Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #102 D i s c i p l i n e The INTERNET newsletter for Robert Fripp enthusiasts Number 102, Friday, 30 July 1993 Today's Topics: Fripp's 1988 .. and a question 1988/Frippertronics Angels in the Architecture "Pareto Optimum" More Broof News CHAPMAN STICK MAILING LIST REQUEST: Gurdjeff/Bennett Work Drums and stuff Eric Tamm's book? Tunings question California Guitar Trio [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:29:12 CDT From: oskardma at ukraine dot corp dot mot dot com Subject: Fripp's 1988 .. and a question Ferdinand Pienaar writes: > Does anyone know anything further about "1988"? Is Fripp playing guitar on > this piece, or some other instrument (a synthesizer, possibly)? As Toby mentioned, 1988 was a "Frippertronics" piece. I believe it appeared on the album "Let the Power Fall", along with several other Frippertronics-isms which were similarly named (each piece with a different year). So the question is: does anyone know the reasoning behind these names? BTW, the album was recorded back in '79 wasn't it? Also, there was a piece on the first Guitar Craft album called "The Chords That Bind" -- is the League mentioned on the compilation tape or is this a different version? OK, that's all for now... david [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: germuska at antioch dot acns dot nwu dot edu (Joe Germuska) Subject: 1988/Frippertronics Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 14:17:54 -0500 (CDT) 1988 is one of the tracks from the ?1979 Fripp album, _Let the Power Fall_. The album was recorded from a tour of record stores and other small non-traditional venues. The record jacket includes a full tour listing and an interesting manifesto by Fripp (that I typed and posted about three years ago before I had a real grasp of internet stuff; it's probably lost to the wind by now...) The manifesto is much like the Craft philosophy I've read... The songs are all named after years, I think 1982 through 1989? The frippertronics really come alive when you can hear fripp soloing over them -- given the recent postings about Fripp's attitude toward live performance, one can understand why none of Let The Power Fall has the soloing part. However, given my attitude towards live recordings (some is better than none!) one can fortunately find a track on the Fripp/Crafties Live! CD that has Frippertronics/soloing on it. It's very cool. Just what I know about the whole matter... joe -- joe germuska | j-germuska at nwu dot edu | (708) 869-0354 | ACNS Northwestern Univ. Instructional Technologies Group - Technical Support Services "You're walking, and you don't always realize it, but you're always falling." - Laurie Anderson [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: heck at husc dot harvard dot edu Subject: Angels in the Architecture Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 15:34:50 -0400 (EDT) In _Discipline #101_, FPIENAAR at FIRGA dot SUN dot AC dot ZA wrote about his compilation _Angels in the Architecture_, mentioning that it contains two pieces by Fripp, "1988" and "The Chords that Bind", and he asked if anyone had additional information about "1988" in particular. Both of these songs are, as most of you will know, from previous releases. "1988" is from _Let the Power Fall_, Fripp's 1981 Frippertronics album. As Toby himself mentioned, the piece is performed using a guitar, suitably modified, and two Revoxes. The technique was taught to Fripp, in the first instance, by Eno during the _(No Pussyfooting)_ sessions. "The Chords that Bind" is from the first of the League of Crafty Guitarists_ albums. Yours, Richard Heck [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: heck at husc dot harvard dot edu Subject: Pa"Pareto Optimum" Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 15:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Having been speaking with a few people about _The League of Gentlemen_, I thought I'd share with _Discipline_ readers a small discovery I made a few years ago, quite by accident. The discovery is that the "Pareto Optimum" songs constitute one of the finest experiments with the sonic possibilities of stereo I have yet to hear. In order really to appreciate these songs, you simply _must_ listen to them through head- phones and _without any other access to the audio_ (i.e. do not listen to the phones while the speakers are playing or anything like that). At least most people who have tried this have reported that the song sounds (1) COMPLETELY different and (2) either very interesting or very disorganized, depending upon their own tastes. The effect is due, quite simply, to the fact that the notes of the melody which one hears through both speakers are split between the two channels, as are notes constituting chords, etc., etc. What was a melody with harmony now becomes two very distinct pieces, to each of which of course one may listen if one uses balance appropriately. The two pieces, however, not only yield something quite different when one listens to them together, i.e., through one's speakers, but yield a quite different sort of piece when heard through headphones. Four songs in one! Actually, this reminds me of