Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #107 D I S C I P L I N E The INTERNET newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 107, Friday, 17 September 1993 Today's Topics: Matte Kudasai revisited Last verse of Easy Money Sylvian/Fripp comments Lady of the Dancing Water Fripp and Orb found on CD: daryl hall's "sacred songs" Adrian Acoustic re: Steel Cathedrals Appropriate Artists what I meant to ask... Fripp/Bruford tension Eno board & other questions OREO Question Fripp's _Soundscape_ [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 10:02:32 -0500 From: crawford at nesteggs dot com (Michael E. Crawford) Subject: Matte kudasai revisited Here are the Anagrams for Matte Kudasai Tim's a-, a-, at Duke Mi sake, tu data It a mud steak Kate's a mad Tiu (look it up) U mistake data Ada? I take Tums I am a teak stud I made a Tut sak I remain skeptical of any contribution of real meaning contained therein. Michael Crawford nesteggs Houston [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 08:50:08 PDT From: "jay kuhn, cxo3-2/j4, 592-4608" Subject: Last verse of Easy Money Hello all, This is probably been discussed in a back issue so I apoligize if I am covering old ground again. I've been trying to work out the timing to the last verse of Easy Money. Is it me or are the instruments playing in different time? Its probably one of my favorite pieces of KC music. If you are casually listening to it, it doesn't sound complicated, but as you peel back the layers so to speak it gets more complicated. Has anyone ever seen this transcribed? Then I realized it reminded me of Pink Floyds Money. I wonder if Easy Money came out later and they are copying certain parts of Money. To me the production of the last verse (reverbs, delays, mix, electric piano) reminds me alot of money. Thank you. Jay Kuhn [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 13:48:12 -0500 From: nash at chem dot wisc dot edu (John R. Nash) Subject: Sylvian/Fripp comments I picked up the Sylvain/Fripp CD, and I thought I'd add some of my comments to those already given. Marotta vs. Bruford -- From the playing on this album, it seems that Marotta is a solid drummer who keeps a steady beat. The grooves laid down are fine, but they are too "unchanging" for my liking. Bruford, on the other hand, keeps time but plays with it as well, making the rhythm section more exciting and interesting to listen to. The "Discipline" album always struck me as a fine example of four musicians, each contributing to each song. I fear that Marotta might fall into the background in the new KC. It seems that one of Fripp's gripes about Bruford is that you always know he's there; personally, I like that about him. He'll never be known as "a guy who hangs around with musicians." Overall -- The album has some interesting ideas, but they never seem to get developed fully. Take "Darshan": this track runs over 11 minutes, giving ample opportunities for development and exploration of the musical ideas presented at the beginning of the piece. Instead, we get a virtually unchanging beat, an unchanging chord sequence, and repetition of the same lyrics, for the entire track. I started off liking the song, and ended up being sick of it, during my first listen. Compare this to "Thela Hun Ginjeet", which sticks to one basic groove, but expands and develops the music around it. The shorter songs are better (I don't have time to tire of the musical idea), and I'm happy to hear that a local station is playing "God's Monkey" from time to time. Fripp's playing is skillful, as expected, but not (to me) terribly interesting or adventurous. Sylvian vs. Belew -- Sylvian does indeed have a strong voice, and would probably fit just fine into the King Crimson sound. However, I'd much rather have Belew around, to stir things up. Adrian adds a certain quirkiness and element of the unexpected to King Crimson, through his lyrics, his delivery, and his playing. I don't know about Sylvian's stage presence, but it's hard to believe he would be as energetic and enthusiastic as the Belew I've seen. Perhaps Fripp and Sylvian (and Fripp and Marotta) are too similar. It's the complementing of musicians that makes KC great to me. Gunn -- I like the stick, and Gunn plays it very well. I'd still like to hear what kind of a rhythm section he and Bruford would make. I'm looking forward to hearing a band with a stick player and a bass player! Enough rambling! Just thought I'd add my two cents. "The First Day" is a solid album, but it left me a bit bored too quickly to be a great album. Sylvian/Fripp does not sound like "King Crimson" to me. ----------------------------------- John R. Nash nash at chem dot wisc dot edu ----------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 10 Sep 93 13:34:00 PST From: "Chris King" Subject: Lady of the Dancing Water I fiddled with my speaker system this morning and added a subwoofer. I then dove into my Crimson catalog to try it out. I didn't need the subwoofer for it, but the first track I went through was "Lady of the Dancing Water" from "Lizard" (where else?). It had been at least a year or so since I listened to that particular song and it sounded wonderful. Okay, maybe I'd turn down Bobby's acoustic just a pinch. Has anyone of you Crimheads sketched out the chords for "Lady". Would you post them? I'd post my chords of "Talk to the Wind" in trade. Yeah, the subwoofer is unnecessary there, but I was impressed with some of the live stuff from