Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1074 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1074 Saturday, 21 December 2002 Today's Topics: fripp in a balloon? sweet! Re: Rolling Stone Re: We have all got them. afield of Space Groove ET Homophobia (was who preforms this tune called dimentia) PG vs. KC Re: playing scales Fripp Sprint Re: Devil's Triangle / Mars Gabriel tour vs. Krim Close Encounters of the Fripp (and Belew) Kind the whereabouts of........ Bruford / Harpo Early crim vids early crim vids "Flakes" vocal The Day Before + Bruford-Matthau link 310 Prague Rock Peacock\Bruford Russian search Does Humor Belong in Music ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:57:46 -0500 From: Dgowc1st at aol dot com Subject: fripp in a balloon? sweet! In a message dated 12/17/2002 12:54:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,"Ken Montgomery" writes: > I dont expect Fripp to bounce around the stage in a giant inflatable > ball, i dunno, that would be kinda cool..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:08:18 -0600 From: "Brothers, Michael (IA)" Subject: Re: Rolling Stone In ET #1072, Ed B. said: >During the hay day of rock, [Rolling Stone] were there to >frame some great events and albums, now, they seem like the MTV of the >printed word - sell outs to urban, hip hop garbage. You had me until you said "garbage". While I wouldn't choose to put Eminem, J. Lo or Jay-Z in my player, calling an entire genre garbage is elitist and inaccurate. Their music speaks to the largest segment of the record buying populace--young adults. Rolling Stone does not create buzz or trends, never has, but it follows them, even in the heyday of rock. In an attempt to sell magazines (gasp!). Putting the likes of Peter Gabriel or our beloved KC on the cover would have the opposite effect. They still provide the same service you wistfully pine for, only we are no longer of their target generation. >Personally, I think "UP" is a little to complicated and sophisticated for >the Rolling Stone/MTV generation to understand. Horse doots! My kids (11 and 7), who are so sophisticated they still haven't mastered flushing the toilet, would listen to UP during every waking hour if they could. On car trips they beg me to bring THRAK and Beat, because they think 'Dinosaur', 'Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream', and 'The Howler' are cool songs. Nothing complicated or sophisticated about it, it's just what they've been exposed to. When they start to make their own choices, I have no doubt they will choose music that speaks to them. Hopefully that will include PG and KC, but then I don't listen to Herb Alpert or Conway Twitty anymore, like my dad probably hoped I would. Take Care, mike "You can't handle the truth. Nooo truth handler you. I deride your truth handling abilities." - Sideshow Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:58:24 EST From: IanSharwood at aol dot com Subject: Re: We have all got them. I note the article by Mr Cameron Devlin. I seek not to insult but rather to bring light not heat; however, I don't think Bill Bruford or Robert Fripp would find trouble obtaining work as musicians. You may not like what they do but their competence is without question. I may not like what is currently on offer from either or both musicians but they are entitled to produce what ever they desire. As for the three you esteem, one I would not, (particularly); two I would, (highly). It is easier to denigrate at length than to produce valid criticism (the word can be both positive and negative). Ian Sharwood ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:41:50 -0800 (PST) From: "J.R. Gattiker" Subject: afield of Space Groove I said about Projekts and RF/KC: >Why aren't they free downloads then? ...and stuff like: >If it's such a problem, why don't they release each new >recording under pseudonym? We know why: they enjoy their reputation. Please don't take these out of context. I was replying to the implication that I have no right to a negative opinion of Projekt Two because they "weren't intended to be money making releases". I intended to illustrate the underlying absurdity, as well as in the second one the absurdity of saying I shouldn't have expectations in the first place. I can see how if you look these in isolation that I think artists should be wards of the state, and everything should be generic. (which I don't, if that's not clear yet) >> So they don't have the right to use their own names? I don't believe that anyone has a "right to their name" in any meaningful sense, simply because personal names are inherently non-exclusive. Where "rights" come into it is when a label (in this case happens to be the name) is a trademark of an artist's body of work. Anyway, what I'm pointing out is NOT that RF *shouldn't* use his name, but that he *does* have the option to use a different label if it suits his purposes. That he doesn't do so has an implication: this is intended as a