Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1050 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1050 Monday, 28 October 2002 Today's Topics: ET Talk Happy with what you... HAPPY TO BE HAPPY/SHIRT POCKET NOTES Happy Thoughts Ranking KCCC releases Discipline era Collectors club Re: Happy With Happy Re: Happy edit ...Dialogue, Diatribe... Re: Dream Theater Comments Happy With Fripp's solos... Re: ELP use of Crimson Lyrics 21CSB it's dear old uncle bobby My Happy Review A Fresh Crimson Re: ELP's Epitath and PFM Who's who on the Hyde Park 'reunion' track The kids are happy with what they have to be happy with! haiku, I can do that.... ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:36:30 EDT From: RC248 at aol dot com Subject: ET Talk --part1_55.2fa367fb.2ae87e6e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings in ET Land, the original Sqawk Box.......Long time listener here. I do not see what the big deal is about the Schizod Band, let it be. I mean, it seems it was Mr. Fripp years ago, talking about small mobile units, am I correct ? So, if they want to subdivide the corporation, let them ! You can listen, or you can pass. No one is attempting to plant a flag solely on the terra Crimson ! In fact, it only re invigorates the Beast we know and love - If there is an enthusiasm for it, why should people be denied ? And has anyone expressed the thought that just maybe - they just want to play the music ?? I mean, it's highly unlikely this will create some huge, new, previously unseen Tsunami wave of Crimson lust ! It will do what it will do, and God willing, there will continue to be a small, elite audience of Crimsonites. All this hand wringing, silly ! Yes managed to survive and flourish with Yes West, and I think, stimulated those wonderful dudes to a new era. Personally, I look forward to hearing it at some point. If it's weak, sad - the market will decide, and they will dumped into the history books. I mean, if we have 500 channels on cable - can't we have two for Crimson ?? Peace and Love, dudes - Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:00:27 -0400 From: "Yves Rinfret" Subject: Happy with what you... `Blah blah blah blah... Eyes wide open, a Belew song... Bruford is no more in King Crimson... Blah blah blah...' For those who are missing Mr. Bruford, listen `Shoganai' and `Eyes wide open' sound excellent and fit very well for Crimson, i.e sound fresh and new for the band. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:12:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: HAPPY TO BE HAPPY/SHIRT POCKET NOTES Love the little teaser. Don't mind the lyrics one bit. Think their cool. Wish the soundscape was longer/ powerful or what! Why do I keep going back to track Number nine, number nine, number nine,,oh LTIA Pt.IV?! Shirt pocket note: Agree with Anna about the Tribute band. Did love Wetton's live in Japan CD a few years back. BOOK OF SATURDAYS was even cool. But a Frippless STARLESS maKe me shudder! Ah! Basile By The Three Rivers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:26:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Todd Madson Subject: Happy Thoughts Rec'd the disc today. Love it. (1) vocoded sections - nice (2) happy - rocks with a vengeance. (3) mie gakure - like blue velvet. gorgeous. (4) she shudders - nice. (5) eyes wide open - love this - leave it acoustic. lovely (6) shoganai - hypnotic - more please (7) i ran - nice (8) potato pie - earthy (9) lark's iv - raw, gutsy (10) clouds + einstein - thanks for making me laugh on a rough day! Can't wait for "The Power". -t [lurk mode on again] -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:42:40 +0200 From: Laurent Masse Subject: Ranking KCCC releases From someone who was a member since the beginning and who is heavily biased on post-81 Crim, my top 5 KCCC releases are: 1 - Nashville rehearsals - simply brilliant 2 - Cap d'Agde - great sound, great playing 3 - Vrooom Sessions - Fashionable and Krim 3 should have surfaced somewhere in enhanced form. 4 - Nashville - Listen to ET and Thela and tell me you still miss those two guys. No 5 for the moment as I know the so-called "Champaign-Urbana" sessions will be part of this list. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:43:30 -0700 From: "David C." Subject: Discipline era Collectors club Are there any plans on releasing live recordings from the Discipline era? There are some real intriguing alternate experimental versions of songs as K.C. developed the final arrangements during the course of this tour. Killing this thread or inquiry would be extremely unfair now that the bulk of King's recorded catalog consists of live recordings. :) And maybe an official live of Sunday All Over The World, The League of Gentlemen & Bruford band. Anyone out there purchased that new live Tony Levin band CD and your opinion of it? Strange but one of the Knights in the Residents video clip The Banquet Hall resembles Les a bit. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 07:30:50 EDT From: IanSharwood at aol dot com Subject: Re: Happy With Happy Dear folk I have tried very hard to like this EP. Others that have read my postings before will know that I support the stance that Robert takes on his music but for the first time in over 30 years I have to say I am indifferent to a King Crimson album. In the past I have liked some more than others but I have never been indifferent to one. I re-listened to the Vroom EP the other night as I think it fair to make a comparison (a work in progress scenario). It was infinitely superior in terms of depth, scope and continuity and I am sorry to say material. I await a live set based on the new material as KC always seem to excel live. The double live CD Heavy Construction is a perfect illustration of this. The previous studio album was OK but not exceptional. Ultimately it may be time for the King to rest again for a while. I think I understand now, why it was that Bill Bruford saw no truly great material that he could contribute to, the key reason for his departure. I live in hope and await the next live release! Ian Sharwood ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:13:13 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: Happy edit >Anyways, I like the Happy song EXCEPT >the chorus-way too kiddieish for me. So I shoot the song onto my computer >as a wav file, use cooledit96 to take out the 2 sections of chorus, and >re-burn the song. It's Excellent! (Ahhh, the way Kcrimson should be!). I'm >HAPPY now! Just another reason why there should be no such thing as a Burn-Proof CD. It is a violation of your personal rights to enjoy music. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:03:39 -0400 From: "Alexander Haas" Subject: ...Dialogue, Diatribe... This is my first post on list, I'll try to keep my cuts clean ^_-. First, in reference to the HWWYHtbHW EP, I very much like it. I've always resented the fact that bands like Tool are often compared with the almighty Crim, and with this release (especially the title cut), it seems that the King has reclaimed the heavy metal throne, but not in a manner that smacks of "trying to catch up" with the current generation of musicians. To me I suppose I'm rather spoiled in that a band sounds like the band regardless of lineup or material played...granted, it would be another thing entirely to have a band comprised of Paul McCartney, Pete Townsend, Ian Anderson, Neil Peart, and Richard Wright going on tour as King Crimson...but you get the idea. This brings me to my second point: I personally haven't heard any 21CSB recordings, but based on the arguments about the "legitimacy" of such an outfit, or as to whether or not they should inherit the title Crim proper... It just seems like a spinoff project. My example in this case would be Jethro Tull. The lineup has changed many times over since its inception, and yet the overall musical idea has remained the same because one of the (if you'll recall, Mick Abrams wrote probably half the songs on the initial album) original innovators of the band has been with it throughout. However, this hardly means the band has been stagnant. World musics and a more eloquent flute playing method were incorporated into the band's overall musical workings gradually...and to a point all at once as well. One could argue that the band isn't Jethro Tull without Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond, or that without Ian Anderson playing flute more sloppily it just isn't the Jethro Tull sound, etc. Ultimately though, all you witness is a progression - and a necessary one. Frankly, take it from the subjective POV of the performer. Wouldn't you be pretty f**king bored if you did the same thing ad nauseum, decade after decade? Just my $.02. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:09:13 -0400 From: Dan Cooper Subject: Re: Dream Theater Comments In #1048, Guitar86Rick writes: "In the Elephant Talk issue #1044, someone made the comment that Dream Theater's masterpiece album, Metropolis Part II: Scenes From A Memory, is trash. They also said to screw Mike Portnoy. This mad me a little angry, when the best band in the world and one of the greatest drummers of all time are being insulted. Mike Portnoy has an incredibly intense style of drumming yet always sounds fresh and creeative. Also, this album rivals Tommy as the greatest rock opera ever. So, no one has the right to dis the technical greatness of this band." Hyperbole aside ("best band in the world"????), anyone and everyone has the right to "dis" the greatness (technical or otherwise) of this or any other band. It's all a matter of individual taste. In my opinion, while they are technically proficient, Dream Theater is repetitive and uninteresting. Does that make you angry too? Too bad pal. Opinions are like assholes...everybody's got one. (Trivia quiz: who is quoted as having said that? I'll give you a hint, I think he's a much better & more interesting drummer than Mike Portnoy.) Ciao. Dan Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:50:17 +0100 From: "phill lister" Subject: Happy With Fripp's solos... I've just been looking over past posts but can't find the one that bemoaned the lack of Fripp solos on the new EP. Leaving aside the issue of "what does it matter?" there's the stonking written part on LTIA4 and there's the glorious blues solo on Potato Pie - the quiet one, amazing tone, very remindful of 69 Crimso but acknowledging the Blues in the air at that time which Fripp was trying to avoid but which he's now masterfully edging up to. Influence of the G3 tour he did, jamming Red House with Satch and Vai? As for rest of album, I really like it. The haikus or whatever aren't "fillers" or "joiners" but like "Peace - A Theme" are a part of the overall contrast between moods/feelings. This band is cooking! IMHO :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:31:47 +0000 From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Re: ELP use of Crimson Lyrics FWIW, I saw ELP on their 'Works' tour in 1977, and Lake was still doing the 'Epitath' quote in Tarkus then. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:46:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Stack Subject: 21CSB Gary Davis said: > It's interesting how this subject has evolved in ET. > Some people have made > conjectures or expressed an opinion and others have > responded to it as > though it were fact. Take for instance the claims > that Schizoid Band IS > Crimson. I don't think the person who first said > that was even stating an > opinion, but just saying it as a way to expresss how > great he felt after > having seen the band deliver what he considered a > stunning performance. -snip- > But as the > thread continued some peole were responding to the > whole thing as though the > band themselves had stated, "We are the true > Crimson, not Fripp," which > never happened. > Gary, I felt a need to respond to this since I was one of the first people on the "Schizoid Band is not Crimso" front. I made a slight edit for brevity to your quote. I hope I didn't give the impression that I felt 21CSB pretended to be, acted as, or stated they were anything other than what they are. What I stated was that I was a bit shocked to find the sort of attitude that this band was a band that was *finally* playing REAL Crimson music. That was something that came out-- stated a number of ways. I've always disliked bands that lived in the past. I've never seen the early Crimson bands live. I was born too late, the first group I was able to see was the Double Trio. But I have no desire to see that music played live-- I love it, I love the live recordings, but the music is of a time, and the performance is of a time, and the old live shows are wonderful, but it's always seemed that getting back together and having a blow at the old hits is a bit inauthentic to me. I'm not trying to accuse 21CSB of anything, but Crimson was always about looking forward, about progress. And it's lost the band a number of fans over the years, from people who think everything was worthless after the first album to the camp who dislike the '80s Crimson, to those who recently have begun the bring back Bruford/Levin bandwagons we've seen since 2000. I love change, I love bands that change, and evolution. Looking back may be ok, looking back forever is the problem. When 21CSB puts out new material, I may feel somewhat differently about them. Right now I'm reserving my opinion to some degree. These guys haven't played this music in a long time, it's only fair they might want to pick up where they left off. It's just whether or not they start moving again that I'm waiting to see. BTW, I will see 21CSB if they ever come through the U.S. mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:43:46 +0000 From: "Spear man" Subject: it's dear old uncle bobby I'm happy with.... the new EP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:35:25 -0400 From: "Chris Holderfield" Subject: My Happy Review See, I can do some word play too! :) My Happy... Review Trying to find the album was hell! Whoever is distributing this (I think it is BMG or Sanctuary) is doing a crappy job. I called several stores (Best Buy, Media Play, Meijers, Wal-Mart, OnCue...) but nobody had it. So on Saturday I ordered it online @ cduniverse.com, who has the best price i could find. The CD was only $7.69! I received it today (Wednesday) and I love it. I wish it was longer, but I knew what I was buying, and don't feel "ripped off" at all. The haikus are pretty well done. The title track is awesome, and its hard to stop listening to. Eyes Wide Open is an awesome "acoustic" song, and I can't wait for the final outcome. Potato Pie is pretty good, and LTiA Part 4 is a lot more lively than on TCoL album. If you were disappointed with "The ConstruKction of Light" album, this is a great comeback! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:35:22 -0500 From: Jeff Bridge Subject: A Fresh Crimson I just bought the new E.P. and I have to say I'm impressed. It sounds like Crimson are heading in a new direction not even foreshadowed by The ProjeKcs. Even the production sounds like it's bursting with new life and energy. I'll never know why The production on this E.P. sounds a ton better than the production on their last studio album. Gone also is that horrid plastic snare sound and the over compressed EVERYTHING. I'm more excited about the upcoming album now than I've ever been. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:12:19 +0000 From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Re: ELP's Epitath and PFM I always got the impression that Lake had been inserting the quote from 'Epitath' into ELP shows almost from the beginning, as every interview I ever read that touched on his time with KC found him ranting (albeit quite politely) how he had cvome up wit this idea, or that riff, etc., that the majority of his following as a member of ELP had come from his time with Crimson and the oft-repeated mantra that "I still feel Bob would have done better to say 'Let's knock this on the head and start a new band'" which was voiced as early as 1971 still being presented in intervies six years later at least. The apparent private haranguing over the release of the Hyde Park performance over the last eighteen months, which most attributed to Lake, only reinforced this for me. And unfortunately only served to diminish Lake in my eyes. I think Robert states it best: >Probably the main difference in view between myself and the early Crims (at >least) is that they believe they created King Crimson. I believe ("knowing" >would be a little overbearing!) that King Crimson created us. Having lived a (very short) chapter of my early life as a semi-professional musician (and not necessarily a very good one either!), I tend to agree with Robert. Regarding the PFM live CDs, I don't think the first one is from just *one* concert, but I could be wrong (and it wouldn;t be the first time). AFAIK Sinfield *was* enlisted to work with them because they were signed to Manticore and he was working with ELP, but they were definitely Crison fans from the beginning. Following is a rough translation (not by me!) from the book that comes with the PFM live CDs: >In January '73 we departed again to London to record our first >international LP with ELP's Manticore label at the Command Studio. Fate had >it that the new >formation of King Crimson, led by Robert Fripp, was recording "Lark's >Toungue in Aspic" in the room next to ours. Evidently it was destined that >our paths crossed. The birth of "Photos of Ghost", English version of "Per >un Amico", coincided with a retouch on our name, since in the Great Britain >the pronunciation didn't quite hit them at all, to the point where every >interview there was a funny incident with linguistic deformation, to >put it in a little grotesque manner. The most recurring one sounded >something like this: Premiatiniconi Fornaroncini Marconcinetti and >therefore we gave up calling ourselves Premiata Forneria Marconi. "P.F.M. >is better", sentenced Pete Sinfield, "easier and international". Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:22:44 +0000 From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Who's who on the Hyde Park 'reunion' track As best I can tell: 1) The low, 'smoky' voice belongs to Greg Lake. 2) The one who offers apologies for leaving KC69 is Ian McDonald. 3) The other, besides Fripp, that does the majority of the remainder of the talking, belongs to Mike Giles. 4) Pete Sinfield, I believe, only speaka a few words here or there, and when Fripp poses a question to the 'roadies', I think both Dik Fraser and Richard Vickers speak at times, but the one who talks about being on the road with ELP would (I think) be Dik Fraser, as I don't think Vickers worked with ELP, but I could be wrong there. The most intrieguing thing to me about this track is how happy Lake sounds to be getting together with his old chums . . . and how that all seemed to fall apart so shortly afterwards. It's a mystery! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:43:51 -0400 From: Kevin Holm-Hudson Subject: The kids are happy with what they have to be happy with! Just thought I'd share with the ET crowd that my son--age 4--absolutely adores "Happy"--or at least the title song. (He's a fan of big guitars, having moved through his Linkin Park and Ramones phases...) Now whenever we ride in the car he asks, "can we hear 'Be Happy with What You Have'?" This of course sets up arguments with my daughter (age 7) who would much rather hear "Eyes Wide Open." Ahh, at least they're arguing over King Crimson songs--how cool is that? As a parent, I also find it useful to remind him of the, uh, moral in the chorus, should he get too whiny "remember the song? Be happy with what you have to be happy with." "OK, daddy." Thanks, Adrian, for making my job a little easier. :-) So... When will dear old Uncle Bobby and company put out that KC kids' CD? I bet a number of us would by it, and it would kick Barney's... I'm happy with what I have, Kevin Holm-Hudson -- Kevin Holm-Hudson Assistant Professor of Music Theory University of Kentucky 105 Fine Arts Building Lexington, KY 40506-0022 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:59:39 -0500 From: wviland at thin-film dot com Subject: haiku, I can do that.... Wrote: "Hewitt, Simon" >generally >arranged in three lines, divided into 5-7-5. (This rule can also be broken.) >Haiku are usually inspired by some aspect of nature. The challenge is for >the writer to experience something sensual in an intense way (a "haiku >moment") and to communicate the feeling that this evokes in a small number >of words. Thought I'd give it a shot. as a dying star, the woods burst to bright color then fade from life Ever Creating time to time eternally Ever Only One Anybody feel a moment of epiphany? NP: Marc Ribot - Rootless ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1050 *********************************