From toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Thu Jun 18 09:17:09 1992 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 21 Oct 91 17:27:08 BST Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: discipline #10 discipline, Number 10 Monday, 21 October 1991 Today's Topics: Re: Boxed Set, Bruford and Gong, more Minced Mincer Re: mellotron (again) Re: discipline #9 Fripp playing with Hall&Oates and Toyah some frippery for ya! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Your friendly moderator says... How about us getting a really good Fripp discography together? If someone would volunteer to get the ball rolling and edit it, we could come up with something good! Any volunteers? Also, I just read Eric Tamm's book "Robert Fripp: from King Crimson to Guitar Craft" at the weekend. His description of his Crafty week was fascinating, but I'd like to know more. Are there any crafties on this list who could tell us their experiences? And finally, does anyone know what the sung words are in "Thela Hun Ginjeet"? And now, on with the digest... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1991 14:17:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Patrick Arnold Subject: Re: Boxed Set, Bruford and Gong, more In Discipline #9, Greg Hatch writes: >I heard from a record store (I heard him call the distributor) that >distributors would get the box set Wednesday (the 16th). I just wanted to confirm that the CD Warehouse here in the bay area also said that it was mailed off on Wednesday the 16th and should be in by early next week. In same article, same dude writes: >Is the set worth getting? (I don't even have all the regular >releases yet). Duhh. Let's just review the excerpt John Relph gave us in Discipline #4 >From Issue 54, Sept 91, International CD Exchange Newsletter: All of the set's 45 tracks were remastered and many were remixed by Fripp, sometimes with new vocal or instrumental parts added. Fripp reportedly tapped into his own collection for photographs and information for the set's extensive 64-page color booklet. The first three CDs are studio recordings, with the fourth disc being comprised of previously unreleased live material dating back as far as 1969. Given that there may be some unheard-of parts in the remixes and that there are no US releases of live Crimson (except on video), I'd say this is probably going to be very worthwhile to own. In Discipline #7, Mark Friedman writes: >I also want "I Advanced Masked" on CD! It is! But as a Japanese import. Look around. Drive to nearby metropolises, find this CD. But be warned, the only price I found on the only copy I found (at Record-Rama near Pittsburgh, PA) was about $45 (!!!). I begged the owner to swear to me that no domestic release was impending, just to calm my psyche. Ooops, almost forgot my Bruford and Gong question. Okay, so I know Bruford played with Gong around '75-'77 ish, but did his playing make it onto any recordings, and if so, are they available on CD? I got the "Wingful of Eyes: Retrospective '74-'77" but I couldn't tell if Bruford was on it, and no credits are given (except that I could tell by his playing and authorship that Allan Holdsworth obviously plays on several tracks). Is anybody a Steve Tibbetts fan? If you're not and you call yourself a Crimson freak, check this stuff out. It kicks. Notes: (1) Thanks to those with a good eye and noted that Tood Bowles is Paul Bowles "The Sheltering Sky", and the replies for Braless and Slightly Slack. (2) I still think the dots are raised funny in the name King Crimson on the back cover to Starless and Bible Black. It's the exact same font as found on Larks' Tongues in Aspic, but the i's in King Crimson have the dots raised compared to the latter. And also compared to other i's on the same cover. So, it's got to be some kind of conspiracy. (3) Is everyone sure that the "Fripp Journals" are exactly the same as the stuff found in "The Young Person's Guide" booklet? I wasn't under this impression (I only have the booklet). - Brian [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 18 Oct 91 17:21:28 PDT From: walters at agar dot Metaphor dot com (Tim Walters) Subject: Minced Mincer Phil Kime asks: Hoping that someone out there can tell me if I have just a knackered tape....I have S&BB on tape and the end of The Mincer cuts out really abrubptly. After checking, it seems that this is due to the recording running onto the tape leader!! Does anyone know if there were many tapes made with this fault? As far as I can tell, not much is missed off but its rather annoying anyway. The vinyl is like this as well. I always liked the effect myself. Like most of S&BB, "The Mincer" was recorded live; I assume they ran out of tape at that point, but decided to use it anyway. Tim [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: rjp1 at cbnewsc dot cb dot att dot com (be here now) Subject: Re: mellotron (again) Date: 18 Oct 91 22:15:29 GMT > The very first uses of it (*speaking just of rock music here*) that I can > come up with are: > > The Moody Blues: Some tracks on "Days of Future Passed" (late'67-early'68? > Can't remember when was that recorded?) and then on everything after that. > Played by Mike Pinder. You can definitely hear mellotron on Dawn Is A Feeling, Tuesday Afternoon, and Nights In White Satin on Days Of Future Passed (1967). The MB Prelude cd contains B-sides and other rare songs (recorded with Hayward and Lodge - no Denny Laine) prior to their release of Days Of Future Passed. The mellotron was first played on Love And Beauty which was recorded on 07.17.67. From then on, it was part of the band. Love And Beauty is an okay song. I like Cities, Simple Game, Gimme A Little Somethin', What Am I Doing Here and Late Lament better, and the rest on this cd I don't listen too much at all. > King Crimson: On "In the Court of the Crimson King" (mid-late'69). Played > by Robert Fripp. > > Genesis: I'm no Genesis connoisseur, but I know there was Mellotron on > some of their earliest recordings ('68-'69?). Played by Tony ? (Banks?). King Crimson's mellotron became Genesis' mellotron. Hackett used to sit and watch Fripp play his guitar in those early days, and