the Great Deceiver boxed set. I played through "Schizoid" from the Providence show and a bit of the the Apollo Glasgow Theatre show. Bru's bass drum shook my neighbors. Are there any other Subwoofer Showpieces that people would suggest? I think quickly of the bass drum on "Cadence and Cascade" and the bass guitar on "Book of Saturdays" and the drums on "Prince Rupert Awakes", but what else is there? A pleasant morning. I ran through Mahavishnu's "Dreams" from their live album and Holdsworth's "Secrets" C.D., also . . . . Best Wishes, Chris King [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: phv at equalizer dot cray dot com (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Fripp and Orb Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 14:14:40 PDT > What I want to know is what other people think of this > collaboration?! The Orb - masters of "ambient house" - having > both sides of dance music and music to explore, listen to and > space out to; working with Robert Fripp - guitarist > extraordinare, psychedelic music maestro (sorry for the > superlatives!). I think it will be an awesome album. Anyone else > have any confirmations, thoughts, or ideas on this collaboration? > > Anyone want to care to compare this to previous of Fripp's > collaborations? Well, as I said on a.m.p, if the result will sound anything like "Distributed Being" from _Nerve Net_, then I'd definitely be interested. A truly demonic guitar solo over Eno's techno grooves. Paolo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Mark Lewin Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 15:27:38 PDT Subject: found on CD: daryl hall's "sacred songs" dunno if this is old news or not: daryl hall's "sacred songs" has been issued on cd in japan. i bought a copy while in tokyo earlier this week. the lyrics are offered in both japanese and english, but album credits and any other info is in japanese only. cd has same tracks as the original album. on another tokyo note, the sylvain/fripp album was being heavily promoted at all record stores (wave, virgin, tower) and it looked like they were going to be touring japan soon. to accompany the cd release, two stores were displaying the entire sylvain/japan catalog (on sale). no similar showcasing of fripp-related stuff. mark [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: cuyahoga at aol dot com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 93 00:39:37 EDT Subject: Adrian Acoustic Hi all, I'm writing from the Philadelphia, PA area in the U.S.A. and I just heard about an acoustic Adrian Belew show at the Theatre of the Living Arts on October 2nd. Does anyone have any info on this, is this a one shot or a tour of some sort? Also... >The fact that Adrian didn't show up at the Crimson jam session (according to >Trey Gunn) makes me continue to wonder if Adrian truly wants to be a part of >the band >From what I understood, Adrian and Robert BOTH agreed that it was time for some new Crimson after Adrian mentioned it to Robert. I was always under the impression that Adrian was into it. We shall see... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 10:45:56 +1000 From: keens at pitvax dot xx dot rmit dot edu dot au Subject: re: Steel Cathedrals Probably one of many explanations, but In 1985, before/around his collaborations with Holgar Czuckay (plight and premonition, flux and mutability) David Sylvian produced a short film called Steel Cathedrals. Also a 12" single called 'Words with the shaman'. The soundtrack for the movie and 'Words' (plus preparation for a journey) were initially released together on a limited edition cassette, then on vinyl (i think) and no limited cassette - Alchemy - An Index of Possibilities. One side is steel cathedrals (15 - 20 minutes I think - never timed it) - sylvian, sakamoto, jansen, wheeler, fripp, czukay and tsuchiya play on it. To my knowledge it has never made it to cd - a much edited version is on the weatherbox set (from my brief look at the booklet - box set prices over here (australia) are ridiculous - $140 for the great deceiver, way beyond budget). Anyway, its an excellent, ambient noodling piece in the same vein as the other instrumentals of the time. The First Day is great - it make me wish for the money to buy TGD so that I can get more of that LarksTongue crimson - as others have noted, the music on here owes alot to that period. On th radio this morning they played the nightwatch from TGD - that must rank high in anyone's books as the sweetest melancholist melody that crimson havewrote/performed. A beautiful piece. Time for a favourite song poll?? jeremy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 12 Sep 93 20:25:30 -0600 From: dalton at isidis dot colorado dot edu (lizard man) Subject: Appropriate Artists I've been noticing the blurb at the top of Discipline that bills this forum as being for Robert Fripp enthusiasts. I was under the impression that this was a forum for King Crimson enthusiasts, and although I would certainly consider myself a Fripp enthusiast, I am also a Bruford enthusiast, a Levin enthusiast, a Belew enthusiast, a Mel Collins enthusiast, a Wetton enthusiast, and even a Greg Lake enthusiast. Since I still see all of the above mentioned from time to time, can we get the blurb changed? Please, Toby? :-) [[ Yes, that's a good comment. -- Toby ]] Oh, and since i am also an Eno enthusiast, I thought i'd mention that as long as we remain sensible about it, I think discussion of Eno in this forum