Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1078 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1078 Saturday, 11 January 2003 Today's Topics: The Power To Believe is The Deception Of The Trush!!!!! How King Crimson Got it's name Fripp collaborator Tim Bowness (No-Man) - live review 'Health food faggot' King Crimson & the Blues TOAPP/The Noise DVD battery farming? Sanctuary Records Re: RF in a trio Re: ProduKction (of TCOL) Re: The power to believe in advance Re: The Power to Believe in advance & a couple other posts Re: RF in a trio Re: Health Food faggots, We Are family, Power to believe it all before... S&BB Re: Family Trees (ET1077) the things we do for money Tony Levin Fripp in trio format Oops! I Almost Belew My Whole Paycheck! ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 08:58:22 -0600 (CST) From: Sergio Subject: The Power To Believe is The Deception Of The Trush!!!!! Hey guys, I don't know if somebody posted this before, but I couldn't believe my ears when I first heard the TPTB album... All of the songs are OLD!! I had already heard ALL of the tracks, with the exception of "Facts Of Life"... And... my God... The most important track of the whole thing: "The Power To Believe Part II" is "The Deception Of The Trush". Anyway, chances are I will buy the album when it comes out on March 3rd, to see the P.J. Crook cover, oh no, the cover is already posted in the Discipline Global Mobile website... oh well, anyway I'll buy it. User ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:14:57 -0500 From: "mike" Subject: How King Crimson Got it's name I was surfing the web concerning how King Crimson got their name and came upon your faq section where it said that Sinfield came up with it as another name for beelzebub. I found that this is the explanation provided all over the web (e.g. general lists of bands and how they got their names) and it's even in a book I have about Crimson (In the Court of King Crimson) but I found this interview with Peter Sinfield where he denies this and provides a different explanation - here's the link for the interview. http://www.krimson-news.com/interviews/EpFyuykZk.shtml so I was wondering if Sinfield's incorrect or is the faq, book on crimson, and a thousand other web pages are incorrect. Do any of the original members of Crimson corroborate that King Crimson was originally a synonym for beelzebub? Just curious - Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:58:15 -0000 From: "Tiz @ evophonic" Subject: Fripp collaborator Tim Bowness (No-Man) - live review Evophonic (new site) has reviewed Night 2 of Burning Shed festival (Dec '02) http://www.geocities.com/evophonic/ (select 'night 2') - performers include King Crimson collaborators, example Tim Bowness - remember Robert Fripp's work with No-Man? Hugh Hopper (Soft Machine / Robert Wyatt) + Theo Travis (Gong) + Bernhard Wostheinrich (centrozoon) recently performed with Tim Bowness a 'new strain of freeform electronica'... Linked (near top of review) :- Evophonic exclusive photos : Bernhard Wostheinrich Markus Reuter (centrozoon) Latest Listens lists of : Tim Bowness (No-Man) Hugh Hopper (Soft Machine / Robert Wyatt) Theo Travis (Gong) Bernhard Wostheinrich (centrozoon) Markus Reuter (centrozoon) Highlights of the review relate to performances by : - Hugh Hopper | Theo Travis | Bernhard Wostheinrich | Tim Bowness Markus - Reuter performing with multi-instrumentalist Roger Eno Tim Bowness and - Peter Chilvers Evophonic site currently is migrating from its old location - some links are not yet working. Please be persistent if, in coming days, the site is engaged whilst I continue the migration... (UK-based, I generally don't engage the site at all, midnight till 9:00AM London time, as I'm sleeping!) We hope the pale-grey background makes comfortable reading (no more glaring white!) Tiz @ Evophonic site (think evolutionary sound!) http://www.geocities.com/evophonic/ select 'news' for latest EVO e-digest (or subscribe) *new* e-address : info at evophonic dot freeserve dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:35:27 -0000 From: Sandy Starr Subject: 'Health food faggot' Craig said: > 'this topic recalls a lyric (written by King Fripp, IIRC), from Krimson`s > tune "The Great Deceiver" on STARLESS & BIBLE BLACK... you know the > one... "Health food faggot with a bartered bride. Likes to comb his hair > with a dipper ride,..."