Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1009 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1009 Wednesday, 21 August 2002 Today's Topics: To sum up... How I would rate Krimsos studio albums Diaries krimso cover-artwork Re: 1000 Years, other Gunn Kevin Max Cover Art & CD Packaging BTV - Video Releases? Remasters - the final batch TG albums ET: 1008: Cover Art/KC at the Pier in 84/Tape Loop Cellist Axe a silly question ... next crimso cd cover Re: Censorship one way to look at things 21st century schizoid band ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent ten editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:59:37 -0400 From: Dan Cooper Subject: To sum up... In order to summarize the last 10 or so newsletters (which I breezed through in about 20 minutes just now): 1. The consensus (to which I wholeheartedly agree) is that The Artist Shop is an excellent resource for those of us who don't pause at the "best sellers" bin when we go to our local music store - keep up the good work Gary! 2. Gabriel's first four albums (and Passion) are generally appreciated more than So and Us by Crimmies - although Levin's work on Secret World, which closes Us, is spectacular, IMHO. And there are some people who just don't dig Gabriel. That's cool -- I'm just not one of them. I can't wait for Up! 3. Any top ten list of Crimson albums is likely going to lean heavily towards historical stuff, since most of us cut our Crimson teeth (or are they fangs?!) on Discipline era or earlier. 4. I started listening to Crimson in 1981, when I was 15 (don't do the math!). It was Gabriel (and his use of Fripp and Levin) and Yes (Bruford) who attracted myself and my friends to this mysterious red album (no not Red) with the Gordian knot on the cover. I have been a happy Crimsonite ever since! 5. While censorship in general is VERY bad, moderation of this newsletter is VERY VERY good! Given some of the lame postings that get through, can you imagine the drivel that would seep through the web if Toby weren't doing his job. Thank you thank you thank you Toby!!! And now a new piece of meat to throw into the cage: I've always found Arto Lindsay to be a fascinating musician. Nowhere near the guitar chops of Belew or Fripp, but a disturbingly similar voice to Adrian's. If you don't believe me, pick up Invoke, his new album, or better yet, find the first Golden Palominos record - specifically the first track "Clean Plate." If Belew ever walks away from KC (God forbid), RF could do much worse then give Arto a call. And finally, when are we going to see a CD release of the Lone Rhino?!!!!! Ciao, DC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:08:58 -0600 From: "Mary" Subject: How I would rate Krimsos studio albums Hi everybody, Childish or not, hereis how I would rate Krimso's studio efforts: 1. Lark Tongues in Aspic I am partial to the Wetton-era of the band. The album displays the magic Muir and Cross brought to the group. 2. Red This is one red-hot mofo (pun not intended). 3. Starless and Bible Black Another great effort showcasing the great Bruford/Wetton rhythm section. 4. In the Court of the Crimson King The original, the blueplate for a hundred lesser progressive bands. Marvel at the glory of "Schizoid Man" and "Epitaph." 5. Discipline Crimson was one hot mama twenty one years ago. Every tune is wonderful. It was too bad they couldnit keep the quality up after this superb effort. 6. THRAK It was good to hear the King in the 90s. I love the heavy rockers like "VROOOM" and the lighter stuff, too. 7. The Construction of Light Hail to the Crimson King! One of the most demanding efforts Fripp and company have created. Well worth the time spent listening to. 8. Lizard The jazzy Crimson album. Demoted a half point for bringing in Jon Anderson on "Prince Rupert Awakes." 9. Islands Formentera Lady and its coda featuring soprano Paulina Lucas are a bit much for me, but the next cut, A Sailors Tale, introduces the Frippian style of playing. "The Letters" and "Ladies of the Road" feature impressive vocals from Boz. 10. The the Wake of Poseidon Sure, itis a weaker version of Court..., but listen to the majesty of the title track, and the manic anarchy of "Cat Food." 11. Three of a Perfect Pair Features two great tunes, "Sleepless" and the title track, and a lot of filler. 12. Beat This album has nothing that I care for. The first five discs I would give four stars (****) for excellent. The next two (six and seven) I would give three and a half stars (*** 1/2) for very good. Albums eight and nine I would award three stars (***) because they are good. Discs ten and eleven I would give two stars, as I feel they are mediocre. Twelfth on the list I would rate as one star (*), as it is a poor album. Anyway, thatis how I see it. Adios, Bronco Billy Jacobson np: GRA!