Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1042 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1042 Tuesday, 8 October 2002 Today's Topics: T.S. Eliot/Deception of the Thrush Re: 'progressive' , why not?/New Claypool The Power to Believe Vocals/instruments. Schizoid Band Is Indeed King Crimson Recreating improvs 21st Century Schizoid Band King Crimson '69 GILES, GILES, & FRIPP "The Brondesbury Tapes (1968)" "The Power To Believe" Looking for co-musicians in southern sweden. Mahavishnu Orchestrations Waaay off topic: White Stripes Ludicrous; Seger; Mahavishnu Orch and King Crimson Happy with what you have to be happy with Ligeti: A Fripp Influence? Long awaited New KC song Thrak remaster Re: Whose voice is it? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 03:41:07 +0000 From: "Douglas Robillard" Subject: T.S. Eliot/Deception of the Thrush Hi all, Just a note about T.S. Eliot. The phrase, "The deception of the thrush" occurs in "Burnt Norton," the first of Eliot's FOUR QUARTETS. One thing I've always liked about KC was the apparent literacy of its members! Best, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:50:45 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: Re: 'progressive' , why not?/New Claypool >Jack C. posted regarding an upcoming DVD with Les Claypool's version of >Thela Hun Ginjeet. In the track listing I noticed Galactic had a few >tunes in the mix. If you haven't heard Galactic, I would recommend >checking them out. They are a New Orleans funk outfit that rules. They >play some pretty intense music and have a guy on Hammond organ that plays >extremely well. Bela Fleck also performes on the CD/DVD... Bela Fleck and the Flecktones are described as "progressive bluegrass", so that is the only way this relates to this newsletter in anyway There are a lot of good bands on that festival, it is certainly worth checking out. While we are off subject talking about hardly related music topics, has anyone heard the new Les Claypool album? I just got it. It's different than I expected (even from a long time Primus/all things Les fan), but I do really like it.Any other thoughts on it, if its not too far off topic that is. I can't wait to see the Frog Brigade live next week. btw-I understand if this post doesn't make the cut, Toby. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:52:13 +0100 From: "Wafo" Subject: The Power to Believe In ET 1040, Ryan Tassone says about The Power to Believe, "I'm convinced that we're all witnesses to King Crimson's next landmark." I couldn't agree more. The title made me feel uneasy when I first heard it, but seeing the cover on the DGM site makes some horrible, powerful sense of it all. When I first heard TCOL, I had the feeling that King Crimson was laying down the gauntlet, making a political statement almost, to say "The nice King Crimson is dead - the new music is going to rip your head up and dance on the remains." The lyrics in TCOL convey the same feelings as the music - of being a man confused and torn to pieces in a world of ever-increasing complexity. But like Trey Gunn is quoted as saying in Sid Smith's book, it's the map but it isn't the treasure. Gunn says the treasure is in the live show, and that may be true, but I've really got the feeling that the treasure is certainly going to be evident in the new album. What remained after TCOL was to take the two very powerful strands of the new KC (the structured side on the main album and the chaotic side as heard in ProjeKct X) and weave them into one new form of music. Hearing the Level Five CD seems to confirm that this is exactly what Crimson is doing (and, of course, that's probably what "Nuovo Metal" is - a new form of music which blends rock, metal, industrial, drum & bass, ambient, jazz, electronica and a whole heap of other things into one powerful aural onslaught). Of course I may be totally disappointed when expectation is riding so high, but I do have the feeling that the new album will probably be the best yet. There is a definite sense of purpose in what the 90s/00s Crimson has been heading towards - and The Power to Believe is probably going to be the definitive statement. A related note: am I right in thinking now that the Happy EP is going to be delayed for a month in the UK (the DGM site suggests Europe sees a November release, with everywhere else getting it in October)? Anybody got any idea why? Wafo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:38:42 +1000 (EST) From: Will Dayble Subject: Vocals/instruments. Now this is quite long and rambley, I