Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1073 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1073 Wednesday, 18 December 2002 Today's Topics: Re: Devil's Triangle / Mars thank you Early crimson video footage Re: First Day outtakes Fripp and Flying Lizard Queen Crimson Correction? I Say Neigh, Sir! ProduKction Re: Subject: Fripp's production Queen Crimson Dimented Fagots Unight! Re: Devil's Triangle / Mars Re: First Day outakes Family Snapshot?! alleged tony levin note plunderphony Paula Cole / Re: THE Pink Floyd production or sugar daddy? bruford's duck soup ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:05:18 +0100 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Re: Devil's Triangle / Mars > >The Devil's Triangle would have been called Mars had they obtained the > >right to use the name back in 1970. > >Hmmmm, forgive me if I appear to sound condescending, but you say that as >though you have it on good authority . . . is this perhaps only your >opinion? (By all means, if you Do have it on good authority, I'd like to >know that as well :)) > >These are just thoughts to ponder . . . unless Robert (or anyone else with >first-hand knowledge) steps in and answers such questions I doubt seriously >that we'll ever know the actual truth about this. Unless of course Sid >Smith has already collected this info and it will all (eventually) find a >home in the apparently forthcoming KC encyclopaedia . . . ? Well, I only read it in Sid Smith's book. Don't have it by me now to check the page though... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:08:17 -0800 From: "Andy Randrup" Subject: thank you Hi Being middle-aged psychodelichildren,we have not only grown up to feast on the King,but we have also raised three (now) adult children to the gentle screams of their genius.All of us are thriving in our living future,thanks, in part, to the 'crooked music' of our collective youths. We are most delighted to have an access to the multi-path talents of the current and former members of the sonic window cleaners.Our lives would truly not be the same without them. High praise for a good cause! Thanx Andy & Wendy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:48:01 -0000 From: "Peter Moss" Subject: Early crimson video footage Hi I hope somebody can help me. I am looking for any info on how to get video footage of early crimson, especially the Bruford years (1972-74). I have tried on the net everywhere, but most people who have it are tape traders, and seeing as I am not into that and do not have enough material to trade they are not really interested. Maybe RF and the crew have got some old tapes of it and will release it on DVD someday with 5.1 sound! (LOL) Please help Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:54:40 EST From: DrBaht at aol dot com Subject: Re: First Day outtakes It is correct that nearly an entire album's worth of material was left off of The First Day. This was mostly due to the emergence of God's Monkey and the seventeen minute Darshan (the road to graceland) late in the sessions. I do believe that all of the completed tracks from these sessions have now been released. The Gift (originally titled Ascension) was included on Trey Gunn's solo disc 1000 Years. Earthbound / Starblind, Dark Water and Endgame were used as b-sides for the Jean the Birdman single. And, in 2000 Sylvian released the studio version of The Blinding Light of Heaven on his compilation Everything and Nothing. The last song the duo collaborated on was Redemption / Approaching Silence (38 minutes, originally recorded in 1994 : Sylvian on synths and samples, Fripp on voice and frippertronics) was released in 1999. I had the chance to ask Sylvian about the existence of studio tracks for the songs Damage, The House In Which We Live and The First Day and he told me that the band made attempts at those songs but never came near to completion on any of the three. I had previously read otherwise, but I figure if anyone knows for sure, it would be the guy who actually wrote the songs. How I wish the speculation were true, as I had read that there were not only studio versions of the three tracks, but also a fifteen minute remix of The House In Which We Live by David Singleton. By the way, The First Day will always remain as my favorite "KC by any other name" disc ever released. It's a shame that he turned down Fripp's offer to front the group, causing them to go their separate ways. Sylvian's gift for songwriting and his precise production skills would have undoubtably added another dimension to the group. -bahtology ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:46:15 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Richfield Subject: Fripp and Flying Lizard Back in the eighties I remember having several albums from a band called "Flying Lizards" and Fripp was featured on them. Question: Are these records availible on CD and if so where can I get copies? Thanx Mark Richfield ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 03:39:46 -0500 From: David Vella Subject: Queen Crimson Hi, A couple of digests ago, "FS Info" wrote: > > > >Who will be the first female musician in King/Queen Crimson and when will it > >happen? > To which Christopher "HeKcman" responded > Technically, it's already happened. Paulina Lucas sang soprano on _Islands_. > So, aren't we counting Judy Dyble? OK, she was really working with Giles, Giles & Fripp, not King Crimson per se, but to quote the AllmusicGuide website, Dyble "... played a still-overlooked role in the genesis of King