Words beginning with "Q" this time: quibblings, quixoticiticies and querulosities
Date: 16 Feb 97 04:56:40 EST
From: Discipline Global Mobile <73064 dot 1470 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: Words beginning with "Q" this time: quibblings, quixoticiticies and querulosities
Saturday 15th. February, 1997.
Regret, recantation, recalibration:
The middle of "Breathless" is 11 + 11 + 11 + 3 over 8.
Words beginning with "Q" this time: quibblings, quixoticiticies and
querulosities re: ET 345 ...
Date: 09 Feb 97 00:59:50 EST
From: Palmer <73670 dot 2065 at CompuServe dot COM>
Subject: Fripp's Aim
JRP: While in practice suffering comes because we do not have perfect
knowledge of how to achieve the aim most effectively, or because to affect
a change is also to break relationships, this does not make it necessarily
so that we _must_ suffer for our aims. To say "impossible" is to accept
inevitability, and to deny free will.
RF: If we accept that "it is impossible to achieve the aim without
suffering", we have the choice: are we prepared to suffer to achieve our
aim, or not? This is our free choice. Then, if we are, we move on to
discover that there are different kinds of suffering: some necessary, some
unnecessary, some optional.
Or so it seems to me.
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:31:54 -0500 (EST)
From: COSMICAC at aol dot com
Subject: All This Frippery
BT: ... Fripp's postings ... reveal that he has a great deal of respect for
his audience, and in an utterly impersonal manner, affection for our
enthusiasm as well. This says as much about us as it does about Fripp.
RF: Yes. Yes.
BT: ... and I hope that this puts to rest once and for all the thread
concerning Fripp's "tude" towards his audience.
RF: Er, maybe. See below.
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:19:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com
Subject: Metrical Structure of "Breathless"
B the ES: Before this argument over the imaginary time signature 3/3 goes
any farther, I'd like to point out that the whole discussion is rooted in a
RF: Too true. Please see regret, recantation and recalibration above.
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 00:25:11 +0000
From: Orn Orrason <"ossi at isholf dot is, ossi"@kerfi.hi.is>
Organization: Systems Engineering lab University of Iceland
Subject: Young persons guide to energy
OO: One word to Robert. Great you have CALMED DOWN...
RF: You don't know what I'm like excited.
Date: 07 Feb 97 18:47:51 -0500
From: Greg Bastug <GBastug at essexusa dot com>
Subject: How to Meet Fripp
GB: Over the past 15 years, I've had several encounters with Robert Fripp,
and he hasn't run from any of them...
RF: Perhaps I was hiding from you.
GB: If you invest wisely in such encounters, he will symbolize his
appreciation with an autograph.
RF: Or spit on your foot.
GB: (PS - See you soon, RF)
RF: Maybe. Or maybe not. Maybe, Or maybe not ...
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:31:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "Anton Swansorb" <swansorb at hotmail dot com>
Subject: A commentary on Robert Fripp's recent ET behaviour
AS: Dear Mr. Fripp,
At first I read your contributions to Elephant Talk with great
interest. You appeared to be attempting to engage in banter with your fans
in an intelligent manner, unlike the ill-conceived, juvenile ranting and
raving that was courtesy of fellow bandmate Adrian Belew.
RF: Most professionals would agree with you that Adrian's posting to ET was
"ill-conceived". The conventional wisdom is that artists should never
interract with "fans" on anything other than a superficial level: smile, be
nice, sign autographs: that is, act in accordance with conventional wants,
assumptions and expectations. The common wisdom continues that should the
artist respond / move into the unexpected, unwanted, or polemic (like, by
declining to sign an autograph and then to explain why) the "fan" is likely
to get pissed. The conventional wisdom limits artist response and
engagement to trivialities. Otherwise, trouble.
Adrian's response was outside the parameters that most artists
observe (I appreciate there are exceptions). I found it very brave of
Adrian, an exceptionally generous man and musician, to declare his feelings
clearly and directly to the newsletter. But Adrian's posting was
straightforward: it had no "side". And I don't agree with your assessment
of it as "ranting and raving".
