Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #108 D I S C I P L I N E The INTERNET newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 108, Thursday, 23 September 1993 Today's Topics: A new name for us Input for Discipline- THANKS!!!!!!!!! Re: Discipline #107 comments Discipline #107 RE:Easy Money time signature (none) Re: latest Discipline Doubts about Belew Easy Money Drumming on 'Sleepless' Adrian Belew tour info. "new standard tuning" David Cross album?/Mel Collins/ Milli Vanilli? USA Sylvian & Fripp info. Another Crimhead/Guitarist [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] A new name for us Hi everyone. Never one to avoid a hot potato, here goes. "Discipline" is going to change its name. Why? Well, for a few reasons. First, I chose it out of desparation in 1991, and I've never liked it. I've always intended finding a better name. I've had mail from a number of you suggesting we find a better name. Second, Robert Fripp recently suggested to me that it is an unsuitable name too. His point is that while "Discipline" accurately describes _his_ work, and is the name of _his_ record label, and a KC album, it does not reflect the identity of _us_, the people who make this mailing list work. This is true: here we discuss many other artists other than Fripp, and lots of other issues too. In that respect, Discipline is a silly, meaningless name. Finally, there has been some hassle with people confusing "Discipline" the Internet newsletter with "Discipline" the record label. This is a pain and I want to avoid it. I have even had snail mail letters from people thinking I run the record label! From a purely administrivial point of view I need to stop this confusion. So, we are to have a new name. But what? I don't want to decide -- _we_ should decide. Please send suggestions and we'll see what happens. Toby PS And please, _no flames_ -- You all know what a nice guy I am :-) [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 10:53:28 PDT From: "jay kuhn, cxo3-2/j4, dtn 592-4608" Subject: Input for Discipline- THANKS!!!!!!!!! Reply to "Chris King" >Are there any other Subwoofer Showpieces that people would suggest? How about Ladies of the Road from Islands (heck, it's loud without a subwoofer!) Or (maybe) Epitaph off of their second album Wake of P. I think it has a cool drum sound. And also Sailor's tale and the first song off Islands. Enjoy! BTW, Does anyone know if the Caroline reissues are good remastering jobs? Does Islands sound better? My copy has some horrible tape noises at the end of the first song. Thanks Toby for doing Discipline. it's Great. [ Thanks Jay -- Toby ] Jay Kuhn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 11:07:31 PDT From: charly at hal dot com (Charly Rhoades) Subject: Re: Discipline #107 comments > Are there any other Subwoofer Showpieces that people would suggest? Many people (audiophiles, especially) use a digital recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, near the end when the guns report. Non-musical, perhaps, but a strenuous workout for your equipment. When I was purchasing speakers years back I used a piece that I was more familiar with to guage potential purchases. It was "Gravity's Angel" from Laurie Anderson's _Mr._Heartbreak_. In the beginning of this song there are swirling synthesizer sweep up and down, and in one particularly menacing point a very low ominous tone bottoms out -- it really gives an almost palpable eeriness. Anyways, that's an idea. (I have to break out that recording, now. It's been a while.... ObDiscplineNote: Belew does a fine job of playing in two or three tracks, especially "Sharkey's Day.") > But i think there's enough interest that a separate Eno list is a good > idea. Anybody wanna do it? (Dave Craig, maybe? :-) An Eno list was recently started. To subscribe, send email to: Eno-L-Request at udlapvms dot pue dot udlap dot mx [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 11:21:56 -0700 From: rpeck at pure dot com (Ray Peck) Subject: Discipline #107 > Marotta vs. Bruford -- From the playing on this album, it seems that > Marotta is a solid drummer who keeps a steady beat. The grooves laid down > are fine, but they are too "unchanging" for my liking. I have to agree with John's comments. It's pretty good, but some of the tracks do go on and on w/o changing. And the drumming is too static. I also miss the SNAP! of Levin's stick playing (on this and SAOTW). I hope Trey sticks more to the tenor range in the new KC, where he seems to be more appropriate. > Has anybody out in Disciplineland heard the Robert Fripp _Soundscape_ OREO? > Is it good quality? Worth $25? Who plays? Is it with Sylvian or the > Quintet? Waiting to hear from you. I have this disk. It's from the same show as the video Robert has been selling at the Quintet shows (my instance of which has terrible sound due to duplication problems). Soundscape may be my favorite Fripp CD. It's truely excellent. Very well done package (photo booklet, picture disk), and the sound, while not *perfectly* mixed, is terrific. Not quite as crisp as, say, "Show of Hands", but close enough. Recommended (sorry, Robert: I *would* rather buy it from you. If you were selling the video, why not a CD, too?). Oh, also, Soundscape has more tracks than the official video. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 20:03:36 -0400 (EDT) From: MCGLINCJ at bcvms dot bc dot edu Subject: RE:Easy Money time signature Just a few thoughts on the last verse of Easy Money: From what I can remember (and this is by no means infallible, since I dan't have Larks' Tongues in Aspic on CD y), I always ought that the last verse is pretty much the same as the other verses, except that there is that strange syncopation of notes at the end. The verses are in 7/8 (or 7/4? That always confused me) basi but what makes the verse sound really odd is that that rush of notes at the end of each phrase comes in half-way through the fifth beat (not on the fifth beat or the sixth beat, but HALFWAY through the fifth). Crimso always pulls off that left-field stuff-that's why I love the group! Another great example of odd accentuation in a Crimso song is "Frame by Frame", where I think Bill Bruford holds the second beat in each bar by a fraction of a second to give it a neat "hiccup" like sound. Joe McGlinchey Boston College [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1993 14:21:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "dave." Subject: Re: latest Discipline A couple of people mentioned to possible creation or existence of a Brian Eno list. In fact, someone started such a list about a month ago. The address to subscribe is ENO-L-REQUEST at UDLAPVMS dot PUE dot UDLAP dot MX. The list has been pretty slow most of the time, with brief spurts of activity. However, getting a complete list of Eno's Oblique Strategies was worth the subscription alone! One more warning: apparently the sysadmin of the machine was not too intelligent, and kept sending messages to "all users", which included the listserver! So for a brief period we were all getting Spanish messages explaining how to use a floppy drive on the new SPARC workstations they got, and equally interesting things. Quite amusing. OFC: Well, as for The First Day, let me say that while I agree with the criticism that the rhythms and chord progs are very static and that "Darshan" was just way too long given its musical content, I don't think that necessarily makes it inferior music. KC it ain't, but I like to view this as an update of Fripp's version of Ambient Music. Even with the very static nature of the songs, I think most of them are worthy of the time they're given; the exception to this is "Darshan" -- a total of 17:17, and I think half that would have been plenty. My basic point here is that I don't really see that heavy repetition necessarily makes a song bad. --dave [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: phv at equalizer dot cray dot com (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Doubts about Belew Date: Fri, 17 Sep 93 10:39:16 PDT > >The fact that Adrian didn't show up at the Crimson jam session (according to > >Trey Gunn) makes me continue to wonder if Adrian truly wants to be a part of > >the band > > >From what I understood, Adrian and Robert BOTH agreed that it was time for > some new Crimson after Adrian mentioned it to Robert. I was always under > the impression that Adrian was into it. We shall see... According to the October 1993 issue of Guitar Player, Adrian Belew auditioned for the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I'm *not* making this up! Paolo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 18 Sep 93 21:53:00 PST From: "Chris King" Subject: Easy Money Jay Kuhn mentioned the complexity of "Easy Money" in #107. In an interview with Guitar Player Magazine many years back, John Wetton mentioned that, for him, EZ Money was the most difficult Crimson song to play. This puzzled me initially, but it must have something to do with the difficulty of singing in one meter while playing in another. I wish I could remember exactly, but isn't the opening chant sung in 5/4 and the instruments are playing in straight four? Is there a John Wetton solo release out yet? Someone on this list I thought said something about a Fall '93 release.... --Chris King [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 20 Sep 93 14:12:55 EDT From: benson at ICD dot Teradyne dot COM (Henry Benson) Subject: Drumming on 'Sleepless' I remember reading an interview with Bruford where he said that he recorded a drum part, but it wasn't what the others wanted, so they sampled it and re-shuffled it to create the part you hear on the record. Bruford said he didn't really care; if that was what they wanted, it was fine with him. Henry [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: This Name's For You Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 11:40:41 EDT Subject: Adrian Belew tour info I called Adrian Belew's management co. yesterday and got the following information: (He is doing an