Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1038 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1038 Wednesday, 2 October 2002 Today's Topics: Figmation of my imaginent Re: lyrics Nuovo Metal No More!! Re: thoughts on Doctor Diamond Peter Gabriel' new cd Re: Red Nightmare Terrible KC songs, "The Power to Believe" 21st Century Schizoid Band A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Eddie Jobson on USA...why? And why not? Fripp & Intel Metallica beat by Tull New album title Richard Pinhas in Baltimore October 26th Tony Levin on the new Peter Gabriel album "Up" Re: "Schizoid Band" cd/ect/long post Egg Stuff - the Bruford connection GIG REVIEW: 21st Century Schizoid Band (Fairfield Halls) ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 23:40:39 -0400 From: "Jim E. Tykoliz" Subject: Figmation of my imaginent Back in the days of Napster, I remember downloading some Fripp contributions to an obscure psychedelic musician from New Zealand. Long lost through some computer crash, I'm hoping someone might shed light on who, what, when, why? I'm a huge fan of Lizard; there's nothing like it, including from KC. Doesn't make it better or worse, just special. It took me years to hear the magic, so I understand why people may not like it. Perseverance will pay off. Try it again. PEACE, Jim. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 05:18:57 EDT From: VincentDeBoule at aol dot com Subject: Re: lyrics >At least Mr. Belew's lyrics are far more insightful than such drivel. If Mr. >Vogel could write a post to ET that had half the linguistic talent that Mr. >Belew exhibits, he wouldn't be spewing such crap ... I don't agree with that logic. One doesn't have to be a lyricist to be able to recognize and appreciate good lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:32:01 +0000 From: "David Reilly" Subject: Nuovo Metal No More!! Short and sweet - the new King Crimson Album is called "The Power To Believe" not "Nuovo Metal" Later Dudes np : The Church - Priest=Aura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:39:19 +0200 From: "Eddy de Causmaecker" Subject: Re: thoughts on Doctor Diamond There is a version of Doctor Diamond (together with versions of Easy Money, The Night Watch, Book of Saturday and Starless) on the 1997 Album "Monkey Business" by John Wetton & Richard Palmer-James. Perhaps not as good as the Crim version, but well worth checking out. Eddy Flycatcher flycatcher at zeelandnet dot nl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:59:07 -0400 From: "Robert Bennett" Subject: Peter Gabriel' new cd I just picked-up Peter Gabriel's new cd and in my opinion it is very good. The mood of the disc is very down beat, but interesting. Tony Levin palys on all but one track. In many ways Peter voice sounds more like early Genesis than his solo work. Gabriel is touring the States this fall/winter. Tony Levin is in the live band (I believe). Bob Bennett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 05:15:06 EDT From: VincentDeBoule at aol dot com Subject: Re: Red Nightmare Well, I'm partial to the idea of Crimson covers, but being a band that EXCLUSIVELY does Crimson covers? Ehh. What I think would be neat is if you could assemble a good lineup, do some Crimson covers, and try to come up with some original material. Classifying yourselves as a Crimson cover band right from the start might preclude that possibility. Also, as far as "recreating Crimson improvs" is concerned, I have to admit I find the idea pretty silly. I mean, they are improvisations after all; better to just come up with your own, and possibly build your original compositions from those. And, if my viola-playing wasn't as bad as it is, and I lived on the opposite side of the country, I'd definitely be interested. Good luck to you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:46:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jimmy Bob Subject: Terrible KC songs, "The Power to Believe" hmmm. Well, since just about everybody has given a list of their least favorite songs. So I might put in my two cents: these are in no particular order. "Moonchild" - Nice for the first two minutes, but during the improv, it just drags on. "Cadence and Cascade" - Huh? Huh? Whaaa? What the hell is Gordon saying? Have to crank the radio on this bore. Most of the album: "Lizard" - I just don't see the big thing about this album (except for maybe the title track & Indoor Games). "Happy Family" takes the cake for the most addictively awful song. I've found myself listening to it and saying to myself: "Augh! This song is a piece of 4-letter word! I gotta listen to it again!" And even now, I feel an urge to listen to it coming on. No. Gotta fight it! Hold on... [Me: walk away from computer and listen to "Happy Family"] Yeah... still pretty awful. "The Talking Drum" - live, OK. But the LTiA version doesn't come to my liking. "Dig Me" - Something I'll most likely never do. "Two Hands" - Heard it once, never want to hear it again! And with that taken care of, I guess you all know by now the name change of the forthcoming KC album, which is now "The Power to Believe" (probably a message to fans disheartened by TCoL). This is just frustrating. Now