Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1013 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1013 Monday, 26 August 2002 Today's Topics: Arto Lindsay teenage crim fanclub the banjo/the favorites/beat/psychedelics Re: Bowie & Belew Some other words about Beat Re: IN THE COURT KC Ranking? mmm...! Peter Gabriel's Security P.G. redux video question the word kraut, Einsturtzende Neubauten Meshuggah... Re: lumping together The Noise The King of all Eras KCCCs #14 & 17 Jazz/Lizard My first KC concert Krautrock Opinions are like... ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:06:41 +0000 From: "Dale Hoyt" Subject: Arto Lindsay Dear ETers Arto Lindsay, yes yes yes. Great to see his name "invoked" in the newsletter. Truely urge y'all to investigate this stalwart avant gardist. He even did a wonderful piece about the life of Carmen Miranda with Laurie Anderson-entitled "Miranda Rites", I think- I don't know if it is current available CD-wise. But gosh Belew and Lindsay are very different guitarists. Belew is more of a guitar whore loving the painted strats as he does where Arto loves his department store guitars to almost masocistic degrees. The one thing they have in common is that both know every concivable sound that they can get out of their instraments and love sharing them. How about a Belew and Lindsey colaboration? now that would be great fun if it hasn't already happened. Dale Hoyt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:40:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: teenage crim fanclub I think one of the best things about having older siblings ( or parents) is to raid their music collection... this is how I got to know Led Zepplin, the Beatles( the White Album, Beatles For Sale), the Mamas and the Papas, CCR, early Chicago(II-VIII), Jethro Tull, B,S,&T...Shaft Soundtrack, Bitches Brew, all before turning the ripe old age of 10! Before radio had a chance to slip the american top 40 poison in me, the seed had already been planted and was growing. An early musical exposure can be a good thing! I had a friend who had parents that exposed their sons to an extremely wide range of stuff....for example, they were listening to the Residents as they learned to write their abc's... one now owns and operates Clinton st. Video and his brother owns and operates Jackpot records. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 02:11:53 +0000 From: "Matt D" Subject: the banjo/the favorites/beat/psychedelics In the previous ET 1010 >>I love the Level 5 CD but I must admit that I'm tired of King Crimson >>recreating the same music over and over. Level 5 itself sounds like >> >>Larks 5 and Thrak combined and little more. Maybe it's time for Fripp >> >>to pick up a banjo... If Fripp picked up the banjo I'd only hope he was as good as the banjoist for the band Spacestation Integration. The banjoist in this electric fusion group is as fast as anybody I have heard on guitar (or banjo!). This ain't no Bela Fleck shit! As for my list of favorite studio releases limited to eight for no reason at all (if any body is making a data base of this) 1. Thrak 2. Discipline 3. Beat 4. Starless 5. In the Court 6. Red 7. 3 of a perfect pair 8. Larks Tongue This doesn't mean that Larks Tounge sucks. It just hasn't been in my CD player that much recently (these lists tend to change the more you listen to other albums). It is strange how few list Thrak as one of their favorite. It seems to me to be one of the most cohesive Crimson album out there with every song being listenable (yes even the composition Thrak is hip!). And one of the most unbelievable double drumming compositions I have ever heard. I think Beat is a cool album. And it is blue! Nuff said! As for any special moment where KC has affected my life. Well there has been many. Discipline basically got me into the stage of music I am now. It really opned my mind and got me into so juch new music that I am still trying to catch up! Beat also is significant in my life. It, looping form several hours, helped me get through an extremely intense acid trip. You'd be amazed what Neal and Jack and Me looks like swirling around your bedroom. Any Elephant talkers out there with any stories about King Crimson music on psychedelic substances? Or this a taboo subject on Elephant-Talk? I would hope this forum is open minded!! Time to lurk again!! attM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:28:30 -0400 From: Jeremy Weissenburger Subject: Re: Bowie & Belew On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Frank P wrote: > Hi all, > > Sorry for the lack of KC content. > > I know that Adrian toured w/ Bowie at least twice. I have the "Stage" LP > on vinyl (I know it's a chore to find on disc). But I can't find any live > recordings from the Sound & Vision Tour ('91?). I remember they even > played "Pretty Pink Rose" which showed up on a Belew release that came out > about the same time. > > Any help? Although there were at least one show broadcast on the radio, I don't think Bowie released an official live version