Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1046 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1046 Monday, 14 October 2002 Today's Topics: Happy Lyrics New CGT E-Card Earthbound booklet Beard-split, today's prog groups, metal, short albums... Re: Snow Re: Vocals as Instrument Ranking KC studio albums RF's legacy Almost Happy To Be Happy Ashbory Bass Unhappy with what you have to be unhappy with ELP's Epitaph Yes/ABWH Cds & Videos For Sale Mahavishnu and Crimso king crimson queens password for Heavy ConstruKction "Happy" is wonderful Crimson on Beat Club '73 Happy Brilliant & Eclectic Einstein's Relatives ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:27:07 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: Happy Lyrics David Beardsley wrote... > I'm gonna have to write a chorus, > We're gonna need to have a chorus, > And this would seem to be as good as any other place to sing it > until I'm blue in the face. Hmmm. Anyone familiar with Matching Mole's 'Signed Curtain' might find this a little unoriginal, of course. And of course, who produced MM's 'Little Red Record'? Ah-HA! :-) Mike Dickson, Elephant Talk Administration and Distribution ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:56:53 -0600 From: Jon Lybrook Subject: New CGT E-Card California Guitar Trio's newest release, CG3+2 is now available from InsideOut Music! The recording features collaborations with bass legend Tony Levin (currently on tour with Peter Gabriel) and percussionist and electronic music aficionado Pat Mastelotto. Please check out the Flash E-card announcing the album...and tell your friends! http://www.insideoutmusic.com/index-ecard-cg3.htm Flash required. In other news, the CGT have just had the music to Yamanashi Blues published by Cherry Lane Music in an anthology of seminal acoustic pieces entitled "Acoustic Instrumentalists". See http://cgtrio.com/yamanews.htm#musicbook for details. The CGT are hitting quite a few cities this fall. Their current tour schedule can be seen at http://cgtrio.com/yamanews.htm#tour. Hope to see you out there! Jon CGT Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:11:05 +0100 From: "Leigh Golland" Subject: Earthbound booklet The great thing aside the music in the latest remasters is the sleve notes. Of particular interest are the clips in the Earthbound booklet regarding the Fripp/Sinfield falling out. I find myself siding with the outcast Sinfield. I think the lyrics to Ladies of the Road are crap. They seem totally lacking in humour. To me they say "Hey we're not just middle class intellectuals we like flesh too. We are REAL MEN." Or perhaps the irony is just too subtle. I think Frank Zappa does it so much better as in the Groupie Routine etc., even the Floyds Summer 68 offers more lyrically. Maybe I'm just sexually repressed. Robby. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:22:09 +0300 From: "A.Demetriou" Subject: Beard-split, today's prog groups, metal, short albums... Dear ETers, Due to all these new and fascinating KC releases, I'm feeling quite inspired today. Well, not that much really. Anyway, I'll try not to be too long. Sorry for the non-KC stuff. [ From: "David Jackson" chiwite at hotmail dot com in ET # 1044 ] a I really dont like ([the new Spocks Beard Album] at all, this might not be the most educated judgment ont he album since I've only kind of listened to it twice, but thats only because I cant stand most of it. I love older SB like V, but the 50 extra minutes of Neal Morse ballads with barley anything backing him up on Snow is too much for me. It seems like its just filler so they could make a 2 disc concept album to compete with the new Dream Theater album, which I also really dont like(screw mike portnoy and his stupid leatard). I was wondering if anyone else shares this opinion about the current state of prog being almost dead. Maybe I'm just a weird fan since Lizard is one of my favorite albums.a Take a look at www.radiantrecords.com/nealnote.htm ... Thanks to divine intervention, Neal Morse has left Spock's Beard, but the latter still exists. We'll see how they work that one out. You won't be having any of those ballads anymore... But will you have that same musicality? I guess David's right, today's progressive giants don't seem have the musical intuition of their godfathers. Spock's Beard can be irritating and Dream Theater have their weaker moments. But not all is lost, I'm sure man of you could talk endlessly of current proggies who are worthy of the (early) seventies. On a more personal level, some might find it strange to be both a heavy metal and progressive rock fan but not a progressive metal freak, but that's the way I am. Transatlantic is (was, sorry) great however. I'm quite sure Transatlantic (and Dream Theater, of course) drummer Mike Portnoy knew all about Neal quitting SB and that's why he sent his 10/10 review of Snow to Rock Hard Magazine here in France... to help his friend's group whoas going to need some help to survive (they hasnat been a split). Since I mentioned heavy metal, I would like it if there was no more metal-bashing... Everybody has their tastes. I know that, as a teenager, I wouldn't have discovered