Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1025 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1025 Tuesday, 10 September 2002 Today's Topics: NEWS: From the moderator The Dark Side of Larks' Tongues ET without Adrian? Why Crimson addendum Requiem USA Happy With What You... VROOOM & The Flaming Lips Re: KC at Central Park 1974 Peter Gabriel sounds like KC next crimso cd cover Why Crimson? Good question... Why Crim? Re: Adrian's KC Solos Science Friction Re: Why Crimson? KC - USA ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 01:51:56 +0000 From: "Toby Howard" Subject: NEWS: From the moderator Dear ETers My apologies for the recent hiccup at ET. If anyone thinks their posts got lost, please re-send. The mail processing at ET, as you might imagine, is rather complex, and sometimes things go wrong. So, sorry. Everything seems fixed now. Cheers Toby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 01:51:56 +0000 From: "Dave Allen" Subject: The Dark Side of Larks' Tongues In #1024, Marcelo Rodriguez writes about LTIA: "I also believe that, following the tendency of many bands of that time (such as Pink Floyd or Jethro Tull) it was arranged as a "conceptual album", as I see that the whole album has a meaning, maybe because of the order in which the tracks were placed, or the evolution of the melody through the record." The first time I listened to this album, I thought there was a correlation between the track order and the cover: the instrumentals represented by the sun, the songs by the moon. A sort of eclipse theme, like Floyd's "Dark Side", released the same year. Also, side two begins with "Easy Money", while "Dark Side"'s side two starts with "Money", both songs being the closest to straightforward blues-rock on their respective albums, as well as having similar titles and themes. The first side of both albums also start with a dramatic build-up/climax, though each to completely different effect. Any idea which album came out first? I know that before recording these albums, each band toured with the material first. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 23:36:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Raupers Subject: ET without Adrian? Ok. Ok. Whew!...I was embarressed to read consecutive posts of like dialogue in my last receipt of ET. I was having the same difficulty I always have with me email (between 9 and 10 beers). I thought It didn't post. And later expanded/censored my earlier material to address cd sales etc. as my time permitted. And God Bless Toby he solidified my trust to get them both into Et. And you know what? There will never be enough posts about Adrian so get 'em all in. Like this is "Elephant Talk".. I doubt Bob has anything but company to claim in the lyrical identity of that KC history. Or else he would be bragging about it and attempting to round up the wagons around it. (Elephant Talk lyrics have Adrian written all over 'em. )This site ain't named "Tinker Tailor" or some overly tight anti-blue collar ditty is it? No! It has balls. Angry balls. Robert to my knowlege has not written about his father's anti social nature and does not write about his own. Until the phenomenon achieves song he secures himself in silence...and bores me. Let's face it. ET is Adrian Belew all the way! Today's ET is product of Adrian. And noone in KC has anything else to say. Except maybe "Lights please" pass the camera forward? Excuse me my John Lennon is showing. I hate to think I am the only non-comformist ET'r that posts more than she lurks. Lennon was a walking contradiction (so they say), and it takes balls to walk alone. But for Johnny (and me) it comes way too easy. I think this is the basement that Bob refers to. The basement that he needed and tapped into when he seduced Adrian's talent. So what. And when you wonder why 3OAPP is accepted? Duh...ever listen to the lyrics????? I been married for 21 years. Met her in 9th grade in 1974 and been with her all but 2 weeks (big fight no outside sex) from 1974 to today 2002. And you think it's cause we have no kinky sex drives? Did every generation of youth invent sex and beer? Hardly! This song goes beyond those superficial layers. 3oapp is about intellectual struggle at its least for me. I take it home to the basement if some insist. And Bob is selling "Basement Dweller" T shirts, throwing shit at Guitar Craft customers, hiding in the back of the stage and asking lights please!!!, If someone takes his picture. I can hang with fat Elvis anyday. I can't wait another minute for Adrian to gimme..gimmme...giimmmme some truth. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 01:07:04 -0700 From: "David C." Subject: Why Crimson addendum Few bands change the mask it wears more brilliantly than K.C. and few weather the times. In the past 5 years no recording holds up with the intensity of Construkction. To carry on the tradition of sequels, LTIA 4 remains spellbindingly progressive and gutsy. The whole disc flows. Have we given up on radio? I recall in 95 while driving on the road Adrian stopped by 103.9 (or was it 101.9) and FM radio station in Los Angeles just hours before one of the Wiltern shows and Adrian played Dinosaur on acoustic guitar. Magnifico. Now the question is, did this station ever play any King songs? Hell no. Not since KROQ use to spin Elephant Talk. Sad world. I use to hear Cat Food and ITCOTCK and 21st on KLOS noontime nuggets but this band is like the plague to radio. Like Zappa. One more note and not to drag the issue in to the dirt, but on behalf of the most moronic immature and disrespectful audience, and let me rub in the fact that I have been attending rock concerts since 1968; I do say this with a tad of experience, the TOOL fans are a pathetic group. Take into consideration those that surround you in the venue paid money to hear the band, not to hear your mindless conversation. The August 2001 Wiltern Los Angeles show was the most distracting and frustrating concert I have ever attended. Tool are a great band. Their audience needs serious help. Get a life!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 10:12:22 +0200 From: "Evert Zeevalkink" Subject: Requiem Hi there, I have a question about the song "Requiem" from "Beat". Somebody told me = the song was recorded just after Adrian Belew heard his father died, so = it is Belew we hear freaking out on his guitar, while Fripp is playing = chords.=20 Does someone know whether or not this story is true and Belew is really = playing the lead lines? I find the lead lines very Fripp-like, I even = believe I hear some of the same licks in "The Night Watch" on "Starless = and bible black". Thanx, Evert Zeevalkink ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 06:23:03 -0500 From: "Phillip Ciskowski" Subject: USA Sorry if this has been flogged to death already, but I did a side by side comparison of the first four songs on USA with the Providence concert on TGD, and those are from same concert, despite what the FAQ page says. Easy Money appears to be an edit of Easy Money/It Is For You, But Not For Us from Penn State. Perhaps a collectors club issue of the complete Asbury Park concert would clear this up further? One surprising thing I did notice is that the sound seems less muddy on TGD with the cymbals much clearer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 06:32:38 -0500 From: "Phillip Ciskowski" Subject: Happy With What You... CDUniverse.com has this listed with cover art, which is another PJ Crook painting. I wonder if the Larks' Tongues IV listing correct, or is it really LT V? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 07:49:03 -0400 From: "Justin Weinberg" Subject: VROOOM & The Flaming Lips I dont know if any of you out there are familiar with the pop band The Flaming Lips. I have a couple of their more recent CDs (_The Soft Bulletin_ and _Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots_) and enjoy them very much. I recently acquired another release of theirs that reminded me of the concept behind the _Thrak_ track VROOOM--and it may be an idea that KC might want to explore. As you may recall, VROOOM featured one trio in the left speaker and one trio in the right. What was coming out of one speaker was largely quite different from what was coming out of the other, but it all fit together. The Lips have tried something similar, I discovered. In 1997 they released a 4-CD set called _Zaireeka_. Unlike most 4-CD sets, in which the discs are to be played successively, with this set you are supposed to play all 4 discs simultaneously! So you need four CD players (eight speakers), preferably in the same room, with enough people (hands) to synchronize the starting of the CDs. Due to my equipment limitations, I have only been able to listen to 2 discs at a time, but I plan to convene some friends soon to try the whole thing out. The sound is quite different than if it were all mixed to a single CD and coming out of one set of speakers. It is looser, more open, more alive. As they recognize, not all CD players will play at exactly the same pace. >From the liner notes: What I liked best about it was how different and out of whack an otherwise simple song could get I would try to present music that was both clear and confusing, where rhythms fought each other, where time signatures were simple yet unpredictable. Music that would be unfamiliar even after a thousand listens. This is quite a step beyond the stereo fun on VROOOM. But wouldnt it be exciting to hear a similarly deconstructed version, maybe 3 discs (e.g., Fripp & Mastelotto, Belew & Levin, Bruford & Gunn)? Or perhaps KC could use the idea on some new material? Justin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:58:36 -0400 From: "C Gribbin" Subject: Re: KC at Central Park 1974 In response to the recent post by a fellow attendee - my recollection is that it was Golden Earring