Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1075 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1075 Sunday, 5 January 2003 Today's Topics: Re: Metal and prog... Re: Fripp encouters Who begets who: Enter Adrian stage (f)right Peter Gabriel's UP Vincent Gallo's Review fo TCOL Re: ProduKction ELP's 21CSM / Queen Crimson Re: Devil's Triangle/Mars Re: Peter Gabriel, Ticket Prices, and Progress Re: First Day outtakes Re: Lizards album, Fourth Wall Re: Correction? I Say Neigh, Sir! Flying Lizards Anagrams of "King Crimson" Re: Production I GOT THE NEW ALBUM, SUCKERS! Re: "Flakes" vocal Re: PG vs. KC Re: "Flakes" vocal Re: Subject: "Flakes" vocal Re: afield of Space Groove Re: slang / word play? ("The Great Deceiver" lyric) "Flakes" vocals, or how to get the right source! Re: "Flakes" vocal CGT's Christmas CD heroes Flakes vocal again Merry Kchristmas Fripp in a ball; valid criticism; what little common sense we had Re: Another Chorus... elephant talk Re: "Flakes" vocal Re: "Flakes" vocal KEITH TIPPETT - "Blueprint" Flawed Poseidon CD ? Progressive top ten larks' tongues part IV Early Crim videos ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:51:58 +1100 (EST) From: Will Dayble Subject: Re: Metal and prog... In regard to the ET post a couple of issues ago about Opeth and Mesh etc. HERE HERE!! :) Please don't forget the other people who are pushing the boundries set up by people like Meshuggah etc... Namely - Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects - Sol Niger Within. The guitarist from Meshuggah's solo project, it is quite, quite amazing - and honestly further up there on the progressive scale than anything I've heard from King Crimson. I know this is near blasphemous to say that on a Krim mailing list, but honestly - there is nothing else like this out there, I would SERIOUSLY suggest anybody who is into anything a tad chunky and odd to check this out. Also pushing the barrier of what the barrier-pushers are... well - pushing, is a hardcore band called 'The Dillinger Escape Plan'. They set new limits of 'frantic' with their Calculating Infinity release, and then just recently collaborated with Mike Patten to release a 4 track EP, which is just AWESOME. So. Heh. This was meant to just be a 3-4 line 'here here', but look what happened. But yes! Sol Niger, Dillinger Escape Plan. I've mentioned all this before at some point, but really - it's the prog of prog. :) ===== Will Dayble. ------------<| Official nerd, ninja ----<| And all round idiot. ----<| -<| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:39:27 -0500 From: "d." Subject: Re: Fripp encouters This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2A83D.FB108330 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2A83D.FB12F430" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2A83D.FB12F430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >We have heard many posts by people who have met / followed / spied on / >been blanked by Fripp, how about those of us who have actively IGNORED him >or treated him as a private individual. Does anyone have any non-event >Fripp encounters? =20 Way back when=85 circa 1979=85 in Montr=E9al =85 =20 I was at a radio station promotion stunt: People had to jump into a pool of Jell-O =A9 to get keys to win a car. Pretty stupid. Anyhow, at one point, someone announced that Robert Fripp had just arrived from the airport. (what for? I have no clue=85 promotion?) My friend Richard and I rushed to meet him, as no one else around seemed to care or know who he was. =20 He shook his Jell-O maculate hand with us asking =93want some Jell-O?=94 =20 He seemed to me like a very humorous and joyful person. probably is. =20 =AB J'prends de l'=E2ge... mais j'vieillis pas! =BB =20 Gilles Latulippe daniel gosselin dr_dagne at hotmail dot com =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2A83D.FB12F430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>We have heard many posts by people who =
have met / followed / spied on /
>been =
blanked by Fripp, how about those of us who have actively IGNORED =
>or =
treated him as a private individual. Does anyone have any =
>Fripp encounters?


Way back when… circa = 1979… in Montr=E9al …


I was at a radio station = promotion stunt: People had to jump into a pool of Jell-O =A9 to get keys to win a = car.

Pretty stupid.

Anyhow, at one point, someone = announced that Robert Fripp had just arrived from the airport.

(what for? I have no clue… promotion?)

My friend Richard and I rushed to = meet him, as no one else around seemed to care or know who he = was.


He shook his Jell-O maculate hand = with us asking “want some Jell-O?”


He seemed to me like a very = humorous and joyful person.

probably is.


