Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1079 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1079 Sunday, 12 January 2003 Today's Topics: Re: live LTIA clip from kazaa Toyah and RF in Weekend Health Food Faggot Re: The Power To Believe is The Deception Of The Trush!!!!! ITCOTCK in NYC Re: Tony Levin Battery Farming Re: Fripp in trio format My Tull-Crimso post in ET1075 Flaming Lips Tony Levin and Flaming Lips Battery farms production Re: "I had Brains faggots for my dinner last night." Bill's Time (was: TCOL ProduKction) Virtuous Circle Re: The Power to Believe is the Deception of the Thrush Re: Lyrics Health Food Faggot Vs. The Black Pick ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:17:06 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: live LTIA clip from kazaa >If you dont have it, go to kazaa.com to >download it. Its a relatively small program.I am currently downloading a >juicy 90 meg 1974 video clip of Larks Tongue in Aspic part 1 and i must say >the quality is superb I've been on the search for old video clips, and I found the clip from Beat Club of LTIA, like everyone else seems to have found too. Is this the same clip? My clip is not good quality at all. I mean I guess it's better than I expected. Its not Heavy ConstruKction video clip quality, but its SOOO worth seeing. But is this the same clip as this '90 meg 1974' clip? are there ANY other clips pre-Discipline of KC performing live? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 01:51:43 -0000 From: "S.P. Goodman" Subject: Toyah and RF in Weekend Last week I noticed a Weekend from the Daily Mail in London, with Toyah Willcox on the cover. In the article she discusses intimate enough details for me to say "whazza...?" while reading it. Anyone else see this? What are the copyright rules about doing this after the shelf life is off, Toby? [ Technically copyright is copyright. In practice however... --Toby ] S.P. Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery - Cartoons and Illustrations! http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack - Cartoons via Medialine! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:26:08 -0600 From: Jon Buckley Subject: Health Food Faggot Obviously, these are not the Health Food Variety... but you get the idea. dabmim 's opinion on Mr Brains Pork Faggots written on 14.06.2002 dabmim's verdict on Mr Brains Pork Faggots Advantages: Tasty, easy, Disadvantages: Only four per pack Mr Brains are probably the longest established Faggot maker in the UK (if not the only ones)! So now that I am a dedicated eater of Meat faggots I feel I am now able to offer my opinion on this food item that you will probably either love or hate. Mr Brains faggots are made by Hibernia Brands Ltd, who has recently bought out the Sara Lee empire (so Im led top understand). ~~~ What are faggots? ~~~ Pork Faggots are a meatball, which is made up basically from Pork liver and onion. Mr Brains faggots add a few more things such as rusks, wheat flour etc, and soak them in a rich west country sauce, before freezing them for your convenience. ~~~ How do you cook them? ~~~ For best results you should cook from frozen, at the following temperatures and times: 230*c/ 450*f/Gas Mark 8 for 30 to 40 minutes: Alternatively, you can cook them in a microwave for around a total of about 13 minutes stirring half way. Though cooking by this method requires the placement of the faggots from their container to a microwave-able dish. ~~~ What to eat them with? ~~~ As they are served with gravy, we enjoy them with mashed potatoes and peas (just like it shows on the pack). However people tastes vary, so eat them with whatever you want chips (Ive just got into chips with gravy!), jackets whatever turns you on as to speak. ~~~ Are they fattening? ~~~ A highly important question if you are watching your weight, or need to eat healthily for health reasons. The faggots are high in fat (12.5g cooked), but for your information here are a few values: Calories 242: Carbohydrates 22.5g (sugars 4.3g): Saturated fat 5.9g: sodium 0.9g. All values are for the cooked version of the product and per 100g. ~~~ So what do they taste like? ~~~ These Pork faggots are rather Moorish, and although not addictive are excellent for a difference. The easiest way I can sum them up is that they taste a wee bit like Haggis. They are simply meatballs made with pigs liver and onion, and can be made at home (see recipe below). I am the sort of person who is typically British in their eating, with the occasional Chinese pancake roll or chow meinand these pork faggots suffice the requirements of my somewhat picky diet. ~~~ Overall ~~~ Mr Brains Pork Faggots are to be enjoyed, maybe not on a regular basis but nonetheless they are worthy of some praise. I believe faggots originate from Wales (please correct me if I am wrong), and served with mashed potato, peas and the rich West Country sauce it comes with and what more could you want? In favour of the faggots are taste, price, ease of cooking (just loosen the lid and bung in oven). Against- some of the faggots stick to the dish, not big enough pack for more than one person, the lids can be a little difficult to remove when hot. ~~~ Other information: ~~~ Mr Brains Pork faggots come in packs of four (I