--scissorspaperock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:48:45 -0700 (PDT) From: rone at ennui dot org (magical truthsaying bastard roney!) Subject: Diaries > Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:35:31 -0500 > From: wviland at thin-film dot com > Just last year at this time we had Blogs, or diaries as they called > them. This must have been regarded as a failed effort from Fripps > DGM vision. I would guess that they will never expose themselves in > that way again. In fact, this year the entire band will likely be > facing rear stage as the venal leader continues. Actually, Trey still has his diaries on his own Web site, , and many of the DGM diaries were moved to , including Pat's. rone ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:24:28 +0200 From: Roderich von Detten Subject: krimso cover-artwork good evening hippies, it must be summer...laziness... sunstrokes... and another "my favourite things-list": cover artwork - here is my contribution: 1. ITCOCK 2. DISCIPLINE 3. YPGKC (Young Person's Guide...) 4. The Compact King Crimson 5. USA 6. Lizard 7. Absent Lovers 8. ProjeKct Three 9. ITWoP (Poseidon..) 10. LTiA regards, roderich -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 06:11:25 -0500 From: "Lee Gray" Subject: Re: 1000 Years, other Gunn > From: "Jim Loman" > I just found a copy of Trey Gunn's "1000 "Years" in a used CD store. [...] > How do "Third Star" and "Joy of > Molybdenum" compare ? > > [ If I may chip in, I think "The Joy of Molybdenum" is superb. Tangerine > Dream meets Crimson meets Jeff Beck meets Philip Glass meets > ... erm... Trey Gunn I guess. -- Toby ] Oh, yes! I bought 1000 Years and although I like it, I was just a bit disappointed and put off buying Third Star. Later I finally took a chance on The Joy of Molybdenum and was blown away! I'm anxious to hear other opinions of Thrid Star now. Lee ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 07:43:37 -0400 From: "Chris Holderfield" Subject: Kevin Max This is my 1st post, and have been receiving the newsletter for about 2 weeks......Has anyone got Stereotype Be, Kevin Max's album? Adrian Belew produced and played guitar, koto, v-drums, and did the string arrangement on the album, and the album really rocks...........Also in the band was Tony Levin, ex-KC member. KMAX writes with a poetry style, and most songs have deep meanings....actually, listening to Kevin Max is what got me interested in Adrian Belew, then King Crimson...........check it out! chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:16:01 -0400 From: "Justin Weinberg" Subject: Cover Art & CD Packaging In ET 1008 David Vella raised the question of KC album art. My favorite KC album cover art (including front & back) is Three of a Perfect Pair. The clean, abstract symbols--intriguing designs themselves--well suit the music. Other cover designs I realy like are VROOOM, Discipline, and Starless and Bible Black (especially the back). I was most disappointed with the cover design for The Construkction of Light. While I like the small ghosts of color on the front, other features, such as the round-edged rectangles on the back and throughout the book, looked very amateurish. On a related note, it would be good to see KC do something different with the way their CDs are packaged. The mini-gatefolds for the remasters are interesting, but kind of a throwback. There are some interesting modern designs out there. For example: The jazz/avant label Winter & Winter created a package that looks and feels like a small hardcover book. The book opens and the CD slips and locks into a space between oddly cut layers of thick, stiff black cardboard. For an example check out "Splay" by drummer Jim Black (the music is, uh, "shoegazer jazz"(?)--rubbery, at times mellow, at times simple, at times falling apart--good, but hard to describe, and not for everyone). The recent releases from another jazz label, Screwgun, also feature an innovative packaging: a color cardboard folder, with the disc held inside by a tiny octagonal peg of foam which the CD slips onto. For an example check out the utterly amazing "Science Friction" by Tim Berne (KC fans with any liking of jazz will really like this disc, Berne's "tightest" to date--Tom Rainey's drumming alone will make you fall over, not to mention the funky, odd-metered melodies, Marc Ducret's poetic and wild guitar, and some electronic cutting & pasting by David Torn). In addition, many of you may be familiar with the packaging Tony Levin has put together for some of his Papa Bear Label releases. Here, a cardboard tri-fold has a slot for a CD and a slot for a booklet. See Levin's "World Diary" for an example. Of course none of this really matters as much as the music! Justin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:14:16 -0400 From: "Fritz Kiffmeyer" Subject: BTV - Video Releases? Something that has been in the back of my mind for some time is the whole Bootleg TV venture, which I have a question about. BTV had recorded, both audio and video, several shows during the TCOL tour. They were taking orders as they were recording these shows. I know that BTV has since gone defunKCt, but what happened to these tapings? Any chance they'll show up as a KCCC future release? KC Video Club