of this tour. I know it's available as a bootleg, though. --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:50:49 +0000 From: "Marcelo Rodriguez" Subject: Some other words about Beat Hi everybody at ET! I always think that Beat is an album which goes together with Discipline and Three of a perfect Pair, like a trilogy. Althouh my favourite album of that period is Discipline, I must admit that Beat has some great songs, like Sartori in Tangier, Neurotica, Two Hands. But I can't help comparing these albums to the Fabulous Three: Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Starless and Bible Black and Red. In my opinion, these 3 albums are the greatest ones KC ever recorded. That's why I find the music on Beat a bit "standard" or "normal" (like on TOAPP - I cannot find the right words to describe it), perhaps lacking the sense of musical adventure, experimentation, avant-garde, that made KC so important during the '70s. But we cannot blame anyone...maybe times were different...And luckly we will always find music of the highest level of quality on KC records, performed by the best musicians...why should ask more?. Again, congratulations Toby & Co. for the great job on ET. Marcelo Rosario, Argentina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:18:00 EDT From: Kissman24 at aol dot com Subject: Re: IN THE COURT --part1_23.215f65ab.2a68d0d8_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Hi ET, >I have IN THE COURT on CD and the track breaks are messed; MOONCHILD has >two >minutes in EPITAPH. Is it like this on all copies or is mine defective? >(Thought I'd ask, seeing the question of the ISLANDS CD.) > Also is anyone else who gets this a teenager? I'd like to know if there >is another person my age who listens to prog. Or are you all 30s+? I'm fairly certain that on my copy, the tracks aren't messed up. Did you get a Remaster or something? To answer your other question - I'm 13. I've been getting ET for...err...about a year now. And I'm certain that there are a whole slew of 20-somethings and some scattered teenagers that receive the list. That's it for now... ---Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:28:07 +0000 From: "Marcelo Rodriguez" Subject: KC Ranking? mmm...! Hi everybody at KC, In many editions I have seen messages about KC's best records based on personal tastes and impressions. In this respect, I would like to point out that, by doing so, we are forgetting some interesting points we must consider when it comes to analyzing KC's records. I mean, It's very difficult so say that one record is better than another, as there have been several line-ups, styles and tendencies during KC's musical development. How could you possibly compare records like those of the '80, like Discipline or Beat, to others like Larks' Tongues, or Starless & Bible Black?. In my opinion, there have been different stages, with different records in each. For instance, the first records (like In the Court..., In the wake of Poseidon, Lizard, etc) are not easy to classify, as there have been so many changes in the personnel that we don't find one "guideline" in the style, just as if they are still trying to find the right direction to follow, trying to find the band's personality. Of course, we can always perceive the unique style and command of Robert Fripp, and we find great songs mixed with others which could be described as "more discrete". In the second stage (as I see it, musically the richest one), we find "Larks' Tongues, S&BB and Red. Here I can see a great progress in the style and development of musical skills, and the most daring, complex and beautiful compositions (take "Fracture", "Starless", "The talking drum","Book of Saturday", etc). THe third stage (the '80's: Discipline, Three of a Perfect Pair and Beat) is much different from the others; also the times have changed and Brit ProgRock is not the same as in the '70's. The members have changed, although as good as ever (always Robert Fripp ahead, as usual), and so the music. But we see an intentiton of keeping music at the highest level of quality, and we also find great compositions, such as "Sartori in Tangier", "Industry", "The Sheltering Sky", etc. Finally, the ninenties: Thrak and the following records, with a double- trio lineup, (a great musical challenge!), the ultimate Frippertronics, and beautiful soundscapes. To sum up, I would like to say that we can choose great records from different stages, but it's quite difficult to mix them all and to create a rank, as they belong to different times, different musical background, different lineups, etc. Thanks again Toby and Co. for the good job! Keep it up!. Marcelo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 10:19:24 -0400 From: Wayne Bealer Subject: Peter Gabriel's Security Michael Destefano writes: "The third album (totally lacking any cymbals if anybody cares to know) in both English and German(slightly different mixes and the alternate take of Biko) is a GREAT AND INFLUENTIAL ALBUM!" I concur with this on one level, but I always felt the