Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1047 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1047 Saturday, 19 October 2002 Today's Topics: Re: Improv/Progression/Happy Schizoid Band...Again! Sorry Selling CD's Happy With What...Lyrics LEVEL 5-Japanese strangeness LEVEL 5 and eil.com just a controversial commentary Happy with Happy.......... Happy with what I have to be Happy with A Tribute to KC bruford to return or not to return Re: Have you got to be happy? Crim goes Metallica: Yeah, right! Kunio Sumas Midis 2 Ashbory file-sharing balance REVIEW: HWWYHTBHW Crimson Bebop Being 45 and soaking up the late 60's prog rock in my pre teen years Happy lyrics & promising sound Re: Happy Lyrics ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:36:44 -0400 From: "Tony Ellis" Subject: Re: Improv/Progression/Happy Brian Mafi said: > Hey Ade, keep the current lyrics! Piss off the people crying for >your head on a pike! I wanna go around singing "SO I GOTTA WRITE A >CHORUS!!!! SO WE'RE GONNA NEED A CHORUS!!!!" I agree!! When I first heard that line, I thought it was the most funny & original damn lyric that I've heard in a long time. I AM running around singing it. And I probably will continue to do so for a couple of weeks. The one other thing that I can say about this song is that it should get played on the radio...it's 500% better that the crap that passes for modern rock that gets on radio playlists (Not that I can stand to listen to the radio much). It's f'ing heavy...yet well thought out & executed musically. Which is one thing most music isn't nowadays. One other thing before I de-lurk; to all the people that may not like Adrian's lyrics for "Happy" & other Krim songs: try writing some lyrics yourself before you bitch & moan about his lyrical abilities (Or lack thereof). I actually liked the lyrics to the coda of LTIA IV (and miss them whenever I hear the song) but I seem to be in the minority on that one. It appears that lyrics always seem to come real easy to those who don't have to actually write any. (Yes, I AM a songwriter, BTW) Peace, Love & Understanding, tony e np: Elvis Costello "When I Was Cruel" King Crimson "Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:45:10 +0000 From: "Anna Rose" Subject: Schizoid Band...Again! Sorry Sorry about coming back to this as it should without doubt be left alone by now, but really all that the Schizoid Band is for, is to be a commercial gimmick. Crimson are still exploring new horizons. The old music was done a long time ago. For people like me who weren't born then, or who hadn't gotten into KC yet in the 1970s... that's our bad luck. We missed it. We should move on, go to see the modern KC and appreciate it. It's like that Re-Genesis thing. Perhaps not quite as bad, because the Schizoid Band is old Crim members. My point is that I'd be the first to say I wish that I could hear the old KC / Genesis music played live, but I'd never go to see any band playing 'Foxtrot' if they didn't have Peter Gabriel in them, and I'd never go see any band play 'Larks' Tongues' if they were Fripp-less. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:37:35 EDT From: AlfredDodson at aol dot com Subject: Selling CD's Fellow KC fans I'm Selling my imported Russian CD's of "Earthbound" And "USA" email if you're interested in purchasing. aKd ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:24:26 EDT From: GORTAY at aol dot com Subject: Happy With What...Lyrics The lyrics to "Happy With What You Have to be Happy With" where the verses and chorus largely consist of Belew telling us that these are the verses and choruses (transcribed by David Beardsley in ET 1045) reminded me somewhat of 'Signed Curtain' from the first Matching Mole album. "This is the first verse, and this is the first verse, (etc.)....... and this is the chorus (etc.)....... and this is the second verse, it's probably the last one (etc.)........ and this is the chorus, or perhaps it a bridge, or just another part of the song I'm singing. Never mind, it doesn't hurt, it only means that I've lost faith in this song (etc.)." The posts concerning the relationship between KC and the 21st CSB brought up the subject of bands which continued with one or none of their original members. One writer invoked Fairport Convention. Others were, so far as I remember, Renaissance and Babe Ruth both of which shed their original contingent through natural wastage and ended up with quite different musical styles than they began with. It used to be a fairly common phenomenon as band names were often owned by the management rather than the artists. When Fleetwood Mac decamped to the USA their erstwhile manager put together a bogus version and sent them on a disasterous tour of the UK. The musicians changed their name to Stretch and had a hit with a song called "Why did you do it?". Quite a few old soul bands tour with personnel who had nothing whatsoever to do with the original records too. At one time there were apparantly three versions of the Drifters going around, none of which had ever been up on the roof or under the boardwalk. Gordon Taylor. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:02:13 EDT From: NajiBaji at aol dot com Subject: LEVEL 5-Japanese strangeness Hello all: Read Laurent's post in ET 1045 regarding "Japanese Level 5." I own a Japanese import of that King Crimson EP and I wondered why he felt it was so strange. I looked it up on eil.com and found it too strange indeed. None of the 16 tracks reported on that site match up to mine, which is exactly the same as the "official" KC release. It appears to me that the track listing ascribed to this release is in error and belongs to another CD. The tracks all appear to be Christian oriented songs. This in my humble estimation is a SNAFU on the part of eil.com. Someone got theirs chips crossed. I suggest you take heed before getting excited. Unless of course you are conspiracy theorist and a KC fan at the same time (Hello Ernest-just trying to be on the vigil for any further Spock's Beardness...). You might be led to believe that this is an attempt to proselytize the progrockers. (Apologies to those who put KC in the prog rock camp.) If there was some really unique about a Level 5 Japanese release, I sincerely believe it would have appeared in ET already. Dave BTW: Is it me or does anyone else pick up on a "spiritual" musical similarity in "Happy to be..." with Ren and Stimpy's "Happy Happy Joy Joy" song? Or maybe I've had to much ET and need some ProzaKc and a lie down. Being giddy with a new teaser KC release has that effect ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:45:48 +0200 From: Laurent Masse Subject: LEVEL 5 and eil.com >It appears to me that the track listing ascribed to this release is in error >and belongs to another CD. The tracks all appear to be Christian oriented >songs. This in my humble estimation is a SNAFU on the part of eil.com. >Someone got theirs chips crossed. I'd just like to add to Dave's post that, apart from the occasional and very rare SNAFU, eil.com is an EXCELLENT service. This is where I bought the last batch of remasters, long before they were availbale on DGM's site, and among the treasures I found there is the Elephant Talk promo 12" with the extended mix. Just have a look to what is on offer there. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:11:41 +0200 From: "xavery" Subject: just a controversial commentary > On the upside, the new Porcupine Tree 'In Absentia' is fantastic.....and > progressive. I little louder than their previous CD but interesting all > the > way through: provocative lyrics, complicated music that isn't predictable. Personally, I postponed buying this CD. Why? I read an interview w/Steven Wilson in which he said that : people want dark and heavy music these days, of course that there's nu metal preferred by teenagers, but there are of course older people who'd like smth more complicated - and that's the place for us(the band) to be... a provacation? you be the judge, but from samples & outtakes I've heard I can't say I'm impressed... One only hopes that Fripp will not proclaim such a statement. And as of band/music progression in the case of Porcupine Tree, I regard albums from 'The sky move sideways'/'Signify' era as really interesting ones, whereas later on they ventured into pop. (a _progression_ isn't it??) > The whole meaning would be "Happy with what you are required to be > happy with". This sounds like you are generally unhappy but you are > forced to be happy about certain things. Has anyone else read it this > way or is it just me being weird? apparently, you're not the only one. myself included np P1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:37:14 -0500 From: "Marc Gonzalez" Subject: Happy with Happy.......... I picked up the new EP and liked it right away; a lot! Really looking forward to Power to Believe and the tour. I really like Machine's production on Happy; if the new CD sounds as good as that one song, Wow! Talk about a punch in the face!! I also like the 'hidden track' - a sampling of the new CD? Sounds way cool. I also got like 20 copies of the little adverts for Power to Believe in the CD; I can wallpaper my cubicle with them. Any idea why they are on Sanctuary and not Virgin? Or why the CD title went from Nouveau Metal to Elecktrik to Power to Believe? I miss Robert's diaries, he would usually fill us in on the issues. Marc Gonzalez IS Customer Service Ochsner Foundation Clinic 504.842.7881 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:11:55 -0400 From: ShaneOtis720 at netscape dot net (Shane Otis) Subject: Happy with what I have to be Happy with Just received the new disc and I have to say.... "Oh my God, the title track just straight out ROCKS the *&$*ing house!!!" Had me grinning from ear to ear... Is it just me or is this some of the heaviest Crim ever??? I love the synopsis of the song being about creating the song... Instant classic KC. Way to go for them to turn seemingly writer's block into something totally cool, totally creative, and keep it interesting... I love this entire disc. The haikus are interesting breaks, the blues of "Potato Pie", the sheer ferocity of this version of LTIA pt.IV...Did anyone else think that "Shoganai" seems interestingly like the intro to LTIA Pt. 1 without being a repeat? Interesting blend of revision and invention. I can't wait for "The Power To Believe" and the new tour. There aren't many shows I go to anymore but Crim is one I won't miss! I am so HAPPY that my favorite band continues to churn out new and interesting material... -Shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:47:36 +0200 From: "Jan Kruse" Subject: A Tribute to KC Hello all, Just a little word from Holland. Trying to fing a cd from th 21st Century Schizoid Band i came across a cd called: Schizoid Dimension- A Tribut . This is defenitely the tribute cd you people were looking in the last few Elephant Talks as I know for sure having heard/seen some of the tracks on Elephant Tape at the time. Just go to www.cdnow.com and search for "schizoid band". Surprise surprise. regards jan dot kruse at planet dot nl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:14:41 +0000 From: "Spear man" Subject: bruford to return or not to return >The fact is he will not return to Rock; he said so publicly at a concert I >attended in Brighton recently. He has returned to his greatest love, >Jazz.