for the sale of Bootlegs. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:07:52 -0600 From: "John Spannaus" Subject: McDonald & Giles / Ladies of the Road I got the McDonald & Giles album around Christmas, and I don't think I ever really commented on it.. It's GREAT.. If there are any fans of early Crimson that simply never had the interest to check it out, DO IT.. It's really a beautiful album.. Peter Sinfield contributes his wonderful (as always) lyrics and Steve Winwood (among others) contributes to the music. It's not nearly as heavy as "In the Court" or "In the Wake", and not nearly as. uh.. British as Giles,Giles,& Fripp.. But it is clearly a progression of each.. The album is great from the first listen, and it only grows on you from there.. go buy it, right now.. As for Ladies of the Road (which I got shortly after), it's a good album and worth the money.. BUT I think as a "sampler" of KCCC, they should've placed sound quality as a higher priority in their selections.. KCCC has some really great sounding releases, and I don't think Ladies really goes out of its way to prove that, as some of the track are only "okay"-"good" quality-wise.. ..But then again.. who am *i* to be subjective? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:44:43 -0500 From: Tim Subject: The state of the industry > PPPPS. Tim (tfoster6272 at comcast dot net)... Whatever you say, Timmy, my > boy. Hey John-happily I am glad to say that I agree with your music industry assessment whole-heartedly! Well spoken! I think you're dead on with everything you said. I always sided on the "downloading is bad" with the artists in mind, but you're absolutely right in the record company bringing it on themselves. Watch some "American Idol" to see just how "product" oriented the whole industry is (not that I've ever watched :-) ), it is rather discouraging. Just think how many classic artists would have never come to life with the current criteria in place for signing up talent. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:35:45 +1100 (EST) From: Will Dayble Subject: Irish fans/the industry I'm another young Krim fan who hasn't yet had the pleasure of seeing them play live... I've just got out of school and I actually plan to travel all the way over to England June-ish to see what's going around - does anyone know how I could get some info of what's going on around then? As for the recording industry... I agree with the poster who said that it's stupid to adhere to the old model, it's crap and it really will be nice to see it crumble. It is actually quite possible for small indipendant ventures to make it work for themselves if they wish to make money, and I hate to say it to all you money-grabbing types making music for free is actually a LOT more interesting than making it for a profit. ===== Will Dayble. ------------<| Official nerd, ninja ----<| And all round idiot. ----<| www.innocentcabbage.com -<| - What's on at your local cinema? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 02:26:05 -0500 From: David Vella Subject: Re: Private Lives In ET #1084, Dave asks: > Just wondering if you know anything about private lives of KC members? > There's almost nothing in Smith's book on that topic. I'd like to know if > they have any children, where they live etc. The only thing I know is > that Toyah has been Fripp's wife since 86 and I don't think if he had any > woman before that. Is there any source of information about that? Obviously, Dave has never seen "The Young Stalker's Guide to King Crimson", by Mr. Sid Jones. This wonderful publication has all the important data the young, earnest, bespectacled, bearded, shadowy underworld figure could ever hope for. It's all there, names, addresses, phone numbers of former girl-friends, addresses of their kids' schools and their bus routes, teacher's names, credit card numbers, copies of old FBI files from the J Edgar Hoover days (with lots of lines blacked out), floor plans of their homes, the locations of the timers on the security systems, you name it! And pictures! Don't you believe those pervasive rumors that Fripp never had a woman before Toyah. No Sir! This book has all the dirt - pictures that would make Rodney Toady blush. Pictures that would make Tony Levin sprout hair. Pictures of a city's worth of eager young groupies who feared tomorrow they'd be crying. Some of those groupies were wired. And Mr. Jones has got the transcripts, and wrote them with poisoned pen. Here's an excerpt: "...Oooh, Mr. Fripp!" Here's another, which accompanied a very intimate flesh photo taken with a zoom club lens: "what happened, Bobby?" "I don't know... I felt as if, as if... some energy vampire had stolen this performance... as if ... I had been photographed..." When Hendrix read this book, he said to Fripp "Let me shake your hand- your LEFT hand - who knows where your right hand has been." He died soon thereafter... When Pete Townshend saw it, he said: "Uncanny! A Masterpiece" "I've paid good money for pictures not nearly as good as these. This will be great for my research!" This wonderful source has all kinds of behind-the-scenes information about the band's musical development as well: * Why didn't Keith Tippett stay on as their keyboard player? After a particularly wild party one night, he found the next day he could only play the right hand parts. That's right - he got the one-hand clap, and his family wasn't very happy. * The REAL reason Gordon Haskell left after one album? This book discloses for the first time the transcript of a phone conversation where a very angry Fripp was heard to yell at his manager "...I SAID, Gordon Lightfoot! That's LIGHTFOOT, you imbecile!" * Ever wonder how it is possible that Bruford could keep time like a machine? He's bionic. His arm-bones have been replaced by metronome parts. He has a chip in his brain which is tuned to the atomic clock kept in the vaults at the bureau of standards and measurement. But some engineer with a sense of humor put in an extra capacitor at just the right place to have a chaotic effect. The charge slowly builds on the capacitor, then... wham! The sparks fly and he hits something on the off-beat where nobody could possibly have imagined or anticipated. Don't believe me? I read it in the Young Stalker's Guide. Besides, the title of one of his albums is "Apart, and Yet A Part". C'mon, that's a dead giveaway! And don't think that valuable information like this was obtained easily or without risk. There was one incident when Mr. Jones was trying to eavesdrop on a recording session while gathering data for his book. There he was, precariously perched upon a ladder outside the studio window. He was discovered by a very angry Greg Lake. An altercation ensued, and, well, Lake was unavailable for the remainder of the session. Studio time, being expensive, inspired our fearless leader to call in a replacement (see above note about Gordon Lightfoot...). The whole incident was immortalized in some of Sinfield's lyrics for Indoor Games: '...you and Jones got madder, broken bones, broken ladder, Hey Ho!' And you thought Sinfield's lyrics were overly ornate and pretentious! C'mon! How matter-of-fact can you get? At this point, it became clear that the band was being stalked. It became too much for some of them. Lake left, figuring (correctly) that nobody would stalk him anymore if he joined Lake & Palmer. McDonald thought (correctly) "hmmm... maybe nobody will recognize me if I act like a Foreigner..." Giles left, too, and in his case, it was many years before Progress was made. The tenacious Fripp stayed, however, and decided to fight off all the stalkers, tapers, critics, bootleggers, music industry types, photographers, groupies, fans, that the three fates could throw at him. He tried to just fade away, and radiate. First he started sitting down at gigs, then he decided to hire Belew as a frontman to deflect the attention from himself. Then he hired more people, double duos and double trios, and FraKtured the band into "projects" so that the King resembled more the secret cells of a Bolshevik plot than an actual band. He learned from Eno how to play less. He walked off stage during shows that were photographed. He refused to sign autographs or play any of his hits. He got married. None of these ploys have worked. The more inaccessible, inscrutable, irascible, and irritating he became (these are words with an i this time), the harder the stalkers tried to track him down. So before you go out looking to download this book, before you go out looking to locate the wives and kids of the players or otherwise intrude upon the quiet lives of the crimsos, seeking what they do for Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream, remember what Fripp said in a recent interview when asked what would happen if any of these stalkers were actually caught. He said: "Prison is an expectation." -The Yellow Jester, Minister of Disinformation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 06:53:42 -0500 From: "Chris Deming" Subject: live365 stations >I was wondering what other stations at Live365 might be recommended by the >readers of this fine newsletter? I program a progressive rock station on Live365. It's called "Remember The Future". The station page is http://www.live365.com/stations/247336 . It streams at a low bit rate, so although the sound quality is quite thin, anyone with at least a 28K dial-up Internet connection should be able to listen. I play all sorts of progressive rock, including King Crimson and related bands. This page lists most of the bands played on the station: http://pages.cthome.net/beatfreq/playlist2.html thraks a lot, Chris (Now playing on RTF: "Animal Waves" - Can) Remember The Future - Progressive Rock Radio at 28K http://pages.cthome.net/beatfreq/remember.