Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1010 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1010 Friday, 23 August 2002 Today's Topics: two questions about Red Can/Faust and Crim Roxy Music and P.G. Beat/Trey/Moderating usa remaster: blowing trumpets of gold in our ears SACD Re: Kevin Max Re: Kevin Max Cover Art censorship The Great Deciever Kevin Max and Peter Gabriel Level 5 Wma stop bashing Beat Forever Sharp and Vivid; what is Elephant Talk? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:43:05 -0300 From: "Jonathan Boulter" Subject: two questions about Red Two questions about Red, surely a great Crimson album (you can't beat the structure of "Starless"). 1. I own the non-remastered version of Red: is there any major difference in sound quality between this CD and the remastered version (I presume there is a remastered version). Please, if you can, keep your mocking comments about my naivete to yourselves! I owned the album version of Red (wore it out in fact) but I'll be damned if I can hear any major quality-of-sound differences between album and CD (save for the scratches etc). Could you please let me know what the word is on the remastered Red. 2. A question for drummers: is what Bruford is playing on "One More Red Nightmare" possible for one player? By this I mean to ask if anyone knows if what he's playing is done by a single drummer in one track or has he overdubbed more fills, cymbal work? Does anyone know? The fills and breaks he plays are so extraordinarily complex, rhythmically: but they seem to be requiring more than two hands and feet: I'm especially interested if anyone knows if he's overdubbed cymbal work on the left channel: he's got a ride cymbal going in a tempo directly contrasting to that of the rest of the kit: surely it sounds as if it were recorded on mars! (I mean that in the nicest way of course). I know he's multi-tracked drum work on "Starless" and I just want to know if my awe is in the right place in "One More Red Nightmare". This is of course not to say the drumming is without value if it is multi-tracked, but if it were it would be like finding out Samuel Beckett had a ghost-writer. My best to all true fans of Crimson, Jonathan Boulter jonathan dot boulter at sympatico dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:44:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: Can/Faust and Crim In an attempt to create a new thread, I was wondering what Fripp and co, and/or ETer's thought of these Krautrock outfits... First of all Can is certainly more accessible than Faust, who really have pushed the envelope of the noise/music barrier to create something that was very original at that time...I think the drummer for Can is one of the best parts of their music, besides the electronic meltdowns and the wordless scatting by their Japanese vocalist Damao Suzuki(sp?) Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 23:06:35 -0400 From: "Michael Destefano" Subject: Roxy Music and P.G. The third Roxy Music album: Stranded has to be viewed as the logical(commercially minded) step for the band. I am in total agreement about the first two albums-but Stranded is FAR from commercial-it is the Night at the Opera and SGT Peppers of Roxy Music albums. We easilty discount good music that is graced with commercial success (granted-it's rare)- Stranded works on all the correct levels: song quality, stlye, production,surprise...Eddie Jobson became the musical glue, they understood what Eno brought to the band, but a better musician brought a more refined approach. Brian Ferry is so vastly underrated as a real artistic force-I know that the later Roxy music was a load of crap for the most part-only Viva Roxy Music( a SUPERB ALBUM IN IT'S OWN RIGHT) is worth anything.... but Brian Ferry always grew as a songwriter(brushing with unrefined genius) and a singer-he is as important an influence on 80's (low register-suave singers) as Elvis or John Lennon were for other artists. Unfortunately Stranded was the last hurrah-Country Life and Sirens were pale and shallow steps toward a larger audience, thankfully the live album Viva! contained almost all older material (except for two). The performances were incredibly inspired! One of the greatest live albums ever recorded. A short word on Peter. The third album (totally lacking any cymbals if anybody cares to know) in both English and German(slightly different mixes and the alternate take of Biko) is a GREAT AND INFLUENTIAL ALBUM! Security was mediocre, and then came the shallow "Sting and Paul Simon are the way": US...God do I hate the videos for that album! What happened? I can only grin and feel happy that most of his fans of the last 15 years are unaware of his previously dismal and negative view of life ( his true genius!) I'm sorry Biko was such a great song..he turned it into a career move........ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:15:02 +0000 From: "Nigel Baker" Subject: Beat/Trey/Moderating 1/ Regarding the latest thread of rating all the KC albums. I am surprised at the low rating of "Beat". This was the first KC album I purchased and if it wasn't for combination of Belew's "popish" songs with the more avant-garde songs I would have dismissed the band as either - - just another rock band OR - just too weird/strange I have made a compilation MP3 CD for listening to at work. When others borrow it to have a listen, they generally connect with "Two Hands", "Heartbeat", and "Matte Kudasai". So don't dismiss "Beat" it's a good LP (oops - showing my age) to introduce others to KC. 2/ Re Trey Gunn's CDs. I agree that "The Joy of Molybdenum" is good, however don't forget the other CDs "Live Encounter" and "Raw Power". I recently acquired "Gordian Knot" from amazon, WOW - GREAT album. Reccomended to anyone who likes the KC 1980s albums. I see Gordian Knot has a new CD mentioned on the Sean Malone site, however there is no sign of it anywhere for sale. This features Bill Bruford, so should be of interest to KC listeners. 