KC without Led Zeppelin. And the Zep would have remained unknown to my ears without bands such as (eighties) Metallica. Which brings me to thrash. I know Robert Fripp once said he enjoyed Anthrax. Early thrash band were aggressive, but their music was more adventurous and complex than some of you seem to imagine. Megadeth's double-live testament, Rude Awakening, includes some great performances by all musicians. "She Wolf", on CD1, is one of my favorite moments in music, it's almost as powerful as the end of Starless - ok, I know, it's less majestic. Another example? The German speed-metal scene (Gamma Ray, Helloween, the two Avantasia albums...) is as melodic as metal can get. Ultimately, these bands lead us to Iron Maiden and I remember somebody on ET talking about their admirable guitar interplay. Yet Another thing about thrash is that some of the best albums of this genre are very short, which proves how much the person who mentioned the shortness of aHappya|a is right - no one can seriously criticize those very short yet brilliant Beatles albums. Well, for thrashers, the same goes to Megadethas aKilling is my Businessa| and Business is Gooda Slayeras aReign in Blooda. Both are under half an hour longa| Well, I think Iall stop all this not-so-KC talking and finish with the following questions: Are we allowed to talk about RFas sister, Patricia Fripp, whose site, www.fripp.com is letas say surprising? Are we allowed to talk about www.tyedye.com , a tremendous MP3 site which many famous and not-so-famous KC concerts, as well as other musical jewels? Sorry for having been so long and boringa| aHope this gets posted anyway. Cheers. Peace & Anarchy, A.D., www.thepublicstaticvoidmainers.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:49:10 -0400 From: psiogen at mindspring dot com Subject: Re: Snow David Jackson said: > This brings me to my next point which is the new Spocks Beard > Album. I really dont like it at all, this might not be the most educated > judgement ont he album since I've only kind of listened to it twice, but > thats only because I cant stand most of it. I love older SB like V, but the > 50 extra minutes of Neal Morse ballads with barley anything backing him up > on Snow is too much for me. It seems like its just filler so they could > make a 2 disc concept album to compete with the new Dream Theater album, > which I also really dont like(screw mike portnoy and his stupid leatard). I thought the same thing after I'd listened to it twice. Now I love the whole thing. (Well, except for maybe Solitary Soul.) The ballads definitely take more time to grow on you, but they have "got it" if you dig for it. Remember, with a 115 minute album, there's only so much you can absorb on just a few listens. -- Sylvan http://www.webcomics.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:34:40 -0400 From: Brian Preston Subject: Re: Vocals as Instrument Shelia Chandra with the King?!? Weird thought - might work- I can hear her floating on top of a gamelan counterpoint warr gtr piece. >No disrespect to Adrian Belew or John Wetton, but it would be incredibly >interesting if Crimson hooked up with a singer who really did approach >his/her voice as another instrument in the lineup. Uh, like Darryl Hall?? As I recall (from Exposure period) Bob himself was said to think Hall the ultimate singer (or somesuch). Who is it now Mr. Fripp? How about Ade with a few black girls for back up. Almost might work for the new fruit song from HTBHWW (Potatoe Pie is it?) How about a scat man? np: The Science Group later ************************************************************************* Brian Preston/Metaphoric Music Productions Smokin'Granny http://meta4ik.home.mindspring.com/smokingranny http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/smokingranny2 (sound files) Krimson News Radio http://www.live365.com/stations/crim75 (SG in rotation) Onomata http://www.umbrellarecordings.com/feature.html Groove Stream Attractor http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue20/groove01.html ******** ******** ******** ******** "When people are coupled together through musicking, each steers his or her own raft of subjectivity into the collective sea of neurodynamics." William Benzon in 'Beehtoven's Anvil: Music in Mind & Culture' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:56:11 +1000 From: "Igor A. Aleksandrov" Subject: Ranking KC studio albums THRAK Lark's Tongues In Aspic Lizard Islands Discipline The ConstruKction of Light In The Court Of The Crimson King Starless & Bible Black Red Three of A Perfect Pair Beat ("Requiem" rules) I love them all, except for maybe some tracks like Beat's "Two Hands" and "Waiting Man," as well as the repetitiveness of Red's "Red." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:59:26 +0000 From: "Marcelo Rodriguez" Subject: RF's legacy Hi again friends, It's very hard for me to issue an opinion about 21CSB, as I must confess I haven't listened to them (I am learning about them from all the posts sent to ET). Nevertheless, I guess the point is: what would be or should be the future of KC's music after Robert Fripp's departure? It's hard to say, but there's one thing that admits no discussion: RF has been the key for KC's musical development through the years; no matter what lineup or musical period we can talk about: he has always been there to give KC his personal touch (of course, always surrounded by superb musicians to give shape to his creativeness). But I wouldn't dare to say that KC *WAS* RF!!. That would mean to diminish the importance of the musicians that took part in the band's history! What's more, It's great if there's a band that can keep KC's spirit and take it beyond! So, if 21CSB sounds as fabulous as many people say, go ahead with it!. I tell you, I couldn't attend when KC came to my country, Argentina, so it's a new opportunity for me in case they decide to perform here in the future - I owe it to myself) Cheers, Marcelo MSN. Mas Util cada Dia. http://www.msn.es/intmap/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:09:07 -0400 From: J A Sontag Subject: Almost Happy To Be Happy Almost...really don't think the remake of Larks' IV has much purpose - almost sounds to me like a parody of KC as done by a not-as-bright metal band. Nothing wrong with the playing; but the tones are far more limited than the original. Otherwise, though, very interesting. For some reason, my impression is that of "Islands" as it would have been created by the current band, with "Potatoe Pie" the analog of "Ladies Of The Road", "Larks' IV" as "Sailor's Tale", "Eyes Wide Open" as "Formentera Lady", and the other quiet bits together as "Islands". Why that is the feeling that comes through, I don't know, but to me it does. I will admit, it whets my interest even more for the next album! Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:13:43 -0400 From: Tim Subject: Ashbory Bass > From: rone at ennui dot org (definitely what) > Subject: Ashbory Bass - Haiku filler > >> From: David Gargano > >> Everyone is in top form, but I only have one question - what the hell is a >> rubber bass? > > See . Very interesting reading. More interesting is that Trey Gunn isn't listed under the "Notable Players" section!! For shame... Tim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 21:34:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Jackson Subject: Unhappy with what you have to be unhappy with Soooo I went and got the ep and it cost me $15. And I want you to know its NOT worth it. There's only really just 4 songs while the rest are vocals and the last piece is a cut up of stuff. Although the title piece is interesting, the rest is trash. I expected my money's worth and got way less. This is a good sample CD at 5.99, not at 15! And here's why people do file-sharing: because you can hear for yourself before you buy. I'm not even interested in their new album. They already took too much of my money for too little! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:50:22 -0300 From: "The Necron Stratomailer" Subject: ELP's Epitaph "(...) when Dave playing an Acoustic Guitar alone sang the first verse of Epitaph - good moment (...) perhaps or was this part of ELP's repertoire when doing Tarkus originally." (thanx to Diderot for quoting this for me ^_^ ) After reading this, I went and took a listen to ELP's live album "Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends". The play the whole of Tarkus on it and include a little piece of Epitaph - The "Confusion will be my Epitaph" bit and some more. This album is from 1972 or so (1974 tops), so I guess they've been doing this for quite a while now. "(...)Greg Lake incredibly fat(...)" Oh my god what a very incredibly smart observation. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:05:19 -0300 From: "The Necron Stratomailer" Subject: Yes/ABWH >Sorry if someone already mentioned this, but there are striking >similarities between the 21CSB story and the story of ABHW/Yes. >Is ABHW Yes? The official Yes site now recognizes the ABHW album as a Yes >album. Tony Levin also plays on the Union album, which is an ABHW album >with a few Yeswest (Anderson/Squire/Kaye/Rabin) tracks. That's an interesting question... In this particular case, I would be inclined to say that ABWH was really YES because I liked that album more than anything YESWest did during the 80's. And Chris Squire wasn't such an important mastermind behind YES, so he wasn't really needed to come up with high quality stuff (The Anderson/Howe union probably did a lot more for YES anyway). But, at the same time, the continuity of YES includes all that 80's stuff, since Squire decided to lead on the band after Wakeman and Howe left and Anderson returned. This makes me think.... 