... etc. ...What was *that* all about??? > (Certainly not the British slang for a ciggarette) A faggot is a type of British meatball served in gravy sauce. The best-known brand is made by a company called Brains. I know this, because I had Brains faggots for my dinner last night. And very nice they were too - I'd recommend them to anybody. Don't know what a health food version would taste like, though. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:18:11 -0800 From: "Jones, Aaron" Subject: King Crimson & the Blues Just wanted to say that I truly enjoy this second foray into the blues that the band has done on the "Happy" EP, 'Potato Pie'. I didn't like the first effort, 'ProzaKc Blues', very much. I still think it's the weakest track on TCOL. But 'Potato Pie' rocks! I find myself singing the lyrics all the time, and I have great anticipation for when Crimson next plays San Francisco or the Bay Area. Thanks again! Aaron Jones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:04:32 -0800 From: "Danny Stamper" Subject: TOAPP/The Noise DVD Why has there been no further mention of the status of the upcoming two on one DVD release "The Noise/Three of a Perfect Pair"? Is it still on? And while you're at it, how about a DVD from the "Construkction of Light/Level 5" tours? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 05:18:49 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Miller Subject: battery farming? I hate to be dense, but what the hell is a "battery farmer"? (See Fripp's Wednesday, 8 January 2003 diary entry.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 15:07:01 -0800 From: Christopher Anderson Subject: Sanctuary Records It would seem to me that Sanctuary Records had better comply with the requests of Mr. Fripp in the future........ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:19:01 EST From: DrBaht at aol dot com Subject: Re: RF in a trio >Does anyone know of examples where Uncle Bobby sounds comfortable as part >of a trio? David Sylvian -vocals, keyboards, guitar Robert Fripp -guitar Trey Gunn -stick The First Day Tour 1992 (Japan in March / Italy in June) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:21:21 EST From: DrBaht at aol dot com Subject: Re: ProduKction (of TCOL) >Any drummer can keep time! Throughout his career, Bruford has proven that this is not necessarily so. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 04:33:02 -0500 From: "adam davis" Subject: Re: The power to believe in advance For all of you who do download this album before its released retail, (and I know some of you will), Please buy a copy once it comes out. Crimson isn't a money making machine who doesn't need your support. Every album sale counts. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 04:40:39 -0500 From: "Matthew Dunlop" Subject: Re: The Power to Believe in advance & a couple other posts "Mats Carlsson" wrote: > Surfed arround on one of theese file sharing servers the other day and to > my big surprise I found KC - The power to believe. I downloaded the files > and yes, it was the unreleased new album. How on earth is this possible? > The issue about downloading mp3's is one question but my concern is about > the fact that an album by the most distuingished band in the world could > reach outside the studio a month before release? I hope someone at DGM > reads this. Quite often copies of an album will circulate before the actual release. A few members of this list have obtained such copies. It isn't a huge stretch that then someone would want to share their good fortune online. There have been quite a few high profile albums recently that have leaked, and the record industry has gone to unholy measures to stop this. With the latest Pearl Jam album, Sony released the cd's to critics in sealed Walkmans. What kept those critics from simply taking a sharp object to the case I don't know, and the move was generally laughed at by everyone. The truth is that the only reason bands or record companies should fear this practice is if the music contained in the cd is so sub-par that after a few listens nobody would buy the album (As in the latest Pearl Jam album :). King Crimson has nothing to fear... any of us who decide to hunt down the album early (I have not) will most definitely buy the official release for the much improved sound quality and packaging. TermiteAC at aol dot com wrote: > I have always thought this was a great song with great lyrics. (And a > great album too) It is very "psychedelic," in the lyrics as well as the > sound. I'm a little disappointed though, without hearing the album yet, > that Ade resorted to using recycled lyrics, however beautiful they may > be. > What do you think??? Well dear mr termite, I think that anything to raise the lyrical quality from "I'm gonna have to write a chorus" is a very good thing. "Mats Carlsson" >Does anyone know of examples where Uncle Bobby sounds comfortable as part >of a trio? I recently bought 'The Repercussions of Angelic Behaviour' and >he sounds stranded. Too much space to fill. And what of Robert's solo performances? Is he not required to "fill space" there also? I have not heard the Repercussions album but I was listening to KCCC17: P2 in Northampton just earlier and Mr Fripp sounds perfectly wonderful. My opinion is that he fills exactly as much space as he wants to. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:48:26 +0000 From: David Crossen Subject: Re: RF in a trio dileep bagnall wrote in et#1077 > > Does anyone know of examples where Uncle Bobby sounds comfortable as part > of a trio? I recently bought 'The Repercussions of Angelic Behaviour' and > he sounds stranded. Too much space to fill. A little piece called Trio from Starless and Bible Black springs immediately to mind. I'm sure that Robert Fripp (if it's he to whom you are referring) has realised that space does not of necessity need to be filled. This applies not just to music. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:31:08 +0000 From: "lawrence moseley" Subject: Re: Health Food faggots, We Are family, Power to believe it all before... Though Palmer-James wrote the lyric it still has to pass KC consensus so responsibility for all output must be Crimson's. I always understood 'health food faggot' to be a derogatory view of those who eat food that is supposedly good for you. And these people are insisitent upon the fact. Thus this lyric would be a resentment or expression of annoyance towards such people. Whatever it is typical of a lyrical standard which does not do justice to KC music. It's not outrageous enough, nor enigmatic to be interesting. Still, it could be alot worse. It's only nearly banal... >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:43:56 -0000 >From: "Mike Dennis" >Subject: Lyric Mistake on My Part! > >Hi > >I've just read my own posting regarding 'faggot' and as Biffy points out it >was Richard Palmer-James not Sinfield. Ah well, a sign of getting old! > >Mike You can always try the Pete Frame Rock family Tree Albums. An example of dedication and attention to detail (Anoraknophobia) that is truly mind boggling. How else does Yes get connected to the New York punk scene in the late 70s (via KC of course). > >Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 15:51:57 +0100 >From: "A.D." >Subject: We are family > > Dear E.T.ers, > > While talking about A.B./R.F. connections, Lawrence Moseley >mentioned that it was `nearly as bad as working out the Purple / >Rainbow/ Whitesnake / Ozzy/ Gary Moore / Thin Lizzy Family tree...'. > > Yes, I totally agree In fact, I have always thought that if you >added the Purple Family to the Kcrimson Family, you would find >yourself with the Entire British Hard Rock and Prog Universe. > > One day some expert on musical incest should try designing their >family trees Any volunteers ? > > Cheers, > > A.D., in medias res. Roots To Branches, Thrak and Page and Plant's Unledded. All this great stuff from '95. From the biggest names in rock. What an impact this had on the contemporary scene. As did Floyd's Division Bell. Did it not? Probably a bit much for some... oh well... I always thought that if KC were going to make any impact on the surface scene then Radiohead, REM and (serious) U2 fans might find the intrigues of Crimson to their taste. KC might be a bit heavy and complex for most though. (Me being pompous / arrogant, sorry!) Reminds me of U2 and REM fans in the 80s. Just enough (surface)complexity to make those not wanting to listen to Top 20 think they are into something progressive without having to suffer for somebody else's art. Couple of nice tunes there but... Alas the lasting impact of these names is all down to marketing is it not? Perhaps it was best that Crimson stay extremely cool by warming up for Tool and defining their own Universe. Power to Believe. Here's a thought. Is this album going to contain the warning label 'Beware contains previously released material'? I do not mean any dodgy downloads or promo releases. I mean the previews on the last 2 EPs. I can't help but feel I've already heard the album and that the magic of a new, fresh release is dissipated with letting the audience buy (album price) truncated versions of the new album. I'll still get it but I do have the feeling I've already heard it. Is this Fripp asking his audience 'Is this alright?'. 