perhaps? - Fritz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:12:58 +0200 From: h dot van dot de dot schoot at philips dot com Subject: Remasters - the final batch I bought the last 3 remasters yesterday (monday august 19). - Earthbound is now more than listenable. It sounds much better than my old 1972 lp. The performances are very good. - USA is fantastic. I liked the album directly from the start. Asbury sounds much better than on the Frame by frame box set. The first track, walkon, is also on the lp, but not as a seperate track.The 2 new tracks are very good. The album ends in what seems to be a Frippian ending: 2.5 minutes of applause, not faded away, but abruptly stopped. - Thrak. Until yesterday I was thinking: nah, do not need that, but as I was standing in the shop (and they were not cheap!), i got greedy and bought it, to get the set complete (blush, blush). I spend most time comparing this one to my 'old' THRAK. I am the happy owner of an above average audiosystem, and I think I hear a difference....or do I want to hear it? Anyway, I think the new remaster sounds better: the sound is more analog (I know this sounds a bit weird, but this is a general feeling I have when comparing CD re-issues of 10 years ago and some of the nice remasters of today: the AD convertors and all the rest of the equipment is much better and the overall result is that the sound becomes clearer, yet less hard, in a word: natural. And one could call that analog. Even with the volume cranked up, the sound does not become harsh). I think it is a pity that we did not have the thoughts of Frip himself online, while doing the remasters, as we had with the previous batches. Yes, having all these Crim gems standing together in my CD cabinet makes me feel good. np: Lament from USA groetjes, Henk van de Schoot ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:37:04 -0400 From: "Justin Weinberg" Subject: TG albums In ET 1008 Jim Loman asked about Trey Gunn's albums. Let me say this: of all current and previous KC members to release albums under their own names, not one--not even Fripp--has put out more satisfying such material than Trey Gunn. (One exception may be Keith Tippet, whose works I am largely unfamiliar with.) (Flamers please note this is not to say that solo-titled works by Fripp and Belew, for example, are not good. Although Bruford...well, uh, hmm.) Since, Jim, you already have 1000 Years, I would recommend next purchasing Third Star. It is very good. I like it better than 1000 Years. It is more interesting, funkier, and has more independent personality than 1000 Years. Then, after enjoying that for a while, buy Joy of Molybdenum. It is very very good. Scratch that. It is excellent. His best yet. The reason I recommend getting TS before JM is the same reason that, when tasting wines or cheeses, you start off with lighter and mellower ones, and work your way up to the blockbusters--when they're all good, you don't want the strongest one's eclipsing the others. Those are the essentials. If you like live albums, you'd enjoy Gunn's "Live Encounter." For a look at some of his earliest output, you can check out the collection "Raw Power." Currently, I'm awaiting the release of Gunn's road diaries CD-Rom. I'll let you know how it is. Justin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:49:19 -0400 From: Michael dot Russell at mercerdelta dot com Subject: ET: 1008: Cover Art/KC at the Pier in 84/Tape Loop Cellist In reply to David Vella: My favorite KC cover is "Lark's Tongues In Aspic." I can not quite say why--the symmetry and focus of the design, it's duality incorporating male/female, waxing/waning, day/night, direct/oblique--the thing just grabs me! I have a very nice scan of it as my laptop desktop. In reply to Ryan Tassone's delightful description of the closing chord to LTinA, Pt. II: I was a huge Black Sabbath fan in the mid seventies, largely thanks to Tony Iommi's incredibly crude guitar sound. When a friend played me the beginning of Red and the end of Pt. II, I was hooked by the sheer wall of fuz on the guitar--for me, it's always about tone. (Billy B is my favorite drummer 'cause of the sound of his snare.) Shortly after, I recall reading an interview in which Fripp was asked what gear he used to get his sounds. He replied that he could get his tone with most stop boxes, and that distortion was really a state of mind. In reply to L. Bruce Higgins: I was at the same Crimson show at the Pier, NYC in '84. I had an EG pass, 'cause my friend, Vincent was the keyboard player in a band called The Rescue, manged by Patrick Spinks of EG. EG had gotten The Rescue signed to A&M Records, who had just released a five song EP called Messages. Since EG was focused on Crimson's '84 tour and a host of other distractions, The Rescue weren't getting any support, and neither EG or A&M were promoting them, landing them gigs, or really doing much of anything. Vincent was horribly frustrated, so a great Crim gig which we both enjoyed immensely was bracketed by Vincent's concern that his