AS: However, you've taken your "diatribes" and "dialogue" to an equally
puzzling level. You've started ruminating on the most minute and
insignificant of fan-Fripp interactions as if they're of mammoth
RF: What you refer to as "minute ... interactions" are, to me, clear
demonstrations and examples of a range of undeclared expectations,
assumptions, reactions and projections which I have met many times, in many
places, from many people, for many years. Often the minutiae of behaviour
is subtle. Because of my own interest in performance as a microcosm of
society, and how performance might have effect outside the performance
space, the "minute interactions" carry great significance. In the postings
to ET I've been addressing, inter alia, assumptions and expectations of
particular fan / artist interraction. To me, this is of "mammoth
importance". I hope the unspoken agenda may be declared and discussed.
But, there is no reason why this should be important to you. I am
surprised you might find it surprising that I attribute such value to it:
performance, and therefore the relationship between musician and audience
is a major part of my life and concerns.
AS: In fact, you're obviously spending an unbelievable and astonishing amount
of time reading ET and formulating responses.
RF: The quick answer is, yes.
Firstly, a large number of people are generous enough to have
expressed an interest in my work. This is the first time for six years, and
hence since ET has been online, that I have been able to make any
significant contribution or response to that interest.
Secondly, when I become engaged in an undertaking, it gets my best shot.
Thirdly, this is not a hobby for me, although I appreciate that for
any reader whose interest doesn't match my own degree of commitment (which
is unlikely) my commentaries may be heavy weather.
AS: But you're now demonstrating some fairly toothy behaviour yourself.
And that behaviour seems to depict a fundamental unwillingness to
acknowledge basic human tendencies and interaction models.
RF: Surely the reverse. If you have a sufficient interest to go back
through my posts, you'll see me repeatedly addressing and acknowledging
"basic human tendencies and interaction models" between fan / enthusiast /
artist. And I don't believe anyone is likely to work in groups for 35 years
and 10 months (RF the Pedant) without a willingness, and interest, in
acknowledging and exploring people's "tendencies and interactions".
AS: You don't seem particularly interested in generating goodwill amongst
your fans ...
RF: Goodwill is always involved. You seem to be referring to Robert's lack
of concern for personal popularity.
AS: ... unless it's something which directly benefits you (e.g. the
upcoming listening/ purchasing session in Britain).
RF: The Playback session is likely to cost RF / DGM L7,500. Sales at that
event will benefit members of Crimso 69 and DGM. I am a relatively small
part of both.
However, I / we are happy to take your money.
AS: I guess never once in your life have you bothered someone in a moment
that was inappropriate. That's pretty damn impressive Mr. Fripp if it's
true. High standards indeed.
RF: Actually, twice. Once in 1971, in Greenwich Village. Once in 1993, at
Heathrow Terminal Three.
The first occasion was inappropriate, and I learnt from it. (Guitar
Craft aphorism: "There is no mistake save one: the failure to learn from a
mistake"). And the second occasion was only a little - bit -
AS: The overzealous behaviour some of your fans have displayed is a perfect
example (of childlike behaviour). It's truly nothing to get hyper,
concerned or over-analytical about.
RF: And some of it is.
Your comment suggests to me that you have very little idea of the
degrees to which "overzealous behaviour" from fans might become or can
reach; to make a judgement such as this you have to have the information,
better still the experience, of someone who has been in the frontline for
When fandom moves into obsession, and obsession moves into madness,
and madness expresses itself in stalking and pursuit, concern is a
reasonable response. Actually, a calm response. Those who have been the
subject of this rarely discuss it in public. (Once again, this is
professional conventional wisdom).
AS: So, relax.
RF: My bio-feedback card says I am relaxed.
AS: Consider offering a smile instead of a grimace.
RF: You mean, you haven't seen me smiling?
AS: Consider choosing to calmly explain your frame of mind to the offending
person rather than act offended and disgusted.
RF: In Berlin, in 1980 with The League of Gentlemen, I stood and calmly
explained to a burly, black leather-coated, bearded and tattooed gentleman
for ten minutes why I was declining to sign his various collectibles. His
own frame of mind did not appear to be enhanced by the calm explanation of
my own differing viewpoint: actually, the reverse. And then he tore up his
many collectibles, one by one, and threw the pieces to the floor.