am not sure whether other sizes are available-but I have noit seen them if they are) and cost #1.39 per pack. At time of writing (13/6/02) Iceland have faggots on offer buy two packs for #2.00. They are made by Hibernia Brands ltd of Bristol. You can store in a freezer for up to 1 month in a two star freezer or follow the best by date for higher models. Alternatively you can store them for up to twelve hours in a fridge. The pack does warn that you should handle the container and lid carefully when cooked as they do get hot, and I can vouch for that. Ratings: Packaging 7/10 Product quality 9/10 Ease of cooking 9/10 Taste 9/10 Overall 9/10 from: http://www.ciao.co.uk/opinion_view.php/OpinionId/5280837/SortOrder/0/ sortedReverse/0/xid/0282c19a601f413f20f9a1e1045a2f4837 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 01:09:59 -0200 (GMT-02:00) From: Tiago Subject: Re: The Power To Believe is The Deception Of The Trush!!!!! Hi, > From what I heard on The Promo Copy (that belongs to a friend) of The > Power To Believe: Actually, the track The Power To Believe II, is in fact Virtuous Circle, plus some percussion duo like "Shoganai", the "haiku" that appears on The Power To Believe I: A Capella and on TPTB IV: Coda, and a solo by Fripp that reprises the theme Sylvian And Fripp's track Bringing Down The Light. On The Power To Believe III the opening movement from The Deception Of The Thrush appears, instead of lines from T.S. Elliot's Waste Land what we hear are the lines from The Power To Believe "haiku". The second movement from TDOTT (Fripp's Soundscapes and Trey's solo) doesn't appear. The whole album is great. All the songs work pretty well together. And more, the "OLD" songs like Level 5, Elektrik and Dangerous Curves, especially the last two, are really improved. Happy...is shorter on the album, Eyes Wide Open is very similar to the acoustic version, only longer and with more details. Facts Of Life: Intro is a short Soundscape with some heavy percussion at the end announcing, of course,...Facts Of Life...Beast, Beast, I say. To resume: All Killer...No Filler P@ really caught my attention on this album, he is a monster through the whole thing. And of course, the other three Crims are on the top of their game as well. I didn't make a copy of the Promo album from my friend and I'll not download it either. I'll buy for sure, as I do with ALL Crimson releases, the official "The Power To Believe"when it comes out. Best Wishes To All ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:44:50 -0500 From: Widmann Hoerauf Subject: ITCOTCK in NYC Made the trek from my rural apartment in Romeo, MI to Manhattan for the New Year's Eve Gogol Bordello show at New York City's Knitting Factory. Before the band (Gypsy punk cabaret!) came on, I escorted my coquettish yet voluble young Polish date to the bottom level for talk about Chopin, Polish cinema, and Eastern European politics. Imagine my delight at finding one of the tables exquisitely and colorfully "inlaid' with the cover of KC's first album. The Knitting Factory, despite its limited space, is quite a popular venue. Any other Elephant Talkers notice this little subterranean tabletop? Also wondered, pursuant to nothing, if any other Crimheads were diehard Polvo fans. Discuss. -woody np: Tom Waits Nighthawks at the Diner ne: eggs and sausage, and a side of toast, coffee and a roll, hash browns over easy... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:02:50 +0000 From: "Antonio Maria Correia" Subject: Re: Tony Levin in response to David Jackson: my personal take is that progressive rock (or nuovo metal, whichever suits you) is much the same as indie rock, as they are both alternative in their own "time". actually, its even a more alternative or indie posture to listen to prog oldies or KC than indie rock itself. well, here are some bands you might wanna check out: Pavement for me are the kings of indie, and Stephen Malkmus of course. There are also some heavier things like the Dillinger Escape Plan or the Flying Luttenbachers (or even Sleepytime Gorilla Museum). Anyways, i cant think of anything else now, so there you go. Antonio Maria Correia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:33:51 -0000 From: "Mike Dennis" Subject: Battery Farming Hi Glen Miller (great name) wonders what 'battery farming' is. It's intensive animal farming, keeping animals in very confined space to maximise the profits. Mostly with chickens for egg production, where the chicken is kept in a cage sometimes smaller than itself standing up. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:47:42 -0500 From: "GaryLewis" Subject: Re: Fripp in trio format Sunday All Over the World is an excellent example of Fripp's ability in a trio format (guitar, stick, drums). For me, I prefer this format to the double guitar format of the current KC. I enjoy the spaces of silence and the easily distinguished interplay between the players. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:16:14 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Miller Subject: My Tull-Crimso post in ET1075 Gentle Readers, I would like to formally rescind and deeply apologize for my shallow, asinine post in ET1075 comparing Tull to Crimso. In hindsight, this was poorly developed basement thinking, not much above the level of when my 5th grade friends and I used to argue about who was better -- The Dave Clark Five or the Beatles. Thank goodness I had the good fortune then to argue for the latter. Glenn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:16:23 -0600 (CST) From: A Subject: Flaming Lips I'm still waiting for my copy of "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots" to arrive in the mail... I think you can still listen to the whole album via streaming audio at their official website. Anyhow, I love the Flaming Lips. They started as kind of an acid-drenched indie rock band, but evolved with every release. They had a sleeper hit with 1994's single "She Don't Use Jelly" from their Transmissions from the Satellite Heart. After another studio album, they released their most ambitious project: "Zaireeka". A 4 CD set where all discs are meant to be listened to at the exact same time!!! I have it and it's definitely more of an experience than a recording... definitely recommended. "The Soft Bulletin" from 1999 is their masterpiece I think. It's an incredibly intrincate, well-produced pop album that is beautiful, contemplative and moving at the same time. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:25:24 -0600 From: Lee Gray Subject: Tony Levin and Flaming Lips > From: "David Jackson" > Subject: Tony Levin [...] > music, but if Tony Levin is intrested there must be some of you readers out > there who are too. Im sure that there are plenty of you that think the Lips > are crap, but there is more to them than the "Do You Realize" Video on MTV > and those IBM commercials. Some of their work is the most experimental, > creative, and well-produced music to come out recently. I'd love to hear TL with the Lips! They've long been one of my favorite bands, although I've been fairly disappointed in their last few releases - especially The Soft Bulletin - can't understand the raves over that one, in spite of its production. I do like Pink Robots better, at least. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:37:58 -0000 From: "Mike" Subject: Battery farms A battery farm is one where as many animals as possible are squeezed into the smallest space possible in order to make the most money possible without regard to the comfort or health of the animals involved. Hence the term battery hens. Also known as factory farming. See www.factoryfarming.com . Robert Fripp, being a vegetarian, would be well aware of the abuses involved in meat production. mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:59:45 -0500 From: rspeak Subject: production I may have been the one who started the recent Production thread in E.T. 1071, and I would like to follow up some of the replies. First, I do not really know who the producer Machine is, but he is mentioned in this link to an article from Billboard magazine. Its interesting (to me) that I had mentioned a Rob Zombie release has an example of a well-produced album. http://www.billboard.com/billboard/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id1 779209 Mirrored at http://www.soundspike.com/story/706 The group worked with producer Machine (White Zombie, Pitchshifter) on the set I had the opportunity to listen to the song Happy to be on my good stereo, and I like what Im hearing. I cannot wait for Power.. to be released. As for the eighties releases, I guess what is disappointing to me is that they were such a technologically advanced group, embracing state of the art musical equipment, ex. Roland guitar syths, Simmons drums, and Chapman Stick. Also, they were into the sounds, textures, and the nuances of the music, not just pure muscle. They were awesome live, truly the best live rock band at the time, and Discipline is my favorite KC album. However, I dont feel that the 80s albums captured the sonic potential of the band. Come on March 3rd!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:36:42 -0600 From: CRAIG Subject: Re: "I had Brains faggots for my dinner last night." >Craig said: > 'this topic recalls a lyric (written by King Fripp, IIRC), I do recall reading once that Fripp actually wrote the lyrics (or part of) to this song.... true? >from Krimson`s > tune "The Great Deceiver" on STARLESS & BIBLE BLACK... you know the > one... "Health food faggot with a bartered bride. Likes to comb his hair > with a dipper ride,..."... etc. ...What was *that* all about??? > (Certainly not the British slang for a cigarette) >>>>>A faggot is a type of British meatball served in gravy sauce. I see. >The best-known >brand is made by a company called Brains. You cannot be serious...? >I know this, because I had Brains faggots for my dinner last night. Ugh. That sounds utterly revolting. >And very nice they were too - I'd recommend them to anybody. "Anybody" who`s not vegetarian. Say, Pete Sinfield... (see his "Whole Food Boogie" from STILL) >Don't know what a health food version would taste like, though. Much better, no doubt...... Yes, the lyric makes little sense. "Health food faggot with a bartered bride, likes to comb his hair with a dipper ride". ................Huh? (What the hell`s a "dipper ride" !??????) ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:46:30 -0800 From: "Hoang Le" Subject: Bill's Time (was: TCOL ProduKction) DrBaht comments to: >>Any drummer can keep time! . as follows: >Throughout his career, Bruford has proven that this is not necessarily so. While partly true, this statement is reckless, unfounded and unfair. (What else to expect on a KC list?) Bruford is known to not make metronomic accuracy his top priority all of the time. Apparently it his not his main interest. However, his supreme mastery of time (my assertion) is evident mostly in those pieces where time is implied - induced into the brain (or tapping foot) of the listener, carried by punctuation, but never literally 'played'. Examples of such are Indiscipline (especially the live, suberbly developed, "Deja Vroom" (sp?) versions), the first track on B.L.U.E., and 'Trio' (being facetious here;-). For me personally, there isn't any drummer who has so influenced my experience and understanding of drumming (I'm not one) as Mr. B, except perhaps Jack DeJohnnette). I won't dissert further, but conclude by saying that my knee-jerk target peeve drummer to the 'keep time' challenge would have been Carl Palmer. (Careful with this thread: proposing a drummer-name-dropping non-proliferation act.) Yours truly, Nic ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:59:58 EST From: VincentDeBoule at aol dot com Subject: Virtuous Circle A question for those who have somehow heard the new album already... did parts of Virtuous Circle in any way make it into the instrumentals on Power to Believe? I was a bit disappointed that this wasn't carried over from the Level Five tour, as I considered it the most promising piece among the new Crimson material. Oh well, maybe they'll still perform it live, and it's not like the Level Five version wasn't good enough. I'd have been a lot more disappointed if, say, Level Five never got a proper studio version. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:53:01 -0600 From: "Brandon S." Subject: Re: The Power to Believe is the Deception of the Thrush I agree with the fellow who mentioned that the new KC album is primarily old material. I've recently heard a....shall we say, 'advance' copy? (i'm sure that the band is just thrilled to know that the music is circulating two months before the proper release!!) Even "The Facts of Life" is a good chunk of improvised themes that the group has been working on since the "Construkction of Light" era. I find that the tunes are much more realized, though, than in their "Nashville" and "Level 5" versions, particularly "Electrik" and "Dangerous Curves". It is dissapointing, however, that "Eyes Wide Open" and "Happy With...." are only very slightly different now (a few extra lyrics, drum parts etc.) All in all, it's NOT dissapointing music, and I think that with the proper marketing and publicity, that this album has the potential to do very well, sales-wise, BUT in the end it's up to the fans just how well the music does in that area. Money isn't everything, and I think that this will be a recording that all of us will keep in our CD players. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. BS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:03:14 -0600 From: "Brandon S." Subject: Re: Lyrics In a previous issue: >I have always thought this was a great song with great lyrics. (And a >great album too) It is very "psychedelic," in the lyrics as well as the >sound. I'm a little disappointed though, without hearing the album yet, >that Ade resorted to using recycled lyrics, however beautiful they may >be. >What do you think??? >Well dear mr termite, I think that anything to raise the lyrical >quality?from "I'm gonna have to write a chorus" is a very good thing. The lyrics is "Happy With...." remind me of a Beatles tune called "Good Morning, Good Morning" from......yes, 'Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band'. In this particular piece, John Lennon was frustrated, because time was running out, and he needed to write the lyrics to a new tune for their new album. Out of his frustration, he wrote such lines as "I've got nothing to say, but it's okay".....perhaps Mr. Belew was in a similar situation? I know that he wrote the lyrics to "Potato Pie" on a bit of a dead line. Then again, maybe it was just a joke that everyone is just looking too deeply into? ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:03:37 -0500 From: "HOLOGRAM" Subject: Health Food Faggot Vs. The Black Pick Rumor has it that the health food faggot line in the Great Deceiver is a counter point to a somewhat derogatory Peter Sinfield reference to Fripp. He refers to him as 'The Black Pick' in Envelopes of Yesterday. The song is from Peter's 1973 release Still, which also contains a song called Wholefood Boogie. (hence the health food faggot) Here is the verse: I love, I hate this rock and roll the ladies and the lights Ate all my flowers long ago but the roots came through all right. Whilst now my toast is the crossroads post, I hear just out of sight, That the Black Pick's found his Chaldean lamp After years in a concentration camp. But I fear he's still out on the ice With his bagpipe mouth and his cup of crimson speiss. Anyway, I love Fripp,but still like to call him the Black Pick,since it sounds cool. (and possibly appropriate) Lance ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1079 *********************************