Crimson...". Apparently, Fripp agrees, as he chose to put the version of 'I Talk to the Wind' sung by Dyble on the 1976 compilation "Young Person's Guide to King Crimson". [Also, a number of other interesting early GGF recordings with Dyble's vocals are to be found on the recently released 'Brondsbury Tapes'.] Personally, if Fripp ever were to draft a woman vocalist, I'd hope it was Terre Roche. Her screams on the title track of Fripp's solo release "Exposure" sound like they would fit right in with the current unrelenting Crimson sound. Cheers, David Vella 'Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things that escape those who dream only at night' - Edgar Allen Poe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:07:22 -0000 From: "S.P. Goodman" Subject: Correction? I Say Neigh, Sir! In ET #1071 - Same designation as the original "Enterprise" by the way (NCC-1071), I put forth: >>At least they called them THE Pink Floyd! I haven't heard them referred >>to as that since the BBC broadcast-on-tape of an "Ummagumma" period >>performance somewhere round 1971 or so: I still fondly remember the >>announcer hushedly saying, "Roger Waters actually produces that effect >>with his own voice," referring to "One of These Days..." But "John Spannaus" jspannaus at austin dot rr dot com replied with a "happy" correction: >Sorry, being a Floyd-Fanatic, I have to chime in with a quick >correction.... The only vocalizations on "One of these Days" is courtesy >of Nick Mason.. >You're probably referring to "Careful With That Axe, Eugene" or "Come in >#51, Your Time Is Up"............. Well, thanks for catching that one, but NO, the mistake was the announcer's. Of course it was Nick Mason, not Waters! Even at age 13 I caught THAT one. :) Perhaps the BBC was urging people to be more "hip", and this gaff came about in a desire to dispense PF minutae however erroneously. It wouldn't be the first or the last time this happened in the press, whether British or otherwise... Alas, the vintage 1971 cassette has gone the way of, well, old cassettes. S.P. Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery - Cartoons and Illustrations! http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack - Cartoons via Medialine! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:19:27 -0000 From: "Wafo" Subject: ProduKction In ET 1071, Bob (rspeak) writes: "Of all of the things that Fripp and Crimson do well, audiophile recordings are not one of them. Production wise ELP, Genesis, and Pink Floyd from the 70s were way ahead of the 70's Crim. And in the eighties the production gap grew even more." It's funny, isn't it? In many ways, the earliest four albums are much richer, production-wise, than many since. There seems to be a policy in Crim studio albums from LTIA onwards of trying to recreate the live sound (OK, LTIA is way off the mark, sounding very studio-bound, but it generally follows the rule of one man, one instrument) - Red is an exception, with overdubs aplenty, and that's possibly one reason it's so highly regarded (Fripp double-tracks his guitar and it sounds very good indeed - same thing happens on The First Day too). It's not fair to blame Fripp though - Discipline and Beat are two of the least well-produced Crimson albums, yet they're the ones with an external producer. I feel I need to say something about the production values on TCOL. It's generally agreed that it's "woolly", but there's actually a hell of a lot of subtlety in it. I have to admit I found it very strange at first, and that the new stuff is much more immediate ("stunning" would be a better word), but the stuff on TCOL feels much more daring, production-wise, than Thrak. Someone's mentioned it on ET before - that it sounds incredible on acid. I have to admit I've never listened to it on acid, but I did go through a phase of always listening to it when I was incredibly drunk. Perhaps it was only then that I felt sufficiently relaxed to hear all the strange, almost inaudible "noises" that happen around, outside and within the music. I personally think Into the Frying Pan is a production masterpiece. It sounds unlike anything else I've ever heard. There's a lo-fi quality about the whole record, yes, but that's a valid production choice, and in this way, TCOL is much more artfully crafted on the production level than any of the other Crim studio albums. A related point, perhaps - why hasn't anyone mentioned how brilliant Pat Mastelotto's drumming is on Happy? It's incredibly tuneful, yet so simple. There seems to be a "less is more" policy going on in this stuff and, frankly, the drumming on that track is BEAUTIFUL. Another related point - it seems the "edit" of Happy on the EP is actually longer (by about a minute) than the version on the album. Can anyone shed any light on this? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:34:45 +0100 From: "Eddy de Causmaecker" Subject: Re: Subject: Fripp's production Bob(not fripp) wrote: ",,,Most critics rip Fripps production on Gabriels second album. And most agree Sylvians remix of Damage is better that Fripps..." I disagree, Mr. Fripp production has a real "Live" ambience, while Mr. Sylvian's production of the LIVE-album "Damage" made it sound like a studio Sylvian record with Mr. Fripp and other musicians as guests on one of his solo-efforts. Best Wishes, Eddy Flycatcher "I'm very happy playing the bass, playing what you might consider the normal function of the bass, as opposed to being a virtuoso soloist." - Tony Levin flycatcher at zeelandnet dot nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:27:01 +0000 From: Craig Ward Subject: Queen Crimson >Who will be the first female musician in King/Queen Crimson and when will >it happen? Have we forgotten Judy Dyble? Craig ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:06:25 -0500 From: Barry Stock Subject: Dimented Fagots Unight! > From: Lambo4one at aol dot com > Subject: who preforms this tune called dimentia > > ... big hair head bangers > ... brain dead fagots > ... they all looked at me like I was fucking nuts. So the hairspray (and cocaine) failed to damage that part of their brains that recognizes when they're being confronted by the fleshly embodiment of Yosemite Sam, or maybe The Tasmanian Devil? A Looney Tune, not a Merry Melody? -bs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:39:51 -0000 From: Sandy Starr Subject: Re: Devil's Triangle / Mars With all this talk of Holst's Mars and its relationship to the Devil's Triangle, I just wanted to hype up the cracking version of Mars that closes the Emerson, Lake and Powell album that came out (sans Palmer) in the 80s. Emerson has some really nice tones on it. There's some dross on the Emerson, Lake and Powell album, but some good tunes too. Unfortunately, it seems to have been ejected from the ELP canon - Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe syndrome. Talking of ELP, what do people think of their brief version of 21st Century Schizoid Man on their Then and Now album? Flame away, but I think it's rather good with Emerson's keyboards on it. Not as good as the double trio version of the tune on Vrooom Vrooom, of course. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:43:28 -0000 From: Sandy Starr Subject: Re: First Day outakes Tim Rosser wrote: 'Do any of you know the status of the 'missing' material from the Sylvian/Fripp 'First Day' sessions?' I know the status of one of these pieces. 'The Blinding Light of Heaven' is available on the bonus disc of the limited edition version of Sylvian's Everything and Nothing compilation. The studio version of 'The Blinding Light of Heaven' isn't a patch on the live version on Damage, though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:09:29 -0500 From: Dan Cooper Subject: Family Snapshot?! In 1070, Mike Campiglio wrote: "...I enjoyed the show very much; Family Snapshot made the night all worth it!" Wow! That song didn't make the MCI Center playlist. And a friend and I were commenting after the show about how that would have been an incredible song to cover in Washington, given the sniper business a month before. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:28:20 +0000 From: "Spear man" Subject: alleged tony levin note hmm, that note from t lev about his pg diary viaemailer malcolm is a tad suspect since it was dated dec 11th and tony's camera was dead at detroit--difficult to have 'all audiences' shot from that show (december 3rd)..... or maybe malcolm was really slow about mentioning tony's peter gabriel diary. btw, it's dec 17th and there are still no detroit photos..... --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:07:44 -0800 From: "the ryans" Subject: plunderphony I came across this very interesting 'treatment' of Crimson music by 310. http://www.posteverything.com/artists/release.php?id=170 it takes riffs and tidbits from Asbury Park, larks tounges and a few other tunes and creates the plunderphonic 'Pipeless and Smoking Crack'. there are also odes to Tull, Yes, Genesis [particularly excellent] and Floyd all done in the same manner. Great fun. David Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:04:26 +0000 From: "Anna Rose" Subject: Paula Cole / Re: THE Pink Floyd !!!!! Wow! Ihave just bought Peter Gabriel's SECRET WORLD LIVE. Paula Cole is amazing! I've always found female vocalists fairly annoying, but she blew me away. If anyone has any suggestions for what would be best to get hold of more of her stuff, I would be grateful if you could email me. (If Crim ever do plan to have a female lead vocalist, she'd be the one to do it. That's assuming she's still: 1) alive, 2) singing.) And also... sorry to disappoint you, but I think the reason my classmates called them 'The Pink Floyd' was simple ignorance of the band name. Or possibly they meant 'the Pink Floyd music'. But anyway, thanks for all the morale-raising things that various people have said. Good to know I'm not the only one out here with great musical taste. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:23:04 +0000 From: "Spear man" Subject: production or sugar daddy? >Of course they don't have the big budget some of the other bands do. In >general ACrimson is a good/great band in spite of their album productions >and perhaps that is why they are so much better live than they are on >album. There is no way that the Police or Yes could recreate their >"studio sound" live. hmm, well if Miles Copeland was KC's sugar daddy instead of the Police's--whose sound then would meet your approval? --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:23:26 -0800 (PST) From: jhusak at csulb dot edu (Jonathan Husak) Subject: bruford's duck soup i was watching the marx brothers' 1933 release "duck soup" with my roommate last night, and to our surprise, we were blessed with watching bill bruford play the role of harpo. does anybody else see the resemblence? immediately after duck soup finished, we threw in crimson's live in japan (the double trio form) and watched "indiscipline." what a crack up! i recommend it to all. jh ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1073 *********************************