I didn't look on him as an "offending party". I looked on him as an
autograph collector. He wanted me to sign his collection of memorabilia and
I declined, with an explanation which he appeared to find unconvincing.
I respond, and have responded, in several hundred (or more)
meetings with fans, enthusiasts and audience over a period of 27 years on
four continents. For many years my general policy was to stand, and
explain calmly, reasonably, and sometimes at great length, why I felt
unable to do what the fan wanted / demanded of me. The above example is
only one of many. My own experience is that a calm and reasonable
presentation of why I was not going to do what the fan wanted me to do
rarely appears to persuade, or satisfy, the fan whose request is being
declined concurrent with the explanation.
Now, after several hundred personal encounters and dozens of
explanations, or not, my general policy is to no longer stand and explain
myself. I am available at the right time, in the right place to the right
person / s. And sometimes the "wrong" person / s at the right time and
place. Currently, the debate has moved to a larger forum.
As a footnote, it is possible to explain, calmly and reasonably, an
alternative viewpoint to an enthusiast, or a connoisseur. But very, very
difficult to a fan who knows what they want, and has even parted with their
AS: But you'll only enhance your frame of mind and that of the offending
party if you take that path.
RF: I find Anton's advice unwarranted, presumptious and arrogant.
My experience, having taken the path suggested by Anton several
dozen times during hundreds of meetings, leads me to a contrary
viewpoint. But I can't speak for the other parties.
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:22:48 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven Sullivan <sullivan at gwis2 dot circ dot gwu dot edu>
Subject: an official boot I'd like to see
SS: I'd like to second the call for the famous Concertgebouw concert to be
released as an official 'bootleg, with the tracks from S&BB intact. I've
always thought the version of Talking Drum/LTiAII here were the among the
RF: We're planning a DGM release of the BBC Radio broadcast of this show.
(This is the source for the widespread bootlegs). There are complexities to
this: I don't control the material taken from this show which was used on
the "Starless And Bible Black" album, which was part of the EG dispute.
Our plans are to release the BBC version of the show as "The
Nightwatch", hoplefully in September 1997.
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:35:59 +0100 (MET)
From: Arato Andras <jzb3101 at stud dot u-szeged dot hu>
Subject: Re: Mr Kozak's Fripp
AA: Dear ETers! IN ET number 343 Mr Kozak wrote to RF: SHUT UP AND PLAY
RF: Good advice, and thank you. Tomorrow I fly to Nashville to write new
material for KC with Adrian and Trey.
AA: And just questions. Could anyone tell me how a university student in
Eastern Europe can buy the KC CD-s (official or any other)? I myself borrow
them and get it on tape (don't even have the money for a CDplayer). What do
you think about that Mr Fripp?
RF: We operate a mail order service for the complete catalogue from DGM
here in the UK, but it is only for CDs.
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:01:50 -0500
From: alan s cohen <i000371 at disch3 dot disc dot dla dot mil>
ASC: ... I had an experience a couple of years ago while on vacation in
Prince Edward Island (incredible place) which helped me understand the
problem of trying to capture the moment. I was hiking somewhere trying to
get a picture of practically everything (It's that kind of place-
everything begs for a picture). So after a while of walking and stopping
to take pictures, I realized that in an effort to capture the island on
film, I wasn't experiencing being there at that moment. Capturing the
memory was becoming more important than experiencing the moment. So I just
sat and experienced being there for a while.
RF: Well done. This strikes me as clear, precise, accurate.
ASC: And then took some more pictures. Is this contradictory?
RF: Yes and no.
From: Charles Jowett <jowett_charles at waters dot com>
Subject: Bootlegs and Meeting Mr. Fripp
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:53:36 -0500
CJ: Some thoughts on boot legging...
Many years ago a friend and I smuggled a tape recorder into a King Crimson
concert. The act of recording the concert severely disrupted my
appreciation of the event. I became more involved with worrying about the
tape than listening to the music (How are the levels? I wish that guy
would shut up, he's ruining my tape. Has my tape recorder been spotted by
that nasty looking roadie? I better not cheer, it'll come out on the
tape.) In short, I never became caught up in the moment. I remained
detached from the music and even the most brilliant performance would have
been lost on me.