something even weirder, which is well worth a try, very late at night. Since it is along the same lines, I'll mention it, even though it has nothing _whatsoever_ to do with Fripp, I admit. In about 1983, very late at night, I was listening to the UNC-Chapel Hill radio station, whose name I can not remember now. The DJ announced that she was going to play the first side of _Dark Side of the Moon_, together with the first side of _Wish You Were Here_, simultaneously. Anyone who wished to hear the former was to switch the balance to the left; the former, to the right. The preferred option, however, was to to listen to both at the same time. We listeners were assured that the two records, together, actually constituted a quite separate piece of music, that they went together, perhaps were even _made_ to go together. OK, so I was a little altered at the time, and decided that I'd give it a go. And, you know, it really did sound, I don't know, interesting. I've since repeated this experiment on a few occasions and my subjects have uniformly been surprised at how well the two go together. Viz., when Waters is singing on one, he's almost always silent on the other. So try it. Yours, Richard Heck [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca (Anil Prasad) Subject: More Broof News Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 1:49:09 EDT First of all -- HI BOBBY!!!!! Try and do something more interesting with your hair. You look far too much like a pharmacist. Also, buttoning your shirts up to the top is a fashion faux-pas in 1993. -- Erm, and now for something completely different... the post. I spoke to Allan Holdsworth a couple of days ago and got some accurate info on the potential new Bruford group. The line-up: Bill Bruford (you knew that, didn't you?) Allan Holdsworth (another surprise) DJANGO BATES on keys (the most interesting jazz composer of the past 20 years) Skuli Skeverison on bass (from Holdsworth's touring band) Right now Holdsworth is working on his new album ("Hard Hat Area") and will be pursuing this new band project come October. HOWEVER, there are problems with previous labels and legal entanglements before the group can start working. I can't imagine this is a problem for Holdsworth who only owes his current label one more album. Also, Skuli certainly has nothing going in the contract area (I could be wrong, but I doubt it). Django just signed a solo deal with JMT (Jazz Music Today - a Polygram label), but I can't see how they would try to prevent such a profile-raising venture. So, my guess is E'G... what else could it be? Those bastards have screwed with the careers of Herr Fripp, Ferry, Eno etc.., why would Bruford be any different? Another stumbling block for the group is finding a label to work with them, release albums, promote them, finance them, all those nice little things a record label is supposed to theoretically do (ha!). Holdsworth says the only way this group is gonna get off the ground is if they find someone decent to work with, otherwise, as he says "what's the point?" ______________Anil_Prasad___wcsanil at ccs dot carleton dot ca_______________ "I didn't actually get up one morning and say, 'Oh, I don't know what to do today, I think I'll become an alcoholic and throw my life down the toilet.'" -- George Best 06/93 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:34:05 BST From: "Tony Brown " Subject: CHAPMAN STICK MAILING LIST Ref Patricks query about the stick list, the address I have is: stick%moliere at uunet dot uu dot net The manager is Peter Krausler. A friend of mine joined the list about 3 weeks ago, and has already had some interesting stuff. The address was gleaned from the 'musical list of lists', available from mlol-request at wariat dot org (which is where I heard about Discipline). Readers may also be interested in (if they don't already know of it's existence) the Gibraltar list. It's a progressive rock list; news of releases, tours and so on. Contact gibraltar-request at maestro dot mitre dot org, manager is Michael Lamoureux. There is a quite phenomenal progressive rock index available under the Gibraltar archives - via ftp.uwp.edu in pub/music/lists/gibraltar. File is 1993prog-survey. This is without doubt the best progressive rock information source I've ever seen (but then, how many do you see?); it lists hundreds of bands in the prog rock area, from the vanishingly obscure to the dinosaurs, with discography for all and history/reviews for most. The only drawback is that it's a massive file, and if you've not got the right setup (like here) you won't be able to print it. Anyway - read it!. And no, I've got nothing to do with it (just another satisfied customer!). But then you probably know the above anyway.. Cheers Tony [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: 21 Jul 1993 12:49:11 -0500 From: MOONLIT KNIGHT Subject: REQUEST: Gurdjeff/Bennett Work Could someone from the Gurdjeff/Bennett Work discussion group contact me? Thanks, Jeff [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: phv at equalizer dot cray dot com (Paolo Valladolid) Subject: Drums and stuff Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:59:01 PDT > i would be interested to hear discussion