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:22:51 -0500 (EST) From: Gabor Rudolf Subject: Power to Believe release date In ET#1083 someone was asking for the official release date; The Sanctuary website( www.sanctuaryrecordsgroup.com ) has some information on TPB; the release date given there is March 4, 2003. -- Gabor Rudolf RUTCOR-Rutgers University ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:50:06 -0500 From: Brian Preston Subject: Re: Using KingCrim in school projects Along these lines: For a Communications course in college (in the '80's) I used Lark's Tongues in Aspic as an example of 'integrity in music'. It seems very naive and somewhat pretentious now but as a 20 year old who was playing Crimson in bands at the time, I thought it made a very pointed contrast to the early 80's radio fodder. I brought a tape player and had LTiA playing in the background. The other kids had no idea what the f I was all about! My prof was also the faculty adviser for the college radio station for which I was a DJ. This was the conservative Reagan era so you can imagine the types of feedback I got playing heavy Crim, Yes, UK, as well as (should I admit?) Ozzy's first album. The lyrics as poetry is a workable idea. Go for it! >So in my poetry class i have to recite 5 works. I can do a couple writings >from songs . . . I once used the lyrics to 'In the Wake of Poseidon' in a compare/contrast exercise with T. S. Eliot's 'The Waste Land'. I was a senior in high school and... On the other hand, I would think that Zappa's "What's the Ugliest Part of your Body" and "I'm the Slime" stand on their own as well, not to mention "Trouble Every Day." Mike Oh my, examples from Frank's writing could go on for a long long time! On this note, I am planning to go see Project Object who is touring here soon. Any comments? ************************************************************************ Brian Preston/Metaphoric Music Productions Smokin'Granny http://meta4ik.home.mindspring.com/smokingranny http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/smokingranny2 (sound files) Krimson News Radio http://www.live365.com/stations/crim75 (SG in rotation) Onomata http://www.umbrellarecordings.com/feature.html Groove Stream Attractor http://hometown.aol.com/tjohn62124/groovestreamattractor.html http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue20/groove01.html ******** ******** ******** ******** "When people are coupled together through musicking, each steers his or her own raft of subjectivity into the collective sea of neurodynamics." William Benzon in 'Beethoven's Anvil: Music in Mind & Culture' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 07:13:21 -0800 (PST) From: B K Partridge Subject: Some interesting points about the Music Industry... are made by Courtney Love in this salon.com interview. Might be of interest to those who have not already seen and/or read it. http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/index.html Cheers! The Wombat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:50:37 -0000 From: "Manek Dubash" Subject: Crimson's extensive tour? >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:17:45 -0600 >From: "John Spannaus" >Subject: Pat and Terry ... >On a sidenote, Pat mentioned that the Crimson US tour will be "very" >extensive, and they might even get down into Texas during the second >leg (Good news for us Southerners!). Texas? This is called 'extensive'? What about the UK, where it all started? Manek ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:21:42 -0800 From: Roman Kantor Subject: Re: Forgotten Irish Crimson Fans :( > Is there any chance they'll ever play here?!? Not as far as I know, they hopefully will play in GB in support of tPtB though. (last time I had to go to Prague to see them - but I am Czech...) Roman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:57:26 -0500 From: "Brown, Ken (Totowa)" Subject: Durable Cds? John Spannus wrote: It's ridiculous.. It costs mere pennies (less?) to produce a CD and the cheap plastic case it comes in.. And on top of it all, this $20 cd scratches and breaks very, very easily.. Hell, most of the albums that I've downloaded, I DID buy once and the cd got scratched. I'm not going to fork out another $20 bucks to replace it.. and also I went through about 3 Dark Side of the moons before I finally gave up and downloaded a digital copy.. John, man, I can not be the only one who needs to know, what do you do to your cds? Of all the thousands of cds I have had over the years, I can only think of a few that stop working and that was because of scratches that took the coating off the top of the cd. I have never, ever broken a cd, nor heard of anyone who as. So what do you do to your cds? And since you treated them so harsh, do what the audiophiles do with their precious LPs, make a copy of it. Then you can always make another when you break the cd. Keep the Faith (in the Music) Ken PS Not for nothing guys, but all you who have gotten the new cd in advance, really should wait until it comes out before posting your thoughts. Maybe, just maybe some of us would like to be surprised by it. (can't believe I am only one with this thought either) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:03:18 +0100 From: Alfredo Odriozola Subject: poetry alone Bruce wrote: So in my poetry class i have to recite 5 works. I can do a couple writings from songs. Since i love Sinfield's stuff i'm considering moonchild, in the court, and epitaph... are there any other prog songs that paint excellent pictures or display great ideas that can be used in my poetry class? i'm thinking the soft machine is too adolescent, lyrically- when there are lyrics... yes is too confusing for my classmates... greg lake is not the greatest lyricist... and so on and so forth... any suggestions? ~Bruce And the answer is: Peter Hammill, of course!