RF: Well done, again.
Subject: Fripp books?
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 97 15:41:39 -0500
From: Dave Anastasi <daanasta at student dot berklee dot edu>
DA: To Mr. Robert Fripp & Fellow ETers:
I myself am a musician and composer at Berklee College of Music, and have
always been very interested in reading about Robert's views regarding
performance, audiences, and music listening and appreciation. I also see
myself in his views. Has he ever written any books that I could get my
RF: No. But should it be of interest, two pieces follow which were pinned
to the notice board at the recent Guitar Craft course in Argentina. Each
speaks to a different part of us. They are designed to be presented under
specific conditions which, obviously, don't apply here. My apologies if
they don't speak to any of the parts of any reader...
The musician acquires discipline in order to operate reliably and
efficiently in the world. Discipline confers the capacity to be effectual
We begin by practising, and in time this becomes a practice. A
practice is the external form of any discipline, and may be considered as a
body of exercises, techniques and principles of working which make
recognisable the identity of any particular practice. The exercises and
techniques are specific to the particular practice, the principles
underlying them are common to all.
The musician has three disciplines: of the head, the heart and the
hands. The exercises and techniques of the practice therefore address the
cognitive, affective and motor skills of the student. The aim is to acquire
a balanced functioning of all three. The three disciplines are therefore
actually one discipline.
The acquisition of this discipline is impossible without our
capacity to experience, and to experience our experiencing. The functions
of thinking, feeling and organic sensation are each seats of insight, or
perceptual "organs", into different kinds of experience. The development of
our experiencing, our perceptual abilities, through these three functions
is the beginning of any practice.
When a school of craft undertakes an action or undertaking in the
world, it develops a body of practices to train those who wish to become
part of that action. Traditionally, these are called apprentices. A
practice addresses the "what" and "how" of what we do. The "why" is
determined by the particular craft of which the practice is a part.
The practice is the visible side of craft and is generally referred
to as technique. In a school of music, it prepares the apprentice musician
for performance. The greater the technique, the less it is apparent.
The apprentice musician plays music. When music plays the musician,
the invisible side of the craft has presented itself. Then, the apprentice
sees directly for themself what is actually and really involved. A
performance of music becomes the act of music, in which process and content
A school of craft aims to create conditions under which this
experience becomes available to its apprentices. At this point, the concern
for technique per se is placed in perspective.
Expectation closes our ears to what is happening in the moment.
Listening is how we eat music.
Hearing is how we digest it.
Hearing transforms sound into music.
Listening is a craft.
Hearing is an art.
Listening changes the performance to which we are listening.
Music changes when people hear it.
What we hear is the quality of our listening.
Our understanding changes what is is that we understand.
Silence is the field of creative musical intelligence which dwells in the space
between the notes, and holds them in place.
Silence is a bridge between worlds.
The science is in knowing, the art is in perceiving.
The future is what the present can bear.
The way we describe our world shows how we think of our world.
How we think of our world governs how we interpret our world.
How we interpret our world directs how we participate in it.
How we participate in the world shapes the world.
The presence of absence is an entry into loss.
Things are not as bad as they seem.
They are worse than that.
They are also better than that.
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 04:08:51 -0700
From: "David J. Wade" <subdub at primenet dot com>
Its astounding that we are able to have dialog with Mr. Fripp. I know Im in
late but Ill keep em short :
..i) What is the nature of the relationship between the audience /
enthusiast/ fan and the musician?
A: It is the sharing of something not really of man. A shared launguage
never spoken, though instantaniously realized.
ii) What are the rights of the audience / enthusiast / fan? Tune in ?
Or, Tune out! these are your choices.
iii) What are the responsibilities and obligations of the
audience / enthusiast / fan?
Im a musician, and dont resond well to obligations , or responsibilities
for that matter.
iv) What do you personally, as an
audient / enthusiast / fan expect of your artists?
I expect the artists that I have respect for, to give prop to what they've
done in the past , and then show me a glimpse of where it might go
tomorrow....... Just me though.
v) What do you personally, as a KC-RF audient / enthusiast / fan
expect of Robert Fripp?
Its a sort of hypnosis.