Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1062 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1062 Friday, 29 November 2002 Today's Topics: 21CSB Official Bootleg Giles, Giles & Fripp Adrian Belew sits in with the Les Claypool Frog Brigade King Crimson on Broadway 1995 Re: Herbie Hancock Re: comparing to EXPOSURE? future DVD releases King Crimson/Marillian collectors clubs Re: crimtoos Rock taken seriously Larks' Tongues/Hot Potatoes shoganai=happy? HC video - a cry fo help Re: KC Pop Songs - 2CD Greatest Hits for the Xmas Market, Bob Re: Ladies of the Road The Kinks' "Muswell Hillbilly" period Re: Missing Title Tracks ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:22:03 -0500 From: "Jack Bross" Subject: 21CSB Official Bootleg I just got my copy of this through Burningshed, and I'm very glad to have it. Thanks so much to Burningshed for making it available to us Americans. The tracks are: A Man A City; Catfood; ITCOTCK; Formentera Lady; Ladies of the Road; I Talk to the Wind; Schizoid Man. Highlights for me include: Catfood -- this version is as good as the original, with some interesting differences. In particular, it was good to hear Ian M's take on the piano parts. Formentera Lady and I Talk to the Wind -- Both of these show the more laid back side of KC, and in many ways sound better than the studio recordings. I particularly prefer FL here to the recording on Islands. The flute solo in Court is great. Michael Giles' drumming throughout, particularly on Schizoid Man. The times when Mel Collins plays down-and-dirty sax parts ("con molto porno"). My few reservations: In general, the recording doesn't have quite the energy level that a real live performance (in front of an audience, instead of live in studio) would probably have. In particular, Man/City doesn't really drive as hard as it could. I'd really like to hear an actual bootleg of one of their shows from the summer for comparison. Also (possibly related), Peter Giles isn't very prominent in the mix. He's doing good stuff, but unless you are listening carefully it can glide past. BTW, yes Jakko can both handle the RF guitar parts nicely and do a good job on vocals. I think he's a better vocalist than Boz, for example. Between his vocals and the recording quality, the lyrics are clearer on many songs than they have been before (you'll really hear every word of Catfood and Schizoid Man, for instance). And for a good sample of how Jakko can both emulate RF when necessary and also make a part his own, listen to Ladies of the Road, where he nails the spiky little opening, but brings a different feel to the verses. -- Jack Bross ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:10:18 -0000 From: "McClure, Kevin" Subject: Giles, Giles & Fripp Are there plans to re-release The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp on CD? Having been captivated by the Brondesbury tapes for some months now I am rather frustrated at not being able to get The Cheerful Insanity... Please could efforts be made to restore this album to the available catalogue. Please assure Mr Fripp that this preoccupation with the past of KC does not reduce my appreciation of any current or future developments in the groups expressive outpourings. I only wish that he did not have to spend so much time on all the peripheral activity, such as litigation with record companies, and be allowed to devote more time to creative activities. I am also keen to obtain CD copies of the two albums Robert Fripp recorded with Andy Summers. Will these be available in the near future? I am eagerly awaiting The Power to Believe, my appetite having been thoroughly whetted by Happy With What You Have ... Keep on making that wonderful noise Any chance of coming to Scotland? Edinburgh would be great but Glasgow, Dundee or Perth would do too All The Best Kevin McClure ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:59:20 -0800 From: David Lefkowitz
Subject: Adrian Belew sits in with the Les Claypool Frog Brigade Tuesday night at the Newport Music Hall in Columbus, Ohio, Les Claypool and his band the Frog Brigade were joined onstage for the first time by one of Les' heroes and musical inspirations, guitarist and singer Adrian Belew of King Crimson. The Frogs have been performing Crimson's "Thela Hun Ginjeet" (originally on KC's "Discipline" album in 1981) since the band's inception two years ago. Recorded performances are included on their "Live Frogs-Set 1" from last year, and their opening of the recent "Bonnaroo DVD" as well. Belew appeared on stage after the third song of the set, dressed in red footsie pajamas with dinosaurs on it, and a silver pith helmet with frontal rhino horn, as the band launched into "Thela." He hung for four more tunes in the set, including three from Claypool's 1996 release "Les Claypool and the Holy Mackerel-Highball With the Devil," including "Highball," "Holy Mackerel," and "Calling Kyle." He played on "D's Diner" from the new cd "purple Onion" as well. Adrian came back out for the encore of the Beatles' "Taxman" to end the show. Adrian Belew's career began with Frank Zappa, and he went on to play with David Bowie and early 80's Talking Heads (alongside recent Claypool collaborator Bernie Worrell). He joined Robert Fripp in the revamped King Crimson starting in 1981. His other many studio credits include work with Paul Simon, Laurie Anderson, Joan Armatrading, Bela Fleck, Herbie Hancock, Cyndi Lauper, Nine Inch Nails, and Robert Palmer among others. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:04:12 EST From: Pat6915 at cs dot com Subject: King Crimson on Broadway 1995 I just wanted to say that November 22, 1995 at the Longacre Theater was the greatest concert experience of my life. This was my first Crimson show. I only became a fan that year being introduced to the band by my friend Bruce. Since then I've seen Adrian's solo show twice, the Tony Levin Band once, Projekct Two, and Crimson in 2000 at Town Hall, NYC. No other show was ever as great as that night. Thanks, Pat Sullivan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:17:47 EST From: NajiBaji at aol dot com Subject: Re: Herbie Hancock Hi all: Could not believe what I was reading in ET 1059 from the poster flaming Herbie Hancock and company and dismissing them as "atonal racket"! Let us do the "begats" if may suggest. Miles Davis hired Mr. Hancock as an integral part of his second quintet. The highly related impov unit fuel on heavy doses of ESP. This music begat fusion Bitches brew, from whence came McGlauglin-Mahavishnu Orchestra- FROM WHENCE CAME LARK'S TONGUES in ASPIC- highly experimental work in techno, which with ("Rockit" began a whole genre.) and I speak about the wonderful drumming from the late Tony Williams Mr. Fripp is quoted as admiring, the jazz improv and thunderous funk of Billy Cobham (clearly on the same course with Zappa-who begat Belew. And let us not forget absolute beauty found in the music of Keith Jarrett. Mr. Hancock has put out a wonderful tribute to the music of Miles Davis and John Coltrane called "Directions in music." Calling this music "atonal racket" is, well absolutely insane. Perhaps the poster should have kicked in his "telly." Perhaps the sound was not working right. Or pay a visit to his local hearing specialist to have his ears checked. It is absolutely illogical to be a fan of Crimson's improv, without having respect for the ground breaking musical creativity of Mr. Hancock and his partners. Dismissing the music of Davis and Cortland while being a Crimson fan is way over the edge. Without this "atonal racket" as he puts, there would be no King Crimson. Period. I dare say that I would be hard pressed to find anything dismissive said by any member of King Crimson at any time during their history about the music of Herbie Hancock. Most musicians would kill to have his fingers. I rest my case. The poster, I am sure, will be found guilty of musical insanity. [ Now, now. Let's be nice, please. --Toby ] Dave Meshowski ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:05:21 -0600 From: vdorje at ev1 dot net Subject: Re: comparing to EXPOSURE? >For those taken aback by the songs on HWWYHTBHW, get out your copy of >Robert Fripp's EXPOSURE (paying special attention to Chicago, Disengage, >North Star), then try listening to the new one. I LOVE "Exposure". It contains superb "avant-pop" music that works on every level. (Also fantastic is the consistently over-looked League of Gentlemen, who were doing some of the finest music around at the time. Why don`t we hear more adulation over them?),.... but (after 4 or 5 listens to "Happy"), I find it to be the most disappointing Krimso release I`ve ever experience. I find it has no appeal whatsoever. (Even the gratuitous LTiA Pt4 was not necessary. Is Pt 10 on the way? .... Pt 20?) Krimson used to be such a truly avant rock band. Always at the vanguard..... Always surprisingly delightful......... What happened? Reading that recent Eno interview in which he mentions again working soon w/ King Fripp, was very exciting/encouraging. Particularly his stating that Fripp is now very much into African percussion. A delightful surprise! .......and one that holds tremendous hope for the future. ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:07:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Kevin Marriott Subject: future DVD releases Given Discipline's new more commercially oriented approach (that's the way I see it anyway), what with the DVDs of the 80s videos and Ladies of the Road, wouldn't it be a cool idea if they released a DVD compilation of 70s appearances? I know there is the Beat Club performance, another TV performance from 73 with Starless, and two or three song clip of a New York concert from 73. Maybe there exists even more than this. The bonus material could be the short B&W Hyde Park footage with sound dubbed from Club 12. I guess copyright would be a problem, though. As a KC fan, that would be something I wouldn't hesitate to cough up my hard earned cash for. I reckon fans of the earler stuff who aren't into the current band would be more into this too. -- Kev ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:00:03 -0000 From: Sandy Starr Subject: King Crimson/Marillian collectors clubs Has anyone else noticed that Marillion's collectors club is modelled almost exactly on King Crimson's? See: http://www.marillion.com/frontrow/join.html In addition to the opt-out format, they also use Fripp-like blurbs: 'The principles of this collectors' club are simplicity and fairness, assuming goodwill between Marillion and Front Row Club members. We welcome informed appraisal, critical commentary, and impartial scepticism, subject to the operations of courtesy and common decency.' And they have band audio ratings! None of which is a bad thing. As the first band ever to issue a major studio album entirely funded by pre-ordering fans (and then they licensed the album back to EMI, the label that previously dropped them - sweet), Marillion are doing their bit to innovate revenue models and bring fantastic new music into the world. If you're not familiar with Marillion, or if you associate them with their 80s phase of commercial success when their lead singer was Fish (which was great in its way, but like King Crimson, they've moved on), I recommend their recent material wholeheartedly. They've even got a dead cheap 'crash course' sampler CD for the uninitiated, which you can buy at: http://www.marillion.com/discog/crash/index.html On a different subject, I recently took disc 3 of Heavy ConstruKction out of mothballs and gave it a spin. I really love this disc - the improvs stand alone as great compositions, full of unusual moods and tones. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 09:51:09 -0500 From: Brian Rupert Subject: Re: crimtoos I actually have the celtic knot from Discipline tatooed on my right shoulder blade. I personally love tatoos. Why did I choose the image from Discipline? There are a few reasons. I love celtic knots for one thing (they remind me of puzzles), and it was the first KC album I bought. It also doesn't have to only represent King Crimson...people who don't know Crimson would never know it for anything other than a knot and would interpret it as some other symbology. For my second tat (which I haven't got yet) I have considered the sun and moon pair from Lark's Tongues... The tatoo took over 2 hours to complete. The first hour wasn't painful but the second hour was. The person that did mine was very good and I was very happy with the results. My recommendation would be to research tatoo artists in your area before committing to make sure they are good at what they do and that they practice safe tatooing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:51:13 -0300 From: "The Necron Stratomailer" Subject: Rock taken seriously >Does anyone have anything interesting to say about people who treat prog >as though it were classical music? Such thing exists? Hmmm. Interesting. There is some prog rock out there which could be compared to classical music in terms of structure, composition, etc: Quite a bit of Yes, some ELP... certainly a LOT of KC. So I wouldn't find it as "annoying" as you do. >MUSIQUE CONCRETE was mentioned - apparently a fancy name for music with >noises in it. Now, this is *my* opinion: While you could say that, using noises in music results, in essence, in... well, music *with* noises, I think the final effect is a lot more transcendental than having someone hitting pots, glasses and tupperware while you listen to your stereo. >It is quite annoying when people talk about rock music seriously. I am >sure the reason it was invented was to NOT be taken seriously. 3 things: 1) Most ET readers seem to agree on how bands (rock bands or otherwise) MUST progress. I think they will agree on how the music (rock or otherwise) MUST be taken seriously for it to progress. 2) Where does your comment leave KC? While they are a great band (amazing maybe), they are not fun to listen to. They are enjoyable, maybe we can say that they give the listener "lots of pleasure", but they aren't really fun. Just like eating pizza, or drinking a glass of water. Not that they're boring - They are just not fun (they are serious; but very good, enjoyable, and pleasing to listen to). And if you're about to say something about Adrian Belew's humoristic lyrics: Yes, those are fun. But they are not the base of KC's music. 