Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1059 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1059 Monday, 18 November 2002 Today's Topics: Review of KING CRIMSON at Volcanic-Rock.com Re: Soft Machine cRIMSON dOWNUNDER King Crimson Tattoos Dream Theater Re: Test Runs Fripp and Eno Fripp's "Breathless" Improv Re: 'Happy With...'/ Re: THE SOFT MACHINE Ladies of the road: this time Fripp has gone too far! A MUST READ DIATRIBE King Crimson Singles Compilation CD Earnest Bespectacled Young Men SHOGANAI "T.B.A" release by Crimson deja HEAVY CONSTUkCTION There are a question and a wish. KCCC videos/DVDs ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:10:29 -1000 From: "Rachelle" Subject: Review of KING CRIMSON at Volcanic-Rock.com HI! We would like to advise you that there is a review of King Crimson - Ladies Of The Road at http://www.volcanic-rock.com. Thanks! Rachelle Olson http://www.volcanic-rock.com/ Please send promo info to: Volcanic-Rock.com 129A Lanakila Pl. Kihei, HI 96753 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:40:44 -0800 From: "Bruce Hollihan" Subject: Re: Soft Machine Hello I appreciate this kind of posting, especially when I've been listening to nothing but King Crimson & Soft Machine for the last 2 weeks. I appreciate the comparisons & contrasts below. Others that I can volunteer: 1. Numerous line-up changes. 2. Fans who are only into certain albums. 3. A new sound created by a combination of being well-schooled musically, and select usage of effects (especially Fripp & Ratledge). 4. They shared certain musicians: Marc Charig et al. That's it for now. > Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 21:58:22 +0000 > From: "Dave Allen" > Subject: Soft Machine > > I've often felt Soft Machine complimented KC perfectly (esp. '72-'74 KC). > SM's "softness" vs. KC's hardness; SM's fondness for "drop a beat" time > signatures (7/8, 11/8) vs. KC's emphasis on "add a beat" 5/8 [although both > bands use a great variety of odd time signatures (and simultaneous > combinations thereof), I'm just referring to their respective tendencies]. > I can't think of any other reasons why, but when I've been listening to a > lot of KC, nothing sounds better than SM. > > ...they also make for great driving music! ---- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:25:28 +1100 From: "Peter Allen" Subject: cRIMSON dOWNUNDER > Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:36:40 +1100 > From: orlando_jk at optusnet dot com dot au > > Can Someone please tell me if CK have ever toured Australia? They haven't ! > I can't > seem to find any records of it happenning and I've heard the cost of > touring for the group is very expensive. That's what the band always says. Too much equipment - too much expense. But the Aussie dollar is so low there's not likely to be a better time than now from the band's point of view. >All this aside I would love > to see them live if they ever came here (maybe the happy tour?). > Ditto, with enthusiasm! And I know many people not on this list who would go too. This topic comes up regularly, but I don't see why it shouldn't be repeated as often as we can. We can't be worse off :-( All stay-at-home Australians have never heard the band live, the way Mr Fripp himself says we should optimally hear them. May we not have at least one chance in our pathetic audiental lifetimes? And a Japan visit is often used by other bands as a good opportunity to tour Australia as well, so next year is appropriate since KC is there mid-April. Just about everyone else seems to be touring here from December to April (even Yes in February!) - how about King Crimson as well !!! Peter Dr Peter Allen (pda at melbpc dot org dot au) Melbourne PC User Group ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:57:26 EST From: NajiBaji at aol dot com Subject: King Crimson Tattoos Howdy: Any Eters out there who have Crim- related tattoos.(CRIMTOOS?) Just daydreaming aloud at this point, but I would love to hear what you have, where the work was done and your experience. Personally, The LTIA Sun/Moon cover has its own and would look cool. Also, are any of the cover art pieces, or related work by the artists available as prints or in art books? Dave Meshowski ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 06:56:53 -0500 From: "Neil Wicker" Subject: Dream Theater There has been quite a bit of Dream Theater bashing going on here lately, so I thought I would chime in. I bought Images & Words back in '92 when it came out and was impressed. They could sing, play their instruments well and had an ear for melody. I didn't like Awake at first, but got into it more several years later. So I've bought every DT CD released the first day it was out since buying these two and I've really loved the band. I recently saw them in Atlanta touring with Joe Satriani and King's X and thought they were a horrible live band. They could clearly play what they were supposed to, but the sound was poorly mixed and WAY too loud for the venue. Jordan Rudess could barely be heard at times and James LaBrie was so distorted that he was unintelligible. I still like the stduio stuff, but don't see them live. Cheers Neil W. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 08:36:57 -0500 From: "Jack Bross" Subject: Re: Test Runs Jordan Clifford noted: >But I was listening to Zoom, the >first lengthy improv on the disc and for the first time I noticed that >parts of it sound an awful like parts of Lament. Yeah. In particular, the faster, angry sounding bit from near the end of Lament is previewed in Zoom. Notice, BTW, that the track is listed as "Zoom", not "Improv: Zoom" (whereas the improvs on the album are generally listed as "Improv: Zoom Zoom" etc.). This makes me wonder how much of Zoom is improvized, and how much is planned. It certainly sounds largely improvizational, but it may have certain composed sections (including the pre-Lament excerpts) with improvizational sections as well. -- Jack Bross ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 09:05:38 -0500 From: "Luden" Subject: Fripp and Eno Fripp and Eno fans there is an interview with Brian Eno at http://www.capp.gr/newsArchives/newPages/BrianEno.htm where Mr. Eno talks about him And Mr. Fripp working together again. When asked "are you going to work again with Robert Fripp ?" "Yes", he says in calm, "he is very much into percussion now and he is experimenting with them. I guess this will sound more like African music. I'm a big fan of African music". I for one can't wait until I hear this new music. Eno also says they plan on recording. I was wondering if anyone else knows anything more on this? Luden ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:08:08 -0600 From: Christian Hess Subject: Fripp's "Breathless" I'm tuned into ProgrRadio.com as I read today's E.T., and they just played "Breathless", an instrumental piece by Robert Fripp. I'd like to know which album does it come in, and who does the extremely nice bass work. Thanks, (Wow, now it's UK's "Presto Vivace and Reprise", with Wetton and Bruford. How appropriate! :-) Christian Hess San Jose, Costa Rica MusicaProgresiva.com (www.musicaprogresiva.com): rock progresivo y sinfonico ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:27:44 +0000 From: Mr Tea Subject: Improv Did anybody catch the Herbie Hancock 'music of Davis and Coltrane' set that aired on BBC 4 (UK digital TV channel) on Nov 15. Ol' Herb had gathered the cream of contemporary jazz players around him and the whole thing was introduced by Courtney Pine in tones of breatheless anticipation... And what a crock o' shite. The ghastly, atonal racket they were making was so irritating that I almost kicked the telly in. Thank heavens KC's brand of improv is not like that. Regards Mr Tea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:10:43 -0800 From: "Hoang Le" Subject: Re: 'Happy With...'/ Sandy Starr wrote: >The title track is fantastic. The lyrics are hilarious, and the chorus (the >proper chorus, not the 'We're going to have to have a chorus' pre-chorus) >is clearly adapted from one of the passages in Larks Tongues IV. I would say it dates all the way back to LTiA pt I, as a permutation of the first heavy riff in that song. nic ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:09:53 -0600 From: CRAIG Subject: Re: THE SOFT MACHINE > Can anyone recommend one or two Soft Machine discs that represent their best >work? No. ... Not one or two,... but four........ Depends on where you`re 'coming from',of course, but ALL of the below are absolute essential, IMO. SOFT MACHINE- The Soft Machine (1968) (From their Hendrix tour period. "Thank you, Jim,... for our exposure to the crowd").This was my intro to the band, & I was hooked from then on. Their most overtly psychedelic album, with Robert Wyatt`s wonderful vocals most predominant, (Kevin Ayers sings "Why Are We Sleeping"). A tremendous leap forward from their formative/charming Gomelsky singles/demos period, when they were performing regularly w/ PINK FLOYD at the UFO Club. They had begun linking their tunes into 'suites' which segued into one another, (to avoid hearing the vocal derision of some non-appreciative audients). 8^D SOFT MACHINE- Vol 2 (1969) .............(Start here, or with THIRD) Another quantum leap. ( Mind-boggling landmark recording that`s influenced more "progressive rock" than you can shake a stick at. Especially for it`s extensive use of odd meters. Easily every bit as important as Krimson`s-"ItCotCK" from the same year). Features Hugh Hopper`s fuzz bass, Ratledge`s incredible Lowrey organ sound, Wyatt`s wonderful vocals AND his incredible drumming in all sorts of odd time signatures, & not to forget Brian Hopper`s sax arrangements/playing which collectively puts this record on the highest pedastal. Desert island stuff, (you know). SOFT MACHINE- THIRD (1970)...***GODHEAD!