Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1071 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1071 Monday, 16 December 2002 Today's Topics: Note from Tony Levin who preforms this tune called dimentia Re: Robert Fripp Is Full of Shit (Literally) Re: Belew on FZ Happy With a Quick Correction? Food Forethought Re: the many hair styles of Tony Levin Got my Road Journals CDs (finally) Adrian Dylan Fripp's production Zappa:Your High School music class! Wrong on Yes Playing Scales Queen Crimson/"Take it away, Bob" ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:02:05 -0800 From: "Malcolm Smith" Subject: Note from Tony Levin Greetings! I've posted the following to a number of groups and lists, and request that you add this information to an upcoming newsletter. I'd rather not subscribe at this time, just wanted to pass this along, hope you can spread the word. thanks malcolm ********************************* I've got a friend who's involved with some people in the Gabriel tour band, and Tony Levin mentioned to him that he'd like to get the word out on his Gabriel Tour Diary, which he posts daily on TonyLevin.com. Tony asked for help in posting a personal note on a few newgroups and listservers, so here it is: ********************************* Just a note that I keep a road diary of Peter Gabriel's Growing Up Tour on my website - tonylevin.com - already over 10 pages, it's got lots of current diaries and photos, including all audiences! tony levin ********************************* Check out his site: Tonylevin.com -- you can email Tony from there. Tell him you read about it from this newsgroup and maybe my friend can get Tony to "drop in" to the group for a few words/interaction. Thanks ~malcolm ********************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 04:16:39 EST From: Lambo4one at aol dot com Subject: who preforms this tune called dimentia i found this bad ass mp3 sometime ago on one of your links and i can't rember who it is, can you help? I have been into this kind of progressive rock for as long as i rember.in high school when my fellow classmates were raving about how bad ass those big hair head bangers of the 80's were. i thought to myself what a bunch of brain dead fagots. you want to hear bad ass. I would make them listen to yes,brand x,king crimson ,frank zappa etc... they all looked at me like I was fucking nuts. I knew right theni belonged to league of unsung heros, dregs of the earth unite. any way who wrote this song dimentia. enclosed is a mp3 thank you jon lambert [ The mp3 has been snipped. Please contact Jon directly if you'd like to hear it. Oh, but if you're a "brain dead fagot [sic]", maybe you'd better not :-) -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 14:32:43 -0500 From: "Alan Cohen" Subject: Re: Robert Fripp Is Full of Shit (Literally) >We have heard many posts by people who have met / followed / spied on / >been blanked by Fripp, how about those of us who have actively IGNORED him >or treated him as a private individual. Does anyone have any non-event >Fripp encounters? This doesn't fit 100%, but it's along the same lines. I had seen him perform Soundscapes in Allentown, Pennsylvania a few years back, and it was incredible. It was when he was in his 'Radiophonics' stage. So I was back the second night, waiting in the hall for my friend who was in the bathroom (is there a theme emerging here?) when, who do I see walking down the hallway but Fripp? I mustered up the courage to walk over to him, and very formally said "Good evening, Mr. Fripp." He smiled and nodded, didn't say anything and I don't believe made any eye contact, the better to discourage any burning fan questions, like 'Can you sign this?'. So he got into line with the fans. Strange but true. I knew from seeing him the night before that he'd be making his entrance from the stairway, as opposed to from onstage. The first night when he did this, after the opening performers, there was a stunned silence, until he smiled and bowed and we realized that it was okay to applaud. Anyway, when I saw him at the top of the stairs, I said "By the way, I thought that you were incredible last night", or something like that. Again, a smile and a nod. I have to admit that I was pleased that I wasn't one of those fans that forces himself into his space- I just said my piece and let him respond silently. I understand that Fripp doesn't like to talk before a performance, trying to focus his energy towards the music. I'd love to ask him why he'd put himself in a situation where someone like me would walk up to him and try to engage him. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:10:10 -0500 From: Jeremy Weissenburger Subject: Re: Belew on FZ On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:12:35 "Jari Schroderus" wrote: > >> By the way, while we're at this... Am I very very wrong or is that Ade >> singing on "City of Tiny Lives" from "Sheik Yerbouti"? After all, Frank >> *did* recruit Adrian because he was a guitar-player/singer. > > I don't have the cd with me at the moment, but if I remember correctly, the > only song that Belew sings on Sheik Yerbouti is Jones Crusher. No, Belew sings on "City of Tiny Lites," "Jones Crusher," and does the Bob Dylan impersonation on "Flakes." --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:08:05 -0600 From: "John Spannaus" Subject: Happy With a Quick Correction? >At least they called them THE Pink Floyd! I haven't heard them referred to >as that since the BBC broadcast-on-tape of an "Ummagumma" period >performance somewhere round 1971 or so: I still fondly remember the >announcer hushedly saying, "Roger Waters actually produces that effect with >his own voice," referring to "One of These Days..." > >---"S.P. Goodman" Sorry, being a Floyd-Fanatic, I have to chime in with a quick correction.... The only vocalizations on "One of these Days" is courtesy of Nick Mason.. You're probably referring to "Careful With That Axe, Eugene" or "Come in #51, Your Time Is Up"............. Either way, they ARE "THE Pink Floyd" or even "The Pink Floyd Sound" --Nick (Sorry for the title, Nik) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:56:39 -0800 From: " Jon Buckley" Subject: Food Forethought Food Forethought Or why photography and bootleg ruin live music. 