< could be true, but if bruford's rock gigs--e.g. KC or even YES--paid nearly as well as what he gets now for his jazz gigs, he'd return to rock in a Heartbeat. --spearman np: Gong--YOU ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:07:37 -0700 (MST) From: checkman Subject: Re: Have you got to be happy? >Paul Timms wrote: > >"Lurk's tongue in cheekside" wrote: > >>...i can't believe i'm the first person to post to ET the anal retentive >>complaint that the new kc release, Happy With What You Have To Be Happy >>With, should be corrected, for grammar's sake, to Happy With What You Have >>With Which To Be Happy. > >Not necessarily. It depends how you read the sentence. You're taking "have" >as meaning "own" whereas it could be "have to" as in "must". The whole >meaning would be "Happy with what you are required to be happy with". This >sounds like you are generally unhappy but you are forced to be happy about >certain things. Has anyone else read it this way or is it just me being >weird? Since it CAN be interpretted both ways, and since Belew loves word play (check the liner notes!), both meanings were probably intended. This holds up when you look at the pictures: For the people on the cover, it looks like "have" means "must", but the picture inside with Belew and all of his toys probably conveys the meaning of "have" as "own". KC missed an even longer word play: "You have to be happy with what you have to be happy with" (form: A "what" A). But it might not have fit on the cover 8-). -- Christopher "HeKcman" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:11:03 -0400 From: "Abel Calvo" Subject: Crim goes Metallica: Yeah, right! >I like the title track, which has metal-ish moments (Crim goes Metallica) This line really got me salivating. I arrived to the office this morning (monday) and when I read ET 1045, I got absolutely convinced I had to go out and find my copy of Happy. When I read all those reviews talking about how KC got some influences from their touring with Tool, my patience began to break up. But when this ETer said that joke about Crim going 'Tallica, I said, "That's it, boy, I can't wait no more!". So I fled the office at lunchtime and came back with my pockets empty and my hands full of music, my ears in expectation. I had the bonus of finding the Thrak remaster, so I'm really happy to be happy with what I have to be happy with, inDEED. Although in the few hours to the moment I'm writing this (almost 6:00 PM) I've only had the chance to listening Happy a couple of times, I really like it. One can never stop being impressed with KC's ability to surprise you with so many different atmosferes. The title track is indeed metallish (watch and learn, Korn, P.O.D., Marylin Manson -whatever happened to him?- and Co.) (although System of a Down is an exception worthy of a listen). I could close my eyes and easily imagine this song to be in a new album by a very good heavy metal band. Eyes Wide Open is beautiful, Potato Pie is suave and LTIA IV is, well, KC making another great version of another great song, with some "dressing" in it. The small pieces and the "japanese" stuff will take longer to dig, but I'm sure it will. So, those of you who still are dubious, get your asses off those chairs and go get Happy (literally). If you don't like it, at least you'll be sure that you don't like it. See ya all in a bit! PS: I'm just unhappy 'cause I didn't have money enough to bring the SABB remaster along. Perhaps if I pass buying lunch for the next few days... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:30:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: Kunio Sumas Midis 2 On ET 931 I submit a post about Kunio Suma (Bi Kyo Ran's guitarist and vocalist) wonderful Midis on ET's audio section. I hadn't checked that section lately, and now i'm very pleased by hearing the entire Lizard album. Just amazing, note by note, even with the Robin Miller vibrato and everything. I know there are a lot of "Bolero"'s fans; I suggest you to check that piece. Congratulations Kunio. E. Kausel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: rone at ennui dot org (definitely what) Subject: Ashbory file-sharing balance > From: Tim > Subject: Ashbory Bass > > See . > Very interesting reading. More interesting is that Trey Gunn isn't listed > under the "Notable Players" section!! For shame... I think he only recently picked it up; during the Trey Gunn Band shows, it was Joe and not Trey who picked up the Ashbory, but then again, Joe was handling bass duties... More interesting to me was Trey's not being listed on the "Notable Players" page at the Stick Web site. > From: Michael Jackson > Subject: Unhappy with what you have to be unhappy with > Soooo I went and got the ep and it cost me $15. And I want you to know its > NOT worth it. There's only really just 4 songs while the rest are vocals > and the last piece is a cut up of stuff. Although the title piece is > interesting, the rest is trash. I expected my money's worth and got way > less. This is a good sample CD at 5.99, not