if you listen carefully to some of Hackett's early guitarwork, Fripp's influence is clearly there. I don't know the details though about how they managed to obtain KC's mellotron? > Any others I've forgotten? > > Stuart Troutman Well, Space Oddity by David Bowie comes to mind, but that was in the 1970's I think. Okay, how about moog and/or mini-moog? Obviously, Walter Carlos. The Beatles used it and so did George Harrison on that first solo album by any Beatle, Electronic Sounds. The Turtles on You Showed Me, The Byrds on Moog Raga, The Who on Baba O'Riley, ELP, King Crimson. And Spanky And Our Gang used it in the 60's sometime too I might add... :^) -- rj pietkivith | "Where blizzards, blast the spirit of man, att!ihlpz!rjp1 | the frailest of beasts." -- Genesis, Pacidy [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Sun, 20 Oct 91 18:06:33 +1000 From: teh at latcs1 dot lat dot oz dot au Subject: Re: discipline #9 hi, This post has nothing to do with the last post. In fact I have a question, hope some of you can answer it for me. OK,on a related note (to KC or Robert Flipp) a question about Did Sylvian (since RF plays on hisTE album). Has anyone bought the new album yet?("Ember Glance") How is it? Thanks for your attention! richie.... [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1991 09:45:41 +0100 From: rutten at cwi dot nl Subject: Fripp playing with Hall&Oates and Toyah I just bought two albums featuring Fripp (and it was the only reason for me to buy them, for sure ... :) Darryl Hall and John Oates "Along the Red Ledge" (1978) where Fripp can be heard playing some Frippertronics typical of that period on the song "Don't blame it on love" --- I couldn't hear him on the rest of the album, and the inside cover gives no detail about that: anybody knows if he does more? Some other parts of the album sound a bit "Exposure"-ish, but maybe it's just an influence. Toyah (Willcox, not La Jackson) "Desire" (1990): I was surprised by this one: I thought that Fripp was just credited to co-write a song (which does not sound very Frippy anyway), but his sound, and that of the League of Crafty Guitarists can actually be heard on several of the songs (not on the cover of "Echo Beach", though :). But here, the cover says absolutely nothing about anything: anybody knows more? That's all for now ... Eric RUTTEN rutten at cwi dot nl [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Fri, 18 Oct 91 16:25:47 PDT From: hal at mariposa dot Corp dot Sun dot com (hal) Subject: some frippery for ya! Reading this newsletter had me thinking about Fripp the man. I bought IN THE WAKE OF POSEIDON when it was first released, simply because of the cover, and before I knew it I was hooked, writing reviews in my school and local papers and receiving a blank "why don't you write about someone we've heard of?". That was '72, and believe or not, he is immensely popular now in comparison. But it was a good question. To be honest, those first two albums didn't age very well--until you compared them with their peers. Perhaps the answer lies in the fate of Pete Sinfield. Apart from a treacly solo album that occasionally glinted in brilliance, and a few productions of groups like PFM, he seems to have gone back into the woodworks . . . always wondered if those lines "health-food faggot/ with bartered bride" were Fripp's nasty little send-off. Who knows, maybe Pete and Bernie Taupin have a nice little flat in S.F.'s Castro somewhere, and could care less about their better halves. I think I would like Pete in person. But Fripp. . . . Quite a character, Fripp. I imagine he had a somewhat different temperament in those days when he had long hair and glasses and looked like a certain drummer for the Police on Curved Air's MIDNIGHT WIRE album; I think it took the coming 80's character (goddess help us all) to bring out the real Fripp. Unlike that fake medievalry and associated hippery, the age of "me" and "excess" fit him like a glove. Met him once in Austin where he played some Frippertronics in a record store and signed autographs (it was raining that day so I didn't bring any of my prize albums for him to sign: the result was a large "BOO" written on a piece of paper which I still hold dear 8')). Prickly, prickly. But I must admit, upon hearing Eno recently gushing about having "created a new form of colour", at least Fripp doesn't come off so pretentious: a tad serious, of course, but inner direction can do that. Which is why he might be so difficult to work with: anyone who can write-off Greg Lake ("I discovered him scrubbing toilets in Victoria Station", sniff) and capture Bruford with mere ideas; who can take a little biker girl gone legit and socialite her; and who could do that one guitar solo in "Baby's on Fire" and make the entire song transcendent must be one royal pain to be near. On those early albums it is amazing how the sound rarely changed yet the cast of characters did; one of the reasons I suppose after all these years I still miss MacDonald and Giles is that they had a certain sweetness to gloss over Fripp's vinegar. True, he wouldn't have grown with them, and as much as I kicked and screamed and yelled (at first) at what he did on LIZARDS, which went to a mere murmur on ISLANDS, and then back to awe on LARKS TONGUES, it couldn't have happened with them, and so--so much the better. Easy to understand his retreat into his beloved abbey, what with all those toadies around him on the outside; he had to go deep into his own private hell to pull off the next sound. Yet I think he needed those toadies as others to despise; it took him out of himself, and I think even he was more comfortable there. So don't applaud the man; make a mockery of him. Crimson never became King by remaining the same sound, and at times nowadays I feel he may have fallen into that very trap. Tell him: and when the embers of his private fire explode upward into the heavens and fall back to earth with unworldly colours, then stare in awe. hal [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this group or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The views expressed in discipline are those of the individual authors only.