___________________________________= ___________

=AB J'prends de = l'=E2ge... mais j'vieillis pas! =BB

     &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; Gilles Latulippe

daniel gosselin

dr_dagne at hotmail dot com


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+0000 From: "lawrence moseley" Subject: Who begets who: Enter Adrian stage (f)right Hi all, On the continuing subject of Adrian's beginning of his twenty plus year reign (more or less) as the voice of Crim... (I wonder what he thought about David Sylvian...? Hmmm pointless speculation I think...) I was reading in an autobiography of FZ that said FZ found Adrian gigging in a bar in Hawaii. Suitably impressed, FZ asks AB to become a Mother. (Or whatever... :D) Adrian accepts but said he would honour his contract with the bar he was playing before joining up with FZ and his cronies. Half an hour later he was on his way... No sorry, just joking... Apparently FZ was really impressed with ABs professionalism in contactual obligations. Anyway sometime in New York City a certain RF was musicking and had got acquainted with one David Bowie (c.1977/78) and Bowie knew this four-to-any-many stringer called Tony Levin. Session acquaintance. Who is also apparently a chum of AB's. Bowie needed an axeman for LPs and live work and asked RF (known from being mutually British and reasonably contemporary)who was duly acquainted with AB and RF played on DBs Heroes, AB toured and appeared on DB's Stage. They decided to form a band and thus history was reborn. Again. Then there was Talking Heads (David Byrne trying to sound like AB and everyone getting the wrong impression there...)who can also can tossed into that mix, not to mention Blondie (contemporaries of the Heads) who were working with RF here and there. Fade Away and Radiate that one... This is why Pete Frame is so successful... nearly as bad as working out the Purple / Rainbow/ Whitesnake / Ozzy/ Gary Moore / Thin Lizzy Family tree... Merry Christmas Lawrence ('What's email?' - Jerry Seinfeld) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:37:18 -0800 From: larry dot peterson at autodesk dot com Subject: Peter Gabriel's UP Whatever you've heard about this new album, you must listen to "Signal to Noise" before passing judgment. This is one of those pieces of music that captures the moment very powerfully. As far as I can tell, this is a great example of Fripp's "music that was waiting to happen". The studio version is great, but the live performance is almost a religious experience. Anyone who can create music this stunning deserves to be heard by everyone. As far as the rest of the album is concerned, "I like it" - your mileage may vary. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:55:36 -0600 From: "John Spannaus" Subject: Vincent Gallo's Review fo TCOL Anyone who is a fan of good music and good film should go rent the movie Buffalo '66. Directed, Written, Composed by and starring Vincent Gallo.. Beautiful movie.. And features some great scenes with music by King Crimson and Yes. I just found this review of TCOL by the man himself.. It's a bit rambly, but interesting. If you don't know who he is, go watch Buffalo '66 right now! ----- REVIEW OF THE KING CRIMSON LP, 'THE CONSTRUKCTION OF LIGHT' BY VINCENT GALLO, JUNE 5, 2000 I bought with my own money, well money I stole, my first Beatle album in 1967. The Beatles were the perfect band for a seven-year-old to get interested in music, rock music. By the way, I never liked hippies, I hate hippies, especially pot smoking hippies. Marijuana and socialism were the evils of the twentieth century. In 1974 I bought with my own money, well money I stole, my first King Crimson album. It was their first album which had been released five years earlier, 'Court of the Crimson King'. Almost twenty five years later I would use a track from the album titled 'Moonchild' in my masterpiece film 'Buffalo 66'. The song and the album are modern classics. You know, in the sixties and early seventies people under twenty-five years old controlled only a small portion of the economy. They didn't spend so much money on things that would be mostly insignificant in their lives. Bands could sell only a hundred thousand copies of an album and have major impact worldwide. When I say the word 'impact' I really just mean that if a person, a band, a thing never existed then the world would be different. Different in a real way, in a way that allowed other people in the future to move forward in their language and ideas to have capacity to think new thoughts. Ronald Regan had impact. So did King Crimson. When I started listening to King Crimson and some of the better progressive rock bands then, it really felt like the ideas, sensibilities, aesthetics and certainly the music were complex and very new and had a real relationship with the most interesting younger people of the time. Certainly all the work that I've done in my life was effected by my experience with music at that time, in a real way. These bands were not 'trendy'. I'm sure Fripp, the guys in 'King Crimson', the band 'Yes' and certainly 'Genesis' had probably idolized several heroes from their childhood. Who knows who those heroes were, it doesn't matter because they were able to transcend all their influences, even their whole ideas about being in a rock band. When a mini-dwarf rich kid from Nashville like Harmony Korine flies first class and moves to New York City's Soho in his 'plush safe' apartment, running around town quoting Godard with lines like, "Fuck the bourgeois", it's insincere, it's calculated, it's unoriginal, and it's the worst thing in the world, 'trendy'. He already knows that he and his boring girlfriend Connecticut Chloe Sevigny are going to be on the cover of 'The Face'. He knows he'll get his run at The Angelica and be hip in Japan. But no one will ever make an important film because they saw 'Gummo' or 'Donkey Boy'. The only impact Harmony Korine will have will be on the lives of the girls he slipped drugs to, got stoned and raped while they were passed out. An autobiographical scenario he chose to include in his average screenplay 'Kids.' I'll fuck your ass Cary Woods. The friends who I went to see King Crimson, Yes and Genesis