3/ One of my reasons for reading ET is to find other interesting/progressive recordings. So here is something in return for any progressive ears to try : * Natacha Atlas ( _very_ eastern female vocalist. Samples available at amazon.com) * "Lamp of the Universe" - Echo in light & The Cosmic Union (psychedelic/eastern see www.cranium.co.nz for orders and samples) * Laurie Anderson (who you should all know) - Life on a String * Jean Michel Jarre - Metamorphoses 4/ Favourite Album Covers This would be Discipline; clear, concise yet intriguing. 5/ A BIG thanks to Toby & Co for putting up with all the previous chatter by people with the special dictionaries without the word MODERATOR. Nigel Baker Christchurch, New Zealand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:03:37 +0200 From: Roderich von Detten Subject: usa remaster: blowing trumpets of gold in our ears good evening hippies, just a quick response to the usa-remaster i bought yesterday: SUBLIME ! - what a brilliant release - pure energy, but subtly performed. all hail to the rhythm section, especially to john wetton! - a really outstanding contribution - the bass taking the lead on most of the time. compared to the present incarnation, there is so much more agility in the performance - more freshness, and spontaneity, and subtlety - a pin wheel of energy. crank the volume up, play it loud (this often very stupid remark never seemed more appropriate for me than in this occasion). yes: Sometimes it's like angels descending from the clouds on chariots of fire, blowing trumpets of gold in your ear. cheers, roderich ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:47:19 EDT From: CDCDB at aol dot com Subject: SACD With all the KC Remastering going on, anyone know if the recordings will be pressed in the new SACD format? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:03:01 -0400 From: "Chris Holderfield" Subject: Re: Kevin Max oh yeah.........his website is at kevinmax.com, where you can find poetry, music demos, chat, board, store, etc.............chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:09:39 -0400 From: "Matthew Dunlop" Subject: Re: Kevin Max >This is my 1st post, and have been receiving the newsletter for about 2 >weeks......Has anyone got Stereotype Be, Kevin Max's album? Adrian Belew >produced and played guitar, koto, v-drums, and did the string arrangement on >the album, and the album really rocks...........Also in the band was Tony >Levin, ex-KC member. KMAX writes with a poetry style, and most songs have >deep meanings....actually, listening to Kevin Max is what got me interested >in Adrian Belew, then King Crimson...........check it out! >chris Interestingly enough, dc Talk (the band of vocalists that K-max is from) was what broke me in to ALL music. Jesus Freak came out when I was 13 and was everything a teenager in a conservative family could hope for. While none of them played instruments the songwriting and vocal performances were quite excellent (K-max's signature dramatics are some of the best I've ever heard). Saw them 5 times live in a 4 year period. They had an extremely tight band backing them up during that period, wiring my young sensibilities to excellent live shows. After Jesus Freak they released Supernatural, a so-so blend of decent songs and pure crap. Then about a year ago they decided to all do solo projects. The other two members (Toby McKeehan and Michael Tait) kicked out mostly unimpressive formulaic records. But Ade's production and playing (as well as Levin's) made Kevin's quite intriguing. My only real complaint was that the songwriting was VERY similar to recent U2, making K-max seem like a cheap Bono ripoff. Also Kevin's poetry (which highlighted the endings of the last 2 dc Talk records) seemed much more disconnected and pointless than before (though we're treated to some signature Projekct style Ade solos during one). Overall this album isn't something I've listened to more than a couple times. I'd rather glory in the Jesus Freak days than see how they've managed to tarnish the image I had of them at 13. Going back though and listening to Jesus Freak and the live cd from the same era I realize how very rooted they were at the time in Pink Floyd and other highly proggy stuff. Supernatural had a couple very nice tunes at the end too with symphonic prog influences. So I'm hoping when they get back together they'll abandon the youthful sophomorics (they started out as cheesy rap) and really give us a solid album. Playing instruments wouldn't hurt either :) Ok so here's to intelligent posting, once again I apologize for my Artist Shop comments last week. (Thinking of making a purchase from Gary to appease my conscience about the whole mess). Cheers, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:56:21 -0400 From: "Bill Sherman" Subject: Cover Art The cover art for _Starless and Bible Black_ is by Tom Phillips, a respected British artist and a member of the Royal Academy. Phillips also did the cover art for Brian Eno's _Another