should not be considered out of bounds. I mean, i'm not going to rave on and on about how well he produced the latest U2 album, but since many of his projects have involved crossover with members of Crimson (Like David Byrne's Catherine Wheel soundtrack with Eno, Belew and a host of other talents, etc.) I think it's ok to mention him. But i think there's enough interest that a separate Eno list is a good idea. Anybody wanna do it? (Dave Craig, maybe? :-) I also think that other projects (Wetton-->Asia-->Steve Howe; Roxy Music; Levin --> Gabriel; Bruford, Levin --> Kazumi Watanabe; Belew --> Byrne --> King's lead hat (heh heh)) are appropriate. So is this a forum for Fripp or Crimson enthusiasts...? --lizard man BTW, keep up the great discussion of the Fripp <--> Bruford rift. I have been learning a lot from the comments so far. Like what happened to Sleepless. No wonder it's such a letdown for a Bruford fan...it's not Bruford! Best of luck to him and Allan. Maybe they'll actually get paid again someday for making music of integrity! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 09:47:15 CDT From: oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com Subject: what I meant to ask... Hello everyone, After re-reading my post and listening to Discipline, what my followup question on Thela Hun Ginjeet is really: what are the first two words of the *verse* of THG? Have a nice day, david [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 13 Sep 1993 11:14:06 -0500 From: MOONLIT KNIGHT Subject: Fripp/Bruford tension A brief comment on a extensively discussed topic. Bruford once said that one of the things you really learn about yourself as you progress as a musician and that he dsicovered about the same time he started with KC was that your style of playing is a direct expression of your personality. Jamie Muir supposedly taught him this. Although in those 1984 Musician articles, Bruford characterized the problem as being that he was being thrust into the role of timekeeper, Fripp said soemthing different. He said he didn't insist BB play a simple, regular beat -- he complained that Bill's drumming disturbed his own personal rhythm. Now you may want to issue Fripp a criticism by saying that it amounts to the same thing, but that's not the point. The point is that musicial and personal types of tension are impossible to distinguish from one another. Perhaps Fripp does need someone who is not so all-over-the-place as Bruford to function, although that's not the worst thing in the world. Bill is my favorite drummer in these circumstances, but Jerry Marotta's playing on S/F is quite good, much better than SAOTW. It is not necessarily the job of the drummer to be all over the place. It's something of a compromise. You may not alwyas agree with Fripp, but he does alot of work for the band and its catalog. Those of you not on the Yes list might be interested to know that Bill is going for Earthworks funding not only through the Holdsworth project but also through a Yes orchestral album and tour. Hey ... Rod Morgenstein plays in Winger for money... Finally, as the poster of the note on Gabriel's accident, I should say everyone was fine, there were only roadies on the bus, only the driver was hurt badly, and Peter did a very nice thank you to recuers and injured folks at the end of the show. Jeff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 12:51:15 -0400 (EDT) From: MCGLINCJ at bcvms dot bc dot edu Subject: Eno board & other questions Does anyone know if there exists a Brian Eno and/or Roxy Music server? I'm trying to locate one--if anyone has any information about this, I would greatly appreciate it... By the way, I loved Tony Levin's track on the "Plus From US" album. Does he ever intend to record a solo album? I think it would be pretty awesome, based on what I heard. WoW! Fripp and the Orb recorded an album together?!?!?! That's the first I've ever heard of such a collaboration. I think that would be pretty strange (not that Robert Fripp is pretty strange or anything!) :):) Joe McGlinchey Boston College [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 12:29:24 PDT From: "John M. Relph" Subject: OREO Question I'm trying to get more information for the Fripp/Crimso discography. Does anybody have more information for the following OREOs? Thanks, -- John KING CRIMSON The Mince (Rainbow, London 1973) 2 CD Get Thy Bearings (U.K. live & BBC 1969) 2 CD Songs For Europe (Amsterdam '73 & BBC '69) Live Orpheum Theater (Boston '73) Circus 1971 (live Academy Of Music, N.Y.) 21st Century Schizoid Man (Amsterdam 1973) Black Bible (Toronto 1974) Lament (Amsterdam 11/1973) Great Dane Atlanta 1973/Pittsburg 1975 Return Of The Crimson King (Frankfurt 1973) [[ If you, like me, haven't come across the term 'OREO' before, here is what John says:"FYI, OREO is a wordplay on ROIO, which stands for Recording Of Illegitimate (or Indeterminate or Illegal) Origin. Used as a substitute for the "shoe" word, which some people don't like to use on the NET. I think the origin is from the Echoes Pink Floyd mailing list." -- Toby ]] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 13 Sep 93 11:58:43 PDT From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Fripp's _Soundscape_ Has anybody out in Disciplineland heard the Robert Fripp _Soundscape_ OREO? Is it good quality? Worth $25? Who plays? Is it with Sylvian or the Quintet? Waiting to hear from you. -- John [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.