that opened, directly followed by KC. In fact, GE had a rough time getting their set out, being perpetually booed and pelted with beer cans and leaving the stage after Radar Love with a look of disgust. KC fans at that particular event were no more tolerant of openers than the description of tool fans in the same newsletter (this was not typical, I would say, as fans were responsive to Strawbs, Procol Harum, Spooky Tooth among other openers I remember from those days). Golden Earring was a bad match for KC, and this was a crowd that wanted only to hear KC. As has been noted many times, what followed was quite a good show. Best, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 08:46:09 -0700 From: Kenley Neufeld Subject: Peter Gabriel sounds like KC Friends: I've been listening to some of the new Peter Gabriel (Up) material that will be released later this month. The first track on the CD is called "Darkness" and it sounds uncannily like King Crimson (circa 90's). Of course, once he starts singing we know it isn't but the song varies between extremely quiet and very brash. Perhaps Pete is re-visiting some of his 70's sound on this CD. In general, the CD is really solid though I'm not 100% certain it is anything new or innovative. He seems to be borrowing liberally from past sounds (that I enjoy). It's supposed to be released on September 24th here in the States. Did anyone see him perform in Sardinia on Saturday night? Peace, Kenley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 15:47:03 +0000 From: "pierre guertin" Subject: next crimso cd cover Hi disserting fans, You know, one could get a preview of the cover of the next Crimso studio album. In the 10.8.02 entry of P.J.Crook's diary, she mentions that the title of the painting to be used as a cover for that album is "IT COULD BE US" (owned by Professor Philip and Nancy Kotler in Chicago). Earlier, in her 24.6.00 entry, she writes "Received copy of an American magazine showing my big painting IT COULD BE US". So, one needs now only to figure out wich magazine she's talking about, get a hold of the right number, and one could see this next cover. .... Probably waiting to see it will be faster. Pierre Guetin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:11:57 -0500 From: "W. Stuart Kirkham" Subject: Why Crimson? Good question... As I begin typing, I expect this to be a rather long post, so I apologize to the long-post-adverse in the forum. I would like to partially respond to the questions posed by Jonathon Boulter in ET#1022. It's a partial response in the sense that his questions touch on some subjects I have been mulling over for a while and considering posting about, and I am going to discuss these issues as I've mulled them over rather than tackle Jonathon's questions on a point-by-point basis. This post deals with issues of loyalty to prog groups, innovation vs. stagnation, aesthetic quality vs. technical expertise, and several other relevant miscellaneous topics that I cannot tersely summarize in a neat phrase at the moment. Anyhow... To begin with, the prog groups that I have followed most closely over the years have been Jethro Tull, Yes, Peter Gabriel, and King Crimson, with the listing occurring in chronological order of my discovery of them, although the discovery occurred within a four year period of each other alomst 20 years ago. Among this group, I have almost completely lost interest in Jethro Tull, Gabriel hasn't released enough new material for me to "keep up with" (although I do still listen), and Yes and Crimson still command my attention with some qualifications I will explain below in more detail. As for Tull, I actually liked some of the stuff he did in the 1980s. Many of my friends who liked Tull did not like the techno-sounding stuff and wished he still did more of the type of work he did in the 1970s, a view held by many of Tull's fans, and to which Ian Anderson gave into. Personally, I respected the fact that he was constantly innovating his sound and trying new things, even if I thought some of it sounded ridiculous, since some of it sounded really good to me as well. Nevertheless, once he began to turn out what his fans wanted (and I base these comments on interviews with Ian Anderson), I rapidly began to lose interest, even to the point that I do not even have much desire to listen to his older material. I do not have much to say about Peter Gabriel, other than I still enjoy listening to his albums, and I am still waiting for a new one. So...as for Yes and Crimson. With Yes, I had heard the standard radio tracks of the old band, but never began buying their albums or exploring their music until 90125 came out (this was my senior year in high school). I soon bought Fragile, liked it a lot, and was impressed by the creativity of it (the fact that it was not constrained so much by typical pop-song verse and refrain format, for instance), and soon bought CLose to the Edge, and was