Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1051 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1051 Wednesday, 30 October 2002 Today's Topics: Happy With What We All Have To Be Happy With KC's Impact Fripp Interview Re: "Schizoid Dimension"/"Schizoid Band" ect. Ladies of the Road - anything "new" on there ? In Bude Politics & The Crimson Page Levin vs Wetton A wheel within a wheel Larks IV on Haappy etc 8.10.01 Boot Redux New recording of King Crimson's Trio! Queens of the Stone Age Bruford The term "Nuovo" Metal Prog rivals and Crimson drummers Drummers and prog rivals Re: Happy to be Happy.... Encore! ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:50:33 +0000 From: "Cameron Devlin" Subject: Happy With What We All Have To Be Happy With Sorry about the title - just didn't want to be the only one who didn't play on the title to express their feelings about the album. As you can tell, I like this. I'm not sure about the title track's lyrics, but Belew's voice is in great shape. Eyes Wide Open is excellent. I was very surprised. Potato Pie is very well executed. Unlike ProzaKc Blues, which was pretty far from blues, this is actually a blues song (well... as close as King Crimson are every likely to get). Beautiful guitar tone at about 2min30. Larks' Tongues In Aspic (Part IV) rocks hard. As usual. The rest is filler, but is still excellent. The haiku's are great, not so much for the lyrical content but for the space and the harmony. Production is a lot better than ConstruKction of Light as well. A dash of reverb makes all the difference. I bought this from the HMV in Oxford Street, London on import for #13.99. Anyone nearby that doesn't want to wait for next week for this to be released in the UK should head down there. I think it's going to be a lot cheaper than that as standard price though, so it's your decision. I think it was worth it. ~Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:44:26 +0200 From: "jan van Os" Subject: KC's Impact Mick and all the other readers of this newsletter, You told us about 1969, and your first experience with K.C's music. For me it was 3 years later, 1971 and strangly just after I moved from Amsterdam to a small country town in Holland . There I met a guy who had all 5 first K.C albums . I got them all in 1 day into my brains , and they never left there. (exept maybe USA ,which is welcome only once every 2 or 3 years) I followed the KC music till the "Beat" album , but I never had many records or CD's then. In the mideighties somehow I lost contact with KC. After I was divorced in '99 I found my "Islands " album again , and it gave me some comfort. I started to buy more Kc cd's , and the music hadn't lost any of it's magic. In fact, the HDCD's sounds better as ever before. My KC collection now is growing and growing, and only my Bach Collection is bigger nowadays. A lot of people here name other groups from the late 60's and early 70's most of them I know and have records of, one group from wich I like the first three albums very much I haven't heared the name here , it's the " Roxy Music " how comes ???? Greetings ; Jan . P.s.; " Flycatcher, I got that " Nightwatch" album!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:39:17 -0400 From: "Danny Stamper" Subject: Fripp Interview Can anyone tell me if you can find the Fripp webcast interview that was available on the Eden website, or is it gone forever? It is no longer accessible through the Eden or Virtuetv.com websites. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:09:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve munari Subject: Re: "Schizoid Dimension"/"Schizoid Band" ect. Hello All: I'm sure that 99% of ET reader's already know this, but felt I should comment. In ET 1047 Jan refer's to "finding a cd called "Schizoid Dimension"" whilst looking for the cd by "The 21st Century Schizoid Band'. So there is NO confusion, the "Schizoid Dimension" cd was done years ago, with each cut being a "cover" of a King Crimson song. For all the people whom have e-mailed me asking "where they can obtain a copy of the "SB" disc"...I've heard that the "Schizoid Band" is attempting to release the disc through "Voiceprint Records", but until that time comes, the only way I know of obtaining the disc by Michael Giles-Peter Giles-Ian MacDonald-Mel Collins & Jakko Jakszyk, is to have had someone whom attended 1 of the 10 concerts they performed buy 1 for you....OR talk 1 of these lucky people into "burning" a copy for you!(Good luck! This band needs all the $ it can get so it may record & release another cd.)Sorry. These ARE NOT the same disc. To the person whom was angry about harsh comments made about "Dream Theatre", I find myself wondering why any band of accomplished musician's would be "slammed" in ET or anywhere for that matter. I like alot of "DT's" material but don't think that any one band should be labeled as, "the best band in the world". There are FAR too many incredible bands out there worth your listening time & money, for ONE to get that label. However, if you like the drumming of Mike Portnoy (He is a fine drummer!)may I suggest you look into what the unbelieveable Virgil Donati has done with the drums on any of his solo cd's available at audiophile imports, or his insane drumming on the incredible cd's by "PLANET X"! I would suggest either "UNIVERSE" or "PLANET X LIVE FROM OZ". This band more than any other in the last 2-3 years finds it's way onto my cd player on a regular basis. Donati is SO TALENTED, that all his peer's comment on him in a positive manner.