I have to come up with entirely new dream artwork. But if you want to hear me rant, keep reading, if you don't, "move on". I've only really thought of the front cover. My idea is a box (about the size of the "smokebox" on the album "Anima") that has static snow like you see on your TV when it's not working. Possibly, it could be a holographic cover like the afore-mentioned "Anima" or ELP's "Brain Salad Surgery" delux edition. I don't think the title of the album sould be on the front cover. That would kinda spoil it. See ya... -jimmybob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 08:01:39 +0100 From: "james.gemma1" Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band I am listening to the 21st Century Schizoid band - this is fabulous music but it is played under the wrong name. This name for this band should be King Crimson. King Crimson Musicians playing King Crimson Music to a King Crimson Audience = KING CRIMSON GM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 11:25:30 +0200 From: thony dot christie at t-online dot de (Thony Christie) Subject: A Rose by any other name would smell as sweet. I find the attempts by various posters to explain the phonetics of the correct Scottish pronunciation of the name McLaughlin very entertaining, particularly as many of my German acquaintances take great pride in their knowledge of this when talking about the legendary guitar player. Unfortunately as Toby correctly pointed out Johnny Mac is not a Scotsman but is a Yorkshire lad and the English being the ignorant slobs that they are, his family name is indeed, as quoted from the late great Tony Williams in the post that started this whole thing, pronounced Mc'Lock'lin. Love ThC. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 09:40:25 -0400 From: "Ryan Tassone" Subject: Eddie Jobson on USA...why? And why not? I was wondering if Eddie Jobson's "remix assistance" on USA was done because David Cross was ACCIDENTALLY mixed down on certain tracks, or if David Cross was INTENTIONALLY mixed down because he was no longer contractually a part of the band? The latter explanation doesn't make much sense, because Cross can clearly be heard in other places on the album (albiet mostly on Mellotron). That being said...wow! Jobson is WAY better than Cross at both violin and keyboards. I'm an avid UK fan (well, as avid as one can be for a band that only released two studio albums), and I've always been impressed by Jobson's precision and virtuosity. On the "LTiA2" featured on USA, I immediately noticed that Jobson's contribution (which, according to Sid Smith, was part of a mere three-hour session) sounds more musically and emotionally dynamic than any Cross performance of that piece! The solo sounds a little contrived, I'll admit, but the double-stops at the end are very effective and climactic. Anybody else wonder what a KC with Jobson might have sounded like? Think of it: improvs where the violinist wasn't drowned out all the time; keyboard parts that were actually complex and interesting; instrumentals composed cheifly by somebody other than Fripp! But maybe those things would upset the balance (although Cross was obviously out of balance most of the time anyway). Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 11:27:39 -0500 From: Paul Hubers Subject: Fripp & Intel Hi Crimheads, Has anyone seen the new Intel TV commercial with the Frippish guitar soundtrack? I can't ID the song or the male vocal who sings something like "You can't stop us now. We are all made of stars." But the guitar has Fripp all over it, not the Frippertronics stuff, but more like the in your face stuff with David Bowie on SM. It ends with a single dissident blast that blends into the Intel jingle. It's a great commercial the way the music is used. It really got my attention. Can anyone ID this tune and say for sure if this is Fripp? [ It's Moby, "We Are All Made Of Stars", from his latest album "18". It's not Fripp on guitar -- Toby ] Take care out there, Paul Money is not a problem, only a difficulty. - R. Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 12:30:01 -0300 From: "The Necron Stratomailer" Subject: Metallica beat by Tull >Nothing ludicrous about it, "Crest of A Knave" was the better album >andwhile every song may not be the standard three chord thrash metal formula, I >would choose it everytime. Humm.... Metallica might not be at the top of the food chain but "One" (the song they were nomineed for at the time) is not a "three chord thrash" kind of thing. I thought it was an actually well composed piece. It gradually grows more intense.... Starting from the clasical guitar arpegios, and ending some 6 or so minutes later with violent riffing and soling. Maybe it's not all that sophisticated, but it certainly is effective. And the "three chord formula" belongs to punk, not metal (not even thrash metal). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 14:37:27 -0400 From: "Matthew Dunlop" Subject: New album title Just looking around the DGM website and noticed that "Nuovo Metal" no longer seems to be the title of the forthcoming album. Instead I see "The Power to Believe". The former kicked more @** but judging by titles seems to be something the band would rather we not do. Preordering "Happy" right now and finally getting my hands on The Great Deceiver. Matt ----- "Life: A terminal Sexually Transmitted Disease. Think about it." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:34:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: Richard Pinhas in Baltimore October 26th Orion Sound Studios 2903 Whittington Ave Baltimore MD Saturday, Oct 26th, 2002 8pm French guitarist, electronic musician, and composer Richard Pinhas is internationally recognized as one of France's major experimental musicians: the 'father' of French electronic music. He was the founder of Heldon, a band whose violent fusion of electronics and guitar in the 1970s rivaled the German electronic school and was a precursor to today's industrial music. As a guitar player, his sound has been compared to that of guitar icon Robert Fripp. Over the past decade, working solo and with other artists such as Pascal Comelade and Maurice Dantec (for Schizotrope), Pinhas has been developing a system of electronic processing to use in performing live solo guitar concerts. Pinhas will perform in Baltimore, Maryland on October 26th at Orion Studios as part of the ongoing Baltimore Progressive Rock Showcase Series Fall 2002 schedule. Performing on guitar and accompanied by French electronic musician JAcrA'me Schmidt, Pinhas will play music fromis new instrumental release on Cuneiform, *Event and Repetitions*, and possibly some new pieces that fuse electronics, sampling and guitar and incorporate spoken-word from writings by Phil K. Dick, William Burroughs, Hunter S. Thompson, and others. Tickets for this all ages show are $15 in advance via Ticketweb at http://www.ticketweb.com/ For directions and more information, please visit The Progressive Rock Web Site at http://www.progrock.net/ -Adam ---- T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 15:18:57 -0700 From: "Larry Terrano" Subject: Tony Levin on the new Peter Gabriel album "Up" Greetings all.I picked up Peter's new album on its day of release last week and Tony is credited on the following tracks:"Darkness", "Sky Blue", "No Way Out", "I Grieve", "The Barry Williams Show", "My Head Sounds Like That" and "More Than This". That's seven out of ten tracks. This is one of Peter's better efforts IMHO. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 18:14:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve munari Subject: Re: "Schizoid Band" cd/ect/long post Hello all; I got the most pleasant suprise when returning home after being on the road for about 2 weeks. A medium sized box, return address England, awaited me as I got in the door...I could'nt open it fast enough as I was pretty certain of to what it contained. It had been sent by someone I 1st got connected with via a post in ET, & whom I consider to be a great friend. We had become close mates months prior to this particular pkg arriving. The package contained the wonderful debut cd by "The 21st Century Schizoid Band" a beautiful t-shirt, also of the "Schizoid Band", & a simple but equally beautiful t-shirt commemorating 1 of two "Jeff Beck Tribute Concerts at The Royal Festival Hall" around Sept. 14-15th 2002 which I could only turn complete "green with envy" shade, after being told of what had to be 3 nites of pure bliss! I cannot thank my mate PB enough!! Before I go into any details of these items, I have to admit I am suprised at the lack of posts to ET giving reviews or overviews of the "Schizoid Band" performances that have transpired thus far! I believe counting 1 by my friend, & one from an ET'er from the U.S. whom saw them on 1 of their 1st gigs. Besides those two I can only think of another person who barely mentioned this. I would have thought that more people in Europe would have commented on these performances. My friend went again to see the "boy's" for a 2nd time this weekend, I believe, but I have yet to hear from him! 1st the cd. While Ian-Mel-Mike-Pete & Jakko cleverly decided to have the words, "Official Bootleg Volume One" on the reverse side of the paper, containing a photo of the band in the studio, along with the song line-up.(IMO the "Official Bootleg" thing probably refers to the band doing the recording session as efficiently as possible, while not wanting to spend a GREAT deal of money in the process. While I have no evidence or knowledge but my gut instinct, but again, imo I believe this cd was recorded the "old way"(everyone playing the tunes at the same time)no overdubs, and possibly/probably analog. This great disc(nearly 60 mins)begins with an incredible version of "A Man A City", probably my favorite song on the disc. These guy's, asside from Jakko; I believe are 8 to 10 years older than I am at 50(If i'm wrong my apologies)and being a musician, I know what 'discipline' it takes to maintain chops that these great veteran's of either the original KC line-up, or the 2nd phase,exhibit, excluding Jakko Jakszyk whom of course is too young to have been a member; but Jakko is one talented guitarist, and quite the vocalist as he handles all the lead vocals of the 7 songs which cover a # of different vocalists, styles, and plays the Fripp parts quite