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:55:09 +0100 From: Svante Pettersson Subject: Primus Crimson Tool From the totalrock.com news letter, Monday, Jan 27: TOOL-CRIMSON HOOK UP Tool drummer Danny Carey has teamed up with King Crimson guitarist Adrian Belew and Primus bassist Les Claypool in a new project. So far, though, no further details on the project have been released. /Svante ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:25:52 -0600 From: "Marc Gonzalez" Subject: BB in Rolling Stone In the latest issue of Rolling Stone magazine there is a review of the reissues of the 1st 4 Yes albums. In this article they have 2 pictures of Bill Bruford (with a mullet!). They refer to Bill as being a hip jazz drummer. Who knew?? Marc Gonzalez IS Customer Service Ochsner Foundation Clinic 504.842.7881 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:05:19 -0000 From: "DAVID TATE" Subject: Crimson before and after work. Having owned and played 'Happy etc'. 'Ladies of the road' and 'Champaign-Urbana sessions', for a week or so. I feel able to say that I really love em! 'Ladies of the road' is so well constructed and enjoyable that the two bizarre cut-offs, though a rather poor idea, don't mar it significantly. 'Happy to be happy' is very pleasing to experience and is better each play.I know there will be nothing to complain about with 'Power to believe'. 'Champaign' like all the KCCC discs is a must. I am rather hoping that the 73 Arlington Texas show will be released later. I once owned a bootleg of part of it which had a very amusing conversation between Bob and the audience in response to a shouted request to 'get on down'. It also had a version of 'Tight scrummy' which I didn't hear again until almost twenty years later on disc 2 of the 'Great Deceiver' Glasgow Apollo. I have just finished reading the article in 'Classic (Prog) Rock Magazine' on the release of 'Ladies of the road'. I read the thing from cover to cover before tackling the Crimso article which was like a breath of fresh air.(the article is cut out and the mags in the bin.) Crimso were and always will be Giants so far above the heads of their peers that it is pointless trying to compare them. I am sure Robert Fripp is a spiritual seeker and yet one who already possesses innate knowledge of himself and therefore others. For this reason he has always striven to push the envelope of possibilities. I think some of us do know that music is one of the few things that can exist on the mortal plane and has the potential to release us into a higher awareness and Robert in Crimso has always sought this. When the vibe is right even mediocre players can achieve miracles, but no one in all the Crimso line-ups has ever been mediocre, far from it. They might sometimes have been angry or tired, but that's different and in any case they still gave a good effort for us. I am very glad that I have access to this splendid musical journey past and future. What a great achievement King Crimson is and how fortunate people are to be part of it. In the last 30 years I have known very few people who even know of them let alone appreciate them. Happy New Year all. D . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:52:43 -0600 From: "Jonathon Smith" Subject: the Bears live I guess I'll blow my own horn for a second. I have a review of the Bears live record in the new issue of Paste Magazine. For the uninitiated, Paste covers what would roughly be considered Americana, although they will embrace just quality stuff in rap, R&B and rock. The magazine should be available at all Borders, and I think maybe even Barnes and Noble now. [I haven't got a copy of the magazine yet to know if they really chopped the review up. My fiancee got it and said it reads like something I wrote, so I guess that's good.] Jonathon "God works in a mysterious way-- The Church can sleep and feed at once." --T.S. Eliot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:43:23 -0600 From: Craig Subject: Re: The League Of Gentlemen / God Save The King >Actually, the vinyl version was simply titled "Robert Fripp - The League >Of Gentlemen" (with this absolutely wonderful pink cover) Courtesy of Danielle Dax (then of the Lemon Kittens w/ Karl Blake.... If you don`t know them, you need to!! All their stuff is weirdly wonderful)) ....She`s doing a vocal on one track, as well. >and has a lot of things which are not on the CD edition. >The title piece God Save The King is "The Zero Of The Signified" with a >Fripp solo overdubbed throughout. Ahhh, I see! Thanks for all this calrification, Laurent!!! (I`ve never cross-checked `em) ~C ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:13:01 -0800 (PST) From: rone at ennui dot org (circadian rhyme) Subject: New Belew/Carey/Claypool project Found on (via ): 1.19.03 Today Danny heads for the Bay Area to begin a new recording project with Adrian Belew, (of King Crimson) and Les Claypool (of Primus). I can't wait to hear this one! rone ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1085 *********************************