concerts with, were the same friends who were hip enough to go with me to see The Ramones' first gig in Buffalo, and the same friends who later dug 'Spoony G'. Where do records go now? Where are they? Who buys them? And why do they buy them? Did they listen to them? The whole thing? Or just the song on the radio. And why don't they listen to them anymore? People do a lot of shopping. Shopping to shop, shop shopping, shopping shop, shippidy shop shopping. I had a storefront on Elizabeth Street one time, for one month. As a conceptual joke I put some items in the window for sale. A one-legged pair of jeans, an empty Evian bottle, a box of dirt, a rotten banana, and an unused, but unwrapped, condom. The store was mobbed and everything sold. The new King Crimson album, 'The Construkction of Light,' will not have real impact. It is not the best King Crimson record. If I had to chose, I'd have to say I like the song 'Into the Frying Pan' best, even though it's the most mainstream track. It's weird when a band that existed outside of the mainstream does an album whose best track is almost a radio song. A radio song in the year 2000. ---Vincent Gallo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:27:04 -0500 From: "Chris Holderfield" Subject: Re: ProduKction Great points made. With the 'happy' album, I mostly listened to guitars at first....then I started paying attention to drumming, and even on LTIA Part 4 it sounds a lot better! It also sounds great on the title track. It seemed like on TCOL that he was almost afraid to hit the drums every once in awhile, but this is a great step forward. I'm really looking forward to TPTB album, and think it's going to be awesome. I haven't been a fan for a long time, but I feel this is going to be the best since maybe Discipline. I've read some reviews and they're all great! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:09:02 -0700 From: "Proginoskes" Subject: ELP's 21CSM / Queen Crimson Sandy Starr wrote: > > Talking of ELP, what do people think of their brief version of 21st > Century Schizoid Man on their Then and Now album? Flame away, but I > think it's rather good with Emerson's keyboards on it. Not as good as > the double trio version of the tune on Vrooom Vrooom, of course. I was disappointed that ELP didn't do the complete bridge (with Emerson playing the sax and guitar solos, of course). Before hearing this track, I was imagining how it would sound, and it sounded MUCH better. Concerning Queen Crimson: After listening to the 'Brondsbury Tapes', it's even harder to draw a dividing line between Giles, Giles and Fripp, and King Crimson, and I would probably consider Judy Dyble as part of KC. I mentioned Paulina Lucas, because she appeared on an album by KC, which makes a better example. (I had thought about this question a year or two ago, and finally came upon her name.) May I assume that Robin Miller is a he? -- Christopher "HeKcman" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 03:07:52 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: Re: Devil's Triangle/Mars I understand that the James Gang had the same problems with Ravel's estate that King Crimson had with Holst's. In fact for many years Bolero was deleted from the Bomber suite although it has been restored on the cd release of "Rides Again". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:48:47 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Miller Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel, Ticket Prices, and Progress Dear Readers, In ET 1072, Alexander Haas writes: need I force someone to listen to Broadsword and the Beast followed by Catfish Rising? The question is posed in the context of a well-written paragraph addressing progress. I adore Tull. I forget to listen to Broadsword and I had actually forgotten how good it really is. The harsh reality of a back-to-back comparison to Catfish is nearly unbearable. It was also instructive for me, for the years 1973, 1982, 1995, and 2000, to compare Tull and Crimso. Tull Crimso 1973 Passion Play LTIA 1982 Broadsword Beat 1995 Roots to Branches THRAK 2000 J-Tull Dot Com TCOL There was a time when Tull dominated my personal playlist. More than anything, the contrasts here explain why this is no longer the case. The year 1969 was special. If you dont believe or know this, do the research and pay close attention to the albums that were released that year. From that magical moment in time, Crimso progressed. Tull never did. Glenn Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:26:02 -0600 From: CRAIG Subject: Re: First Day outtakes >Subject: Re: First Day outtakes >It is correct that nearly an entire album's worth of material was left off >of The First Day. This was mostly due to the emergence of God's Monkey >and the seventeen minute Darshan (the road to graceland) late in the >sessions. I do believe that all of the completed tracks from these >sessions have now been released. >The Gift (originally titled Ascension) was included on Trey Gunn's solo >disc 1000 Years. If this is so, why are neither Sylvian or Fripp listed as appearing therein? >By the way, The First Day will always remain as my favorite "KC by any >other name" disc ever released. It's a shame that he turned down Fripp's >offer to front the group, causing them to go their separate ways. >Sylvian's gift for songwriting and his precise production skills would >have undoubtably added another dimension to the group. What to speak of his voice...... Hell YES! What a shame it never worked out. ~C ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:31:38 -0600 From: CRAIG Subject: Re: Lizards album, Fourth Wall >Back in the eighties I remember having several albums from a band called >"Flying Lizards" and Fripp was featured on them. >Question: Are these records availible on CD and if so where can I get >copies? Fripp was only on the second Lizards album, "Fourth Wall" (1981). No CD IIRC......... ~C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 22:38:34 -0000 From: "Allan Merry" Subject: Re: Correction? I Say Neigh, Sir! Sorry to keep this going but in ET 1073 S.P.Goodman said: >In ET #1071 - Same designation as the original "Enterprise" by the way >(NCC-1071), I put forth: >>>At least they called them