amazingly, imho. This cd IS NOT, & should not be expected to be "exact covers" of the KC songs. To these ear's, Jakko has all the talent & frame of mind to take him to whever he wants to go musically! This friend of mine, is a good enough friend, of at least 2 members of the band, that he has gotten backstage access to the performances he's attended, which was great for me as everyone in the band was good enough to autograph the booklet(8 pages of photos & libretto, ect.)for him which I now proudly own. I know I carry on here, but I don't feel this historic release has received enough attention in these pages. Imo, Mike & Pete Giles sound like they're brothers, & have been playing together over all these 33 years, quite a rythym section.Being a drummer, I have seen & played on(albeit at a music store)the "Arbiter Flat" drums, that Michael uses on this disc, & I was amazed at the sound Mike was able to force out of these single headed, single hoop drums that feature the 1 lug tuning! If you know what Remo Roto Tom drums are constructed like, well these are SIMILAR, but as Arbiter would want you to know, much different. The dbl sax idea, of using Ian & Mel was brilliant, as these guys fit beautifully together & really fill the air with sound at the appropriate times...They also know when not to play. All 7 songs are a must have for ANYONE that has ever enjoyed King Crimson. They are rumored to play the U.S. but don't allow yourself to wait thinking you'll pick the cd up at the! concert...buy a copy now! I tend to be very critical of of many things, picking away at the smallest of details, especially on something containing the "weight" this project was destined to have on it from the beginning, so my coments on the next subjects would be more in "a perfect world" realm. These are just my observations/opinions. Between this cd & the Steve Hackett dvd, on which the song, "In the Court of the Crimson King" is done, my question has always been, "Why can't they do the ENTIRE song?" What I mean is, since this is imo, one of the most moving, majestic peices of music(in the prog/rock genre...I know, I know)ever done, why when it's been performed on the two projects i've mentioned, can't they do the false finish, pause, then go into the pipe organ high note peeps, and then onto the refrain/chorus of the end of this song? I've always thought this was so shocking & statisfyingly brilliant the 1st time you hear it, that when this song is performed IT MUST be done as it was on the album?!! (Kind of similar would be the Jethro Tull classic, "For a Thousand Mother's", which also has the false finish, & suprising reprise, that often left people in the audience standing & cheering, only for those poor souls to suddenly realize, feel foolish, then sit down. I guess- when I think the answer is because,(for both bands btw)the Mellotron(s)is just too huge, bulky & finicky to deal with when doing a large amount of traveling gigs. I would just love to hear that song done correctly, especially by the "Schizoid" boy's. My other "picky" observations are that, while I know Mike Giles an excellent drummer, capable of playing in any odd time signatures, I still have a "small" problem with his interpretation of the song, "Ladies of the Road".(Though I believe it's more a situation of how the drummer whom recorded it originally, Ian Wallace, is just such a different dfrummer, style wise/feel wise, than Mike.)When I listen to Wallace on the original, the feel I get from his timekeeping on that great great song is, what alot of drummer's refer to as "sounding like he's about to fall off his chair" as he's just behind enough on the downbeat(or upbeat)that it gives you that feeling! So my sense is Michael just does'nt play that way. Lastly on "Ladies of..." is that the backing vocals are just off enough, that I believe they either could'nt hear Jakko or each other well enough over the music because possibly not having seperate monitors, for each voice? But these are nit-picking, minute details. How I! do love Wallace's tempo, of "about to fall off his chair"(or drum throne)during the wonderful wailing of Mel's "striptease" or vg "porn" soundtrack, saxaphone. I love both versions. I know it's not a thread here, but I must briefly mention how incredible the Jeff Beck Tribute Concerts were reviewed to me. With the regular JB band(described on Terry Bozzio's site)being incredible, then you add guests like, Bozzio himself (and his hardworking drum tech Wayne Wilburn)hauling his entire S.S.Bozzio drumkit, & doing tunes off "Guitar Shop", and John MacLaughlin doing a set, as well as Roger Waters of "Pink Floyd" doing a # of tunes, & Paul Rodgers singing "Goin' Down" & John Hall on vocals on other tunes. I know i'm leaving important people out, but I guess I have to mention that for whatever reason, Jeff had the minimalist, "White Stripes" performing "Yardbird's" tunes, appealing to some I guess. To my knowledge this historic pair of gig's WAS NOT recorded, or filmed which is a shame as Jeff Beck is one of the greatest, inovative, influential guitarists of all time, & this is something I wish people all over ther world could experience, and keep. Go ahead & buy the "Schizoid Band" cd, you'll