member of "Robert Fripp's" body of work. Keep in mind that many artists do, in fact, use different labels for their work that they consider to be distinct. I think this is commonly a serious artist who decides to do something whimsical or in a different genre. There are two reasons for them to do this: protect their reputation, and not mislead consumers (very related). My main points are intended to respond to someone saying that I don't have a right to an opinion on this matter, either because it's "not KC" (which I didn't say), or "it's not a serious release" (which it is), or "any negative statement indicates a naysayer who inherently has no right to an opinion" (which I'm not). j ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:06:39 -0800 (PST) From: John Fabiani Subject: ET Homophobia (was who preforms this tune called dimentia) Hi, This is poor writing and spelling; its not about King Crimson; its also homophobic and ugly. I simply dont want to see this kind of stuff. If this is what ET has become, then I dont want to see ET. [ It was an error on my part to publish the post you refer to. I hoped that my comment to the post would ironically point out the fact that I felt the "fagot" [sic] comment was pathetic and offensive. I regret that it didn't seem to, for many people. I will not tolerate gratuitously offensive stuff in ET, and in future I will get tougher on this. -- Toby ] John > Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 04:16:39 EST > From: Lambo4one at aol dot com > Subject: who preforms this tune called dimentia > > i found this bad ass mp3 sometime ago on one of your links and i can't > rember who it is, can you help? I have been into this kind of progressive > rock for as long as i rember.in high school when my fellow classmates were > raving about how bad ass those big hair head bangers of the 80's were. i > thought to myself what a bunch of brain dead fagots. you want to hear bad > ass. I would make them listen to yes,brand x,king crimson ,frank zappa > etc... they all looked at me like I was fucking nuts. I knew right theni > belonged to league of unsung heros, dregs of the earth unite. any way who > wrote this song dimentia. enclosed is a mp3 thank you jon lambert > > [ The mp3 has been snipped. Please contact Jon directly if you'd like to > hear it. Oh, but if you're a "brain dead fagot [sic]", maybe you'd better > not :-) -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:07:48 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: PG vs. KC >OK, heres the Krim connection- this show pointed out to me what was wrong >with the past Krim tour. It was like the band (except for Adrian) didnt >give a crap about the audience. The music was interesting and >challenging, as always, but there was no connection with the audience. Take a look at the audience. The last two Crimson shows I went to (one in San Francisco, one in Las Vegas) were filled with boorish fellows who hollered out song titles and smoked pot like chimneys. Is King Crimson required to "give a crap" about these kind of people? Is it a requirement for them to extend themselves to make a "connection"? I hope King Crimson is encouraged somehow to continue putting on shows in exactly the same manner that they have been doing. Hopefully the audience will extend itself to somehow make a "connection", at which time King Crimson may be motivated to "give a crap" about them. >Also, the PG sound blew away Krim and PG played in an arena (!) This is >inexcusable. On the other hand, the TCOL tour was fantastic AND the band >connected directly and powerfully with the audience (plus the sound was >much better). Well then Monty, either it was better, or it wasn't. - S. np: Craig Recorders ads downloaded from www.firesigntheatre.com scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:01:12 +1100 From: "keir needham" Subject: Re: playing scales >A question ............. what all do you try to focus on while executing the scale? I've always felt that everyone thinks through this process differently. Not too sure about the Guitar Craft Method for this, you might want to check out the site for more info. For me I try to think about the harmony of notes when I am playing and what chords are possible within the scale/s. I also try and focus on getting each note in tune (that is, to bend it ever so slightly until it locks in to the required frequency.) Apart from the bending, the action of fretting doesn't really require much thought usually, unless it is a difficult stretch your fingers aren't used to. Much concentration for me goes into the picking and hitting the correct string with a constant up-down motion regardless of which direction you are moving through the strings. The tempo should be steady and doesn't have to be to fast when you are practising, just constant (a click helps). Then rhythm.. The accents of each note are crucial for dynamic phrasing. With good control over this your playing will develop more feel while still at a constant