21CSB cannot be Crimson, because most of its members had quit KC on their time, while Fripp decided to continue with it. There was no agreement between the band members - Crimson never "broke up", it just changed when everyone but BobFripp left it. However, like someone already said before, this discussion is stupid. I have yet to see what these 21CSB guys are doing, but I don't think they're trying to be KC, and I don't they would care to be anything like it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:29:53 -0400 From: "SumWhiteGuy" Subject: Cds & Videos For Sale Hey all, I have some CDs and videos for sale. Normally I would not post this on this list, but several may be of interest to member so this forum. First come first served. Shipping cost depends on what you get and how you want it shipped. CDs: Angra - Holy Land - $10.00 King Crimson - Cirkus: A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson Live 2CD - $12.00 Bill Bruford - If Summer Had Its Ghosts - $5.00 Bill Bruford's Earthworks - Earthworks - $5.00 Gordian Knot - Gordian Knot - $7.00 After Crying Live - Stuggle For Life 2CD (feat. John Wetton on bass & vox for a cover of "Starless") - $12.00 Divine Regale - Ocean Minds - $8.00 Trey Gunn - Raw Power - $8.00 Adrian Belew - Salad Days - $4.00 David Sylvian & Robert Fripp - The First Day - $4.00 Videos: Spock's Beard - The Making of V - $15.00 Yes Greatest Video Hits - $5.00 Metallica - S&M - $7.00 Metallica - Live Shit Binge & Purge - San Diego Videos 1&2 - $10.00 Pantera - Cowboys from Hell The Videos - $3.00 Please contact me with any questions at mau-tze at erols dot com or pokgaitsai at yahoo dot com. Jon. NP: King Crimson, "Happy With What You Have To Be Happy With" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 11:29:09 -0300 From: "The Necron Stratomailer" Subject: Mahavishnu and Crimso Marcelo wrote: > For instance, McLaughlin's swift loud arpeggios and furious guitar riffs are far different from RF's ambiental soundscapes. I could be less Crimsonly-Literate than I thought... But wasn't the Lark's Era KC very riff-based? The furious guitar riffs part should apply well to that KC... I don't know anything about Mahavishnu tho... just wanted to mention that. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:27:58 EDT From: Elfinster at aol dot com Subject: king crimson queens hi y'all. my partner, who is a broadway queen if there's ever been one, on noticing my almost incessant playing of things kc and incessant reading of elephant talk and incessant... well you get the idea told me that i'm as much a king crimson queen as he's a broadway one. i thought the notion was both a) funny and b) accurate (at least in my case). there's something of the collector in my relationship with kc's music (two things come to mind: "energy vampires" - great song by peter hammill in "the future now" and the perennial classic essay by walter benjamin dealing with collections and collectors. any ideas? have a good one. carlos schroder ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:20:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Wasser Dan Subject: password for Heavy ConstruKction I finally bought HC ... but I guess kingcrimsontv.com no longer exists. Would someone email their passcode to me ... so I can watch the concert video that's on on Disc 2? Thanks. [ Please see http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com/cgi-bin/passwords.cgi?cat=0013 -- Toby ] Dan crimsonkng at yahoo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:28:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Wasser Dan Subject: "Happy" is wonderful "Happy" is a fabulous CD! The title track is awesome ... blows my mind! Very heavy-duty ... reminds me of "Helter Skelter." That blues song - Potato Pie - is great. It's "Crimson" blues not "B.B.King" blues (I remember Adrian's mentioning that his "Modern Man Hurricane Blues" on Op Zop was a preview of future Crimson. I guess the future is here.) ... I was thinking ... Crimson is Red (and there's a song "Red," as we all know) ... Crimson Blues ... Red Blues ... wouldn't that make a cool title for a song: "Red Blues" ???? The lyrics to "Happy" are a riot. Adrian is, obviously, the genius behind Crimson these days. Can't wait for "The Power." Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:08:33 -0700 From: "Patrick Gaudin" Subject: Crimson on Beat Club '73 Dear List Members; I am new again to this list after several years, so I am not sure if this has been brought up, or if it's taboo to mention this item. I found a website that has extensive amounts of the "Beat Club" show, on DVD, of which Crimson appeared in '73. These episodes are sold mainly by 'best of' categories by year. I was very pleased to find out that the "Best Of '73" episode was available with Crimson performing "Larks Tongue In Aspic". I swiftly purchased the item. (I also purchased the "Best Of '71" which included Slade). Apparently Jamie Muir emptied a bag of leaves on the studio floor when the last song ended, but I'm not sure if this is included in the film yet. Here's the link to the item: http://www.cdxpress.