band was missing it's one real chance. Later, A&M dropped the band after they recorded some more material. The members were informed that the tapes, copyrights, EP and even the name of the group were A&M's property, and they had to pay $90,000. back to the label to clear their "obligation." Though they sold 7,000 copies of Messages, nobody in the band saw any money from it, and A&M considered that figure ridiculously low. The band collapsed as a result--getting signed was actually the worst thing that could have happened to them. I could not believe that EG could be part of such a horror story. After 1991, when Fripp began publishing his experiences, Vincent's story seemed to fit into place. Endless Grief . . . In reply to Jeff Runkle's looping electric cellist question: This is a total stretch, but you got me thinking about electric cellists (admitedly a finite set). Are you thinking about Fred Frith collaborator, the late Tom Cora? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:02:56 -0500 From: "David F. Snyder" Subject: Axe a silly question ... RE: > Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:05:54 -0500 > From: wviland at thin-film dot com > Subject: Careful with that axe > > What's the skinny on this video? Does it exist? If so how can I find it? It's available at DGM, just look under the video selection. David Snyde ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:32:14 -0400 From: "Guertin Pierre" Subject: next crimso cd cover You know, one could get a preview of the cover of the next Crimso studio album. In the 10.8.02 entry of P.J.Crook's diary, she mentions that the title of the painting to be used as a cover for that album is "IT COULD BE US" (owned by Professor Philip and Nancy Kotler in Chicago). Earlier, in her 24.6.00 entry, she writes "Received copy of an American magazine showing my big painting IT COULD BE US". So, one needs now only to figure out wich magazine she's talking about, get a hold of the right number, and one could see this next cover. .... Probably waiting to see it will be faster. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:17:37 -0500 From: "Brothers, Michael (IA)" Subject: Re: Censorship If you can handle one more post on the moderation vs. censorship debate, I will relate a quick story. Back when KC was on tour with Tool, a gentleman posted a very long, unfunny essay comparing Tool to Christina Aguilera. My initial reaction was outrage, and I wrote back a scathing post, questioning the gentleman's parentage and general worth as a human being. Thanks to Toby and his moderation, you were all spared these unwarranted, spur-of-the-moment comments. We don't need personal attacks on this list, and I apologize for ever trying to foist one upon you. Take Care, mike Michael S. Brothers 515-252-4489 515-252-4589 (fax) "You can't handle the truth. Nooo truth handler you. I deride your truth handling abilities." - Sideshow Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:39:31 -0500 From: Albert Oller Subject: one way to look at things Hi All, I really like how Mike McGlaughlin said something in ET 1007: >>I just don't understand what people see in Level 5 (I thought I got it but then I realised I didn't). It is nice how he says that he doesn't understand, rather than "Level 5 sucks!", or goes on a screed about how evil and deficient the musicians are who produced something that doesn't appeal to him. I happen to enjoy "Level 5", and I think I understand what is going on; or at least it means something to me. That doesn't make me better than Mike, and it doesn't make "Level 5" bad music because he doesn't get it, or it doesn't get to him. One thing captivating about "Level 5" is 'Dangerous Curves'. It seems like a modern amalgam of 'Devil's Triangle', 'Talking Drum' and 'Indiscipline'. There is an ominous staccato field laid by the strings, with a skittering, flailing percussionist roaming all over. I love it. Regards, ago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:53:32 +0100 From: "Len Picott" Subject: 21st century schizoid band My first post after lurking for several years.... I'm not really into KC first incarnation, though I know many of you are - so, other Crimheads in the UK may like to know about this upcoming gig: Mon 30 Sep 2002, 7:45 pm Queen Elizabeth Hall, London 21st Century Schizoid Band Michael Giles Peter Giles Ian McDonald Mel Collins Jakko Jakszyk "After more than three decades, four of the original King Crimson members reunite under the collective banner of the 21st Century Schizoid Band. Taking their name from the classic King Crimson track, the group brings together elements of the original King Crimson on stage for the first time sinces 1969. Witness the band revisiting classic repertoire of the first few albums and studio material which has never been performed live." More info and tickt info at: > http://www.rfh.org.uk/main/events/84686.html?section=&file=&view= Enjoy! cheers Len len_picott at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1009 *********************************