actually posted it on another web-board thingy, but I think it has a good bit of relevance and there is fair slab of Krim mentioned in here. I'd really like to know what the King Crimson-type people think of this. It's a different mentality on here. Feel free to bicker bicker bicker about this, I'm very open to being torn to pieces... :) (And if it's too long Toby it's chills to censor it to hell too!) --------- Okay. Well, vocals. One thing I think has been left in the dark here a bit, but touched on in the remark about 'vocalists' not being musicians. Now I don't normally say something is wrong, but to me that sentence really was. To me and MANY other people out there, the human voice is an instrument, just as a guitar, as is a drum. There was an interesting thread about this on the King Crimson mailing list about this a while ago, and it's King Crimson who are a damn good example of what I'm getting at here. Someone brought up the point that ANYTHING is an instrument. You could get all wanky existentialist about it, but the fact is that it's true. There was actually an orchestra comprised entirely of people playing vegetables. And they sounded good. (hehee... "When I've eaten my vegetables what do I do with their wheelchairs" ehem) When you think about it, a trash can lid is a cover for a rubbish recepticle until you turn it over and hit it with a stick, at which point you have a cymbal much the like the one in KC's 'One More Red Nightmare'. Our drummer in fact always looking for REALLY shitty cymbals that sound like trash can lids, 'cause it's an awesome sound. Now. If anything is an instrument if you play it in a musical way (and yes, that is subjective just like everything else), then the human voice is just another musical instrument. And of course you can look at it from the other side, as many do - and say that any instrument is a voice. People 'speak' through their instruments. Look at a good lot of the solos by people such as Eric Clapton, Robert Fripp etc. They COMMUNICATE something, albeit in a different way than a voice does. In fact, in many ways pure music can communicate things a lot better than a voice singing words, as lyrics can muddle and confuse the REAL message. Okay, here's a bit of a leap, but follow me: Everybody can play guitar. EVERYBODY. Granted though, only people who have had a fair bit of practice sound any good. Now, everybody can 'play' the human voicebox. And, becuase you have a fair bit of practice, with the whole SPEAKING thing, everybody to a greater or lesser extent can communicate musically with their voice. Some people, who have been playing guitar for as long as they've been speaking can 'talk' just as well with their guitars. It's just another way of sending messages from your brain to someone elses. All the really good guitarists can sing something, and then mirror it exactly with their guitar. So... yeah. Okay, I've rambled enough about that. Now, if you look it in a totally purist sense, yould see then that a voice is just another instrument. Now take Mike Patten (aka Faith no more/bungle/tomahawk fame). He has just recently done an EP with the Dillinger Escape Plan in which he 'plays' his voice in some VERY odd ways, like doing that thing where you wobble your cheeks and make a "burbaburbabruba" sound. And it works with the music. Now take the Deftones. In the song Knife Party the vocals shift into this AMAZING thing where it's just all these high-pitched almost screams, higher than I've ever heard a human voice go before. It actually sounds almost like a demented violin. He's 'playing' his voice differently. Now. Meshuggah. They are a GREAT exapmple of a band that views their singer pretty much totally as a percussion instrument. He 'sings' at exactly the same pitchless throaty growl in every song, occasionally adding a bit of pitch, in distinctly disjointed rhymth, which suits the music perfectly, 'cause that's what the band is all about. The difference between the Deftones thing and the Meshuggah is put BEAUTIFULLY in the song 'Elephant Talk' by King Crimson, where he quite simply just talks. In fact, he goes through from A to E listing all the different words that mean 'talk'. Burble.. banter, bicker! Bruha ha! balderdash, balleyhoo... buh buh buhcause it works in the song. It's another way of sending the 'message'. Now. What does this have to do with the original topic? The point is this: If you look at the human voice as just another instrument, with different qualities to a guitar or a drum or a trash can or a vegetable (hehehe, imagine playing your