Green World_ album. Phillips has a large and interesting web site at http://www.tomphillips.co.uk. His most popular work is a book called _A Humument_, which has its own web site at http://www.humument.com. The back of the _Starless and Bible Black_ album includes a little snippet of art containing the words "this night wounds time"; this is from _A Humument_ (page 222). He also translated and illustrated a beautiful edition of Dante's _Inferno_. -Bill Sherman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:55:48 -0500 From: William Jenks Subject: censorship I realize this has been beaten to death, but... There's a certain basic civics lesson here. "Censorship" is done by government. "Editing" is done by publishers. The New York Times doesn't publish a letter just because you send it in, though they publish many letters. We trust them to publish representative and insightful letters. Same with Toby. The obvious alternative (starting an unmoderated list if you're unhappy with this one) and its consequences (likely degeneration of the level of conversation) have been discussed ...and by the way, if I were Toby, I'd probably edit this one out. :-) William ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 23:53:55 -0400 From: "Jordan Clifford" Subject: The Great Deciever I just got The Great Deciever (Finally!!) and of course it is absolutely incredible. I already knew this becuase I've had it on tape for some time now, but now I finally have the set with the box and the large booklet. My question regarding this set for ETers is about this booklet: After scanning through and reading a bit in the booklet I was very confused as to why they included SO MANY reviews of the other KC boxset, Frame By Frame? I didn't expect reviews of The Great Deciever itself, of course, but what I didn't expect and didn't want was a booklet for a CD set that devotes half the pages to another release all together. I was looking more for reviews of the shows featured on the CDs, or information about the band and the players, an indepth look into what was going on for Crimson at this time period and at these shows, etc. While I'm sure some of that stuff is there because I did read Great Deciever-related material in the booklet, it's not nearly the length I expected to see. Its kind of like when a live CD has a track time of 22 minutes and the actual song is only 9 minutes while the rest of the track is taken up by audience noise, banter and other stuff that isnt the actual song. What's the deal?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:43:12 -0500 From: "Jonathon Smith" Subject: Kevin Max and Peter Gabriel I lost the post, but I remember someone mentioning Kevin Max and his record, Stereotype Be. It is a fantastic record with a studio band comprised of the aforementioned Belew and Levin, as well as John Painter and Matt Chamberlain. The album falls somewhere between The Beatles, King Crimson and maybe some Queen. I finally bought Gabriel's Melt. Very nice. It was kind of funny when I listened to it for the first time with my girlfriend. I would say stuff like, "That is definitely Robert Fripp," or "Check out Levin's stick there" or "That has to be Phil Collins." She asked me, "How can you just know that's Robert Fripp without looking at the credits?" Some things you just know. And that's the beauty of Fripp and Belew. Jonathon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:04:12 EDT From: Crazyfrank8 at aol dot com Subject: Level 5 I love the Level 5 CD but I must admit that I'm tired of King Crimson recreating the same music over and over. Level 5 itself sounds like Larks 5 and Thrak combined and little more. Maybe it's time for Fripp to pick up a banjo and Belew to write lyrics about sweet heroin and the ever looming shadow of death....or maybe how The Man has kept him and his people down all these years. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:19:16 +0300 From: "Nikos S" Subject: Wma Before 3 years I 've download the KingCrimsonLiveinMexicoCity.wma from http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.com. Since then i 've change my computer so i don't have the licence, and this web site has closed. Has anybody any solution so i can listen to this music? thank you all Nikos, Greece prastos at otenet dot gr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:20:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Wasser Dan Subject: stop bashing Beat I LOVE Beat. I don't understand all this bashing. Waiting Man touches me. (Bruford on Simmons is totally awesome.) And the bridge in Neurotica (I have no fin, no wings, no stinger, no claw ... etc.) Very heavy. And I just learned the bass line for Heartbeat. (I know, it's easy ... but I've been playing for only 4 weeks!) OK, I can live without Two Hands. I don't need to review every song, of course. But, please people, Give Beat A Chance. Dan (And, for the record, "thanks" to Toby for the excellent job he's done for years.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:00:21 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Forever Sharp and Vivid; what is Elephant Talk? >NP: forever sharp and vivid A hot one Dave! Dale asks if this is a King Crimson forum: >If so, I must say that I haven't read much >about them on it. Dale. Dale, please feel free to direct the conversation in a way that interests you. - S. np: Firesign Theatre, The tale of the giant rat of Sumatra scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1010 *********************************