Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: moderator at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: moderator at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #1003 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 1003 Sunday, 11 August 2002 Today's Topics: Thanks Toby et al; Get Crafty; other Crafty rereleases? 21st Century Schizoid Band How's the sound quality in Earthbound? The example of DGM... and Collectors Club 12! Before Starless Issue 1000 ET #1000 John Miller? The 21stCSB ET 1000 an ebay item some of you may be interested in... Off by 20 years Can anyone help Tony Levin find a tape of the Seattle show? Re: Teenage Crim fans A Late Congratulations! Re: IN THE COURT ET Submission: Y1Kc Bug Re: ET 1000 Mexico City 1996 Re: censorship Elephant Talk/King Crimson. State-of-the-art music appy poly loggies: in regards to grammar Dann's review of Centrozoon; San Diego Tribute article Ranking Albums Enjoying KC has no minimum age requirement re Guitar Craft and Level 5 (people paid for this..!) "censorship" - oh yeah? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.shtml You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.7b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:54:37 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Thanks Toby et al; Get Crafty; other Crafty rereleases? Thank you to the management for 1000 volumes of Elephant Talk. [ Thanks -- Toby ] >The third release from the Crafty Guitarists was Get Crafty I. As far as I know, it was only released on cassette in very limited quantities. It was the third release that featured the Crafty Guitar students. I'm wondering if that tape or any part of it ended up on Show of Hands? Any help would be appreciated. None of Get Crafty wound up on Show of Hands. >I respectfully request its release on CD, and also an HDCD Remaster of the Editions E.G. title Toyah and Fripp-The Lady or the Tiger? It is a charming reading of two short stories with musical accompaniment. I would also purchase both titles if they were available from somewhere. Perhaps when the Seattle Guitar Circle gets a label going, they can release these titles. >Thu 26 Sep 21st Century Schizoid Band The Brook Southampton I hope that the Schizoid Band can come to the US at some time. > http://www.gregsegal.com/dreamcovers.htm Thanks Greg! - S. np: Radiohead, Amnesiac scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:33:07 EDT From: EkimDwod at aol dot com Subject: 21st Century Schizoid Band Anyone hear anything about US dates? How about recording? They need to be recorded and passed around. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 01:49:06 -0400 From: "Nik Smith" Subject: How's the sound quality in Earthbound? Is it improved from the LP? and how's USA? Worth buying? Thanks, -Nik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:58:09 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: The example of DGM... and Collectors Club 12! Fripp may have declared DGM an unworkable business model, but it was heartening to pick up 'Shortwave Postcard,' a terrific new disc of improvisations by guitarists Alex DeGrassi and G.E. Stinson on the Italian label Auditorium, and read the following on the back tray card: "Auditorium is an artist owned label. Follwing the example of DGM, the phonographic copyright in these performances is operated by Auditorium on behalf of the artists, with whom it resides, contrary to common practice in the recording industry. We accept no reason for artists to assign the copyright interests in their work to either record company or management by virtue of a 'common practice' which was always questionable, often improper, and is now indefensible." The disc, by the way, is pretty great if you're into abstract expressionist guitar-playing - a nice combination of pastel and Pollock, it seems to me. DeGrassi is probably best known for being one of the original Windham Hill solo players; Stinson was a founder of the world-fusion group Shadowfax before moving on to darker, more challenging areas. He's been mentioned here before, by me and others, for having participated in the Cline-Gauthier-Stinson 'Rite of Violet' disc that was allegedly the preferred listening of the Double Trio on one of their tours. (You should also keep an eye out for an impending release by Bone Structure, Stinson and Gauthier's band with Steuart Liebig and Gregg Bendian, which is about as close to Crimson improv circa '74 as any live band I've ever heard.) Anyway, anyone who wants to track down 'Shortwave Postcard' might start here: www.auditoriumedizioni.it. In unrelated news, has anyone else noticed that all of a sudden Collectors Club 12, the Hyde Park '69 performance, is now listed on the DGM website as "cleared for release"? No date mentioned, but good news nonetheless. Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com NP - Andrew Hill, "5 MO," 'A Beautiful Day' (Palmetto) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:32:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: Before Starless On ET 995, Ronald Vogel wrote: >Other nice suggestions will also be the american leg >of 1973 2nd semester. The Arlington Texas show has a >wonderful 14 minute Fracture version with a longer >middle section. That middle section includes some bits of the that fast 13/8 Starless Section (after the 'tension' segment). It's not exacly the same, obviously, but the drums as well the bass ostinato is very similar. And then again, on the "West Palm Beach" show (June 21, 1973, a very shouted gig), before Talking Drum and after some mellotron/violin based psychodelic improv, the very first segment of Starless, that slow 4/4 with both mellotron and violin playing, appears, which evolves on some improv. Very interesting. I really miss a '1973 first semester' show, as my friend Ronald asked, because there were some very nice a la trio improvs, with Wetton playing incredible bass lines, without eating the guitar/violin. Edgar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 21:46:11 EDT From: RLTOWLER at aol dot com Subject: Issue 1000 Question: > "Who wants to read about Jim Morris an his doors on all dem Bossom Tomes an > dat King Crimso when ye've herd bands like '"Britney Spears" Answer: I quess there are a few of us around. Bob T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:38:23 +0100 From: "Martin" Subject: ET #1000 A warm and happy congratulations on reaching a thousand. I expect there will be a number of much more celebrated contributors to this issue, but I thought I'd add my own humble salutation. I wonder though, will this issue be held back till the historical and august 19th of August? Good wishes to all Martin Lennon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:28:19 -0000 From: Richard dot REES-JONES at nao dot gsi dot gov dot uk Subject: John Miller? Hello Who was John Miller, whose death is currently being noted on the DGM home page? thanks Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:19:43 +0100 From: "Amos_Brailey" Subject: The 21stCSB I'm faintly surprised at the lack of chat here about what could well prove to be " THE " tour of 2002 ...... I'm fired up for these gigs, especially their debut at the Canterbury fest !. I think it could end up as the contemporary equivalent of the famous Crimso The Great's performance at Hyde Park in 1969, I have a feeling this gig will go down in Crim history as kinda HOT !!. I'm not expecting nostalgia per se, nor do I think we'd get it anyway. In some respects I don't want it, in others I do ( that's just my Schizoid nature kicking in ) but hey, there will be King Crimson music played to King Crimson audients. This grouping is a fine one of that I've no bout adout it, and I appeal to those that would excuse me breaching the boundary whilst maintaining respect for the museum, for ' tis rude to shout in the library. OK, so ...... i.m.h.o. I think that the 21stCSB will blow the minds of many brethren that wear the Crimson cloak. The interplay between Ian and Mel should be fantastic, Jakko is not RF, nor should I wish it upon him to be. I've seen Jakko play and he's GOOD. I've also seen Peter Giles play and it will be interesting to see him in a more "muscular" role. If Mike can still hack it energy wise and employ the jazz feel with the classical undertones in his drumming then these gigs will be awesome. For anyone sceptical, I'd say please try to like things you don't like sometimes, if only to try to like them, or understand why you don't understand. I've not yet hit top gear in my range roving discovery and my ears are always open (if only a tad). I will therefore attempt to attend these concerts with an open mind. I sit here pondering the validity of this missive now beyond my selfish interests. For this reason I'll pull my hood up, fasten my toggles and slip back into the abyss of the web and await the why's, where's, if's, maybe's etc. I just hope the lads will be supported well and attendances are enough to fill ALL seats, these guys deserve it !!. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:38:26 -0300 (ART) From: Ronald Miklos Vogel Subject: ET 1000 I wish to thank you all for making it alive for so much time. Special thanks for Toby who has a never ending patience of reviewing our written material and compiling it. It has been very useful for me lots of reasons and I think it is useful for KC as well. Ronald Vogel (Brazil) Yahoo! PageBuilder - O super editor para criacao de sites: e gratis, facil e rapido. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 15:42:27 EDT From: RHartsock at aol dot com Subject: an ebay item some of you may be interested in... Hey guys, This isn't mine, but it looks very cool! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=895811881 Rich ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:53:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Bing Crosby Subject: Off by 20 years >From Tamm's book (chapter 8). Off by exactly 20 years, but still very strange... The Drive to 1981 By September 11, 1978, Fripp considered himself prepared to launch a new phase of his career. On that date he began what he dubbed "The Drive to 1981," which he was to describe as "A campaign on three levels: firstly, in the marketplace but not governed by the values of the marketplace; secondly, as a means of examining and presenting a number of ideas which are close to my heart; thirdly, as a personal discipline." The end of the Drive to 1981 was timed to coincide with an event of astrological significance, an alignment of the planets to take place on September 11, 1981, at which time, Fripp evidently believed, mankind was in for an awakening of apocalyptic import. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:15:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Roy DeRousse Subject: Can anyone help Tony Levin find a tape of the Seattle show? Can anyone help Tony Levin? Here is his plea from http://www.tonylevin.com/index.shtml: "I've mentioned this before but will try again. Last April, at the Seattle show of the Tony Levin Band tour, Trey Gunn sat in for a great improv that morphed into Elephant Talk. Our DAT tape chose that night to not work right, and as I'm starting to mix the live cd of tracks from the tour, it'd be really nice to have a recording of that to use as a bonus track. (E. Talk, the normal band version, will be on there.) So if anyone taped that show, and is willing to share the tape, would you please contact us about it (at levinband at aol dot com). I find it amazing that, with so many shows being bootlegged, that night, with us trying to tape it, and the audience told they're welcome to tape, nothing seems to have survived. It serves as a reminder of how special the real-time event of music can be." ===== Roy DeRousse roylayer at msm dot umr dot edu (Please use this, not the yahoo.com address. Thanks!) Attend ProgDay! (An International Festival of Progressive Rock) Chapel Hill, NC. Aug. 31 and Sept. 1, 2002. HAPPY THE MAN, KRAAN, AVANT GARDEN, DJAM KARET, IZZ, THE MUFFINS, TEMPANO, and THIEVES' KITCHEN. Friday Show: DARK AETHER PROJECT, FRENCH TV, SMOKIN' GRANNY web: http://www.progday.com e-mail: progday at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 16:58:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jimmy Bob Subject: Re: Teenage Crim fans Well, I'm 16, and I've been listening to KC for about 2.5 years. After Crimson, I also like prog bands like ELP, Yes, Pink Floyd, and Jethro Tull. Other bands/artists include the likes of Led Zeppelin, Billy Joel, Tool, Simon & Garfunkle, The Doors, A Perfect Circle, and The Beatles. Those are my preferences, but I can listen to just about anyting. -Nic ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:19:56 +0100 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: A Late Congratulations! Well, 1001 is just as stunning a number as 1000 if you ask me. I've only been reading ET since uh, 1995... Thanks for all the hard work put to emailing and maintaining all of this. The interchange with others of like mind (and sometimes not of like mind!) continues to be good stuff even 7 years later. :) Stephen P. Goodman EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week! http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front.html - Cartoons! http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack.html - More Cartoons! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:18:45 +0200 From: "Prozzz" Subject: Re: IN THE COURT >Hi ET, >I have IN THE COURT on CD and the track breaks are >messed; MOONCHILD >has two >minutes in EPITAPH. Is it like this on all copies or >is mine defective? >(Thought I'd ask, seeing the question of the ISLANDS >CD.) > Also is anyone else who gets this a teenager? I'd >like to know if >there >is another person my age who listens to prog. Or are >you all 30s+? > Thanks -Anna. I do not think that this is normal at all lol It must be a pressing problem, I got the same thing one time when I burned a cd-r (not of KC material of course!)... go exchange this cd! ;) And btw, I'm deep, deep (35 records) into KC and I'm only 18yo, but since I heard 21stCSM it was the big crush! I think the best age to get into KC is when you hear 21st CSM ;) St elmo ps: Thanks to all the answers for my request of the 4th first KC in Paper Sleeve, I know have them all... waiting for Thrak re-release ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 07:56:49 EDT From: MikeTEACHR at aol dot com Subject: ET Submission: Y1Kc Bug Hello! Was anyone a bit nervous opening the Elephant Talk #1000 file? I had heard rumours of a "Y1Kc" problem. The problem, it seems, is your computer reads the "1000" as "000" and Hence reverts back to 1990, before ET existed. Your computer will function as it did in 1990: 33Hz Processor Speed 1 Meg of Ram 2400 Baud Modem Only accepts 5" Floppies.... ...Oh Dear. Mike Not Listening to: "The Fan on My Computer" by Compaq ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:23:44 -0400 From: Steve Rewa Subject: Re: ET 1000 Thanks to Toby et al. I'm sorry I didn't post this in time for #1000, but I think it's still worth saying. This digest has given me a more well rounded appreciation for King Crimson who I really only recently discovered. I'm enjoying myself immensely with Jim Beckwith's music exchange which I owe to you guys as well. I hope you keep up the good work. I'm still lamenting the loss of the St. Cleve Chronicle and hope I don't find ET going that way any time soon. Anon, -Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:26:14 +0200 From: Wilfried_Jurkowski at candle dot com Subject: Mexico City 1996 Hallo, who can help me to get the LIVE IN MEXICO CITY 1996 on BOOTLEG TV thanks Wilfried Jurkowski