first three albums were experiments in striving for a unique sound world that was only finally accomplished on "Security" (aka Peter Gabriel 4). -Wayne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 10:37:55 -0400 From: "Michael Destefano" Subject: P.G. redux The only thing that I meant in my last post concerning Peters slide into a more mainstream approach, was just that. He came out of Security with a bit of commercial success in an era where trends were the most important musical focus. So (pardon my miscue calling it Us) was his ticket to a larger and somewhat (musically) shallower audience who were in awe of the "Lets all love and respect each other" rhetoric being crammed down their throats by other "sensitive artists" I believe that Peter lost his sardonic wit and gained a more even keeled and ultimately less interesting approach to music..... As for Eddie Jobson being a better musician- he truly was an instrumentalist-something that Eno wasn't. I know there is more than one side to a great musician, (and I'm no great Jobson fan)-but he really did allow Roxy Music to grow in a certain direction unattainable with Eno. Was it better? Not really, but the first three albums do share a common vision and quality - Stranded is just a bit slicker than the first two. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 11:13:14 -0500 From: "Brandon S." Subject: video question In issue 1011, 'Mark' asked: >Any >other viddy's I should be aware of? Yes....there is a live video from 1982 called "The Noise"; a 'Live in Japan' 1995 video; and a DVD of the same concerts from 1995 called "Deja Vrooom". I believe that this is all of the official group videos. They are all available from Discipline Global Mobile. Brandon Stanley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 17:49:49 EDT From: PeterSchaut at aol dot com Subject: the word kraut, Einsturtzende Neubauten , KC influential band Hello fellow Crimsonites! The first thing I would like to address is the use of ethnic slurs (e.g. Krautrock) in people's posts to ET. You wouldn't refer to Japanese people as nips or Vietnamese people as gooks not only because it's crass and obscene, but also because it's disrespectful. I happen to be German, and would usually shrug this off if I knew that it came from someone who doesn't know any better, but, we are, I assume, more intelligent and enlightened as to not know that such words show a lack of respect, and are in fact offensive and contemptible. The term kraut was used during and after WWII when referring to Germans in a lewd manner, so, I politely ask that you no longer refer to Germans and all things Germanic as kraut just as you wouldn't use other ethnic slurs to refer to other peoples. Enough said! Now to any recommendations for German bands, I think most Crimson fans might also appreciate the music of Einsturtzende Neubauten. Their early stuff is a bit noisy, so you might want to start out with the album Tabula Rasa, I'm sure many of you would like it. As to the post in ET# 1008 by Christian Hess who doesn't think King Crimson was/is a very influential band, it may not always be as obvious as it is with the Beatles, but they truly are one of the most influential bands since the Beatles. Not only in their music, but also through the musicians that have at one time or other been part of the band. KC is like a proving ground for musicians, if you've played in this band, you can play with anyone. The only other rock band I can think of that you could have said that about is The Frank Zappa Band. Even though KC isn't a huge commercial success, they are very successful in artistic terms and get a lot of respect from their fellow musicians in the industry. Th th that's all folks! VROOM, VROOM! Peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 13:34:05 +1000 (EST) From: Will Dayble Subject: Meshuggah... I'm writing in a vague relation to the post last ET about KC/jazz fans, except in a different direction. I remember a whiiile ago someone posted about the Dillinger Escape Plan, and how many KC fans could (and do) like what they make - even if it is a bit heavier than the usual staple KC fan's diet. I'd like to say much the same thing about a Swedish band by the name of 'Meshuggah', who I've been a long time fan of. They've just released an album called 'Nothing', which is really one of the most amazing and adventurous pieces of noise I've ever clapped ears on. They've taken lowness to new heights (pathetic pun I know), and they have 8 strings guitars tuned to low E or F (it's hard to tell), which is basically where any normal bass is... They also have very distinct polyrhythms, and a TOTALLY un-imitatable style. The guitarist Fredrk Thornendall (sp?) is also to blame for a side project called 'Sol Niger', which may be a bit more accessable to the less heavily inclined of prog fans out there... Either way, if you can handle very heavy... almost voilently heavy music, then getting into Meshuggah would be a _great_ thing to do, they really are something. I played them to my dad, and even though he normally hates anything heavier than Jethro Tull, he managed to appreciate Meshuggah. :) By the way - I'm surprized people don't rate The ConstruKction of Light further up in their 'fave' lists. That really is an amazing album... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 00:42:05 -0500 From: Craig Subject: Re: lumping together >To the guy who asked for Krautrock recommendations I can recommend a book >by the sainted Julian Cope called 'Krautrocksampler'. Well, that book is (at times) a fun read, (despite some of Cope`s malignant comments), but it`s rife with errors. Far better is "The Crack in the Cosmic Egg" by the Freemans (Audion) >There is a tendency to lump all 70's German bands together but there was, >of course a great diversity of sound ranging from the stripped down sound >of Kraftwerk to sprawling Hawkwind sound-a-likes like Amon Duul and Guru >Guru. Yes, & here`s a prime example....... "Sound-a-likes"??? Pleeeze....... (Talk about "lumping bands together"!) The superb Guru Guru (fronted by Axe Genrich`s acid-jazz Hendrix approach alongside the amazing drumming of Mani Neumeier, who was formerly a `60s free jazz drummer,..............no synths involved), *never* sounded *anything* like Hawkwind`s mostly simplistic 2-3 chord space-rock&roll & neither did the original Amon Duul II (on their absolutely essential first seven LPs) ~C ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:57:12 +0300 From: "Muukka, Jarmo" Subject: The Noise Hello, Has anyone noticed that the channels in The Noise are reversed? Fripp is on the right side on the set and his guitar plays on the left channel and Belew is on the right channel. Also, Bruford's right hand symbals are more left on the stereo view. The only track which this pays off is Indiscipline where part of it is shot behind of Bill. So when he hits things they are on the correct places. The sound quality is not good. Also the director probably didn't know Crimson's music because he picked the wrong guy at times. There are places where he should have picked Tony instead of Adrian. Anyway, it's a good video. Hopefully the channel mistake is corrected in DVD. JMu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 00:04:53 -0700 From: "David C." Subject: The King of all Eras I have witnessed so few live music videos who have effectively captured the poly orchestrated instrumentation as is represented on Deja.The continuous scope of panning between the players is stunning and can drive you dizzy at the same time. The film makers honestly studied the music and envisioned a sonic panoramic scope. Not only that the audio is breathtaking. Apparently every K.C. recording is not for everybody. Consider putting it side by side with another album, tape or CD if you will that was released at the same time I am sure you will find that the 80's will undoubtedly maintain its impact and longevity on your souls. The 80's contained an excessive amount of throwaways. Needless to say, K.C. will always retain its artistic relevance regardless of the era. The 70's was a far more exploratory period and the very likes of a few seasoned well versed musicians that ended up in Zep insisted on retreating to the hills to create III when the whole world wanted a copy cat clone of II. Musical homework is what it is all about. Crimson took various paths and explored different musical spectrums, never settling down. Of course shifting personnel changes contributed to this madness, however each album holds a throne of its own. I enjoy them all no more and no less. Yes Lizard is strange but so is Cage. So was Entry of the Krims. One hell of a way to open up a concert. "So you want a hit record? You have come to the wrong place. Go home. During the 70's I was taken back and blown away when the doors of perception were kicked down by Masters Krim, Return to Forever and Mahavishnu. The improvisational self indulgence jazz fusion. Yes and Genesis had chosen an alternative path, and I do appreciate both of these bands, but the Great Deceiver box set to me is captivating and awesome, regardless of blemishes. On the spot and off the cuff ala Miles. I missed Krim live back then and regrettably so. Yet the G.D. puts it where it belongs, at least for me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 05:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Mitchell Subject: KCCCs #14 & 17 I have two KCCC titles for sale. Both have been opened and listened to, but they are in excellent condition. CC#14 Live at Plymouth 5/11/71 (2CD set) CC#17 ProjeKct Two Live in Northampton 7/1/98 The former is of fair recording quality and is very listenable. The latter is a digital soundboard mix without a natural overtone in earshot. $12 each - this includes shipping anywhere in the US. Or $22 for the pair - includes shipping. Private email please. Chris yawuh2002 at yahoo dot com ===== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:29:11 +0100 From: "Richard Heath" Subject: Jazz/Lizard In response to Marcelo's question about jazz, it's one which I have often