Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1041 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1041 Monday, 7 October 2002 Today's Topics: prog rock and fun... About moonchild Crimson At The Library Whose voice is it? Re: USA Sir Henry at Rawlinson End A Sodalist Solace Observance of Odds & Ends, Part 1 TS Eliot Modern Crimson 21st Century Schizoid Band Re: Starting to get excited... 21st Century Schizoid Band Re: Starting to get excited... Re: Bob Seger Re: Magellan Re: Mahavishnu Orchestra`s influence on KC Anekdoten & KC Re Keith Emerson and the Nice - KC content Re: Red Nightmare Band/Prelude (ET #1039) first two Mahavishnu Orchestra LPs vs. King Crimson the song 'Cage' Re: Terry Bozzio/Billy Sheehan-Nine Short Films ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 13:54:59 +0000 From: "lawrence moseley" Subject: prog rock and fun... Hi Crim heads, A little light hearted fun for the prog oriented fan. I, er, liked this... >|[] Copy into browser time.... http://www.afroanglo.com/progrock.html regards Lawrence ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:56:48 +0000 From: "Marcelo Rodriguez" Subject: About moonchild Hi all, I have been seeing several messages about KC's songs people dislike, or at least don't like too much, and one of the tracks everybody mentions is "Moonchild", especially the last instrumental part of it. In this respect, I strongly disagree with those opinions, as I think that the whole song is beautiful, and (at the same time) ethereal, deep and introspective. We should not disregard the instrumental part, as it fits perfectly with the first, melodical part, and even the lyrics. In my opinion, lyrics are incredibly beautiful, and also very suggestive... I could say the word "suggestive" applies to all the song, as it makes me think of a journey through a magical dream, with colourful landscapes, as if I took part in a children's book as a character, but in a way that reminds me those Syd Barrett's songs, (you know what I mean, ah?). Cheers, Marcelo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:31:18 -0400 From: "Labbauf, Les" Subject: Crimson At The Library In ET 1037 Jeramaya Mentioned Crimson In His Local Library: >> Someone made an analogy of the library and file-sharing. Well, it's funny >> because in my hometown(very small) there is a king crimson cd(I believe >> it's TOAPP). Also, in my current digs library I noticed online that they >> have some KC. Sometimes I forget that libraries have some great stuff. I >> don't go to them ever because I have so many books of my own that I haven't >> read. Since they have some KC though, and it's free, I think I'm going to >> have to check it out. I used to work at the local library in Harrisburg (Dauphin County Library), and was able to influence some of the music selections. Currently they have a pretty large collection of Crimson music, which can be searched at www.dcls.org. You would be amazed at the selections available at your local library, and if they don't have it available, what ever music you are looking for could be found through an itner library loan, check it out!! Les ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:18:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Clayton Subject: Whose voice is it? Hey, fellow crim-heads! I've always wondered who was doing the talking on the Great Deceiver box? Is it Fripp or Wetton? I have a hard time picturing Robert in the spotlight , giggling over his own "repartee". Help, anyone? BTW, I really don't have any songs I hate by Crim - I've been a fan since 1979 or so when I picked up a cassette version of SABB in the cutout bin at a discount store! Still have it. I only bought it because of Bruford, but as soon as the riff for Great Deceiver started, I was hooked! Being an old RECORD fan, I listen from start to finish anyway, it's a pain to skip songs on record. I assume the CD raised generation misses out on tunes that might grow on them with repeated listening because of the programming features. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:58:33 -0400 (EDT) From: david craig Subject: Re: USA > Well I understand that it was probably because of vinyl time > constraints... but there must be a recording of it before it was cut down > for the record, right? I, for one, would have been very grumpy indeed had they messed around with the original releases tracks substantively. Places for that kind of thing are bonus tracks and compilations. The original release ought be left intact, for better or worse. (For better, in my opinion -- USA is a ferociously beautiful record. I absolutely adore pretty much every second of it.) USA was a formative record for me. Played at appropriate moments, I've also brought a number of crimheads on board with it. I've been anticipating its release for the better part of a decade. Woo hoo! David Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 20:54:58 +0000 From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Sir Henry at Rawlinson End Regarding "Bryan Lea" 's email signature: >It is almost three years since Madge and Bobby Rawlinson pulled up >roots >and were arrested by the parks department. (The mandrakes >screamed!) > >Jeremy Sphincter has sailed for Australia after the poultry scare. (We > >won't mention HIM again.) > >Old Mr. Trilonious stays on at the farm, now a broken man and an >incurable >alcoholic. Apart from his regular visits to the village shop >for a couple >of tins of "Ready Rub", he hardly goes out at all. And >diverts his >remaining years to breeding those beautiful guppies for >which he is so >rightly famous. What a wonderful rush, to read the words of the late, great, demented genius, Vivian Stanshall, in the pages . . . er . . . screens of ET. Thanks for the snippet, Bryan. Look Out, There's A Monster Coming! Required KC content :) Ian Wallace was 1/4 of Neil Innes' post-Bonzo project 'The World'. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:51:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Terry Kohm Subject: A Sodalist Solace Observance of Odds & Ends, Part 1 There have been an extensive scale of rapier slashing on the auditory perspective of thee first 3 or 4 K.C. albums ... Well actually, the King's complete royal catalogue raisonn`e has been thrashed once or twice. So ... nobody feels left out! I think this is stemmed from one's personal social period of life and various ages that they were originally introduced to the JOLLY WORLD of MR. FRIPP. But think of what K.C. or all the other following progressive disciples would be, if these virtuous ground breaking renaissance phonographic recordings never were visualized and audibly obtainable. I myself find these early treasurable works to be of the upmost in fantasy inventiveness in our modern century. An old fangled dogpatch saying, "If ya ain't likes them there 'ol tunes. Don't hears 'em!" Still rings out loudly. But everything has it's own purpose. Crimson would'nt be where they are at, as artists, without this intuitive evolution. Even if you may not like it. Gustav Holst's - THE PLANETS / DEVIL'S TRIANGLE - Fripp's rendition I believe was really ment for live recital. The raw dimensionally dramatic two reverberantly treated full combat Mellotron M400's were rightfully awe inspiring live. Has anyone heard THE BATTLE on Hans Zimmer's soundtrack GLADIATOR? His is yet another well conceived interpretation based on this haunting theme. FOR GUITARISTS qIN GENERAL & The nice chap who wanted a cheap FRIPP - IN - A - BOX . First ... an Ebow & a Fernandes Sustainer / Sustainiac are basically the same, an electro magnet. The only differences is, the Ebow is hand held and works only on 1 string at a time. Now the Sustainer / Sustainiac pickup perse works on 6 strings at once and is mounted directly into the guitar. MR. FRIPP'S ORIGINAL 1973 - 74 EQUIPMENT A) Latter 50's Les Paul Custom, 3 PAF humbucking pickups w/o covers, a solid honduras mahogany body w/ carved top ( no maple cap ), medium high action, John Tuner Strings - lt. to med. mix, lt. triangular tortoise - shell pick. B) Volume pedal - FARFISA ( by C.M.I. ) C) Wah wah - VOX, used as an active tone control D) Fuzz box - BURN'S BUZZAROUND E) Wah / fuzz - bypass out of circuit A - B switch F) Echo unit - WATKINS KOPY KAT G) Amp - MARSHALL SUPER LEAD 100 watt full stack, used for a period but changed to a HIWATT CUSTOM 100 full stack w/ ELECTRO - VOICE speakers, strictly valves / tubes all the way. This was plugged into the brilliant ch. w/ a jumper to the normal ch. H) Movable digets - HANDS of the DEXTEROUS CRIMSON MONARCH Thats's it for now, I've got to go change the tape on my 'ol buddy, REVOX A77. TURTLE DA MANNNNN OF TURTLE CIRCUS Oh PS. There is a Martin Barre interview at VINTAGE GUITAR . COM, That shows TULL'S point of view of the METALLICA / CREST OF A KNAVE debate. PS. PS. Hey , BIG CANNONS STEVIE ... Where's my COPY ? KIEL AUDITORIUM MAY 12 , 1973 THE K.C. GIG ST. LOUIS ((( Mississippi ))) MISSOURI , USA I WAS THERE !!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:06:37 -0300 From: Javier Lopez de Casenave Subject: TS Eliot Dear ET'rs, about T.S. Eliot's The Waste Land, The Deception of the Thrush, and the choice of Trey Gunn... Well, let me see... Eliot said to Donald Hall in 1963: "...in The Waste Land I did not care even if I did understand what I was saying." (D. Hall, "Interview with T.S. Eliot", 1968; Spanish version of an interview for "Paris Review"). For more distrustful readers: "I know that part of the poetry I admire is a poetry I did not understand in my first lecture; another part is poetry which I am not still sure if I understand" (T.S. Eliot, "The use of poetry and the use of criticism", 1933). Now replace "poetry" for "music", and "lecture" for "listening"... "Talk, it's only talk / Arguments, agreements, advice, answers, / Articulate announcements / It's only talk" Sorry for mismatches in the translation from Spanish backwards into English (or something similar...). javier ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:01:33 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Breis" Subject: Modern Crimson 'The ConstruKction Of Light' is amazing. 'Level Five' is crushing. I believe that 'The Power To Believe' will have the power to destroy nonbelievers and blow away the people who already know. I am looking forward to this new album, I must say. Fripp has not failed us yet. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:43:49 -0700 (PDT) From: ProgNaut at webtv dot net (Ron) Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band are the cds discussed available for sale in America? - Ron Fuchs www.ProgNaut.com "a progressive music fan & review site" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 01:55:46 -0600 (CST) From: TIMOTHY GUEGUEN Subject: Re: Starting to get excited... On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Elephant Talk wrote: > > Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 09:28:35 -0400 > From: "Ryan Tassone" > Subject: Starting to get excited... > > I'll admit, when I first heard the new King Crimson album title, I thought, > "This is a big mistake. King Crimson is finally at the end of their rope." > Because, honestly, on face value, "The Power to Believe" sounds like > something you might hear from the likes of Yes, John Tesh, or Celine Dion. The jump from Celine Dion to KC isn't that great of one given that Peter Sinfield's post KC career path has included writing lyrics for dear ole Celine to sing. :-) tim gueguen 101867 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:33:58 +0100 From: "God of Thunder" Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band My review and photos from the 21st Century Schizoid Band Crewe gig can be found on my website: www.god-of-thunder.immortals.co.uk Mark L. Potts The God of Thunder www.god-of-thunder.immortals.co.uk This website is not suitable for the cataplectic ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 09:41:31 -0400 From: Martin Roberts Subject: Re: Starting to get excited... Ryan Fairly nice analysis of your thoughts concerning the potential new KC direction. However, your inclusion of YES with the 'likes' of John Tesh and Celine Dion is absurb. No other comment is necessary! Martin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 09:24:12 -0500 From: "Loren Claypool" Subject: Re: Bob Seger >P.S. I hate Bob Seager. Bob Seger! Bob Seger! How could you... Just kidding. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:15:23 -0500 From: "Loren Claypool" Subject: Re: Magellan > A recent post inquired about the band Magellan and I have some thoughts. > > Magellan is a decent prog band, probably more in the mold of Dream Theater > than King Crimson, consisting of two brothers (whose names escape me). > They have a heavy, precise sound and have some decent vocal arrangements. > On a tribute album called "Tales From Yesterday" they perform an excellent > version of Yes's "Don't Kill The Whale" (a song I dislike in its original > form). I would check out some sound clips online (legal if at all > possible) before buying as I personally think they lose focus at times. I agree with Mr. Wicker's comments above, particularly on the earlier works, and add a few more details. The two brothers are Trent and Wayne Gardner. Trent Gardner is the creative force behindLeonardo and The Explorers Club. In addition to the Dream Theater feel, I've always heard a connection to another Magna Carta artist, Cairo, as well. Magellan just released their fourth album, Hundred Year Flood. IMO, there is a maturing over the four albums re: focus. I enjoy this latest effort very much and recommend it. The opening cut is over 34 minutes in length and is a gripping piece of music. Sound samples are available at http://www.magnacarta.net. Loren ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 10:34:33 -0500 From: CRAIG Subject: Re: Mahavishnu Orchestra`s influence on KC >The more I listen to the first two Mahavishnu Orchestra albums: the Inner >Mounting Flame and successive recordings made in 1971-73 and reflect on >the way KC responded with LTIA, SBB, and Red. I cannot help but hear the >direct influence of MO on KC. Definitely. It`s most noticeable on LTiA. That was my first reaction when hearing it upon it`s release in `72-3? (I can`t recall now). The time signatures, the violin, & the way they use dynamics is all very Mahavishnu-like, but then there have been scores upon scores of bands/musicians who were profoundly impacted by MO, so it should come as no surprise. ~Craig PS: A related article of interest would be Fripp`s interview of McLaughlin for Musician magazine.... "Coffee and Chocolate for Two Guitars" by Robert Fripp (Musician July 1982) ...which is no longer on the ET site........... Perhaps elsewhere? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 11:18:31 -0600 From: "MSc. Christian Hess Araya" Subject: Anekdoten & KC A couple of weeks ago, someone on the list pointed me towards Anekdoten, the Swedish band that was supposed to parallel the "Red" period of KC. I visited their website (www.anekdoten.se), downloaded the free samples they have there, burned a cd, gave it a couple of passes, and now I'm sold! While the great "Apoteosi del mistero" is more like in the ITCOTCK-era, the remaining samples truly point towards mid-period KC, which is my personal favorite. One of the songs closely resembles the intro to "Easy Money". Actually, I would describe Anekdoten as a cross between the "Red" era KC and the "Moving Pictures" era Rush. Fabulous, heavy, dark sound. So now I'm on the lookout for their three studio albums (there's another on the way). BTW, this has also made me greatly interested in the Swedish progressive scene in general. I've heard good things about Anglagard, plus some excellent music by Isildur's Bane. So, while I can't seem to remember who this particular ET-er was, I'd like to say thanks for your excellent suggestion! Christian Hess San Jose, Costa