(In other words, they don't know how he is able to play what he play's!) If it's just great drumming your looking for, I suggest you buy a copy of the "Montreal Drum Fest" 2cd package from 96/97! It not only floors you with an unreal 14 min solo by Donati(I can hear the groans now. But listen to it!)but you'll be able to hear great drummer's like Dennis Chambers-Mike Mangini-Horacio Hernandez-Chad Wackerman(Ex FZ)and many others. Truly a "drummer's" delight. Lastly my quick 2 cents on Ian MacDonald's "Driver's Eye's" & the "Hyde Park" disc. "Driver's Eye's" is a fine disc that cover's a variety of styles, but if you're looking for a cd that is "super heavy" ala "TCOL" or live shows from KC in the past year, well you won't find it here, although "Sax's 5th Avenue" is very cool & "In Your Hand's" is a little heavier. I knew going in that the "Hyde Park" recording would have plenty of "recording problems" as i've come to expect that of MANY earlier KC soundboard recordings, or audience recordings, but since I was'nt there, I had to have it, & it's not the worst sonic recording of an old Crimson performance. I'll take what I can get when it comes to older KC performances. "The Modern day composer Refuses to Die" FZ Steven Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:29:15 -0700 From: "PT" Subject: Ladies of the Road - anything "new" on there ? does the new Ladies Of the Road CD contain any previously "unreleased" music ? I know most ( or perhaps all of it) is taken from previous collector's club releases. so in other words, if I have all of the collector's club releases, do I have everything that's on Ladies Of The Road ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:45:22 -0700 From: Rick & Corinna Subject: In Bude Bude is a popular surfing beach in England. Perhaps he was in a hotel looking out his window when he wrote this. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 04:55:07 -0500 From: "Alan Atwood" Subject: Politics & The Crimson Page I realize that The Elephant Talk site is primarily a site strictly dedicated to King Crimson and other artists on the DGM label but since you (or perhaps another moderator other than yourself) brought politics into the "Sightings" page, then it is fair game for a response. I find your commentary regarding the Republican Party and their name for their newsletter ("Elephant Talk") quite ridiculous. After all, the Elephant is the official symbol for the party in question. In reality, you merely taking a cheap shot at the Republicans, especially with statements like "...another example of Republicans sloppily appropriating rock lyrics in an effort to be "hip." As if the Democrats are not guilty of doing exactly what you accuse the Republicans of. Example: Clinton playing the Sax on The Arsenio Hall Show as well as showing up on MTV and entertaining a stupid question regarding underwear, Fleetwood Mac and every Hollywood type showing up and hanging out with Clinton at the inauguration and many other incidents I could name. Though I would agree that Presidents should keep their mouth shut about pop music - Democrat or Republican. If you despise Republicans, at least be honest about it and spare us your inaccurate political barbs. Alan Houston, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:05:16 +1000 From: "prof. Dawid" Subject: Levin vs Wetton Hi I've already read a couple of times the statement that Tony Levin has played in every group in the world. I started wondering if he really is KC's most frequent 'sold' member. In fact I think that John Wetton appears on more LPs than TL. Has anybody counted these guys' achievements? (live and greatest hits stuff don't count). Dave -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:46:25 +0000 From: Neil Ingram Subject: A wheel within a wheel Dear all The early Crimson songs were written against a turbulent political backdrop - Vietnam, social unrest - especially amongst students - invasions in Czechoslovakia, and so on. The wheel may be turning full circle again. Hence those early Crim songs gain a renewed relevance. I realised this listening to the songs sweat and swagger around a tiny dance hall watching the 21CSB play their third or fourth ever gig. The songs are revitalised through being performed live. My thoughts on the whole 21CSB thing are at http://www.songsouponsea.com/review.htm if you are interested, then please take a peek. It *was* a great show! Best wishes Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:32:06 -0000 From: "Leigh Golland" Subject: Larks IV on Haappy etc I read that this version was recorded at Nashville, does anyone know whether this is the same version as the one included on the collectors club release? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:35:14 -0500 From: Sylvan Subject: 8.10.01 Boot Redux Sorry about this. :( Due to a computer-related disaster, I lost all the emails that people sent me after I posted about that Crim boot a few digests ago. If you emailed me, please resend it! -- Sylvan http://www.webcomics.org "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." --Terry Pratchett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:32:41 -0000 From: Sandy Starr Subject: New recording of King Crimson's Trio! Last week, I had the pleasure of attending the launch of the album 'Sad Steps' by Virelai, a band who perform on Renaissance instruments. The band's members include DGM artist Jacob Herringman, and the launch took place at London's Royal Academy of Music. The album features several compositions by Andrew Keeling, a man many ETers will know for his analyses of King Crimson's music. Even better, the album includes a new arrangement, by Andrew Keeling, of the King Crimson track Trio (from Starless and Bible Black). I can't tell you how gorgeous Trio sounds played on these instruments - delicate and perfect. When Virelai gave a performance at the album launch, Trio was the final track that they played, and made for a lovely conclusion to the evening. As far as I can tell, the album isn't available online yet. It's released on the Riverrun label, but is still confined to the 'future releases' section of their website (at http://www.rvrcd.co.uk). I'll post as soon as I have any more news. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:03:17 -0500 From: "Nik Smith" Subject: Queens of the Stone Age If there are people on this bulletin that have no heard Queens of the Stone Age, I suggest you go out and do so now. All three of their albums are so unbelievably great, all show a healthy influence of King Crimson, but with more then enough innovation and progression to prevent someone from saying "They are ripping off Crimson" like the band Anekdoten gets. Their first album is self-titled, their second is called "R" and their most recent is "Songs for the Deaf". Do yourself a favor and listen to one of most intelligent and best bands to emerge in a long while. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:37:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Clayton Subject: Bruford To Scott Steele (&everyone else ... )- I've got to go with Spearman on this one ... Bruford in an interview after the Union tour stated that Rock gigs like ABWH, Yes & Crimson make it easier to finance his own personal projects. I haven't seen any direct quotes of him swearing off rock for good, but even if he did say that it would really be hard for anyone to turn his back on some really good coin, especially if it helps one further one's own personal endeavors. Doesn't really matter anyway, Bill always gives 100% and improves most groups just by being there, so I don't think he can ever be accused of taking a gig "just for the money" . Not that there's anything wrong with that. Peace Jeff Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:46:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jimmy Bob Subject: The term "Nuovo" Metal Is there anyone besides me who thinks that the term nuovo/nouveau metal should not be used to describe KC's music? It's not the metal part that bugs me. It just sounds too much like Nu Metal, which is something relatively (if not vastly) different (unless you somehow categorize KC with bands like Korn & Limp Bozkit). I think I've come up with a better term for KC's musicality, which is somewhat descriptive, and also harkens back to Crimso's old days (a la Sinfield). What exactly do I propose to call it? Groon Metal No really. This would be more descriptive of KC's music from '69 to now. I came to this conclusion by remembering a link to a site with the definition of the word groon in "Promenade the Puzzle". To sum it up, groon is a hybrid verb which combines to two words groove and groan. In essence, King Crimson's music is just that: music that makes some people groove (songs like "Cat Food", "Great Deciever", "SSEDD", the new song "HWWYHTBHW") can make other people groan in agony (if you don't believe me, just listen to "Happy Family" and see if you don't find that song awful but groovy in a surrealistic Syd Barret-esque kinda way.) And to back it, I will paraphrase RF from the introduction to the "ITCOKC" essay/memoir on the DejaVROOOM DVD in which he says, basically: "...for King Crimson, reaction to the music is more or less love it ot hate it, with little indifference..." It also flows off the tongue better than either nuovo or nouveau. OK, I'm done splurting out ideas for now. Carry on. -jimmybobLW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 23:58:24 -0800 From: "David C." Subject: Prog rivals and Crimson drummers I must share my comments and opinions on the drummers drummer as much has been expressed on these posts. We all have our favorites, some partially biased, others who we try to emulate and idolize. As far as rock and fusion goes the brilliance of B. Barlow, Mitch Mitchell, Michael Giles, Bonham, Bruford, Wallace, Ansley Dunbar, Cobham, Lenny White and Mouson, Neil Peart, Rod Morgenstein and Terry Bozzio come to immediate attention as they all were challenged and also fed upon the collective improvisations of the band members or chief composer and most imporantly they were avid listeners of jazz. Mike Portnoy isn't bad, however there is a difference between being flashy and busy without painting pictures with grace and vision. Any one reading these posts ever seen Return to Forever in the past or the Dixie Dregs live? Portnoy can not even touch Rod, I do not care what anyone says. And I have yet to hear the mention of Rod's name on here. Lenny White reminds of Bruford in the sense that it is what he does throughout the song not the solo that distinguishes them. Giles drumming on the 69 tour not to mention ITCOTCK is top notch needless to say. I always liked Chester Thompson and Ansley's playing with Zappa and of course Bozzio, especially with Polytown and the Isham tour of 1988. I suggest you pick up Alphonse Mouson's Mind Transplant with Tommy Bolin and Lee Ritenour and some late 60's James Brown recordings and listen to the rhythm section snap with timeless precision, rhythm and soul. This is serious stuff. Oops I forgot to mention Dennis Chambers and Porcaro. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 05:07:24 EST From: IanSharwood at aol dot com Subject: Re: Happy to be Happy.... Dear folk I am back again. Being a lover of all things Crimson I am still trying to like this album, so I found half an hour or so to sit down and listen intently. I fell asleep! Sorry chaps this is still the only Crimson album I am completely indifferent to. I will try harder next time! Ian Sharwood. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 04:13:26 -0800 (PST) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: Encore! All this "living in the past" or "move on" discussion... I didn't have a definitive opinion about Crimson (or 21st CSB) playing old songs, live until last night. I dreamed about a Crimson gig (present lineup), here in my city. I don't remember quite well, but it felt that the gig was damn good and at some point the crowd was asking for an encore. And they played "one More red Nightmare". Everyone playing the right note, in one of my favorite songs. I was overwhelmed. So the crowd was. If you "were" there, i can't believe anyboy would complain about it. Believe me. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1051 *********************************