acoustic tour; no King Crimson plans until 1994.) September 28th Ironhorse Northhampton, MA 30th Paradise Boston, MA October 1st Bottom Line NY, NY (early and late show) 2nd Ampitheatre of Living Arts Philadelphia, PA 6th Club Benet Fairville (?), NJ 7th Max's on Broadway Baltimore, MD 8th the Barns at Wolf Trap Vienna, VA 9th Graffiti's, Pittsburgh 11th Kilore's Cincinatti 13th Icon Buffalo 14th Milestones Rochester 15th Agora Cleveland 16th Majestic Theatre Detroit 18th Phoenix Hill Tavern Louisville 19th Vogue Indianapolis 21st Cubby Bear Chicago 22nd Shank Hall Milwaukee 24th Fine Line Minneapolis That's all the information I have. The # for more info. is (513) 871-1500. Feel free to post this information elsewhere. I also just read (or am reading, actually) in alt.fan.frank-zappa that an ad for the concert says "Adrian Belew, Extremely Unplugged, A Solo Performance of Guitar, Voice, & Conversation" I'd be interested in getting any high quality tapes of some of these shows if any body out there will be taping these. I know tickets for the Baltimore show have gone on sale (through ticketmaster) but are general admission ($13 or so, without the obnoxious service charge). Erik epb3r at virginia dot edu [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 11:34:19 EDT From: fischer at falcons dot ent dot ohiou dot edu (Chris Fischer ME) Subject: "new standard tuning" I keep hearing references to Fripp's "new standard tuning." What is the tuning? What are the claimed advantages? -Chris [[ To cut the traffic down, the tuning is CGDAEG, low to high. I'll leave it to others to comment on the advantages. It's a great way to break strings! -- Toby. ]] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 12:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: MCGLINCJ at bcvms dot bc dot edu Subject: David Cross album? Has anyone out there heard anything about there being a new David Cross album out? A friend of mine said that supposedly there was and that David was touring (he also supposedly played "Exiles", IMHO, one of the best Crimso songs of all time!). Rumor or Fact? And... Just wondering what people thought about Mel Collins being listed on the now notorious first Milli Vanilli album (yes --sigh-- my roommate DOES in fact own this "miracle piece of vinyl"!)? :):) Joe McGLinchey Boston College [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 14:31:38 -0400 From: javasque at entropy dot bph dot jhu dot edu (Jaime Vasquez) Subject: USA Sylvian & Fripp info. Hi, I called Sylvian's management people here in the US. There will be only four dates in the US: San Fran, La, Chigago and NYC. Since the first two are too far away I didn't bother asking exact data about them, sorry. O.K. here is what I got for the other two: Chicago, Oct. 31 The Parkwerst. General Admission (through Ticketmaster) New York, Nov. 2, Beacon Theater. Goes on sale 9/30 (Ticketmaster) The tickets for Chicago went on sale 9/4. Hope this helps you. ciao, Jaime. [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 01:19:24 EDT From: MIke Subject: Another Crimhead/Guitarist My Dear Friends, It is a pleasure to be among the ranks of those who have an advanced musical understanding. My name is Mike Pomerantz and I am a new subscriber to this charm ing little service, coming to you from Rhode Island, USA. I have been searching for a Fripp Crimson infonet for a long time, and it would appear that I have chosen a rather opportune time to join your ranks. I need updates, my friends. You are all far ahead of me on information about this band, and I would appre ciate if some philanthropic soul could update me on release dates for the upcoming KC LP. According to Rolling Stone of many months ago, I should have access to this album now. Believe me, Fripp/Sylvian is good, but I desire the real thing. I thank you for whatever help you can provide. By way of introduction, I have been an art rock (wretched term!) fan for some years, but during the last Fripp tour, I decided, on a whim, to go give 'Frippertronics' a try. What ended up happening that night was that I decided without a doubt that this was the best guitarist on the planet and that a good portion of my own playing should devote itself to a similar creative ecstasy. The idea of going beyond the accepted and expected sounds that the instrument makes continues to appeal to me more every day. The Soundscape boot is perhaps the finest piece of music in my extensive collection, and I will offer a musician's review in a future issue. As for the new King Crimson, drummers fear not!! Jerry Morotta has chops. previous work with Gabriel (esp. live) provides ample proof that the man can jam adequitely. Those of you who are looking for Discipline II, forget. Fripp does not look back. Period. This will be something totally new, and remember that Trey Gunn first accompanied Fripp as a guitarist in the League. We might see THREE guitars in the upcoming band!! Hopefully our patience will be repaid soon. -Mike [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.