considered, though specifically in respect to KC rather than 'prog rock'. The quintessential connection for me is the essential role of spontaneous composition (i.e. improvisation). Other similarities, such as a high level of musicianship, use of unusual time signatures etc. may provide further points of connection, but are essentially secondary. The big difference is the absence of swing/the blues. Fripp's uniqueness as a guitarist stems largely from his refusal to rely on blues-based cliche, instead developing his own individual vocabulary. Whilst this approach is something which makes KC's music unique, I suspect it is also what leads many to regard them as 'cold'/'soulless' etc - one has to take the trouble to learn a new language in order to appreciate it. For me, the incarnation of the band which came closest to a conventional groove (Boz-era) was the least satisfactory, because of its willingness to tread a relatively well-worn path. For these same reasons, I would draw an absolute distinction between KC and most of what is referred to as 'prog rock', and they explain why I still listen to Crimson whilst the others form a neglected and embarrassing part of my record collection. That insistence on not resting on laurels, not making the same record twice etc. may be responsible for the band's chronic instability, but it also explains why they are still worth listening to and still exciting, whilst many of their peers continue to churn out the same old stuff 30 years later. How progressive is that? There's a story in Sid Smith's book about Fripp meeting Greg Lake in New York in 1977, and Lake's inability to understand why Fripp had no interest in working with him. There he was, selling out Madison Square Garden with a 50-piece orchestra, while Fripp's bumming arount playing little clubs with complete unknowns (Blondie, Television, Talking Heads.). The funny thing is, even in Lake's own version of the story, he comes across as an asshole - he's unable to make the distinction between artistic validity and commercial success. The question of Crimson and jazz ties in quite nicely with David Way's about Lizard. Personally I love it (apart from bits of side 2), and David doesn't say why exactly he doesn't like it. (BTW, isn't having 3 versions of an album you hate a little obsessive?;-)). Perhaps it depends largely on where you get your points of reference - I would guess most Crimfans who are also jazz fans rate it highly as well. Best wishes Richard Heath ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 23:38:28 +1000 From: "prof. Dawid" Subject: My first KC concert Hello everybody Sorry for my longish post! I'd like to write about my first KC concert ever. Unexpectedly, I noticed that according to Sid Smith's book this concert was special if you think about KC history. The concert took place on the 7th of June 1996 in Warsaw, Poland. For me it was special because it was first time I saw KC live, for KC it was special as it was their first concert behind the Iron Curtain. It's strange as usually it's Czechs and Hungarians that have an opportunity to watch western stars of rock'n'roll before us. Yet KC first played for us Poles and then for Czechs, Slovaks and Hungarians. What is more when 4 years later they played in this part of Europe again they played 3 concerts in Poland, only one in Prague and that was all. The concert of June '96 took place in Congress Hall which is the part of the huge and awful so-called The Palace of Science and Culture built, I think in the 50s, as a symbol of Polish-Soviet friendship or something. The Hall for many years was a witness of Polish Communist Party meetings and the interior is, naturally, covered in red carpets, red curtains and red armchairs. The capacity is about 2,000 seats. I don't want to go deep into details but some of you may be aware of the fact that rock'n'roll was not a favourite thing of communist leaders in the '70s and '80s. That's why only The Rolling Stones played in the Hall in those times. However, all these mega-groups from the '70s were well-known for Polish fans though naturally they did not have the chance to see them playing live. As far as KC are concerned, their first album has been loved by Poles most. The song "Epitaph" is still in the top ten of all rock'n'roll songs recorded ever and known to Poles. Still a huge hit. Just before the concert Bill Bruford was interviewed on the radio and was reminded that Polish fans had been waiting for KC for 27 years. He informed us that the band added two new songs to the set list: "The Schizoid" and "The Sheltering Sky". The fans couldn't believe it! "Schizoid" in Poland after 27 years. When I saw the audience, 80% were people in the age of Fripp himself. Those were the people who first heard KC in '69 and early '70s. I was born in '75 but by that time, I mean '96, I had already known everything with the label KC. Naturally, for those people who expected ITCOTCK songs the sounds of "Indiscipline", "Vrooom", "Thrak" etc. were not KC. I loved it though I waited for tracks from my favourite