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ecdxpress%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml&WD=beat%20club&PREVQUERY=SHOP%3d%26PAGE%3dSEARCH%26SS%3dbeat%2bclub%26TB%3dA%26ACTION%3dSearch&PN=Online_Catalogue_B_31%2ehtml%23a1851#a1851 Thanks for allowing me back on the ET list. Patrick Gaudin Rochester, NY ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:43:23 -0700 From: "David C." Subject: Happy Brilliant & Eclectic Many thanx to Fripp, Belew, Trey, Pat and all at DGM for the tease of the Happy EP. Covers the gamut. I always liked the segue ways utilized on Thrak and the vocal excerpts on Happy are real sweet. The tubular bellesque piece Shoganai is a gem. This band is in top form and after listening to all the new 24 bit remastered CD's of past releases the innovative and creative identity of K.C. remains futuristic. Adrian's witty sarcastic spark and pun and the metallic edge of the title track "Happy With" definitely puts the intelligence level of any modern day wanna be rock band in perspective. Granted, Pat has large shoes to fill. Challenge drives motivation; keeps you in check. We all think we can do it better. Join the club. Recently after having attended the latest RUSH concert at the Staples Center I caught a drum pattern in Neil's drum solo which had Bill written all over it and permit to say after hearing scores of live K.C.shows; nothing is permanent but change is. Different chops every night. Pat is fine. Being 45 and soaking up the late 60's prog rock in my pre teen years I must say the first Tull and Yes did not even come close to where King Crimson debuted. No one did. The irony of it all is that the first Genesis to Revelation resembled Moody Blues resembling Beatles. The first line up of K.C. was in orbit. The mass appeal was never there unfortunately. The impact is everywhere. I heard it on the 1988 Wishbone Ash release Noveau Calls. Discipline grooves all over it, Oingo Boingo Dead Man's Party to name a few. Do a double take on the twisted blues progression ala "King" on the opening of Zep's Tea For One. Now off the beaten subject I have a question for you all. Was Les Claypool ever in The Residents? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:40:05 -0400 From: "Ryan Tassone" Subject: Einstein's Relatives First of all, the high point of the EP is this bonus track, in my opinion. Edited in the same staccatto manner as Belew uses on Salad Days with "Return of the Chicken," it is part out-take dialogues, part new song teaser, and part just goofing off. I am particularly gladdened by Robert Fripp's speaking parts; it shows that he still has some of that impish charm which many people felt he lost in the Drive to '81. One of my favorite parts is where he blurts out a Frippism out of the blue ("The pieces move forwards towards final composition. We move forward by coming from.") and then bursts into laughter with the guys. He can also be heard saying "Ooo...isn't it SWEET?" as well as the absolutely hilarious, for-the-books line: "It's dear old Uncle Bobby." ATTENTION DETAIL FREAKS: the next Fripp soundbyte is the only recorded audio which includes Robert Fripp SINGING! "Ya-ta ta-ta ta-ta ta-te ta...it was HORRIBLE." I almost shit my pants! As for the Happy EP itself, I definitely noticed the obvious Belew-dominated sound and style. This is a touchy subject, no? I'm glad to see the man flex his compositional and lyrical muscle, but in a way I also appreciate the individuality of the Crimson sound, and I quietly hope the forthcoming album is more recognizably Crim. -The title track sounds almost childish--but in a good way, as I gather the song is a satire of rock cliches. I love chorus. This is very much a Crimson tune, and with some refining, could become a classic. -"Eyes Wide Open" sounds like it could be one of those songs Fripp will later remark "shouldn't have been brought to the band." Such things have been said about "People," "Two Hands," "Heartbeat," and other Belew pop songs. "EWO" is decidedly more cerebral and actually highly enjoyable (although, contrary to what someone mentioned, Belew is the one playing acoustic guitar, not Robert). The point, again, is that the song doesn't yet bear the Mark of Crim, as it were. -"Potato Pie" is a modified blues progression with mostly typical blues lyrics and improvisation. The references people have made to "Level 5" should not be interpreted as any actual intention by the band; there is only a passing resemblance between the two pieces. But this, like every new song on the EP, is distinctly more sparse and simple than the usual Crimson fare, and it also bears mentioning that there is no Fripp solo anywhere on the disc. -The haikus are alright, I suppose. The digital harmonizing effect gets a little blirpy and cheap-sounding sometimes, and perhaps the usage of such a sound hides the fact that the haikus are really not so great. At least that's my opinion. All this talk of Adrian should not be taken as bashing...when he comes to the fore in Crimson manner, in the "way of doing things" that has characterized the group's best work (many examples: "One Time," "Indiscipline," "Three of a Perfect Pair," "TCoL 2"), then I am in awe of his abilities. But so far, it looks like he's entertaining his solo-album side a little heavily on Happy. This is not to single him out! If the EP had been Trey-heavy, with tablas and Arabian scales on every song, I would have taken similar issue. Or Robert-heavy, as TCoL the album was, and suffered for it. Further, if the entire disc was like Masque, I would have probably deemed it too Pat-heavy. The goal is BALANCE. The balance needs to be achieved wherein all of the members can express their talents in the specific modality of King Crimson art. Ryan ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1046 *********************************