1-03 Wired Magazine Read Me Howard Rheingold Author and founder Brainstorms online community Beethoven's Anvil: Music in Mind and Culture, by William Benzon "The author is a cognitive scientist who is also a jazz musician. His thesis is that making music (`musicking') is fundamentally a social phenomenon that actually creates a physical coupling between otherwise separate neurosystems. What's interesting to me is that this is such a weird and far-out theory, but it's well cited in terms of brain research. He's saying essentially that musical arts are not really a cultural luxury, but maybe a pivotal part of evolution from way back that's stuck with us." Discuss. Old Ears P.S.: Big thanks to AC. One really has the opportunity to learn something new every day, should one put ones' self in a position to do so. I appreciate the data. P.S.S.: Desperately sitting in a dark corner of my hovel 'hoping' my subject line is <> enough. The pressure keeps me up nights. Dontcha know?!? P.S.S.S.: P'raps it isn't that Kcrimson's no fun to listen to, perhaps many of those listening have become humorless of their own accord. S'truth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:51:49 -0500 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: the many hair styles of Tony Levin Very hard to find, pictures of Mr. Fripp, here's an older one: > > http://www.eclipse.net/~synergy/petergabrielpix/pg2/pg2pix.htm > > Best Wishes, > Eddy Flycatcher Check out this related link: http://www.eclipse.net/~synergy/petergabrielpix/pg1/pg1pix.htm for a look at Tony before his trademark hairdo! Wow there are pictures of Tony with hair and a beard, and bald with no mustache. Very strange... It just occured to me that I had never even considered that Tony Levin ever looked different in his whole life. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:45:51 -0800 (PST) From: rone at ennui dot org (definitely what) Subject: Got my Road Journals CDs (finally) I came home from work today feeling like dog crap, but was cheered by the appearance of my copy of the Trey Gunn Band's Road Journals 2002. One glitch which is the kind of showstopper that shouldn't have left QA alive: no autorun.inf file, and the executable that launches the show is entitled "-start here (windows)". No .exe extension, thus it can't run. Oops. I copied the contents of the CD to the hard drive, renamed the file to start.exe, and then launched it. Christmas was saved! Included is the stuff found on Trey's roadjournals.com site, plus more videos and diaries, and a copy of "Fossil" from the Seattle show. It is a great song and i can't wait to hear it and the Tehachapi songs on a new TGB studio album (i'm hoping there will be one, after the KC 2003 tour is over). rone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 05:54:45 -0600 From: Jeff Leith Subject: Adrian Dylan In addition to Jones Crusher and City of Tiny Lights, Adrian provides some vocal stylings on Flakes, right after Frank says "Take it away, Bob..." -- probably Jeff possibly Cyndi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:51:26 -0500 From: rspeak Subject: Fripp's production An interview w/ Gabriel regarding RF's work on the second PG album. http://www.insidedenver.com/drmn/music/article/0,1299,DRMN_54_1578239,00.html "The second album was rushed, but it was partly because I was working with Robert Fripp. He said: 'Why do you need to take all this time? We can do an album in six weeks.' I said, 'Well, OK, I'm willing to give it a try.' "But the songs hadn't had enough time to mature. The arrangements were less interesting because there wasn't enough time to make them different or special. Of my solo records, it was therefore the least satisfying." In Sid Smith's diary post on 12/8/2002; "TCOL was marred by a woolly production and the sound of punches being pulled." Of all of the things that Fripp and Crimson do well, audiophile recordings are not one of them. Production wise ELP, Genesis, and Pink Floyd from the 70s were way ahead of the 70's Crim. And in the eighties the production gap grew even more. Compare Discipline to Yes 902whatever and the Polices Synchronicity, also compare Beat to Roxy Musics Avalon or Gabriels Security. Most critics rip Fripps production on Gabriels second album. And most agree Sylvians remix of Damage is better that Fripps. Even the Fripp/Sylvian studio album the first Day is a better production than tCoL. And this is not just my opinion, even Trey Gunn expressed concerns about the bass mix on tCoL. Have you heard any of Trent Reznors work or even Rob Zombies Hellbilly Deluxe or Bowies last couple. They are sonic masterpieces (even if you dont like the music). Fripp is not a "production" guy, he seems to prefer to capture the moment "as it is". Did you notice how little difference there is between the sound of the studio tracks and the live tracks on Red? (please, don't tell me that