half-dead grandmother in a concert!... how very avant garde :\), then you can see that there really is no distinction from music 'with' or 'without' vocals. There really is too much music out there that is insubstantially between having and not having a 'singer' to classify it. But yeah, I think a good front man can make any band good. Shit. As can a good lead guitarist. Think frickin Steve Vai!!! He's the 'frontman', even though he doesn't sing. uhhhhh. shit. sorry. that was a bit long and rambley I'll shut up now. ===== Will Dayble. ------------<| Official nerd, ninja ----<| And all round idiot. ----<| www.innocentcabbage.com -<| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:08:35 +0100 From: "james.gemma1" Subject: Schizoid Band Is Indeed King Crimson My recent posting on ET seems to have generated some interest as to what is and what isn't King Crimson. I offer two definitions ?- 1) King Crimson equals the Robert Fripp way of doing things - Robert Fripp owns the name - Robert Fripp offers Quality Control.. 2) King Crimson equals King Crimson musicians playing King music to a King audience i.e if it looks like a duck walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then yes it really is a duck. By the second definition the 21 st CSB really is King Crimson they simply don't own the name but they do own the performance and the performance is King Crimson. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:45:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Recreating improvs Vince wrote: >Also, as far as "recreating Crimson improvs" is concerned, I have to >admit I find the idea pretty silly. I mean, they are improvisations >after all; better to just come up with your own, and possibly build your >original compositions from those. The thing about Crim's improvs, though, at least in 72 through 74, is that they often sounded composed. "Trio" and "Asbury Park" are classic examples of this. I would love to hear some of those classic improvs re-arranged for different instrumentation. Not "re-created", but, say, re-arranged for a horn quartet or something like that. --Art ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 02:25:35 +0100 From: "Bryan Lea" Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band > Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:33:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: Michael Stack > Subject: 21st century schizoid band > > Delurking long enough to make a statement... > > > Bryan Lea said: > > Make no mistake, this is no tribute band. These > > musicians have as much > > right to the name King Crimson as do Robert Fripp's > > occasional ensemble. > > Two quotes from the most recent ET, basically implying that this band is > King Crimson. I disagree. > > McDonald & Giles left on their own accord in '69, Collins left in '72, > again of his own accord. Peter Giles and Jakko were never actually in > Crimson. > Perhaps it would have been better if I'd used the word 'legacy' rather than 'name'. Nonetheless, it's not a point worth arguing, I think. I agree that the Schizoids aren't Crimson; that's not *quite* the impression I intended to give. Nonetheless, I think Mike is being a little unfair in some regards. I spoke to the band after the gig and the idea of forming was to see if there was any interest in the original style of King Crimson and if so, to what level. To that end, it makes perfect sense to cover material from the bands early years. As I understood McDonald and Giles (the men, not the album ;-)), if the recent tour, plus their forthcoming gigs in Japan suggest that the interest is there, they intend to go into the studio in 2003 and record an album of new material rather than a sampler of old. The idea is to show how the style could have developed if they had stayed with Crimso. So, not a tribute band. An alternative in the making. And on one point, just to be pedantic, take a look at the personnel for Poseidon. I think you'll find one Peter Giles listed as the bassist. But you're right.Jakko was never in Crimso, and he doesn't pretend he was. All the best. Bryan Lea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:15:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: King Crimson '69 Even if i said a couple of ETs ago the 21st CSB 'is' King Crimson, i'll correct myself: they're King Crimson 69. If the rest of the band had accepted 69 Fripp suggestion ("I offered to leave the band in order to keep it alive") this would have been the sound after that, no doubt. (I don't agree that a group of band members aren't King Crimson