Rica ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 19:51:58 +0100 From: "allanm" Subject: Re Keith Emerson and the Nice - KC content Was lucky enough to be at the Keith Emerson & the Nice concert in Glasgow last night. Superb -the first time I had seen Keith play live - missed ELP in the 70s as always seemed to have other bands to see. Good to see him with Bruce Davison and Lee Jackson. They performed "America" first and then four other Nice tracks including "Cry for Eugene" and "Country Pie" - all excellent. Keith then did three tracks from his "Emerson plays Emerson" including "Occasion All(e)y" , Blade of Grass and another,the name of which I did not pick up. He then introduced the rest of the Band - Dave Kilminster(who played Guitar with the Nice initially and returned) along with two other guys on Bass and Drums. Dave Kilminster was superb all night with good rapport with Keith especially during "Country Pie" where there appeared to be a bit of improvisation which went down very well. The band then, minus Lee and Bruce, played the ELP tracks - Hoedown,Tarkus and the Fanfare for the Common Man. Tarkus was amazing with Dave K. playing the melody line instead of vocals until the last vocal part of Tarkus. Very impressive but the best of Tarkus was left till last when Dave playing an Acoustic Guitar alone sang the first verse of Epitaph - good moment although I am not sure many of the audience recognised it. An Emerson tribute to Greg Lake in absentia perhaps or was this part of ELP's repertoire when doing Tarkus originally. Whatever, it rounded off a very good night. The way Keith and Dave interacted may augur well for more from them in the future. Allan Confusion will be my epitaph ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:45:27 -0700 From: Steve Arnold Subject: Re: Red Nightmare Band/Prelude (ET #1039) In Elephant Talk #1039, Gordon Taylor wrote: [snip] > Contrary to what someone suggested in ET 1037 "Prelude: Song of > the Gulls" sounds nothing like Barber's "Adagio for Strings". > However the KC tune does sound like a track called ......wait for > it......"Prelude" from the "Chicago" album (the one that > includes "25 or 6 to 4"). The Chicago track is taken at a faster > pace but deft use of the pitch control reveals a great > similarity. > > The Chicago track is dated 1970 and the KC track is 1971. I > leave the lawyers to draw their own conclusions. > > Why did I buy a Chicago album? I'd like to plead drink drugs or > insanity but actually I recently saw a graet live clip of them on > tv and then found the album second hand for #1.50/$2.00. Oh > well, it can go on ebay. Hey, that was a good move, since that album's a genuine classic. I wish I still had a working turntable so I could listen to my original copy (obtained when I was 11 in 1971). Terry Kath was a truly awesome guitarist in the day; it's too bad we only got to hear a little of what he could do. Chicago wasn't so hot later (without Terry), but at that time they were way cool (I didn't discover KC until 3-4 years later through a friend's older brother). I'd like to hear it slowed down a little (but just hearing at all would be nice). $.02, and all that -- ********************************************************** Steve Arnold http://arnolds.dhs.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 18:46:05 -0700 From: "PT" Subject: first two Mahavishnu Orchestra LPs vs. King Crimson I'd have agree with you, I heard the mid-70's King Crimson Lps first, then I later heard the Mahavishnu Orchestra Lps, and I always thought that the guitar tone was very similar to Fripp's. Bruford was probably checking out those Mahavishnu LPs, but was Fripp? Both played a black Les Paul around that time - yes ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:46:06 -0400 From: "Chris Holderfield" Subject: the song 'Cage' What album was "Cage" originally on? Is it even written by King Crimson (I've heard it on 'Heavy ConstruKction', but it seems familiar for some reason....). Thanks Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:09:41 EDT From: NajiBaji at aol dot com Subject: Re: Terry Bozzio/Billy Sheehan-Nine Short Films Hi All, I would love to turn all my ET mates on to a wonderful exciting new CD set that was just released. It is by Terry/Bozzio and Billy Sheehan and entitled "Nine Short Films". I the US it is on the Magna Carta label. (Do not be mislead by the title, this is a musical Compact Disc, not a DVD "film" work.) It is simply the best new release of original music I have heard in some time. It covers much musical territory in a unique cohesive fashion. One reviewer indicated it rates with the best of the newer King Crimson material. I have to agree. It is fresh, exciting, with that dark edge most of us love. All the material is performed by Terry and Billy. I wholeheartedly recommend this disc to our readers. Also, I am surprised no one else has acknowledged the contribution of Robert Fripp to the new Joe Satriani album "Strange Beautiful Music." The Maestro contributed classic Frippertronics to Stat's rendition of the rock and roll standard "Sleepwalk." There are some cool new things happening musically in our neighborhood worthy of ET attention. Cheers and Ears, dave ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1041 *********************************