THE Pink Floyd! I haven't heard them referred >>>to as that since the BBC broadcast-on-tape of an "Ummagumma" period >>>performance somewhere round 1971 or so: I still fondly remember the >>>announcer hushedly saying, "Roger Waters actually produces that effect >>>with his own voice," referring to "One of These Days..." >But "John Spannaus" jspannaus at austin dot rr dot com replied with a "happy" >correction: >>Sorry, being a Floyd-Fanatic, I have to chime in with a quick >>correction.... The only vocalizations on "One of these Days" is courtesy >>of Nick Mason.. >Well, thanks for catching that one, but NO, the mistake was the >announcer's. Of course it was Nick Mason, not Waters! Even at age 13 I >caught THAT one. :) >Perhaps the BBC was urging people to be more "hip", and this gaff came >about in a desire to dispense PF minutae however erroneously. It wouldn't >be the first or the last time this happened in the press, whether British >or otherwise... Alas, the vintage 1971 cassette has gone the way of, well, >old cassettes. If this is the same as the BBC recording I still have - in the form of the Harvested CD "Meddler(d)" which is basically a recording of the BBC show from the Paris Cinema on the 30th Sept. 1971 the announcer is none other than John Peel and it is Nick Mason who is credited by JP and not RG. Worth trying to get this recording from the Harvested site as it is brilliant quality and a great version of Echoes. Hope this clears things up. Allan Confusion will be my epitaph ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 05:25:01 -0800 (PST) From: russell at whitworth dot com Subject: Flying Lizards > From: Mark Richfield Mark Richfield wrote: "Back in the eighties I remember having several albums from a band called "Flying Lizards" and Fripp was featured on them. Question: Are these records availible on CD and if so where can I get copies?" The album in question is "Fourth Wall". At the time I bought it, I was suffering a major Crimson/Fripp addiction - and set out deliberately to buy something completely unrelated. Only later at home when I first listened to it did I start to think "hang on - there's something familiar about that guitar sound." Check the sleeve notes carefully... yep, I had failed yet again to buy a non-Fripp album. I've still got my vinyl copy, so have no particular need for CD. Haven't listened to it for years though... so thanks for the reminder. I think I'll put it on now. A quick Google search reveals mention of an out-of-print Japanese CD release, and a comprehensive and glowing review: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:59:08 +0100 From: "FS.Info" Subject: Anagrams of "King Crimson" Rearranging the letters of 'King Crimson' gives: Sick morning. Mock in grins. In grin mocks. Conk grim sin. Mining corks. Mining rocks. Mock in rings. In ring mocks. Grim 'n' on sick. Grin mock sin. King microns. Sick 'n' grim no. Is grim 'n' conk. Mock ring sin. Gin sick norm. Grim nick son. I'm. Conk grins. Grim nick 'n' so. On grim nicks. On grim snick. Mock 'n' rising. I'm. Conk rings. Grim sink con. Mocking 'n' sir. Skin grim con. Is mock 'n' grin. Risk 'n' coming. No! grim nicks. No! grim snick. Con smirking. Is mock 'n' ring. Smock in grin. Sic king norm. I'm. Scorn king. Kings micron. Mock 'n' I grins. Grin 'n' I mocks. Conk sign rim. Smock in ring. Grin sic monk. Snog rim nick. Crimson king. In corking Ms. Mock 'n' I rings. Ring 'n' I mocks. I'm. Kings corn. Conk sing rim. Sick gin on Mr. King coins Mr. Sic monk ring. Grim, non sick. Groin nick Ms. Grim con inks. In grim conks. I'm cronk sign. Rim nick song. Ink grim cons. OK 'n' grim 'n' sic. Mock rinsing. Coin kings Mr. Mock inn rigs. Coming rinks. Mock 'n' in rigs. I'm cronk sing. Rocking in Ms. I conk sign Mr. Coin king Mrs. Sic king on Mr. No! gin sick Mr. Gin 'n' mock sir. I'm. Sign 'n' rock. Incoming krs. Rig mocks inn. I'm. Cork 'n' sign. I snog nick Mr. I'm. King corns. Scoring mink. I conk sing Mr. In 'n' rig mocks. Ski 'n' grim con. I'm. Sing 'n' rock. In ming corks. In ming rocks. Sick go 'n' in Mr. Conk gins rim. I'm. Cork 'n' sing. OK in grim CNS. Conk grim Nis. Nick go in Mrs. Gink microns. I conk grin Ms. So gin nick Mr. Rim kings con. Ink's grim con. Groin sick Mn. Sick nor ming. Gin sick morn. King in corms. Grim kin cons. Grim 'n' in sock. Rig 'n' mock sin. Rock gin in Ms. Corking mins. Is mocking Rn. KCSI morning. Sock grim inn. I'm. Corks 'n' gin. I'm. Rocks 'n' gin. Corking Nims. On sick in mgr. On sick in MGR. Nock grim sin. No! sic king Mr. Conk grin mis. Ring in, mocks. On Mick grins. In mocking SR. Gnomic 'n' risk. Rink comings. Learn about the Anagram Genius software that made these anagrams ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 20:07:47 +0000 From: Craig Ward Subject: Re: Production I never did understand Sid Smith's comment about the "woolly" production of TCOL. I always found it suitably dark and heavy when it needed to be, but not short of a lightness of touch, courtesy of Mastellotto's electronic drumming (which bugged me at first but later struck me as being the freshest thing about the album - Heaven And Earth aside). I am equally puzzled by some of the comments on this subject in recent postings. While I agree that Beat could be better (and the only thing really wrong with it is the snare drum sound - Bruford's snare should go piing! not pff), I can't find anything wrong with Discipline. It sounds honest and unaffected and direct, and I've never wanted any record to sound anything other than that. This is why I have a particular fondness for Starless And Bible Black. The studio is barely present in its production, and that much is audible. SABB is the sound of 4 young men finding a unique musical vocabulary, no particular ego dominating the landscape, no external pressures or influences audibly bearing down on the project (in any negative way). When the presence of a studio or a producer is audible in a recording, we hear music ensnared in its economic context. The only truly honest audio image of a band is a live performance recording. (This does not mean all else is worthless - just not as honest). Production, as Thurston Moore once said, is "just a record company's way of doing someone a favour". Music produces itself, despite the interference of personalities. I could go on, but it's Friday night and I fancy a pint. More later, then. Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 20:07:32 -0600 From: "John Spannaus" Subject: I GOT THE NEW ALBUM, SUCKERS! Wooohoo! I just managed to get a copy of the new album... Yes, THAT new album.. The Power to Believe.. I'm writing this after only ONE listen, so most likely, many of my thoughts will change, but here are my first impressions. 1) "The Power to Believe (A Cappella)" -- A NEW track.. Very similar to the pseudo-haikus from the Happy EP.. But, a little less distortion on the voice I think (or maybe just a different type of distortion.. But don't worry, they never ask "Do You Feeeeel Like We Do?")... For some reason, it seems less "fillerish" than on Happy.. Cool intro. The subtlety of this poem contrasting with the heavy opening chords of the next track complient eachother greatly.. Up to this point I thought the phrase "The Power to Believe" was a bit too corny for my tastes, but within the context it works.. Distorted versions of this pop up a couple times throughout the album... "She carries me, Through days of apathy. She watches over me. She saved my life, in a manner of speaking, When she gave me back, The Power to Believe." 2) "Level Five" -- Most of us are already familiar with this song.. I, however, have only very recently got the Live in Nashville CD, so I really don't know it too well yet. Pretty similar to the live track.. Either way, it definitely kicks ass. But I can't shake the Larks' Tongue feeling from my head when I listen to it.. Personally, I like Larks Tongues 4 better, but there is something about the groove that makes them very similar in my mind. Maybe its just me.. Good track, nonetheless.. One of my favorite tracks on the album, actually... 3) "Eyes Wide Open" -- For some reason when I saw the "acoustic version" label for the song on the Happy EP, I expected the LP version to be some crazy rocker.. Boy, was I wrong. It plays exactly like the Happy version.. But is that bad thing? Hell, no! I dig this song.. Good lyrics, too... But, personally, I think maybe the "acoustic" version was a little bit better.. We'll see about that after a few more listens.. Sorry to burst your bubble if you were waiting for a "rocked out" version of this song... One of the better tracks, in my opinion.. 4) "Elektrik" -- Another song you probably know from Nashville. There's a few differences, but overall, it's still the same song.. It's quite good, but it doesn't flow as well as it could.. That's a minor complaint, however, because it still rocks.. Probably one of the better tracks. 5) "The Power to Believe II" -- Hey, a NEW track! Unfortunately, it's a bit boring.. It's actually just a slow intro to the next track (which is, ironically, ALSO an "intro").. Not much to say about it, really.. 6) "Facts of Life (Intro)" -- Another NEW track.. Hmmm.... I'm still a bit undecided about this one.. It's definitely a rocker.. But it takes a while before it starts sounding really inspired.. (Which is actually when the instrumental portion kicks in).. Maybe the problem lies in the lyrics.. They're just not very interesting. And it's not that Adrian sings them poorly, they're just not great lyrics.. Kinda like the case with "Happy"... 7) "Facts of Life" -- NEW track.. I'm not sure why the previous track was called the "intro" to this one.. This track brings the momentum WAY down, and goes into an almost early-Floydian synth avant groove.. But, uh, more electronic, I guess.. This eventually turns into a pseudo-eastern little melody (sounds like Shoganai snuck in a little bit here) while the "The Power to Believe" poem is overlayed. I'm definitely not saying it doesn't work, but it takes a while to get into.. It picks up some about half way through and stays pretty strong until the end, however.. I'm sure there will be mixed responses to the two "Facts of Life" tracks.. We'll see, I guess.. 8) "Dangerious Curves" -- And right back into familiar territory.. Another tune you'll recognize from Nashville.. A few differences here.. First of all, the guitar is always up front (which I like).. The intensity still takes time to fade in, but all the instruments fade in pretty much equally.. (In Nashville, the guitar was way behind for the first couple minutes).. It's also about two minutes longer than the live version.. And they make use of it.. It's one of the better tracks, but here's my complaint.. The whole structure of the song makes the listener think that this is all one big intro to some crazy guitar frenzy rock out jam.. The next track ("Happy") WOULD be the perfect fulfillment of this promise, but "Dangerous Curves" goes on about 30 seconds too long when it is fading out, and all the momentum is lost.. It's like, what was the point? Still a cool song, despite that.. One of the better tracks.. 9) "Happy With What You Have to Be Happy With" -- We all know the song.. This version is a bit shorter, which actually helps, I think.. But I didn't see too many other differences.. Maybe the contrast will become more apparent after a few listens.. But there's certainly no surprises here.. It kicks ass, but I don't care for the lyrics.. I know everyone says that its a "clever observation of modern music" or whatever.. But I'd rather hear a clever original than a clever parody.. 10) "The Power to Believe III" -- Another NEW track.. Instrumental.. Starts off slow.. Picks up a little bit, and then ends.. It's not bad, but it never really goes anywhere.. And as soon as you think it MIGHT go somewhere, it stops.. Maybe it'll grow on me.. 11) "The Power to Believe IV Coda" -- NEW song.. The poem once again, this time set to light music.. Great album closer. So, all in all, it's a good album.. But it's not perfect.. And while you're anxiously waiting for it, try to remember that you've already heard about half of it (assuming you own Nashville) and, most likely, the other half isn't going to totally rock your socks off.. Either way, I'm happy to know that the Crims are still putting out quality material in 2002, but there's nothing as groundbreaking as "Starless" or "21st Century Schizoid Man" to be found here.. On a side note, I think Potatoe Pie should have made it onto this album.. I dig that song.. (If you absolutely hated that track from the happy EP, then maybe you'll view this entire album quite differently than I did). As for any criticisms about the production, I'll have to listen to the album in my car or at home first.. The hifi I listened to it on had small speakers and no sub.. Anyways, buy this album when you get a chance.. I'd like to hear what some other Eters think.. It certainly makes me appreciate Nashville a lot more.. I also got Ladies of the Road today, but I haven't listened to it yet.. I skipped through it, and some of the songs sound quality sounded pretty crappy.. I'll post some thoughts on that when I get a chance.. (sorry for the rambling!!" . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 09:57:30 -0500 From: "Michael" Subject: Re: "Flakes" vocal In ET 1074, Eric Johnson wrote: >From: eric dot johnson at dpsnc dot net >Subject: "Flakes" vocal >For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody >with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann. Okay, here's the real deal, straight from Belew himself. It was during his acoustic show, at The Paradise in Boston, MA, and he was taking questions from the audients between songs. I asked him how he met FZ, and he told the whole story about his band, "The Sweethearts," etc. The discussion then led to his participation on the "Sheik Yerbouti" album, and Adrian explained that he didn't read music, so after band rehearsal, he and Zappa would have to sit together and work out his parts. As Ade was working out one bit, he said it felt sort of like a "Bob Dylan" thing, and began doing the Dylan impersonation, which Frank liked so much, he insisted on including it in the show. Further evidence of this can be seen in the Zappa film "Baby Snakes." At some point, Adrian can be seen with a harmonica, playing cheesy sort-of Dylan/Neil Young sounds. Michael J. Ventura michaeljventura at hotmail dot com "Let the audio sodomy begin!" - Les Claypool, introducing Adrian Belew, Columbus, OH, 11/19/2002 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 10:51:17 EST From: Campiglio4 at aol dot com Subject: Re: PG vs. KC Scott, what's wrong with smoking pot like a chimney? Does that make be boorish? Next time take a close look at the person yelling "Talk to the Wind", it just might be some kid who doesn't know any better. If you think that is the reason why some people feel that that KC has lost a connection with some of their fans, I'd like to know what you're smoking. Their music has become more of an acquired taste with every new recording and Fripp falls back further in the shadows with every tour. I suppose if Fripp plays from backstage on the next tour that will be fine with you? I guess if their is any commonality between KC & PG, it's the fact that their audience is dwindling; they both played to half filled houses last time around. The good news: they both appear to have enough money to finance tours and play music that they want....which is fine with me. I don't expect either camp to appease the music industry for popularity sake.....thank goodness. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 11:10:20 EST From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: Re: "Flakes" vocal eric dot johnson at dpsnc dot net wrote: >For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody >with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann. It certainly is Adrian on the released version. He is properly credited with lead vocals (with Zappa) on _Sheik Yerbouti_. After Adrian left Zappa's band, Ike Willis took over the Dylan impersonation for 1980 performances of the song, and Ed Mann did it on the 1981-82 tour. Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew "These insufferable Fripps, men who ought never to be trusted..."--P.G. Wodehouse ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 10:19:48 -0700 From: Guido Vacano Subject: Re: Subject: "Flakes" vocal > > >Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:22:19 -0500 >From: eric dot johnson at dpsnc dot net >Subject: "Flakes" vocal > >For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody >with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann. > According to whom? From _Frank Zappa: The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play_ by Ben Watson, page 355: "The message of 'Flakes' collapses in on itself because it deftly removes the moral core required for the 'protest' singer. It starts out protesting at the poor quality of service delivered by West Coast businesses, but when the song is turned over to Adrian Belew as Bob Dylan impersonator, the absurdity . . . becomes so towering that it blots out the original idea." If that's not good enough for you, how about this excerpt from an Adrian Belew interview? "Q: How did the arrangements of songs evolve throughout rehearsals and tours? Did they change dramatically? AB : Yes, they did. They all changed a lot. Frank would try out all these different types of arrangements and it was amazing to watch him completely change the song. I learnt five hours of material, of which I would say a good two hours was brand new. So he was trying out all these new ideas and different ways. He would arrange a song about five or six different ways before he finally arrived at it. In fact, the one I remember was 'Flakes'. When Frank showed it to me at home one night on a weekend, when he sat and played it on guitar, it sounded like a lousy folk song (laughs), so I started kidding about with it, singing it like Bob Dylan, and he said 'That's in the show.You're going to do it that way.'" from The Crimson Twang Bar King: An Interview With Adrian Belew by Gary Marks T'Mershi Duween #40 August 1994 copyright Fred Tomsett This might be a difficult concept for some people, but a thing ain't necessarily so, just because you FEEL it is! BTW, Ed Mann's voice is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike unlike Bob Dylan's. Guido Vacano ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 18:29:40 +0100 From: "Andrew Thiermann" Subject: Re: afield of Space Groove This will, thankfully be the last I post on this subject, as I would like to see more talk