of the point raised by lizard-man, > that fripp seemed unwilling to take the challenge of a shifting rhythm > base. always seemed kinda wimpy, to me. (separate from the obvious > personality problems between bfuford and fripp ...) I've just started playing in my first band as a guitarist. In my two previous bands when I played keyboard, the drummer's playing never really mattered to me since my playing wasn't very rhythmic. Now as a guitarist I have to be a lot more conscious of rhythm and I'm beginning to understand why it would be difficult to play with a drummer (like Tony Williams, Trilok Gurtu, or, yes, Bill Bruford) who constantly plays with the rhythm. I like our drummer but when he does something offbeat I do tend to lose my rhythm. I'm not complaining though as I see it as an interesting challenge. I happen to be a big jazz fan and so I'm familiar with the concept of rhythmic interplay within an ensemble. It bothers my roommate, the other guitarist, a lot more because he has more specific ideas about what he wants the drummer to do. I'm more willing to let drummers do their thing as long as it doesn't disrupt certain moods and atmospheres we're trying to create. Besides its hard to find other drummers who love playing in 11 and 19 time :-). While it seems that Robert Fripp listens to jazz, it seems to me - from what I've read about him - that he has little interest in playing it. This is most likely because of the highly interactive nature of that musical style. I think Fripp is more of a classicist; he'd prefer the music to be more orderly and pre-arranged (feel free to correct me anyone). This is the same reason Frank Zappa is not a jazz musician; he has definite ideas as to what everyone in the band is going to play; everything is strictly arranged. There are definitely limits though as to how far a drummer should be allowed to go. I'd go nuts if our drummer played like Elvin Jones on a bad day. Even certain jazz musicians consider Jones too obnoxious to play with because he tends to drown out everyone. Paolo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 01:35:07 -0700 From: David A. Craig Subject: Eric Tamm's book? Could someone fill me in onq the title, publisher, and publication date of eric tamm's book on fripp? email me personally if you feel this is old news. [[ `Robert Fripp' by Eric Tamm. Faber & Faber 1991. $12.95/#9.99. ISBN 0-571-16289-4. -- Toby ]] another question: " 'steel cathedrals' era F/S [fripp/sylvian, i gather?] collaberations?" is this a sylvian record? if so, from when? i've never spotted this one and am interested. thanks for the forum, toby. [[ You're most welcome. -- Toby ]] [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 21:15:54 edt From: Sheeran_F at ODG dot ceo dot dg dot com Subject: Tunings question I play alot more rhythm than lead, usually DADGBE or FADGBE or EBEGBE. Can you recall any other tunings Fripp has tried and discarded? Does he pick a tuning and live with it for years, or does he have lots of concurrent material requiring different tunings? (Lots of new-age guys seem to like to have a different tuning for every song...) Last question, whats the picture on Belew's tunings? (When I met him, I was so busy mocking the Japanese he claimed he could speak, I kind of forgot to ask him.) Frank [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 11:43:57 EDT From: ad520 at freenet dot buffalo dot edu (Daniel M. Dumych) Subject: California Guitar Trio Firstly, let me compliment Toby and Ian's piece on the R. F. Guitar Workshop (Discipline 101). An excellent, interesting, informative piece (what more could one ask?) Secondly... I want to say what a pleasure it was to read, in that same article, that Paul Richards is still around, now within the California Guitar Trio configuration. My wife, four year old son (yes, 4!), and I had the lucky fortune of talking with him before and after a League of Crafty Guitars concert in Buffalo, New York, on October 2, 1990. A great guy! Actually, all of the players were extremely kind, and to my mind, for lack of a better word, "humble". One would think that appearing on stage with Mr. Fripp would lead to "swollen head syndrome". Hey wait - I have the flyer announcing the concert here in front of me, upon which Ian collected autographs, and Bert Lams and Hideyo Moriya signed it, too. Surprising at it may seem, Robert Fripp signed it, too, but within the confines of the backstage area, and only after the intense "urging" of, I believe, Paul. Fripp maintain his "mysterious presence" as usual. Kind of a Biblical thing - he was with us, but not of us. It seemed that he was puzzled to see four year old Ian there - he would kind of peek around the corner, and and then lean back out of sight, peek, lean back. On the playbill, one of the Craftys wrote "For Ian, our friend & soon to be Crafty". Should Ian hold them to it? Ciao for niao! Daniel P.S.: Paul, if you're reading this, HI!!! -------------------------------------------------------- [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The Discipline archives are available on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. The views expressed in Discipline are those of the individual authors only.