**** Masterpiece if there ever was one. If you *have* to get just one. Make it this one,............. (and Vol 2). ;^) .... 4 epic tracks/primarily instrumental (except for Robert`s wonderful vocal parts on his "Moon in June"). ..... They added members of Elton Dean`s group Just Us at this point, so superb 'horn' arrangements. Some very strong saxes & saxello,trombone, etc.. w/ Lyn Dobson (later w/ THIRD EAR BAND), & Mark Charig/Nick Evans (King Crimson -"LIZARD"). 1)First is the quintessential live Hopper piece ("Facelift"). The rather lackluster recording quality of this particular track cannot diminish it`s incredible power. Astonishing! A diamond. 2)"Slightly All the Time".... is a great, jazzy Ratledge composition 3) "Moon in June" is the classic Wyatt piece (upon which he plays all the instruments up until the part where the organ solo kicks in). Then he`s joined by his bandmates, & adds some very freaky processed violin of Rab Spall to the melange), so there is still a psychedelic element to this release. 4) "Out-Bloody-Rageous" (A Ratledge tune which was *very* heavily influenced by Terry Riley`s "The Gift" period. Repetitive organ & piano figures looped/run backwards used as intos/outros to another strong Softs work. As with "Facelift" it has fantastic horn arrangements. .........THIRD is available as a double LP w/ one track per side , or a single CD SOFT MACHINE- Fourth (1971) Another monster! Even more of a 'jazz' focus. For me, this is almost on the same level as THIRD & Vol 2, but has no Wyatt vocals (it`s all instrumental), so is lacking in that respect. Aside from that, they`ve added (soon to be member) Roy Babbington (OVARY LODGE, whose S/T LP was BTW, produced by King Fripp) on double bass. I`ve been a Softs acolyte since 1968, & still listen to ALL of the above on a regular basis. They`re ALL absolute must haves. Later, as original members all left, they morphed into a more straight-ahead fusion band, (but many of those albums are also well worth investigating). Hope that helps, ~Craig ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:37:40 +0000 From: "Donovan Mayne-Nicholls" Subject: Ladies of the road: this time Fripp has gone too far! A MUST READ DIATRIBE All right, Mr. Fripp wants to include only a snippet from "The Court of the Crimson King" but listing the song on the album is a mockery to buyers. Otherwise we get a risiculously short release. There was enough space for an unedited "Formentera" and at least two other tracks on disc one. Disc 2 may be applauded by some but I'm sure after a while not even the bravest Crimhead will stomach to listen to the whole thing. The release is also a mockery to people who joined the collector's club for material that wouldn't be released otherwise. Doesn't Fripp realise there's no longer a wide market for Crimson and by overlapping material on alternate releases he's actually LOSING POTENTIAL SALES (this should appeal to his pocket). LADIES should have been an entire disc's worth of Zoom Club (I'm guessing "Bearings" has to be from that show, so the sound is up to scratch) and a second disc from either Orlando or Peoria. Fripp postponed this release for quite a while. It was proposed for 1998 on the ABSENT LOVERS booklet and delayed in the name of things such as CIRKUS (totally useless and a bad song selection as well) and when we finally get it, it doesn't even credit the sources for the performances. Ironically, I enjoyed the little available material much more than, say, EPITAPH. For Fripp, that line-up was worth repaeting virtually the same repertoire on two discs. Fripp should take notice of ELP's bootleg series. I'm sure there can't be that many professionally recorded performances from KC between '69 and '74. Also, I wouldn't have started releasing bootleg quality tapes until all existing official recordings had been released. Funny how in the seventies he was so meticulous about what to release and now he deemed volumes 3 and 4 from EPITAPH to have preference over EARTHBOUND for a good half a decade. My record dealer summed it up in one sentence: "he needs cash". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:59:28 +0000 From: "David Reilly" Subject: King Crimson Singles Compilation CD I was interested to read that one poster, whose name eludes me I'm afraid, suggested that every KC album (except Lizard) had a potential single. Can they post what those potential singles are? I often make up KC compilation CDs - one of my favourites is "The Dream and the Illusion" compiled in July 98 - I attempted to have one track from every release then available and split the 2 CD set into instrumental and song. CD One (Instrumental) Entry of the Crims (Absent Lovers) The Law Of Maximum Distress pt 2 (The Great Deceiver) The Sailor's Tale (Islands) When I Sat Stop Continue (Vrooom) Trio (Starless and Bible Black) The Dream and The Illusion (Moonchild Improv)(In The Court Of The Crimson King) The Fright Watch (The Night Watch) Thrakattak pt 1 (Thrakattak) Industry (Three Of A Perfect