just because Fripp isn't in it. May be after 1970; yes. Carlos Romeo, i read your book and you can agree with me that Fripp wasn't the main composer in ITCOTCK not even the most important player(even if ITCOTCK wouldn't have been the same) , and his leadership of the band was shown a year later.) Anyway, the 'official' King Crimson is 33 yrs. old and they've evolved. That's good. Please don't start the discussion 21st CSB v/s King Crimson. Let's thank all guys they're playing our favorite music. Cheers, Edgar Kausel Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 22:40:52 -0500 From: CRAIG Subject: GILES, GILES, & FRIPP "The Brondesbury Tapes (1968)" Found these audio samples & descriptions on the Aquarius site (I have NO affiliation), & thought some here might find them helpful................ Enjoy! ~C GILES, GILES, & FRIPP "The Brondesbury Tapes (1968)" (Mister E) cd Delightful, somewhat melancholy pop-psych with jazz and folk flavorings from this obscure pre-King Crimson outfit. (Michael) Giles, (Peter) Giles & (Robert) Fripp released an LP on Decca in 1968 that was not a commercial success (not too surprising since their label described them in press materials as "one of countless groups who have come to London with the vain hope of making good" -- a style of humor that may have backfired on this Monty Python-esque looking group). Undaunted (well, perhaps somewhat daunted), the trio carried on, building a primitive home studio in their flat at 93a Brondesbury Road and turning out quite a few amazingly well-done tracks with just a second-hand Revox F36 stereo tape recorder and some old microphones and a makeshift mixer. These songs appear on this cd for the first time (mostly). There's some really lovely stuff here, much of which benefits from the presence of ex-Fairport Convention singer Judy Dyble (Fairport's pre-Sandy Denny female vocalist) and her musical cohorts, songwriting partners Ian McDonald and Peter Sinfield. These three met up with the GG&F trio via a Melody Maker ad, and, aside from these long-lost tapes, eventually made rock and roll history when McDonald and lyricist Sinfield became part of King Crimson along with Fripp, Michael Giles, and Greg Lake, for that group's groundbreaking "In The Court of The Crimson King" debut. So, one audience for this "Brondesbury Tapes" cd would certainly be Crimson fans curious about the origins of that band. True Crim heads will recognize some of their material here in early form. But, you'll find nothing like "21st Century Schizoid Man". This is a fine record in its own right, more pop than prog, both eerie and whimsical, demonstrating both Beatles and Beach Boys influences, and incorporating UK folk-psych sounds that of course recall both Fairport and the more gentle, pastoral stuff done by early Crimson. Quite nice! And, actually, quite a bit better than Decca's offical Giles, Giles & Fripp release, if only because it doesn't suffer from Fripp's silly/annoying narration all throughout (another bit of British humor that didn't really work for GG&F). The liner notes provide a detailed history of the group and, from Peter Giles, details of their multi-track recording methods (layering overdubs by bouncing tracks back and forth on a 2-track machine) complete with schematic charts illustrating the process. He's rightly proud of what they managed to accomplished, back in the days before home studios were commonplace. RealAudio: http://aquariusrecords.org/audio/ggfitalk.rm RealAudio: http://aquariusrecords.org/audio/ggfwhy.rm RealAudio: http://aquariusrecords.org/audio/ggfdigging.rm RealAudio: http://aquariusrecords.org/audio/ggfunder.rm http://aquariusrecords.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 05:18:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Wasser Dan Subject: "The Power To Believe" I haven't seen it mentioned that "The Power To Believe" comes from one of Adrian's songs on Op Zop Too Wah (an EXCELLENT solo album). In the song: "All Her Love Is Mine," he says: "... when she gave me back, the power to believe." A very powerful line in a very powerful song. That song, and "On," on Op Zop, freak me out every time I listen. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:25:35 +0200 From: Stefan Emanuelsson Subject: Looking for co-musicians in southern sweden. Hi all! Me and my oldtime friend Matthias (aka Tesla) was talking about forming a group. Past formations have not accomplished much, often (imho) due to lack of open-mindness of sorts. The easy way of forming a group is by stating references, such as what bands to like. That approach has so far taken us nowhere. Start off the band with a few covers of that inspirational group, and the whole project is dead for sure. So there won't be much references to KC here, although I do like that group. We're looking for bass, keys, and vocals. Or maybe something entirely different. Preferably people with ideas. Most important is that our personalities don't clash, and that we get a good feeling from playing and working together. We live around Helsingborg in southern Sweden, it would be nice if you did too. Is this you? Mail me at 'stefan at montania dot se'. We are: Matthias 30, plays drums, has been inspired by Neil Peart, Billy Cobham, Bill Bruford and others (like Ozric Tentacles). Stefan 32, plays guitar. Have been inspired by RF, Alex Lifesson and others (like Mekong Delta). We're not the best of the best, but where not all that bad either. We both work daytime and have girlfriends, so the projekt is to be a 1-2 nites/week thing. To start with at least. Hope to be hearing from you! On open-mindness: To believe in something not yet proved and to underwrite it with our lives it is the only way we can leave the future open Man, surrounded by facts permitting himself no surprise no intuitive flash no great hypothesis, no risk, is in a locked cell Ignorance cannot seal the mind and imagination more securely --Lillian Smith, The Journey, 1954 /Stefan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:37:49 -0600 From: "Michael Cox" Subject: Mahavishnu Orchestrations NajiBaji at aol dot com rrote: > I would be interested to know if there were any acknowledgments or > statements from members of KC on the MO. Yes and no. Fripp is a great admirer of McLaughlin's, but claims not to listen much to the music BECAUSE he doesn't want to pick up too much of his direction - he wants to develop his own vision rather than incorporate others into it - very wise, I think. At least that's what I get from a wonderful article somewhere on the Elephant Talk website where Fripp actually interviews McLaughlin (and incidentally consumes a huge amount of sweets). McLaughlin treats Fripp with great respect as well in the interview. Sorry I don't have the URL handy but it's a must-read and worth looking for. Michael Cox ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:34:37 -0700 From: "Jonathan" Subject: Waaay off topic: White Stripes "lawrence moseley" writes: > > The only downer of the evening was this guest duo. White Stripes I > had not heard of before this and have no wish to hear from them > again. The sister drummer looked and sounded feeble with a splashy, > all the same approach more akin to a kid with it's mum's pots and > pans. Older? brother on punk style vox and guitar and an accurate > (guest?) bassist. They made garage band renditions (if correctly > played ie chord wise) of Yardbirds classics. I hope this gets edited > off the DVD etc. FWIW, the Stripes (and the Strokes, Vines, Hives, etc.) are credited with leading the anti-prefabricated-BritneySpears neo-garage-band backlash in popular music. Back to basics and yet, somehow, they still manage to get airplay. I agree that Meg White is a basic-to-sucky drummer, but think that Jack White is an excellent guitarist, performer and bluesman. They play a lot of ancient blues songs that I never really appreciated before (Bol Weevil, Send me an Angel, Death Letter). Hardly prog, but quite fun. Visit http://www.whitestripes.net/downloads.html and http://www.universalbuzz.com/catalogresults.asp?ArtistNumber=187 to listen. Thin-to-none Prog/KC content: I have a couple of extra Stripes live CDRs lying around (their shows are short; one fits on a single CD). Anyone want them? I'll happily to send them out for nada, but a nice 2002 Crimson or Pre-Lamb-era Genesis live CDR would be cool to have in trade. Write to me at jonathan[at]dcsma[dot]org Having typed all of this, I am concerned that this message lacks KC content and so may not get past Toby. (Hi Toby!) I will therefore join in with some ETesque comments. I just wanted to put in a thanks to all those ernest, bearded, bespectacled and attentive audients who, in addition to taking no flash photos, generously gave gig reviews of the Schizoid Band. Beast! Beast! To those still dwelling in the basement of TCoL: it is clearly time to move on. Out of the basement an into the Vicarage! How was that? I fear I have not yet mastered ET-speak. :) Looking forward to the next KC CD, Jonathan PS I miss Josette [ Don't we all -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 17:47:14 