at 15! If you'd pre-ordered at DGM, it would've cost you $10, and you would've sent the band more money. Take a little responsibility here, hmm? > And here's why people do file-sharing: because you can hear for > yourself before you buy. I'm not even interested in their new album. > They already took too much of my money for too little! Ah, yes, i believe that's Reason #3 from the oft-repeated "Why I Like To Encourage Copyright Violations"... > From: "Ryan Tassone" > Subject: Einstein's Relatives > The goal is BALANCE. AMEN. rone ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:28:56 -0700 (PDT) From: rone at ennui dot org (definitely what) Subject: REVIEW: HWWYHTBHW It's good. It's damn good. Not great. But damn good. First off, i'm not sure that they're haikus. Maybe they follow the haiku format in Japanese, but certainly not in English. I wonder if Adrian used Trey's "talker", the thingy he uses in "The Deception of the Thrush". - 'Bude': Japanese for "martial way". "Haiku". in one small pane of my window imbued the ocean fits I am not certain if 'Bude' is some sort of pun with 'imbued' (im-bude? geddit? ah, never mind). - 'Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With': Adrian Belew has a little fun with words (perhaps a touch too corny for my taste). At the end, the same poem from 'Bude' (minus "imbued") is replayed. - 'Mie Gakure': Japanese for "seen and hidden". Soundscape. Absolutely gorgeous. - 'She Shudders': "Haiku". like a leaf when i touch her she shudders when i touch her when i touch her - 'Eyes Wide Open': Beautiful song. I agree (with, i think, Ryan) that it doesn't feel Crim-ish yet in its acoustic form; i look forward to the end result. - 'Shoganai': Also listed as "Sho Ga Nai". As others have mentioned, it roughly translates as "it cannot be helped" (or perhaps even "shit happens"). Lovely bit of percussive music. - 'I Ran': "Haiku". i ran to a man with whom i had nothing in common i ran to a man with whom i had no conversation - 'Potato Pie': Also listed as "Somedays Blue". A nice stompin' blues. I always thought KC could use a little more soul, and this is definitely a step in the right direction as far as these ears are concerned. - 'Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part 4': The guitars sounds brighter and punchier, and Trey's bass work and Pat's drums sound more lively. Overall, it doesn't sound as sterile as it does on _TCoL_. - 'Clouds': "Haiku". At first i thought this might be a rework of "Nuages" off _ToaPP_, but it clearly isn't. for a moment it seemed like the clouds stopped moving 'Einstein's Relatives' reminds me of Zappa's "Evelyn, A Modified Dog" off _One Size Fits All_. nobody loves me well, bugger me The final notes should be quite a shot in the arm for any long-time Crim fan. rone ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 00:31:15 -0700 (PDT) From: rone at ennui dot org (definitely what) Subject: Crimson Bebop I saw "Cowboy Bebop: The Movie" yesterday, and the introductory music to the movie was very reminiscent of the thumb piano intro to "Larks' I". The movie is excellent, so catch it when it hits theaters sometime next year. rone ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 14:52:21 +0200 From: "Eddy de Causmaecker" Subject: Being 45 and soaking up the late 60's prog rock in my pre teen years "Being 45 and soaking up the late 60's prog rock in my pre teen years I must say the first Tull and Yes did not even come close to where King Crimson debuted. No one did." I am 45 also, but I must say that Pink Floyd's "A Saucerful of Secrets" (68) and "Ummagumma" (69) were milestones in my observations of music at the time (along with ITCOTCK) Keep on Progging, Eddy Flycatcher flycatcher at zeelandnet dot nl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:30:18 -0500 From: "McLeod, Jeff" Subject: Happy lyrics & promising sound Howdy, folks... Just wanted to add in my thoughts on the lyrics on "Happy...". I'm pretty sure that he says: "This is where I'll sing. Through a distortion box -- to make it menacing." Really funny and goofy. I wonder how the song will end up... Also, after listening to the collage at the end of the EP, I'm REALLY hoping that the full-length will have that dry, immediate sound that I'm hearing on some of the new ideas. If they can keep that warm, minimal sound--with each instrument so very isolated sounding--I think this one could be truly amazing. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:27:12 -0500 From: Jamie Blasingame Subject: Re: Happy Lyrics I found the Matching Mole "Signed Curtain" lyrics and offer them up for dissection/discussion. -jme www.blackrootensemble.com > This is the first verse > This is the first verse > This is the first verse, the first, the first > And this is the first verse, first, first verse > And this is the first verse, first > This is the first verse > And this is the chorus > Or perhaps it's a bridge > Or just another part of the song that I'm singing > > And this is the second verse > 'n' it could be the last verse > And this is the second verse, second verse, the second verse > It could be the last verse, last verse > And this is the second verse > And it's prob'ly the last one > And this is the chorus > Or perhaps it's a bridge > Or just another key change > Never mind > It doesn't hurt > It only means that I've lost faith in this song > 'cause it won't help me reach you. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1047 *********************************