blown away by it. Afterwards, I made a point of getting all their albums. I had this same collecting tendency with Tull, too. I had an interest in seeing how the artists developed over time, how their styles changed, and how it gave me a glimpse into the creative process. So, I began to see Yes in their historic context. I saw how after Close to the Edge they kept milking the LP-side-length song format to death. Don't get me wrong, I do like Tales from Topographic Oceans and Relayer, but I could also see the innovation in their style dying out. Going for the One seemed to be a bit of a revitalization. I got the impression that the band did Tormato simply to fulfill contractual obligations. In my opinion, it is a sorry piece of work, and I think that they had little interest in it themselves. I think they thought it was bad. I have long had a theory that the album cover was a confession by the band, showing their expectations to be pelted by a tornado of tomatoes from angry fans, as they searched for something they weren't going to find (you know, as represented by the guy with the divining rods). They are all wearing sunglasses on the back cover because they hope no one will recognize them...I saw an interview with Jon Anderson on the Symphonic Yes DVD that partially bears out this opinion of mine; he says they were all moving in different musical directions at the time...anyway, I spent a lot of time trashing Tormato, and I apologize to any fans of the album I might have offended with my opinions. Anyhow, it seemed a very low ebb to me. Drama was interesting, but not too special. 90125 then seemed very fresh and innovative, despite being poppy and very commercial. Big Generator was much the same way. Poppy and commercial, but very good poppy and commercial. Starting with ABWH, Steve Howe works his way back into the band, and their music changes direction. ABWH and Union have their moments, I liked ABWH at the time (but not Union so much), but in retrospect, there really isn't anything particularly special or enduring on these albums (I thought that 'Silent Talking' showed some innovative use of the vocal the line-up, but subsequent works have left this unexplored). [Actually since typing this, I have put Union in the player, and from the ABWH side of the lineup, there are a lot of interesting musical ideas that have no real antecedent in Yes' repertoire nor were ever followed up on, regrettably.In retro-retrospect, the ABWH contributions show an improvement over the first ABWH, or at least a progression as a group, while the Trevor Rabin Yes band's contributions aren't particularly good, even by their standards, and it is really their contributions that drag this album down, IMHO, of course] My loyalty to Yes began to waiver at this point. I've checked back in periodically (Keys to Ascension, The Ladder; I gave Open Your Eyes a miss) but have been largely disappointed. The creative concern in the groups seems to be to craft albums that will appeal to a large base of fans. They contain songs that seem designed to appeal to their early 70s fans, their 80s fans, or to create poppy new songs to create a new fan base. I find their more poppish songs to be blase at best, and the songs for their older fans to be backwards looking in style. Nevertheless, I have some interesting observations about Magnification. I was concerned when I first got it that the use of the orchestra would be gimmicky, and that the elements would not be well integrated. In some cases this seems to be the case, but in many several songs the pairing works well. Some of the first songs on the album are geared for radio airplay and are blase...but I nevertheless have found myself listening to it frequently. There are really only three songs that I particularly like on this album. It is at this point that I start merging into my main points, to make a short story long. Judging these songs on the same sort of criteria that are applied to King Crimson, they are not particularly good. "Give Love Each Day" style-wise is a look backwards to the Trevor-Rabin period. "Can You Imagine" is a short and simple piece, which I would lump with "The More We Live - Let Go" from Union (very Chris Squire - inspired). "In the Presence Of" begins with very cliche lyrics. The lyrics throughout the album are obviously inspired by Jon Anderson's New Age obsession, although they refrain from overtly invoking specific symbols (that is, he doesn't sing about angels or second attention too much). The lyrics sound more insightful (which is not the same as saying they are insightful). There is nothing particularly new in the music, it does not push the envelope of what music is, and obviously strives to be commercial. By the criteria many use to evaluate KC music, this album by Yes fails on all points. Nevertheless, my gut reaction is that I like it, or at least the three songs I have named above. "In the Presence of," particularly, is a