about what others felt about the ProjeKcts and not strictly people bashing on their opinions: As I have stated in every post I have made on the subject of Space Groove/the ProjeKcts, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I have my opinions about the projeKcts and I stated them, and true the original reason I posted about those said opinions is because I felt that saying that the only reason they were released was to make money, ie RF and co felt they could make a quick buck off the 'suckers' that buy all music that has the name King Crimson. I feel this opinion it incorrect, however, you are entitled to have it. Saying things like: >My main points are intended to respond to someone saying that I don't >have a right to an opinion on this matter, either because it's "not KC" >(which I didn't say), or "it's not a serious release" (which it is), or >"any negative statement indicates a naysayer who inherently has no >right to an opinion" (which I'm not). I never said you didn't have the right to have an opinion, I said I disagreed with you, and that IS allowed. In addition to this, because i disagreed I didn't want others who haven't heard the ProjeKcts to think that everyone did not like them, I feel that the most important thing in a discussion is to have differing views and that is why I gave my views on the subject. That said, I hope that this 'opinion bashing' is finished, if you or others, have anything to add to this discussion, as it has veered far away from its intended purpose of discussing the ProjeKcts please reply to me personally and don't take up anymore of Toby's time or others who read ET. Thank you and I hope that my explaination of reasons behind posting is sufficent to stop you from bashing me in the future. Thanks again. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 12:52:26 -0600 From: CRAIG Subject: Re: slang / word play? ("The Great Deceiver" lyric) >This is poor writing and spelling; its not about King Crimson; its also >homophobic and ugly. I simply dont want to see this kind of stuff. If >this is what ET has become, then I dont want to see ET. > [ It was an error on my part to publish the post you refer to. I hoped that > my comment to the post would ironically point out the fact that I felt > the "fagot" [sic] comment was pathetic and offensive. I regret that it > didn't seem to, for many people. I will not tolerate gratuitously > offensive stuff in ET, and in future I will get tougher on this. -- Toby ] Agreed, (I have a number of good friends who are gay),... but this topic recalls a lyric (written by King Fripp, IIRC), from Krimson`s tune "The Great Deceiver" on STARLESS & BIBLE BLACK... you know the one... "Health food faggot with a bartered bride. Likes to comb his hair with a dipper ride,..."... etc. ...What was *that* all about??? (Certainly not the British slang for a ciggarette) ~C ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 19:56:06 -0200 (E. South America Daylight Time) From: "Carlos Henrique Moller" Subject: "Flakes" vocals, or how to get the right source! hi again! Mr.eric.johnson whatever wrote: "For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann." well, despite of the fact i'm with the Sheik Yerbouti booklet opened right now, where it says 2 FLAKES/Zappa lead vocals: Zappa & Belew i thought it would be a good idea to find out what was very wrong with the above statement (the Ed Mann thing). then i have also a good book, named Viva Zappa! (Dominique Chevalier, Omnibus Press, 1985) opened on page 47/48: "Another time, Zappa showed him (Belew) a song, part of which seemed so Dylan-ish the Adrian could not resist singing it as such. The excellent result, plus harmonica, is "Flakes", ('Sheik Yerbouti')." so, next time, try a little deeper research.... Carlos Henrique Moller Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer chmoller at terra dot com dot br ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 17:06:02 -0600 From: John Michael Beard Subject: Re: "Flakes" vocal At 02:19 PM 12/21/02 +0000, you wrote: >For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody >with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann. Both Zappa and Adrian have commented in numerous interviews that Adrian did the Dylan bit on Sheik Yerbouti; Zappa said Adrian did "a great Dylan impression". You are correct about Ed doing it later. John Michael Beard ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:16:21 -0500 From: "Craig J. Clark" Subject: CGT's Christmas CD I bought the California Guitar Trio's "10 Christmas Songs" through DGM last January but didn't listen to it until recently (for obvious reasons). Now, is it just me, or is that an uncredited Robert Fripp playing the electric guitar solo in the middle of "Greensleeves"? It starts around two minutes in and lasts a good two minutes, which would make it the longest sustained Fripp solo on record in some time, if it is in fact him. -- Craig J. Clark "I believe -- so strongly -- in mayonnaise." cjclark at earthlink dot net --Elmo Oxygen, denizen of for the uneasily amused --> Schizopolis ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:09:30 -0800 From: stgor at apricorn dot com (Steven Gordon) Subject: heroes What is so cool about the guitar playing on the song "Heroes?" By David Bowie? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:57:10 -0000 From: "Chris Hendrie" Subject: Flakes vocal again In response to this... >Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:22:19 -0500 >From: eric dot johnson at dpsnc dot net >Subject: "Flakes" vocal >For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody >with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann. I'm afraid this is wrong AB DOES sing the Dylan parody on Flakes. I know this for sure because AB told me when I had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of weeks ago in London. He went on to tell me about his first meet with the former Mr Zimmerman and how Dylan said to him (I'm paraphrasing here) 'I heard you do a pretty good me.' *********************** Chris Hendrie Product Manager Sanctuary Records Group Ltd Sanctuary House 45-53 Sinclair Road London W14 0NS Tel - 020 7300 6588 Fax - 020 7300 6590 Mobile - 07770 732 666 *********************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:23:56 +0100 From: "A.D." Subject: Merry Kchristmas And a happy with what you have to be happy with new year. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:05:29 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Fripp in a ball; valid criticism; what little common sense we had >> I dont expect Fripp to bounce around the stage in a giant inflatable ball, >i dunno, that would be kinda cool..... If he did that, he wouldn't have to put up the plexiglass sound deflectors. >It is easier to denigrate at length than to produce valid criticism (the word can be both positive and negative). Ain't it is. >The set ended and Fripp got up and left. I didn't notice if anyone else bothered him but since he stayed for the whole set I guess no one else bothered him. I guess we just used what little common sense we had and treated him like we would like to be treated while watching a show. I told you it was boring. Thanks for your boring story, it was really quite exciting. >Supporting great independant art is a responsibility and a pleasure. - S. np: CGT, 10 Christmas Songs scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 13:47:15 -0500 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Re: Another Chorus... >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:20:02 -0800 >From: "H b" >Solstice greetings to all: And from me. >There's the Talking Heads connection, where, I feel Adrian really >developed his singing style(a Byrning influence). There's some great >playing on 'Remain In Light'...and don't forget the Frippish lines found >on 'Fear of Music''s I Zimbra.... Do you mean those "Frippish lines" that were played by, um, Fripp? Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 16:17:33 -0800 From: stgor at apricorn dot com (Steven Gordon) Subject: elephant talk During the song "Elephant Talk," after the verse beginning with D, who plays the wailing guitar as they intertwine? This is my favorite part of the song. Adrian plays it on the video "Three of a Perfect Pair: Live in Japan," is it the same on the studio version? Steven ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:46:50 -0500 From: "Dave Lane" Subject: Re: "Flakes" vocal eric dot johnson at dpsnc dot net wrote: >For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody >with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann. When Belew was in the band, it was Belew. On the album, it was Belew. --Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:00:43 +0000 From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Re: "Flakes" vocal eric dot johnson at dpsnc dot net writes: > >For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody >with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann. > Well, with the beating that my memory has taken lately, I'm a bit gun shy, but I think you're mistaken . . . at least as regards the version on the 1979 2LP set 'Sheik Yerbouti' on which this piece first officially appeared. The credits specifically indicate that Zappa and Belew share vocal duties, and I specifically remember Adrian singing the 'Dylan' portion of the piece live with FZ when I first heard it live on tour in 1978. I do believe Mann was also in that touring outfit however; I seem to remember some crazy percussionist racing around the stage like a man possessed . . . perhaps he took over the vocal parody duties after Adrian moved on? Merry Christmas to all and to all a Good Night! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 09:36:04 -0600 From: Craig Subject: KEITH TIPPETT - "Blueprint" *Highly* recommended! NOTE: There were actually two Ovary Lodge LPs after this.......... ~C KEITH TIPPETT - Blueprint (La Cooka Racha 146; UK) Along with the "Ovary Lodge" trio album which followed it (think of this as Ovary Lodge "0") this is one of the spectacular all-time classics [1972] of spontaneous improv. The level of telepathy here between pianist Keith, bassist Roy Babbington, Julie Tippetts on voice /guitar/recorder, Keith Bailey percussion, and ultra-sensitive vibrationist [percussionist is the wrong word for] Frank Perry is stunning: you really can't believe that these are not written pieces...and you can't believe that it's purely acoustic either, so incredible and beautiful is the array of tapestry and texture on display here! And yet these disclaimers: "All music on this album is improvised" - Keith Tippett; "The sounds are acoustic - no electronics are involved " - producer Robert Fripp. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:27:04 +0000 From: hamm at attbi dot com Subject: Flawed Poseidon CD ? I've bought "In the Wake of Poseidon" (remastered), twice, and returned it because of an apparent flaw in the pressing. The seconds are accompanied by a loud and annoying tick at just after 7 minutes in track 7. Is this supposed to happen? Does anyone else experience this with this CD? Is there some way I can find a version of this remastered CD that doesn't have this flaw? H E L P ! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 06:45:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Philip Johnston Subject: Progressive top ten Hi there Channel four(uk) are repeating the top ten of progressive rock this friday, It features brief footage of the 69 hyde park gig amongst other stuff. Crimso came in at number nine, just ahead of Camel!! Best wishes Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 00:03:35 -0800 From: stgor at apricorn dot com (Steven Gordon) Subject: larks' tongues part IV Who plays the solo near the end of the studio version of Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part IV? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:59:13 -0200 From: "diderot-jr" Subject: Early Crim videos Months ago I've found this DVD: "Beat Club Best Of '73 - Various", that can be found at html. It has Larks Tongues In Aspic (same version from KCCC?) among others KC related bands like ELP and Roxy Music. I don't know about the quality of this DVD but I have the Tina Turner at Musikladen (or Beat Club) DVD and it's fine. I would like to know more, from anybody, about this DVD. Diderot ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1075 *********************************