Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1080 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1080 Monday, 20 January 2003 Today's Topics: Happy to believe in the power of a new wheel Re: Santuary Records RF in a trio Setting the record straight about 'The power to believe' (kind-of) Bruford and time Faggots, Brains, Dipper Ride and so on.. Do you need the power to believe in the belief of the power to believe? CDs for sale Kazaa / Brains Re: ITCOTCK in NYC Re. Toyah and RF in Weekend faggots Club 21 Review Sylvian/Fripp-not a trio Moan about Moaning LofG lp League of Gentlemen Old school vs new school Flaming Lips ramble on... GIG REVIEW: Tony Levin in Schenectady, NY ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:03:55 +0100 From: "Frits Jurriens" Subject: Happy to believe in the power of a new wheel I'm one of the lucky ones with an -advance copy- of TPTB. Yes, it's true, lot's of tracks are not 'new'. But that's not new to us crimheads. If you haven't heard level five and/or nashville 2001 than it's all new material! I like the album now, after listening to it about 5 times. Yes, we have a new wheel. We already had a few, but it's quite a good wheel. Round and everything. So, I guess it's OK. I can't wait however for the -ProjeKct P- wheel, recorded during the rehearsals and recording of TPTB. Who says "hey man !!" ? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:36:26 -0500 From: "Chris Holderfield" Subject: Re: Santuary Records >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:07:01 -0800 >From: Christopher Anderson >Subject: Sanctuary Records >It would seem to me that Sanctuary Records had better comply >with the requests of Mr. Fripp in the future........ What, I must have missed something...What's going on? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:45:31 -0600 From: "Robert Rucker" Subject: RF in a trio dileep bagnall: "Does anyone know of examples where Uncle Bobby sounds comfortable as part of a trio?" I know I'm not going to be the only person to point this out, but _Red_ is a terrific example. --Robert Wayne Rucker ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 01:01:24 -0800 From: dude at zongarecords dot com Subject: Setting the record straight about 'The power to believe' (kind-of) This is my reaction to John Spannaus's post in newsletter#1075: I also got a copy of the new album, and I'm sure many people have. Why do you feel the urge to shout it out proudly just like you did ? Surely you've obtain your copy illegally, just like I did, so why don't you just be quiet and discreet about it. (At this point I would like to let the band and KC representatives know that I intend to actually BUY the album when it's released, and that the purpose of my post is NOT to encourage the aquisition of unauthorized material.) But your 'review' is so full of errors that I feel I must react. First of all you don't seem to have the 'real' album (that's why I assume your source is not an authorized one). What you describe as 'Facts of life' is in fact 'The power to believe II'; what you call 'Power to believe II' is in fact 'Facts of life (intro)', and it seems that your 'Facts of life (intro)' is in fact 'Facts of life' itself ! Secondly, I strongly disagree when you say: "Eyes wide open plays exactly like the Happy version." and "Level five is pretty similar to the live track.". Are you sure you're listening to the 'real' Power to believe album? Although they are the same songs, on my "copy" they appear to be really different in arrangement and feelings. And finally, a last quote from you: "And while you're anxiously waiting for it, try to remember that you've already heard about half of it (assuming you own Nashville) and, most likely, the other half isn't going to totally rock your socks off.." What are you talking about ? Who are you to make such subjective comments on an album that you got the chance to listen to before many of us? I hate the 'patronized' tone of your remarks here. I might be wrong, but it seems to me like you're saying: 'Allright suckers, I heard the new album and you didn't, but don't make a big deal out of it, it's not that good anyway !'. I, for one, am particulary impressed and fulfilled with 'the other half' of the new album as you call it. My opinion is that 'Power to believe' is an incredibly good and successful album (artistically speaking), and that it's way way better than TCOL was (and I like TCOL). But that's MY opinion, and I would have liked to keep it to myself until the official release of the album. But your post unfortunately obliged me to do so early, just to tell the readers of ET that they don't have to take your 'review' for granted. My saying is: 'Wait for the final version of the album to go out (what makes you think you and I heard the 'final mix' of it? For all we know we could have obtain a Beta version of the record.) and THEN you can tell what you think of it. Sorry if I sound upset, but I needed to do it. Respectfully, dude. PS: By the way, regarding Sergio's recent post, 'The power to believe II' is absolutely not 'The deception of the trush' ! The only thing closer to DOTT on the new album is TPTB IV, which sound a little like the first part of DOTT. I'm surprised the moderator allowed such a false post appear in ET's newsletter. I think all those wrong assemptions will deserve the band and the new album in the first place. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 12:30:26 -0500 From: Tim Subject: Bruford and time > Subject: Re: ProduKction (of TCOL) > >> Any drummer can keep time! > > Throughout his career, Bruford has proven that this is not necessarily so. I believe Bruford was proving that a drummer doesn't HAVE to keep time (i.e., that shouldn't be a drummer's sole function). I'm perfectly confident that he COULD keep time as well as anyone if he chose. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:10:10 -0000 From: "Mike Dennis" Subject: Faggots, Brains, Dipper Ride and so on.. Hi Having dealt with the faggots, battery farming, Craig now asks about 'dipper ride' and it sets me thinking we are coming up against the old American English versus English English problem once again. Just in passing, interesting how much of KC lyrics in the past are so English; and how you don't get questions from the UK about cultural references in the more recent KC lyrics. Are we in the UK more assimilated to USA culture, or do those of you in the US not come across UK stuff that often so it is harder to get to grips with? I know, this has little to do with KC but seeing as we have gone down the route of Brains Faggots... And if you disgusted by the idea of eating Faggots, well some people eat brains (not sold by Brains either - I don't think!) Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:08:18 -0500 From: "Chris Holderfield" Subject: Do you need the power to believe in the belief of the power to believe? I've listened to the new album a couple of times through now, and I have to admit it is a fairly good album. If I were to give it a star rating, it would have to be 4 out of 5. I'll give a sorta "rundown" of the track listing and what I thought of the individual songs: 1. The Power to Believe I: A Cappella (:44) The vocals are distorted, but not in the same way as on the "Happy EP". I like the lyrics, but like someone has already posted, they were "recycled" from an earlier song by Belew. But still good lyrics, nonetheless. 2. Level Five (7:14) This is the first time I've ever heard this one, so I can't really compare it to any earlier versions. But I do enjoy it. 3. Eyes Wide Open (4:11) Album slows down a little after track 2. Not too much difference between this and the "acoustic version" on the EP. I was thinking (along w/ probably a lot of others) that this may be a really "electrified" version. It still has more guitars and drums, but pretty quiet for a KC song. 4. Elektrik (7:59) If I'm not mistaken, I believe this was also an earlier track done by KC, but again, I've never heard it. This one starts off slowly, then builds some momentum, and it rocks! 5. The Power to Believe II (7:43) I think someone mentioned this before, but at first it sounds like "The Deception of the Thrush". But it starts to change form later. Not one of my favs., but still a listenable track. 6. Facts of Life: Intro (1:38) An OK track, and an OK intro, but not a fav. 7. Facts of Life (5:05) Pretty good song, but not the best. But I still enjoy this song. 8. Dangerous Curves (6:42) Starts off very quietly, and then builds in sound and speed. I like this one, but I think it lasts a little too long. 9. Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With (3:16) Not much different from the EP version, except for a couple of production "tweaks". The only reason it's a little shorter is because after the first "We're gonna need to have a chorus" lyrics, it cuts straight to the "and for a second verse". I've always loved this track, so it's a fav. 10. The Power to Believe III (4:09) Repeats the same lyrics from Part I. This is a good track, and a fav. from the album. 11. The Power to Believe IV: Coda (2:29) A great conclusion to the song and album. Total Running Time: 51 minutes (approx.) The cool thing about this album is that you can hear parts and themes that you heard in improvs and some other songs that they used during the "construKction" process. I don't mean that it's EXACTLY the same, but there are some basic themes that are used not just around a song, but during just a part of the song. (if that makes sense). I probably would have rated this album 4 1/2 stars - 5, but I didn't like the idea of having Level Five and Elektrik, earlier tracks, on the new album, and about the recycling of lyrics from "Power Part I". But besides that, I suggest buying this album. I plan on buying it (I burned it from the internet) when it releases, because of three reasons; 1) it feels like i'm "stealing" from KC; 2) I like the artwork on the cover; 3) for the slightly better sound quality (the version I have has a decent sound quality). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:58:14 -0000 From: "David HUDSON" Subject: CDs for sale I am selling 2 CDs: King Crimson - Heaven and Earth Adrian Belew - The Guitar as Orchestra Both in excellent condition and yours for 7 pounds including postage and packing (UK only) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:13:38 -0600 From: "John Spannaus" Subject: Kazaa / Brains >If you dont have it, go to kazaa.com to >download it. Its a relatively small program.I am currently downloading a >juicy 90 meg 1974 video clip of Larks Tongue in Aspic part 1 and i must say >the quality is superb Use caution when downloading this type of program.. It is filled with Spyware and other junk that can slow down your computer and eventually cause a lot of problems for yourself.. I suggest using mIRC (mirc.com).. You might even have better luck in finding what you need, and there won't be any detrimental side-effects! PS. "Mr. Brains" providing "health-food faggots" for dinner? Damn, I'm glad I'm not British! .and now for something completely different. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 18:37:55 +0800 From: Tim Donovan Subject: Re: ITCOTCK in NYC i used that table to put my sampler on when we played there last year. small world eh? i live in williamsburg, brooklyn and yeah the polish girls are lovely. >Made the trek from my rural apartment in Romeo, MI to Manhattan for the New >Year's Eve Gogol Bordello show at New York City's Knitting Factory. Before >the band (Gypsy punk cabaret!) came on, I escorted my coquettish yet >voluble young Polish date to the bottom level for talk about Chopin, Polish >cinema, and Eastern European politics. Imagine my delight at finding one >of the tables exquisitely and colorfully "inlaid' with the cover of KC's >first album. The Knitting Factory, despite its limited space, is quite a >popular venue. Any other Elephant Talkers notice this little subterranean >tabletop? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:31:48 -0500 From: "Richard G. Bunker, Jr." Subject: Re. Toyah and RF in Weekend For those interested, the article is online at http://www.femail.co.uk/pages/standard/article.html?in_article_id=112396&in_page_id=112 -- Rick Bunker rick at bunker dot com 215-669-4714 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:18:44 +0000 From: "lawrence moseley" Subject: faggots Let's clarify all this. Faggots was not written by Pete Sinfield (it's Palmer-James' fault, er, composition...). ;) Though the idea of Brains' Faggots might seem disgusting; they might actually be disgusting to those not inured to these things, but do please note they are the human equivalent to catfood. Lawrence ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:35:10 EST From: AlanWildeJr at cs dot com Subject: Club 21 Review This is one of the best club releases ever. This is the missing 1983 album!! Some of the ideas resurface on Three of a Perfect Pair as Dig Me and Larks Tongues in Aspic part III but I don't care. This is great!!! I don't think anyone ever gives Adrian enough credit for what he has done for this band. There is some really inventive stuff here. I can't wait for Dust to be released!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 04:44:32 +0000 From: "Peter Shindler" Subject: Sylvian/Fripp-not a trio This is to correct the earlier post by someone. When Sylvian & Fripp toured, Michael Brook played guitar with them too. He was mostly left out of the mix on "Damage," but there he is in the credits. And don't forget that Sylvian himself also played guitar and/or keyboard on some songs. Incidentally, fans of Fripp's Soundscapes should certainly check Brook out. His solo albums "Hybrid," "Cobalt Blue," and "Live at the Aquarium," as well as his various Real World collaborations with the late Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, U Srinivas, and Djivan Gasparian, are all heartily recommended. He also appears on several tracks on Russell Mills' great "Undark/Umbra" album. He's like The Edge with a graduate degree in ethnomusicology. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:33:25 +0000 From: David Crossen Subject: Moan about Moaning Dear All, I believe that one of the great aspects of King Crimson in recent years has been the way in which the creative process of the band has been opened up to us. We had the VROOOM EP before THRAK, the ProjeKcts before TCOL and now Level 5 and the Happy EP before The Power To Believe. This is a process that many bands would be reluctant to display to the public, that is, if they have any process to speak of. Does this make us happy? Are we grateful for such insight? No instead we get a steady stream of posts complaining that the forthcoming release contains nothing new. Oh well, back to the old ProzaKc, David Crossen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 10:19:12 -0500 From: Michael Bennett Subject: LofG lp Does anyone have a copy of Fripp and the League of Gentlemen album God Save the King on vinyl that they would like to copy to cassette or cd for me? I have the cd and cassette versions, but have heard that all three are different from one another. I can tell a couple of differences in the two I have. Thanks. illoman at att dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:49:25 -0800 From: stgor at apricorn dot com (Steven Gordon) Subject: League of Gentlemen Which would you recommend, God Save the King or Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx? Is TTG still available? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 14:08:31 EST From: Johnakni at aol dot com Subject: Old school vs new school Flaming Lips Flaming Lips have been mentioned here lately on Elephant Talk,but with no real connection to King Crimson. So I wanted point out that the song Charlie Manson Blues on the Flaming Lips second album Here Tis has an ending not unlike that of 21st Century Schizoid Man. I had first discovered The Flaming Lips in 1988 by reading a review of them in People magazine. I recommend all their early albums up to but not including Priest Driven Ambulance. Back in the day,the Flaming Lips were one of the few band exploring guitar riffs and brand new guitar noisy fx in the era between King Crimsons. My personal favorite is the album Telepathic Surgery,although all my friends hate it. Inevitably,the Flaming Lips sold out,watered down their sound significantly,eventually completely getting rid of all the electric guitars and FX. Their new album even gets rid of the drums so there is just a drum machine. I admit I haven't heard all of their later stuff,for I fear being traumatized. It was bad enough being bombarded over and over by She Don't Use Jelly.Zaireeka looks good on paper,but this was done after their BEST BY date,so I am still boycotting it. The last Flaming Lips thing I saw was on Austin City Limits with them serving as Beck's back up band. Their playing was violently bland. Kind reminded me of that Roches album where Fripp,Levin,and Bruford served as their backup band but played so boringly as to almost be muzak. Let this be a reminder to Adrian's antiFans: he was a catalyst more than anything that forced these guys to sound good. Last I heard,the Flaming Lips are to be Steve of Blues Clues backup band as well. I still read all the Flaming Lips' interviews since they always have something interesting to say. But I am not interested in hearing a band whose whole concert is prerecorded with dancing bunny rabbits. Luckily,that never happened to King Crimson. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:37:23 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Miller Subject: ramble on... After TOAPP was released I sort of lost interest in what was happening with the band. One day in a Best Buy Store in Kennesaw, Georgia I saw The Great Deceiver, but didn't buy it because I didn't have the money. I couldn't get it off my mind, so I found the money and returned about a week later to pick it up. At the time I had a power amp rated 200 watts RMS per channel running a pair of DCM Time Windows. I slid in CD One, cranked it up too far for my own good and when LTIA, Part Two exploded in my ears, I actually cried. I'd forgotten how much I missed that band. In spite of this, I continued to remain fairly detached. VROOOM, THRAK and TCOL all appeared as pleasant surprises in either the same Best Buy or in the Media Play across the street. While I love the music, I also love the memory of being delightfully surprised upon finding the CDs. After TCOL I became a regular visitor to the diaries, DGM, ET and Krimson-News. Consequently the existence of the Happy EP was known well in advance of its release and eagerly anticipated. There was no element of surprise. The same holds for the upcoming TPTB. I'm not sure this is necessarily a good thing for me. This is interesting in light of some of the comments about the lack of "new" material on TPTB. Anyone paying attention to how Mr. Fripp works shouldn't have expected anything "new". With the release of such CDs as the stunning Club 19, we have been given a window to the creative process. We can't have it both ways. We can't expect to simultaneously see where they're going and be surprised when they arrive. If you don't want to know, don't look. With the release of the many live versions of LTIA, Part Two I have concentrated on these and have not listened to the original studio version for some time. Just last night I played it at volume. I had previously failed to notice the earthy sexiness of the original studio version. It really is gorgeous. Most of the time I listen to CDs but I also have everything, except Discipline, damn it, through TOAPP, on vinyl. Today, on headphones, I listened to Side 1 of ITCOTCK. This turned out to be absolutely to die for. I am indeed a fortunate man to have a nice turntable, pre-amp and headphones. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:04:15 -0500 From: "Jim Loman" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Tony Levin in Schenectady, NY I saw Tony and his band last night at a small club in snowbound upstate NY. His band features Peter Gabriel mates Jerry Marotta & Larry Fast. He opened the set with Crimson's "Sleepless" and closed with "Elephant Talk". Other tunes included Peter Gunn Theme, Ooze, Apollo, Tequila. For an encore he did Utopia. Overall a pretty good show that I'd recommend for any Crimhead. Tony hung out afterwards and signed autographs, chatted people up and seems like one hell of a nice guy. He also didn't flip out when one audient took his picture with (gasp) flash photography. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1080 *********************************