well structured composition that soars, peaks and resolves, and although it revisits one theme, it is largely unrepetitive. I have tried to put my finger on why I like it, and the nearest I can figure, it is because it is simply a matter that the band was on the same page making the music, and they enjoyed making it. It is Steve Howe, Jon Anderson, Chris Squire and Alan White being who they are musically and being their best at it. Well, maybe not their best, but it is nevertheless very listenable. My loyalty to the group had pretty much dissipated, but this album has reignited my interest in the group (although it has not changed my opinion on particular albums). I think that as a group there is considerable room left for creative innovation, and I think that there is some desire on their part to achieve something musically grandiose (as opposed to simply commercial). I think that if they were to ignore commercial sensibility and simply made the music that they wanted to, that they still have much to contribute to the world musically (without necessarily changing the boundaries of music). So, on to KC. I have largely maintained my loyalty to KC over the years. I first found KC by buying RED (because I saw Bill Bruford's face on the cover), but by this time, ToaPP was already released. I never had a problem accepting anything of KC as KC since everyting from 1969-1984 was part of the historical legacy at that point. I never had the opportunity to hear new KC and form an opinion about it until the VROOM minidisc came out, and I accepted it for what it was. With Thrak, it seemed like the 90's band was essentially the 80's band trying to be the late 70's band in one blush, but still fresh in another. I had not discovered Elephant Talk yet, and TCOL has been the first studio KC (excepting ProjeKcts) that I have had to form an opinion over since reading ET, and found that all of the noise and debate made it hard for me to really form an opinion about it. In the end, TCOL falls flat for me on the grounds of the gut-reaction. I do like the song TCOL and Heaven and Earth, as well as Prozac Blues, but the rest of the album really does not excite me much, nor does it seem to be a particularly new direction for the band musically. The song TCOL is somewhat backwards looking in that the interlocking guitars hearkens back to the 80's band, but it works for me. The vocals are new and innovative I think (I remember actually getting goose bumps when I listened to the real-player previews as Ade sang "And if God is dead..." I saw the band live in Nashville, and there were goose bump moments there, too) I have given the improvs from Heavy ConstruKction and the Level 5 disc some attention, and once again, my reaction is that they are OK, but nothing too special. I like the "Beautiful Rainbow" improve especially (I seem to be drawn to the pieces that combine soundscaping with jamming). With Level 5, after several listens, my reaction is that this band operates by Trey and Pat laying down a groove and Robert and Adrian jamming over it. It has one of the best renditions of TCOL I have heard, and the new tracks are darkly compelling, but the pieces don't seem to really go anywhere. The same groove throughout the song, the building and intensification, and then it ends. I suspect this band is much better live. Nevertheless, my interest in and loyalty to KC remains. So, summary: I have over the past couple of years been trying to figure out exactly what it is that makes me "like" a band and its music, and Jonathon Boulter's question strikes at the heart of this matter. It seems to me that because I become familiar with the work and style of the various band members of the bands that I follow, I think that a band's music reflects the functionality of the band members as a group of people. That is, whether they are all committed to a common musical vision and whether they are enjoying making the music. When this happens, I think that the music is inherently good, regardless of any absolute measures of technical expertise or aesthetic quality (a matter of opinion anyway). Hence I maintain an interest in Crimson, since part of the technqiue of Crimson is maintaining a functional group and they cease to exist once this fails. Yes has been struggling with this since the 1990s, Gabriel released his first backwards-looking album with US (and I am hoping that the long hiatus will bring a fresh approach?), and Tull I can no longer vouch for. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:14:53 EDT From: Bknt at aol dot com Subject: Why Crim? Why Crim? In a word: content. The music is compelling and interesting and then, behind it all, are some principles, concepts, ideas that you don't really have to know anything about, but tend to enhance the listening experience. I remain fascinated with Mr. Fripp's on-going inquiry into how it is possible to make music in a commercial culture without losing your spirit, if not your life, or your royalties. Though he revealed a great deal of this in his diaries, we can agree that his music revealed even more, from the intensely personal Frippertronics/Soundscapes work, to the blasting, 5/4 Bartokian Belewdcruous partnership of the Greater Crim. Some art is merely about filling time gracefully. Some art is about pleasing an audience. Some art is designed to make people spend money. Mr. Fripp's work aspires to more interesting content, even if he is a bit silly about photographs. King Crimson does not compete for rack space, concert space or ticket sales: there just aren't enough of us around to put Mr. Fripp on the same pages as Mr. Jagger, or the Artist Currently Referring to Himself as Eminem. Success AND failure have not spoiled King Crimson. We are fortunate to have the band, in whatever permutation, incarnation or concatenation it chooses to present itself. Bill Kent ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:04:01 +1000 From: "cam@arthole" Subject: Re: Adrian's KC Solos Adrian's solo in Larks tongues #4, right before the coda gets me everytime, it's almost too much to bear, i love it, i don't know what else to say, cam. p.s. i have a dream, that one day, KC will tour Australia..... arthole: http://arthole.alphalink.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 13:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Gary Mayne Subject: Science Friction I thought I would alert ET readers to a new disc they might enjoy while waiting for the new KC ep: Tim Berne's "Science Friction" with Craig Taborn, Marc Ducret and Tom Rainey. Produced, "manipulated and processed" by David Torn. Berne, a sax player, is a long time veteran of the NYC improvisational scene and this disc finds him in a slightly more structured format- his group on this outing sounds heavily influenced by King Crimson and Henry Cow (Leg End period). Several of the cuts sound like "Henry Cow Plays KC". In a blindfold test, when I asked my 13 year old son who was playing, he immediately identified them as KC. If you like the Projeckts, you should enjoy this. I think you can only get this from Berne's web site: http://www.screwgunrecords.com/ where you can also hear a couple of mp3 samples. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 20:24:33 +0000 From: "satan's right hand" Subject: Re: Why Crimson? Good question though highly subjective. My own personal experience with KC began when I was in high school about 9 years ago or shortly before news of the double trio came about. My Spanish teacher asked me if I'd ever heard of a band called King Crimson. So being a good student(ahem)...I bought Vrooom which was completely different from anything I'd ever heard before. Crazy noises and crossed rhythms aside, it seemed, though, like something that I wouldn't listen to all that much. So a bit later before THRAK came out I bought LTIA and that collected works album(ITCOTCK and 80's stuff). Still music that I probably wouldn't listen to all that much. I bought more and more and I am not really sure when but I started to open up a bit to music and became less of a genre fan. Prog-wise I listened to KC, Yes, Pink Floyd(I know I know and I don't care), 70's early 80's Rush, and tried Tull(bullocks). I've bought recent Yes albums and they just don't have the musical ferocity that I feel some of their early albums had(not ferocious like a lion but more like a cheetah) as well as I just plain got sick of their new age bs. However, King Crimson especially once Ade wrote words were more up to date. They have always had incredibly large scary riffs, weird noises, and pushed for new sounds. They are psychological too, both in music and lyric; personally, I'm fairly interested in psychology so stuff like "TOAPP" is refreshing. After seeing the last tour I was convinced that KC would be the opening band for satan and the apocalypse. Imagine everyone lined up walking past as this "lounge" band played. I'm a bit of an annihilist so the intense musical passages suit me fine. Jeramaya "Seems like there's always more duty/Maybe that's the beauty." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 17:04:37 -0500 From: Philip Schultz Subject: KC - USA I just purchased the CD release of USA. The sound quality is great. Also, glad that Fracture and Starless were added. However, was hoping that there was a concert location/date reference to the songlist. Any chance that this is or will be listed somewhere? It appears (according to David Singleton) that all was recorded at Asbury Park with the exception of 21st Century, which was recorded at Providence. That makes sense to me because 1) the overall fidelity of the band is consistent 2) The version of 21st Century is identical to the Providence, RI concert on The Great Deceiver box set. Does ET have this information? Thanks. Phil Schultz ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1025 *********************************