love it, & they'll love it, and they deserve alot of OUR attention!! Hope you're all not comatose? Steven ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:44:03 +0100 From: "Kim Fyson" Subject: Egg Stuff - the Bruford connection Just looking through recent ETs I see mention of Egg. It shouldn't be forgotten, of course that Dave Stewart (of Egg and later Hatfield and the North and The National Heath) was a key player (no pun intended) in the start of Bill Bruford's solo career. I'm sure Bill would agree with that. He was a founder member with Bill of the band Bruford and played with him for some time, teaching him a lot about composition and harmony in particular. That seems to be the main connection with Crimson. I shared a house with Dave Stewart in the mid 70s - my girlfriend was a Northette (those who know will know) but had also previously sung on the second Egg album. Dave was not keen on Crimson or really aware of them as far as I know. Kim Fyson Cambridge UK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:35:14 +0100 From: "Bryan Lea" Subject: GIG REVIEW: 21st Century Schizoid Band (Croydon) Make no mistake, this is no tribute band. These musicians have as much right to the name King Crimson as do Robert Fripp's occasional ensemble. At Croydon's Fairfield Halls last night, Ian McDonald, Michael Giles, Peter Giles, Mel Collins and Jakko Jakszyk gave us a glimpse of the raw power and musicianship of the original King Crimson from 1969-1971. Those attending who thought that Jakszyk might have to cut corners with the intricate guitar work pioneered by math-rock aficionado Robert Fripp need not have worried. No longer the long-haired rockers of the early 70s the four ex-Crimson members of the band show no signs of moving quietly through middle age into retirement. Gone - happily - were the beads, flares, long hair (except for the somewhat younger Jakszyk) and altogether too-small denim waistcoats. In instead, came the snappy suits and smart casual attire. Although during some of the more frenetic bouts of instrument change, Ian McDonald contrived to look less like his publicity photo and more like Sylvester McCoy's Doctor Who on acid. Mel Collins visually was at times frighteningly reminiscent of the late '80s incarnation of David 'Kid' Jensen. Michael Giles, part hidden by his drum kit, looking hardly a day older than his late '60s publicity shots, possibly the finest percussion man of his generation, thrashed the drums with vigour and precision. Brother Peter Giles on bass, stately and accomplished; smiling with quiet amusement as if he couldn't believe he was playing this stuff for an audience again after all those years. And Jakszyk on vocals and guitar. An excellent, heart felt performance by a front man comparatively new to the material. More obvious signs of concentration here, but that did not detract from his playing or singing - let's not forget he was covering for both Greg Lake and Robert Fripp! It is probably impossible to play such numbers as In the Court of the Crimson King quietly with any conviction. So they didn't: they blasted the hall with it. Even the quieter, and on album, more middle-of-the-road numbers from Ian McDonald's recent offering Driver's Eyes were rattled out with gusto and vim. The set included much of the album, In the Court of the Crimson King, plus songs from In the Wake of Poseidon and Lizard. There was additional material too, from the newly re-released and re-mastered McDonald and Giles album (which some of us bought a while back on expensive Japanese import. Grumble). In terms of performance, I found Formentara Lady to be a stand out despite my comparatively low opinion of it on the original album. Maybe I should dust it down and have another listen; contrast and compare it with the rendition on 21st Century Schizoid Band's Official Bootleg. One final piece of understated showmanship: when the band came back for the encore, they straggled on in a seemingly random fashion. Ian McDonald arrived first, playing the piano, then Peter Giles strapped his bass back on and slipped in to the piece. One by one the band arrived and joined in as if to a jam session. Except that it was a properly structured and deliberate performance giving the impression of nonchalance. And then, to finish, Jakszyk turned to the band, "Let's do it." 21st Century Schizoid Man. Marvellous. And if there hadn't been a tubes strike meaning I had to leave directly after the performance, I would have shamelessly fanboyed and had the band sign the CD I bought. They said they would. Bryan Lea It is almost three years since Madge and Bobby Rawlinson pulled up roots and were arrested by the parks department. (The mandrakes screamed!) Jeremy Sphincter has sailed for Australia after the poultry scare. (We won't mention HIM again.) Old Mr. Trilonious stays on at the farm, now a broken man and an incurable alcoholic. Apart from his regular visits to the village shop for a couple of tins of "Ready Rub", he hardly goes out at all. And diverts his remaining years to breeding those beautiful guppies for which he is so rightly famous. ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1038 *********************************