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Ludicrous; Seger; Mahavishnu Orch and King Crimson >I guess what's ludicrous is that no real Tull or Metallica fan would consider the former a heavy metal band. It is ludicrous to consider any band that plays the first four bars of Aqualung the way Tull recorded it is not a heavy metal band in some sense of the words. (I enjoy both bands.) >P.S. I hate Bob Seager. An obvious troll >The more I listen to the first two Mahavishnu Orchestra albums: the Inner Mounting Flame and successive recordings made in 1971-73 and reflect on the way KC responded with LTIA, SBB, and Red. I cannot help but hear the direct influence of MO on KC. It is all very beautiful and complimentary music. I would agree with you if I had not read the Musician Magazine interview of McLaughlin that was done by Fripp, way back in the early 80s. Fripp says that he consciously avoided listening to the Mahavishnu Orchestra because it was too seductive to him - he felt he would be influenced by it if he did. He reckons that Bruford was in fact influenced by Cobham and the MO, however. I agree with you that the music is very similar and that anyone who enjoys The Talking Drum on LTIA would also enjoy The Noonward Race on Inner Mounting Flame by JM and the Mahavishnu Orchestra. > - CAT FOOD >Yeah, the original is great, but the Schizoid Band really stretch out on it, adding lots of improv after the verses. Michael Giles's drumming was ever playful and inventive. Do they get enough piano playing on the cut to convince you? >Anyway, don't you think that the fact they are beginning their new band (aka King Crimson --sorry Bob) touring in the UK make all the concept more nostalgic? They are touring the UK because it is easier for them to do logistically. - S. np: Jethro Tull, Living in the Past scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:54:25 -0400 From: "Matthew Dunlop" Subject: Happy with what you have to be happy with Preordered this a couple weeks ago from DGM. Went to Best Buy for blank cd's and on a whim walked to the King Crimson cd's. Ecstatic unsurpassable elation. They had the new EP!!!! I'm still getting it in the mail but passing it up there was near impossible. My thoughts follow, for those who want no expectations I suggest you not read on. Will try not to spoil too much. First off the short haikus. They are much more musical than you could imagine. Won't give away too much but the soundscapes and vocals on them are nothing short of brilliant and propel the album nicely. The songs: Title track (I don't feel like typing it too many times. I guess it needs an acronym like we refer to the rest so: HWWYHTBHW. LOL. HWWHBW. Nope. Aw well. Maybe just Happy.) Very rocking track. Reminds me of a lot of stuff on modern rock radio, but of course a hell of a lot better. The discussions on ET about dj equipment was interesting, because this has some very turntablish noises (the Projekcts did too though if I recall correctly). I can tell already this song is going to be a new addiction. Straightforward 4/4 for a lot of the tune (although pat's pulling off all sorts of other signatures). The great part is when they hit the "happy" line and go into a standard ultra-odd signature. Some circular repetition of the title is very cool sounding. The notes say this is a "tone probe edit". Not sure what that means. They also happen to say "A Tone Probe edit from the forthcoming album "EleKtriK". Wait a minute. Does this mean this was made when they had a THIRD album name in the works? Does that mean this is pretty rare? Cool. Eyes Wide Open. Gorgeous. Beautiful. The notes designate this as an "acoustic" version. I don't know if a regular version has yet been made or is planned, but this is a fully developed studio tracks with acoustic guitars. Can't imagine it *without* the acoustics. Shogonai. I have absolutely no idea how they went about making this one. Bell type percussion sounds throughout. Very nice arrangement too. [ "shoganai" I think it is. Japanese colloquial for "It can't be helped" or "whatever..." -- Toby ] Potato Pie. I'm writing this as I listen to the album for the very first time and oh sweet jesus. This is a 'blues' written around Level 5. Complete with guitar solo and swing drum and bass. I'm sure there will be a lot of various complaining about this, but it's just an EP folks. Stuff they did on a whim in studio to tide us all over. And thank you King Crimson for it. Larks Tongues in Aspic (Part IV). Oh wait you say you've heard this one before. Well.. maybe you have, maybe you haven't. Well.. basically you have. This one has some atmospheric intros and an even more intense sound. Fripp's solo is basically the same. Adrian's solo is always as unique and jarring as usual. Oh yeah and for all you purists, Pat's playing mostly acoustic drums. Yeah that's right. No samples or triggers. Thought you'd enjoy that. The "cheesy" lyrics on the coda have been cut out (I loved them actually). Looks like the boys still read some ET. Clouds. Well.. this is basically a haiku. Followed by some silence. A brilliant bunch of studio jams, banter, etc etc etc all collaged together. Suffice to say I'm very happy with what I have to be happy with. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 21:42:15 -0500 From: "Michael Classified" Subject: Ligeti: A Fripp Influence? Hello. This is my first post to Elephant Talk, even though I've been reading it for quite some time now. I was listening to some collected keyboard works of Gyorgi Ligeti, and noticed something. His pieces sound a lot like Robert Fripp's composition style, even though some of the pieces predate Fripp's earliest recordings by several years. This was especially evident in Ligeti's Harpsichord piece "Continuum" and several organ pieces. It got me thinkingis Ligeti an influence of Fripp's? If not, then I still strongly recommend you to Ligeti's works. You may have to special order them through a music store or online, as Ligeti is not the most famous composer. Thanks! Mick -- http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:28:54 +0200 From: "Marek 'crimson Labuda" Subject: Long awaited New KC song Marek Labuda Hello Everybody! I just wanna tel. all of You, that we all may hear new KC song from forthcoming album. We can hear it from KNRadio, just be patient - it will show up from time to time. My first opinion (I heard it once), is KC become really Heavy Prog Band. I don,t want to blame the Band , or say is good or bad of course, but lets hear this song and tell me, if I'm wrong when I'll say KC brung a huge lesson together with Tool last year. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 03:35:21 -0400 From: "Matthew Dunlop" Subject: Thrak remaster At the same time I picked up Happy I also got the Thrak remaster. Already there's been a lot of speculation as to why this remaster was necessary, and what was being done. Listening to both revealed to me absolutely no differences. No remixes, no overdubs. Same exact music everywhere. So I took it over to my beloved Sound Forge, and did spectrum analysis on 3 songs, B'Boom, Thrak and One Time. Basically a spectrum analysis shows the decibal level across the frequencies. I did the analysis on the same chunk of samples in a randomly selected portion of each song. The images can be found at: http://larryboy.tvheaven.com/index.html Note this page is about 500 kb's worth of JPG files (didn't want to make them too small, as the info at the bottom is in small letters). Basically you can see that there IS a difference, and that difference is standard across the tracks. Namely, the difference is that the highs roll off over 20000hz. I have absolutely no idea what this means though. You can also see that some "spikes" in frequency have been smoothed out in places. I'm guessing these are simply a result of sourcing all the material to 24 bits. Perhaps someone around here can explain better why the change is what it is (or tell me that my comparison really tells us nothing except that they are in fact different). I for one feel that the new packaging was enough to buy the album again (considering that I will also sell the old one to a used cd store). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:02:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: Re: Whose voice is it? I remember "the voice" saying, This is the part of the show where I talk to you. Bob "All Chuckles" Fripp making you laugh with my deft lying and repartee; and cosmic humor...I respond to enthusiasm... I don't recall that any of the other members had any speaking parts on the 4-cd set. All of the other voices are from the audience. At another show someone from the audience shouts, "Billy Cobham eat your heart out!" I wonder why Cobham was mentioned. Was he supporting them? This would have been during the "Spectrum" period I guess. I liked "Spectrum" and the album that came out immediately afterwords, "Crosswinds". >I've always wondered who was doing the talking on >the Great Deceiver box? Is it Fripp or Wetton? ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1042 *********************************