Pair) B'Boom (B'Boom) Asbury Park (USA) Groon (A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson) Requiem (Beat) CD Two (Songs) Epitaph (Epitaph) Cadence and Cascade (Frame By Frame) Matte Kudesai (The Compact King Crimson) Cat Food (In The Wake Of Poseidon) Cirkus (Lizard) Book Of Saturday (Larks' Tongues in Aspic) Frame By Frame (Sleepless) Dinosaur (Thrak) Indiscipline (Discipline) 21st Century Schizoid man (Earthbound) Starless (Red) In the Court of the Crimson king (Heartbeat) My latest, entitled "Peerless" - is a single CD with one track from each of the 12 official studio LPs 21st Century Schizoid Man Cadence and Cascade Indoor Games Ladies Of The Road Exiles Fracture Starless Indiscipline Requiem Three Of A Perfect Pair Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream Larks Toungues In Aspic pt IV : Coda Looking forward to comiling that imaginary singles colection - surely it would be the ideal taster for anyone looking to introduce the band? I know everyone loves a list..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 01:12:33 +0000 From: "David Reilly" Subject: Earnest Bespectacled Young Men In ET 1057, Roderich wrote "we earnest, bespectacled young men very often miss the special crimson humour, i think - and even more often we think that we are more clever (or humourous, or....[add your favourite self-complacent self-description here]) than our king. which sometimes is the problem with ET, our sometimes stimulating, sometimes brilliant, sometimes boring forum. imho. greetings roderich" I just like to state for the record that I don't wear glasses - the rest is fine NP Scottish Guitar Quartet - Near The Circle (Caber 023) www.scottishguitarquartet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 20:56:53 EST From: DrBaht at aol dot com Subject: SHOGANAI I recently purchased the new KC ep, Shoganai, and included with the cd was a short bio in Japanese detailing happenings with the band over the past two years or so. As well as containing a set list from the Level Five Tour, there is also a list of songs, under the heading of 2002, that peaked my interest: Novotica / Eyes Wide Open / Heavy Construction / Level Five / Virtuous Circle / Electric / Dangerous Curves / Response to Stimuli / Deception of the Thrush / Haiku / Shoganai / Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With / Prelude / Love Cannot Bare / Drummy / Potato Pie Were there any KC shows during the past year that I was not aware of? Or is this just a list of songs that will appear in finished versions on the forthcoming cd? Bahtology ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:05:12 -0000 From: "Edward of Sim" Subject: "T.B.A" release by Crimson Hello, Talking Elephants! I found something weird when browsing Amazon.co.uk, a scheduled release by King Crimson for 2002, on Sanctuary, with the title "T.B.A". This is separate from the listing for the upcoming "The Power to Believe", and most interestingly provides a track-listing for "T.B.A", as follows: 1. Flood 2. Forever 3. Helpless 4. Touch 5. Every Move We Make 6. This Moment 7. In Other Words 8. Passenger 9. Off The TV 10. Grain of Faith 11. Over Me Does anyone know what this is? Is this some pre-existing proposed track listing for tPtB? Or perhaps a tracklisting from something else entirely that glitched its way onto this Crimso entry? peace Edward +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+ Edward of Sim a Californian in Lancashire my band: http://www.mp3.com/VirginTwin Spiritual psychedelic power-folk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:28:27 +0000 From: "Dave Allen" Subject: deja HEAVY CONSTUkCTION You know what we need? A full DVD supplement to Heavy ConstruKction (a la "deja VROOOM"). We know the Bootleg TV stuff must still exist! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:32:40 +0900 From: "take" Subject: There are a question and a wish. How do you do, I am a Japanese. I am a painter. I am one of the fans of KING CRIMSON. In fact, there is a wish, and it makes by my original style of painting so that the pictures (face) of a jacket cover which Mr. Barry Godber of the first album "21st century Century Schizoid Man" of KING CRIMSON made may be imitated. Is it good? Is it good although I want to exhibit the made picture as an individual? I want to make as a theme purely rather than to imitate all. Neither commerce nor sale is the purposes. It was impressed by the picture of a jacket cover and the inspiration has come out. I need your help well pleasing. I am waiting for a reply. I am sorry to be poor at English. Name: kaoru satou Email: take at poa dot matsumoto dot ne dot jp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 04:36:07 +0000 From: "Dave Allen" Subject: KCCC videos/DVDs How about introducing videos and/or DVDs into the KCCC? Surly this would encourage the old "buy in bulk" policy? ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1059 *********************************