'How about this?) Is this advance prejudging? (tautology very deliberate...) Right happy to have a new year with what we have to be happy with... regards Lawrence ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:01:29 -0000 From: "amos.brailey" Subject: S&BB In reply to Steve Gordon about S&BB Much of the album was recorded live at the Amsterdam Concertgebouw on the 23rd November 1973. "Night Watch" "Trio" "Starless & Bible Black" and "Fracture" from this show appear on "Starless & Bible Black" L.P. The improv We'll Let You Know was recorded at the Glasgow Apollo on the 23rd October 1973 :)The Mincer was recorded on the 15th Nov 1973 at the Volkhaus, Zurich. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 13:56:07 -0000 From: Steve Moore Subject: Re: Family Trees (ET1077) Of course, Pete Frame did the definitive Purple/Rainbow etc AND Crimso family trees some years ago ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:50:17 -0000 From: "paul welsh" Subject: the things we do for money This one should amuse the europeans out there who remember eighties pop.As part of our professional duties my band has to regularly back artists like the the Drifters and Ricky Vallance (of "Tell Laura I Love Her" fame). Imagine the look on a Crim-head's face when Buck's Fizz turn up and we open the dots to find out that half of their hits, the better half, were written by Mr Sinfield! Hopefully next time they might have some music written by mr Fribble. Not sure I relish sight reading that though. Paul Welsh Butlins House Band Bognor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:25:08 -0600 From: "David Jackson" Subject: Tony Levin In the preivious issue of ET MattDunlop wrote that Tony Levin was being nominated for a Grammy. First of all thats awesome for him, he is definetly on my list of top 5 bassists of all time. What intrested me was that one of the cameos mentioned was for the new Flaming Lips album. I have been a fan of indie music for a while now, getting my experimental music fix in new music since the modern progressive rock scene is dry (I admit bands like Opeth and other Death Metal are good but its not my thing). I thought that I was the only progressive rock fan in the world that was into this kind of music, but if Tony Levin is intrested there must be some of you readers out there who are too. Im sure that there are plenty of you that think the Lips are crap, but there is more to them than the "Do You Realize" Video on MTV and those IBM commercials. Some of their work is the most experimental, creative, and well-produced music to come out recently. theres my two cents -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:55:32 -0500 From: "Thompson T. Terry Jr." Subject: Fripp in trio format Dileep (and all the rest of y'all): I have listened to "Repercussions" too. I find the sonic space well covered by Rieflin, Fripp, and Gunn. Is it the amount of sustain Fripp employs which you perhaps find inadequate given the range required? It may just be an issue of personal taste. Sonically Fripp and Gunn operate similarly when in the trio format of the Sylvian/Fripp "First Day" concerts, ca. 1992. In some ways it is quite stark and spare; I think it a good matching, but a mood dependent one. Very different from the "Red" era distortion wall-of-sound. be well, TTT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:13:02 -0500 From: "josh chasin" Subject: Oops! I Almost Belew My Whole Paycheck! In ET # 1077, Ryan Garrison announces the release of Belew's first three solo albums on CD. While I admit I've never heard the third one, Desire Caught By the Tail (I don't think), I bought Lone Rhino and Twang Bar King when they came out, loved them then, and still do. And since I seldom get to my vinyl anymore, the prospect of these great discs on CD is a welcome one. What was troubling, though-- and I hate to complain, but heck, it isn't as if no one ever complains here-- was that these two discs-- which together could have fit onto a single CD-- are priced at $22.95 a pop, with no filler or bonus tracks. Now, I will probably break down and get Lone Rhino at some point. I want to support Adrian, and I hate to begrudge an artist the fruits of his/her labors. But at the same time, this does seem quite pricey for releases that offer nothing new save for the fact of their availability on CD. I mean, people were complaining that the Level Five EP was $15 for and not even a whole album; that disc is longer than either of these. Still love you though, Ade. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1078 *********************************