I need a $5000 system to hear how good they really are.) Of course they don't have the big budget some of the other bands do. In general Crimson is a good/great band in spite of their album productions and perhaps that is why they are so much better live than they are on album. There is no way that the Police or Yes could recreate their "studio sound" live. Perhaps it is the production that stops them from going (a little more)mainstream. I am hoping that "Power.." will be the exception. Bob (I do know that the music comes first) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:57:09 -0500 From: BARLETB at Nationwide dot com Subject: Zappa:Your High School music class! Yes ADE was the lead singer during his tenure with Zappa, (and played a mean guitar), He also wore the skirt during "Titties and Beer"! His singing on City of Tiny Lights is one of my favorite performances of his, as is Frame By Frame! Suggestions for the Zappa vid (which are supposed to be re-released in the future according to the FAQ, but how far INTO the future we never know) Would be "Baby Snakes" if you want to see Adrian, (and a great show to boot!) "Dub Room Special", shows the best parts of the '74 and '82 bands, which would be my 2nd choice. And "Does Humor Belong in Music" showcases the '84 band (and would be 3rd in the series of concert-type vids ) ALL are worth your time, but good luck finding them these days! Interesting that your high school music teacher would "pan" Crimson that way (as well as the Captain! SHAME!) If he's thrilling the class with his rendition of Nat, then he should be more than willing to expose them to "other" music. (as well as encourage them to experiment) God knows that the choices that most of the younger generation has to pick from are pretty lame! But then again, the old adage about "educators" is and will always be: "Those who can't do, TEACH, and those who can't teach become CRITICS". Don't relate that to your music teacher or you may be ejected! Kudos to you to try something different, and here's to hoping that at least ONE of your classmates comes to see you secretly and asks for a copy! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:59:56 -0000 From: Sandy Starr Subject: Wrong on Yes Andrew Thiermann wrote: >if you want to hear a band play the same kind of music year in and year >out go buy a Yes album. (oh, that was sort of harsh, but in my view true, >they don't change, they don't evolve, they stick to tried and true >methods to produce albums, fine that's their deal) This isn't quite accurate. The truth is that Yes are incompetently managed; that its members are constantly used as chess pieces by the management to try and find a configuration that will make bucks by appealing to the nostalgia crowd; that certain obstreperous band members (by no means all of them) contantly make it near-impossible for the band to function as a cohesive unit; that the band spent the 1990s being passed around shitty record labels who made unreasonable demands and then couldn't sell the product properly; and that the set list in EVERY 1990s/2000s Yes tour consisted of 'four tracks off the new album plus old stuff' - in other words, the band either failed to create, or failed to have sufficient confidence in, new touring repertoire. Given the talents of the various musicians in Yes, and given their past achievements, all of this is a tragedy of the highest order. Amazingly, in the face of all of these obstacles, they still manage to come up with the occasional piece of great music. King Crimson, I'll grant, is an object lesson in NOT slipping into the traps listed above. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:29:18 -0500 From: "Patrick Gaudin" Subject: Playing Scales I have begun, once again, to woodshed on the basic scales/theory as pertains to the guitar. A question I have to all of you pros who still engage in playing scales, or have vast experience of it in the past, what all do you try to focus on while executing the scale? I can list several things that are obvious, such as the pattern, the technique, the sound, and the rhythm. But I was also wondering if some of you also try to read along with the notes on the staff and try to keep each note in the scale in mind. Basically, how much music theory should go through your mind in addition to just robotically playing a pattern? Obviously as much as you possibly can, but I wanted to know from a pro, how much is practical to be thinking about whilst executing a scale? Patrick Gaudin Rochester, NY (presently) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:16:03 -0700 (MST) From: checkman Subject: Queen Crimson/"Take it away, Bob" "FS Info" wrote: > >Who will be the first female musician in King/Queen Crimson and when will it >happen? Technically, it's already happened. Paulina Lucas sang soprano on _Islands_. >In 1068, "The Necron Stratomailer" (I bet that's not your real name!) >wrote: "By the way, while we're at this... Am I very very wrong or is that >Ade singing on "City of Tiny Lives" from "Sheik Yerbouti"? After all, Frank >*did* recruit Adrian because he was a guitar-player/singer." He also did the Bob Dylan immitation in the middle of "Flakes" (great song -- "I asked them, `where's my motor?' `Well, it was eaten by snakes...' "). [Realizing that he is being redundant, the current author hastens to add:] Even funnier is the "Take it away, Bob!", because Belew's real name is Robert Steven Belew. Zappa originally found Belew, btw. -- Christopher "HeKcman" ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1071 *********************************