tempo. I could go on and on..but I'll stop for now. There you go,hope this helps, some of my techniques, but not all. That is just the way I play and so should not be regarded as a 'bible' as such. P.S. I am a resident of Melbourne, Australia looking to join a band with KC influences. if anyone out there wishes to jam pls contact me : ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:25:07 -0600 From: "HYNEK DVORAK" Subject: Fripp Sprint I have a funny little Fripp encounter I'd like to share with ET. After slogging thru a work heavy 97, I decided to treat myself to an overseas trek to London and ahm, Birmingham. You see, Projeckt 1 was residing at London's Jazz Cafe for four nights and the original Black Sabbath was playing at the NEC in Birmingham for the first time in 17 years. Somehow, I managed to drag my very jet lagged and sleep deprived body over to Camden and the Jazz Cafe for the final two nights. It wasn't so much a cafe, as a funky, small and cold club, with an even funkier bathroom downstairs. Both shows blew me away. I have never before and still never been fully captivated for 90 minutes, as I had during those two nights with Bill, Robert, Trey and Tony. Bill, who skittered about with a smile the whole of the evenings, took the initiative to lead the quartet in improv a healthy amount of times. "Sittin'" Robert was only a half dozen feet away from me! The man came to shred and shred he did, although his guitar was a bit lost in the mix at times. Trey was enjoying the four piece freedom and silenced those in the crowd (and there were quite a few) who asked, "Just what exactly is it that he does?". Tony was the most reserved, deferring to the others to layout the sound plan. Once a musical outline was in place, T-Lev joined in with the most consistently creative contributions of the shows of any member. Tony played bass, upright bass, funk fingers and stick. After the last bit of Thraking, Fripp disappeared and the other P1'ers proceeded to take down their equipment. I said "hi" to Trey and Tony. Both very pleasant and signed my ticket stub. Soon after I had my stubs autographed, a voice yelled out, "Where is my condenser mic?". It was Mr. Buford. Throughout the performances, Bill had a condenser mic hanging from a catwalk over his drum kit. Both nights, there was a group of people, sitting on the catwalk with their feet hanging about 7-8 feet above Bill's head. Bill yelled out some more and I believe a Cafe employee came over to discuss the situation with him. Evidently, no one knew where the mic was, 'cause suddenly Bill exploded. Quite cerebral Englishman? Bill managed to spend the next 10 minutes cursing and yelling to no one in particular. Every word was either "motherfucker" or "fucking this or that". Actually, a few bursts of "fucking Robert!" were emitted. I'm not sure if the Robert in question was Fripp or an employee of the Jazz Cafe. Both Tony and Trey took a quick look back and continued packing as if nothing was happening! Show was over and it was close to midnight, so I decided to head out. I walked out of the club and down the few stairs to the sidewalk. As I walked a a few more steps, I heard a flurry of footsteps to my left. Turning around, who do I see? Robert Fripp barreling down the side walk, right past several cabbies leaning against the railing. Folks, Robert, bless his heart, has perhaps the most amusing running style I've ever seen. Being an avid runner for ten plus years, I've seen a lot of funky running techniques. Robert runs with the same super concentrated, upright posture as he does playing guitar. He was wearing a vest and he had his black fanny pack. Fripp bolted up the stairs (not sure if this had anything to due with the Bruford situation) and the track demonstration was over in less than 10 seconds. I just kinda stood there and stared, but I'm not sure if he saw me 'cause his eyes were squinted shut. I doubt that I would have said anything if I was more awake and not caught off guard, although, Fripp's sprint would have made a great picture. I proceeded to the tube where I saw a rat sprint across the floor. Not quite as exciting! I hope that's not the last time I see Bruford playing with his Crimson buddies! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 04:07:57 +0000 From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Re: Devil's Triangle / Mars Laurent Masse writes: >Well, I only read it in Sid Smith's book. Don't have it by me now to check >the page though... Uh . . . I see . . . said the blind man . . . Unfortunately, my brain is apparently full as I honestly did not recall reading that, but there it is on page 93. I humbly yield to your obviously superior powers of recollection. :) (Not to mention everyone else who rememberd reading it as well; I guess I need a vacation!) It is very evident that more was changed than just the name, however, and this was my central point. Regards, Mike http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:54:28 -0600 From: Gerardo Liedo Subject: Gabriel tour vs. Krim Good point Ken, I enjoyed your post. Between the features I liked in the three shows I saw here in the city are ==> He played a total of 8 out of 10 songs from the new album ==> He played only his stuff, no Genesis ==> He did not play commercial stuff (well Sledgehammer, but it was good for pissing and drinking) Many bands tour with greatest hits, or just one or two songs from the new album they are living in and from the past. Crimson goes beyond, sometimes they play unreleased songs or songs from upcoming albums. BTW, see the great pix from the opening of the UP TOUR here: http://www.albec.net.mx/personales/rocksoff/pg-index.htm See Fripp, Gabriel & Levin performing back in 1977 here: http://www.albec.net.mx/personales/rocksoff/h-pg-raelonacidinwonderland-01.j pg I have more and uploaded somewhere on the net. See Yes last Sunday here (N KC C): http://www.albec.net.mx/personales/rocksoff/yes-mexico2002.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:18:12 -0500 From: "Dave Hvizda" Subject: Close Encounters of the Fripp (and Belew) Kind A few issues ago someone asked us to share our stories of a near miss with Fripp. Well you asked for it... boring but true. Hey, I'm an engineer, not an English major. good. ) Place: Mann Music Center Philadelphia, Pa. I had gone to the show with a few friends. We were (still are) real diehard KC fans. We had pretty good seats, center stage about half way back, right behind the sound board. The opening band was Modern English, and I was not too interested in catching their set. So, since our seats were on the aisle, and having just reached the age were I could make such an offer, I offered to go and get a round of adult beverages.( Do the math I'm old) Modern English started their set while I was in line, and as I returned to my seat I couldn't help but notice a bespeckeld middle aged man sitting at the sound board obviously enjoying Modern English. "Fripp?" I thought. Since the internet was only a twinkle in Al Gore's eye back then, and Fripp didn't often appear on the cover of Rolling Stone or Teen Beat, I didn't have easy access the vast library of Fripp images now available. Regardless, I was sure it was Fripp, and I told my friends he was there. They couldn't see if it was Fripp from behind, so they got up and walked by the sound board. They came back and agreed it was Fripp. The conversion then went something like this: "Should we ask for an autograph?" "We should at least say Hi" " He's watching the show" "Yea we shouldn't bother him" "Let's just say Hi" "he's got to know he'll be recognized" "He's used to it" "No he obviously wants to see the band that's why he's out with the common folk" "Yea just 'cause we think they suck it doesn't mean we should bother him" " Yea you're right let's not bother him." The set ended and Fripp got up and left. I didn't notice if anyone else bothered him but since he stayed for the whole set I guess no one else bothered him. I guess we just used what little common sense we had and treated him like we would like to be treated while watching a show. I told you it was boring. Fast forward to 1999. Place: Exit Inn Nashville, Tn. It was Adrian's Coming Attractions tour. We had seen him the night before in Atlanta, since we were on the road anyway, and the show was so good we decided to go see him in Nashville. It was approaching show time, the stage was dark, and the house lights were dimming. I decided I needed to visit the rest room before the show started. The bathroom in the Exit Inn is stage left, so I had to walk past the stage to get to the bathroom. I opened the door, walked in, and much to my surprise, Adrian was standing in front of the mirror with his guitar adjusting his microphone and hat. He looked at me when I walked in, smiled and said "Hi". I didn't know what to say so I cleverly said "Hi". I proceeded to do what I needed to do, and Adrian caught me off guard by asking "Are my people ready?" "Oh, are they your people? " I replied somewhat confused. He laughed and said "If they're not already, they will be after tonight!" I agreed with him and he told me to hurry up. I said " Don't start without me" He held the door for me and I got back to my seat as he was being introduced. Although this encounter only lasted about two minutes, to me at least it confirmed my impression that Adrian is genuinely a nice guy. Since my fiance's parents live in Mt Juliet I visit Nashville often, and I've bumped into all the guys at various gigs, and I must say they all seem to be genuinely nice guys. Still haven't caught any Ian Wallace gigs, but I'm sure I will. Sorry for the length of this post. Dave Stuck inside of Huntsville with the Crimson Blues again. ------------------------------ Date: Friday June 29, 1984 (I still have the ticket. My memory is not that From: "Brandon S." Subject: the whereabouts of........ In a recent issue, someone asked about the woman who sang on the PG album "Secret World": Yes, Paula Cole is still alive. Tony Levin appeared on one of her albums. She did a horrible song that was a hit in the USA about 5-6 years ago called "Where Have All the Cowboys Gone"...I really hated that song. She also had a hit that was over-played that was used on the tv show "Dawson's Creek" called "I Don't Want to Wait" or something like that. BS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:23:40 -0000 From: "S.P. Goodman" Subject: Bruford / Harpo In ET #1073, jhusak at csulb dot edu (Jonathan Husak) put forth: >i was watching the marx brothers' 1933 release "duck soup" with my >roommate last night, and to our surprise, we were blessed with watching >bill bruford play the role of harpo. does anybody else see the >resemblence? immediately after duck soup finished, we threw in crimson's >live in japan (the double trio form) and watched "indiscipline." what a >crack up! i recommend it to all. "Duck Soup" is one of the great films of the 20th Century. My particular favorite section is the war declaration, when the three Brothers do a minstrel routine, singing "They got guns/We got guns/All God's Chillen got guns..." Puts me into paroxysms of hilarity every time! Groucho is to comedy what Einstein is to science. To get back on-topic though, I think the blonde woman who does the deaf-signing for BBC News looks quite a lot like Harpo, especially since she makes these bizarre faces that cause one to remember Harpo's "angry face" (teeth, crossed eyes, puffing cheeks). I suppose it's a form of expression they're scared stiff about discouraging at the BBC, lest they get slapped silly by the Politically-Correct Police. But it still makes me laugh each morning. S.P. Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery - Cartoons and Illustrations! http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack - Cartoons via Medialine! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:54:37 -0500 From: "scott ventura" Subject: Early crim vids In ET 1073, Peter Moss requests info on performance footage from KC's past. I'd been looking forever for just such footage until last week in an edition of ET someone said he downloaded some stuff. I figured "What the hell?" and gave it another try. Lo and behold, I found two versions of the same performance of Larks 1 (one better quality, but shorter length), Easy Money (horrible quality, but hey - it exists) and a "Frying Pan" from Bootleg TV. So what it comes down to is sheer bloodyminded perseverence. Keep watching the skies. sv "The suspense is terrible. I hope it lasts!" --Willy Wonka ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:08:31 -0500 From: "scott ventura" Subject: early crim vids A few moments ago, I posted about finding old KC performances through download. I meant to include a brief message to RF and all concerned that OF COURSE I will gladly belly up to the sales counter and pay for said performances (or any and all that you'd see fit to release commercially). Supporting great independant art is a responsibility and a pleasure. sv "The suspense is terrible. I hope it lasts!" --Willy Wonka ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:22:19 -0500 From: eric dot johnson at dpsnc dot net Subject: "Flakes" vocal For the record, Adrian Belew does not perform the "Flakes" Dylan parody with Zappa; it's multi-percussionist/vocalist Ed Mann. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:34:05 -0300 From: "Carlos Henrique Moller" Subject: The Day Before + Bruford-Matthau link hi you krimheads! talking about The First Day: - i have an excellent alternative CD (meaning bootleg) called The Day Before with live rehearsals of the album, with no drums at all.... interesting! and a lot of Untilted songs. talking about Bruford: - Bruford's Earthworks played here in Brazil and i was glad to see Bruford real close (it was the best show i've ever seen). he looks like a younger Walter Matthau!! and smiling all of the time (even when a "fan" almost pulled him off the stage!). Carlos Henrique Moller Systems Engineer Sao Paulo - BRAZIL chmoller at terra dot com dot br ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:21:13 -0800 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: 310 Prague Rock >http://www.posteverything.com/artists/release.php?id=170 Thanks for this URL David, 310 Prague Rock looks like a fun thing to hear. - S. np: Jethro Tull, Too Old . . . scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:14:18 +0300 From: "WWN" Subject: Peacock\Bruford Russian search Moscovites! Who had ever seen Annete Peacock's (Bruford's in fact) CD "I'm the One" in any shop like Gorbushka? Let me know please - otmylte, kto mozhet ispetch etot blin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:32:30 -0000 From: "Alan Gent" Subject: Does Humor Belong in Music er, I have a copy of the above on video, should I put it on ebay do you think???? Alan www.alangent.com ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1074 *********************************