Wetton-era (namely "Larks'II, TD, Red" which were played). The audience started having real fun when they heard "Schizoid". But they couldn't be disappointed with the music (the concert was great) though they might have been with the set list. However, I am sure they were delighted and happy; they finally, eventually and at last saw KC live! There was no "Epitaph" (some people demanded it!) but the reactions afterwards were positive. So was mine. Four years later in June 2000 KC came back to Poland and Fripp was asked if he remembered that concert. He said he did and added that: "I still think about these concerts (PL, CZ, H, SVK) with hatred. I hate these concerts and the memories because KC was expected in these countries as a representative of the music from the '70s along with groups such as Yes, ELP etc. People did not come to listen to KC AD 1996 but AD 1970s. Moreover, the place was terrible..." That's what I remember about his words. It hurt many those poor and old people in Poland who for many years had dreamt to see the band live and hear "Epitaph". I didn't care because I love the entire KC catalogue and hope to see them again. They can play anything for me. But still I think about Fripp's sentence. Do you think guys that he was right to say this? Was he aware where he had come? "Expectation is a prison" but in every situation? No other group of the '70s visiting Poland have said like that. I heard "Smoke On The Water" five times, "Paranoid" three times, "Aqualung" 4 times etc. Everybody loved this no one complained. Only Fripp did. For more than a year I've been living in Australia. KC have never been here. Will I see KC play here? Will I see them third time? I am thinking that if they visited OZ what reaction of Aussies would there be. What about other countries in the world? Do you think that Fripp doesn't like visiting new places because people over there will probably behave like Poles in '96? Maybe he likes performing his music to those who have been with him for all these long years? People in NYC, LA, London, Germany etc do not want to hear "Schizoid" the 50th time but instead they want to hear something new that's why KC play for them so often? Though of course KC came back to Poland... Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 23:40:12 +1000 From: "prof. Dawid" Subject: Krautrock Hi I love Krautrock very, very much too. As well as Canterbury scene and all these jazz-rock groups. I am really into Krautrock stuff and for those who want to try it out I recommend: Can - almost everything but Monster Movie, Delay 68 and Tago Mago Ashra Tempel - I love two first LPs - Asra Tempel and Schwingungen (Superb!) Tangerine Dream - Elecronic Meditation Grobschnitt - Solar Music Live Popol Vuh - Hosianna Mantra, Tantric Songs Amon Duul II - Yeti Guru Guru - Kanguru There are hundreds of more (Neu, Faust, Cosmic Jokers etc) but you must remember that this is a very difficult genre of music. You have to "get it" otherwise it will be for you just a mass of unnecessary sounds. However, once you get it you'll love it. Good luck Dave -- http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:48:03 -0400 From: BARLETB at Nationwide dot com Subject: Opinions are like... ?..and if they could FLY, this place would be an AIRPORT! Anyway, I'm not too sure on the HATE for Beat, Admittedly the songs weren't as STRONG as Discipline or "Three", but in my opinion are VERY similar in structure and intensity. PLUS?This was actually part of the catalyst that created a Crim-fan! (and many others I'm sure) First of all, I received my copy of Modern Drummer with Bill on the cover, and being the "in the know" heavy reader (and not a KC fan at the time) that I was (and still are...am...is) read the article which also included NICE pictures of his yellow Simmons kit (with the gong bass and Octo-Bans) as well as some transcriptions, One being the drumming frenzy that starts Nuerotica! And Of COURSE being the well-versed drummer that HAS to attempt to play what he reads (no longer though?sheet music? what's that?) I attempted to learn the beginning of the tune, unheard (and did a fairly crappy job for a while). Well of COURSE I had to go buy Beat, just to see how far off I was, and pretty much enjoyed the WHOLE album! (and to my excitement I wasn't doing a half bad job at the beginning part ether! Well the tempo was a slight issue) I thought that it had a very interesting "feel" to it, and it was definitely different than anything I was listening to at the time. To continue the story of becoming a Crimson fan, I found that my interest in Bill's playing pushed me to rent Bruford and the Beat from my local drum shop that was just starting to rent drum-related videos. So of course I rented it and was exposed to a VERY interesting clip of "Larks Tongue" which in turn gave me the need to find more (which was "USA" !!! and that happened to be on cassette in the "cut out" bin) The rest is history though?? Ben ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1013 *********************************