Sulzerstrasse 162 D-72218 Wildberg e-Mail: wilfried_jurkowski at candle dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:25:11 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: censorship > I guess the only way I can truly make people understand why I > believe that moderation -- CENSORSHIP -- is essential, in order to > produce a decent newsletter, is to show you the kind of posts that get > censored.. er, I mean, "moderated". Moderation is completely unnecessary, and in this case, largely ineffective, partially because it's based on the opinions of a single individual who decides what does or does not make a "decent" read, rather than on some pre-established, majority agreed upon guidelines. The real problem with the moderation on E-Talk is that is done without a reasonable rationale, with little regard to the feelings of most of the readership. [ If I may be frank, I will simply say this: "Bollocks". You say: "Moderation is completely unnecessary". Perhaps, if you're not concerned with trying to establish a little Quality Control. ET is a moderated newsletter, so I moderate, as best as I can. -- Toby ] Threads with a lot of traffic get censored - even ones that are "on-topic" (ie, Crimson related) - despite the fact that people are obviously interested in the subject, or else so many wouldn't be posting. Yet spam from CD stores like the Artist Shop and local bands with no direct connection to Crimson continue to clog the digests. If something is going to be censored, there should be rules set-up ahead of time, for instance no "off topic" posting. It's inane that one person up and decides to "kill" a thread, just because he is sick of it, even though dozens or even hundreds of others are not. But again, this is a Robert Fripp worship list, and some people feel the need to emulate Fripp right down to his control-freak tendencies. --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:46:43 EDT From: IanSharwood at aol dot com Subject: Elephant Talk/King Crimson. Dear Toby No apologies for the typically English introduction which appears to be excluded from net correspondence these days; 'manners maketh the man' I was always taught! Well done, I know not from where you obtain your patience. Any conflict over which is, or was, the best King Crimson line-up is in my opinion utterly irrelevant. The various incarnations of the band have continued to enthral me to a greater or lesser extent since seeing the 1971 live version (with Boz, Ian Wallace and Mel Collins) and subsequently buying 'In the court' the following day. Keep up the good work. You have my heart felt sympathy. Yours Sincerely. Ian Sharwood. (I continue to applaud good English language customs!) [ Thank you -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:20:28 +0000 From: "Marcelo Rodriguez" Subject: State-of-the-art music Hi to all KC fans! After reading messages about King Crimson from fans around the world, I'm very glad to see that we have coincidents feelings and views abt this extraordinary music. You know, I come from Rosario, Argentina, and sometimes it's extremely difficult to experience such this kind of music (I mean, to attend at live concerts) and to find unconditional KC followers. This is not music for the masses (I would not say for "exclusive people", neither!), but I have the feeling that people who like this music are, in any way, "special". THese are hard times for those who like "high quality" music, as "rubbish music" is constantly overwhelming us, everywhere... For anyone who want to contact me thru this site, I hope you'll be able to find mi e-mail address enclosed... Bye Bye! Marcelo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:38:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: appy poly loggies: in regards to grammar You would think with all the care given to grammatical correctness that this factor alone would make it pleasent enough to read through this newsgroup week in and week out. You would think so, but... It takes more than correctly placed grammar to make a newsgroup interesting. Content is also required. [ er... yes, right. -- Toby ] Hope that this wasn't made too blatantly obvious previous to my posting. If so, I apologize! Did, I, forget, a, comma? __________________ Man is condemned to be free. -Sartre __________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 16:28:05 -0700 From: "Scott Steele" Subject: Dann's review of Centrozoon; San Diego Tribute article >If you liked the "Exposure" version of "Here Comes The Flood" and imagined what it would sound like rearranged for ProjeKCt Three, that's a useful reference point. Ha. Excellent. Thanks Dann. >Subject: Guitar Craft and Level 5 (people paid for this..!) Lawrence - Thanks for the article, I enjoyed reading it. I'd like to hear from Crafties on the subject of whether the article reflected reality for them. >I'm delighted to inform one and all of the arrival of "A Musical Guide To King Crimson by Andrew Keeling". This is a projected series of multimedia CDs (one per album) that hopefully will become available through DGM in due course. This is outstanding news. Thanks for your efforts in putting it out. When DGM carries them I will get them. - S. np: Dean Brown, Here scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 17:49:30 -0700 From: "Moshier, John T" Subject: Ranking Albums Here's my favorite studio releases: 1. Red 2. Larks' Tongues in Aspic 3. Thrak 4. Discipline 5. Beat 6. The ConstruKction of Light 7. In The Court of the Crimson King 8. Three of a Perfect Pair Probably no surprise, given the top two preferences, but my favorite release of all is the Great Deceiver box set. John Moshier ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 20:48:24 -0700 From: CWilson Subject: Enjoying KC has no minimum age requirement In the Millenium Edition of ET, Kevin Marriott stated: > I started reading/lurking when I was 19 (24 now). I > think around 20 seems to be a good age to start > getting into KC. > I most humbly most heartily disagree!!! I'm 43 and my son (decanted 3/14/80) has listened to KC on the family stereo from day 1. From LP to CD, he's heard everything. At age 6 he was assisting me playing air guitar to Discipline. He was furious that the 7/26/96 show in Vegas was 'over 18 only.' (I mean REALLY upset!!!) (And I really wish he could have seen the double trio lineup as I consider that the ultimate KC lineup) Kid was broke so I paid for the 11/23/01 show in Madison, WI after which he swore eternal allegiance to me. :) As the gatefold editions come out, he receives my "definitive" editions, further locking in his allegiance. The point being: good music is good music, be it Mozart or the Fripper and hearing the good stuff has no 'minimum age requirement.' Repeating my call that all KC releases are 5.1 SACD, Chuckles -- "Coppula Eam, Se Non Posit Acceptera Jocularum" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 13:41:27 +0800 From: Errol Tout Subject: re Guitar Craft and Level 5 (people paid for this..!) Gee - this bloke wasted his money didn't he? Errol H. Tout ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 10:03:52 +0100 From: "D. Chinn" Subject: "censorship" - oh yeah? Obviously I'm not party to what Toby filters/censors as regards ET postings, but I've got to say that as far as I can see he's a remarkably patient and liberal moderator. A lot of fairly longwinded posts (mine included) have come through unscathed, and the only time he's really cracked down publically is when a thread just gets too ponderous, like a stuck conversation at a party. Folks, what Toby does is EDITING. Like the editor of any national or local newspaper, trying to create a coherent letters page from the rush of material that arrives in the letterbox. It might involve removing rambling paragraphs, or trimming those moments where people doggedly repeat themselves. It might involve discarding junk mail disguised as correspondence. Overall, it involves putting correspondence in order to provide a readable flow of ideas. Toby Howard wrote > I guess the only way I can truly make people understand why I > believe that moderation -- CENSORSHIP -- is essential, in order to > produce a decent newsletter, is to show you the kind of posts that get > censored.. er, I mean, "moderated". But I can't really do that (and > anyway, my life is too short I reckon we appreciate that, Toby, but might it be possible for you to list and paraphrase a few examples of the junk you have to filter for us? A few sample sentences (and summaries in brackets) showing the kind of things that need to be weeded out? Something along the lines of the spoof April Fool issue of ET you did a few years ago, but serious. Afterwrds, this could then be posted on the main ET site in the same way that the FAQ list is. Yes, this would take up some of your time, but it might head off most of the argument on this developing "censorship" thread before it starts to drag... For the record, I'm all for free speech. I'm not, however, in favour of suffering ballsaching tedium or constant irritation while I'm reading a newsletter full of ill-shaped postings and flabby arguments. The fact that I don't generally feel that way when reading ET suggests that Toby's doing a good job with his little butterfly net and "delete" key. ;-) Besides, I think there are rather more important censorship issues to worry about in the world at large, don't you? Forgive me if I'm more concerned with biotech companies rush-releasing GM material in secret, American academics losing their jobs through expressing misgivings on the "war against terror", governments selling out our civil rights behind closed doors to favour multinational companies' business arrangements... Rather more important, don't you think, than alleged conspiracy theories about stifling our desires to argue over Bruford's snare technique, girlfriends who are into Crim, or whether Trey looks sexy in leather? Plus I'm sure that anyone who really feels that Toby is stomping all over our rights to free expression is entitled to set up their own Crimson newsletter. I'd be willing to bet that Toby would let them publicise it in ET. And I'd also be surprised if it was really that much different in content from ET. cheers, Dann np: Sonic Youth - "Daydream Nation" [ Thank you for those positive comments. Very helpful, and I'll try to act on them. Cheers. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ End of Elephant Talk Digest #1003 *********************************