3) What is the big deal about taking it seriously? Why can't rock music be meaningful? Well then, later. Luis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:49:37 +0000 From: "Dave Allen" Subject: Larks' Tongues/Hot Potatoes no, no, no, no, NO, NO, NO!!!! I've got it now! The perfect compliment to KC's Larks' Tongues in Aspic, is The Kinks "Hot Potatoes"!! ("Everybody's in Show-biz" is a fabulous album to get drunk alone to!!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:00:56 -0800 (PST) From: "J.R. Gattiker" Subject: shoganai=happy? My PC tells me my "Happy" CD is named "Shoganai" (actually, whatever database Real Player uses tells me that). Is the Japanese disc "Shoganai" identical to "Happy"? (obviously the paper is different...) I see that "sho ga nai" apparently translates as "there is no other way", with the idiomatic meaning like "what will be will be" or "it can't be changed/helped". Maybe that sheds light on how to interpret "happy to have what you have to be happy with". A thread was talking about two ways to take it - I think both "have"s are as "possess", rather than the "have to" being as "must". jim~bo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:19:04 +0100 From: xavery Subject: HC video - a cry fo help I am faced with a serious problem regarding Heavy Construkction video. I do not have the necessary codec ie. Voxware Metasound. And my WMP both (7.1 and 9) could not download it for me. Of course finding this codec is impossible - there are all others but this one. Anyone who has any suggestions or some codecs package is kindly requested to contact me privately. Thanks in advance, xavery ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:04:55 +0000 From: "David Reilly" Subject: Re: KC Pop Songs - 2CD Greatest Hits for the Xmas Market, Bob Thanks to Wafo for his/her list of possible KC singles. I've expanded to the usual 2CD set for this project and set out below my track list (sorry had to exclude "talk to the wind" and "people" from Wafo's list) - with judicious editing and utilization of some abridged versions as noted, you can get this on to 2 80 minute CDs - happy compiling:- CD One 1969 - 1974 Epitaph (from Young Person i.e. stand alone rather than with bleed-in from Talk to the Wind) 21st Century Schizoid Man (CD Single edit) In The Court Of The Crimson King (Cd Single edit) Cat Food (From Young Person) Cadence And Cascade (From Young Person) Cirkus Indoor Games Ladies Of The Road Book Of Saturday Easy Money (10 sec fade out) The Great Deceiver (5 sec fade out) The Night Watch Fallen Angel One More Red Nightmare Starless (abridged version from Sleepless) CD Two 1981 - 1984; 1995; 2000 - 2002 Elephant Talk (CD Single version) Frame By Frame Matte Kudesai Indiscipline Heartbeat (Cd Single version) Three Of A Perfect Pair Sleepless (album track not remix) Vrooom (from Vrooom) Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream (from Vrooom) One Time(from Vrooom) Dinosaur Walking On Air Into The Frying Pan I Have A Dream Dangerous Curves (editing out chat and laughter at start - around 2 mins in then 10 sec fade up) Eyes Wide Open Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With Note - CD Single versions are taken from "Heartbeat" the abbreviated King Crimson and from the "Schizoid Man" CD Single. everyone loves a list!! np : King Crimson - Singles (Disc Two) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:33:36 +0000 From: "Dave Allen" Subject: Re: Ladies of the Road Has RF or DGM in any way misrepresented this release? I've got a couple KCCC releases from this period of the band and I have no intention of buying "Ladies of the Road". I don't really understand why anyone with the KCCC releases would, unless they're collectors that want the Zoom club stuff and re-edits. But to buy it and complain about it? Come on! From what I've read about "Ladies of the Road", it sounds like a decent enough release for someone who doesn't have the KCCC releases and doesn't intend on getting them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 04:46:31 +0000 From: "Dave Allen" Subject: The Kinks' "Muswell Hillbilly" period Heylow, I just left a post about the "Muswell Hillbilly" Kinks' period in the last newsletter or orther. Just wondering if there was any other ET posters out there from Canada? I was thinking about how "Canadian" the Kinks' "Muswell Hillbillies" is (AND ABOUT HOW CRIMSON-RELATED THEY [/we/this] ARE!!??!)! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 03:13:26 -0500 From: Sylvan Subject: Re: Missing Title Tracks Phil wrote: > By the way, isn't it curious that Ladies Of The Road is not on Ladies Of The > Road? ...and Cirkus is not on Cirkus, Neal and Jack and Me is not on Absent Lovers, Heavy ConstruKction is not on Heavy ConstruKction... I asssume it's just another little symptom of Fripp being completely insane. -- Sylvan http://www.webcomics.org "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1062 *********************************